BitMarket.Eu has closed down

[mralbi]

well, immediate in the sense of "immediate when the quetionnaire is over AND the investment has been done". Lets actually see how many 30% requests we have and if we could keep this with a bitcoin price of 25 USD....

[1714151016]

1714151016

[1714151016]

1714151016

[1714151016]

1714151016

[mentore]

if the demands are many, and you can not pay them all? what happens?

[mralbi]

lets wait for the results and then we see what we can make possible with the investment capital.. but whe 80% would chose the 30% option it is impossible to fulfil, the main goal is to avoid liquidation so the website can  be reopened.

[mentore]

ultimately, what would be the best option, to get back, the largest number of BTC ?

[mralbi]

This would be "invest" option where you put in 300.000 additional Euros ;-)


just kidding, considering how messed up the situation is, i still would recommend the "cooperate" option

[bitdragon]

i am quite sure the admin messed around with other people's bitcions for quite a while without telling anyone, even after they were already lost and I am also sure that it was not a "single" transaction from his wallet to bitcoinia or so.

But I would be quite sure in the fact that the coins are simply gone and no matter what kind of evidence and criminal investigation we will demand it will not bring any coins back, so my proposal is to "force" him to give up the site and lets start a new project from scratch where he will be "forced" to clean up the mess and implement the features we want to see. I think even after all mess he created he is willing to help cleaning up and we should use this offer

Well done on being quite sure.
How about we become absolutely clear on this and actually go forward with the plan and intention of making things right, admit to mistakes and show clearly what happened, or like you said "I think even after all mess he created he is willing to help cleaning up and we should use this offer"

I just don't get it how you can post anything to the tune of "i would be quite sure .... that the coins are simply gone" yet again which is very close to the tune of some other guy. How many times are you going to repeat that and when you find that number, can we just bring it down to 0?

The show needs to stop now and me too recommend the "cooperate" as in cooperation option.

[mralbi]

sorry, only the admin could bring more clarification on this, lets see if he can help with this to get back more "trust" (if thats possible ;-))

[GsR]

ultimately, what would be the best option, to get back, the largest number of BTC ?

I think that in this situation the best option is to invest in the site and take the ownership in order to improve it.
The more we are the easier it will be.
I've 101,975 frozen bitcoins and I've choseen this option

I'm also interested in the opinion of the forum on how to try to improve the site and make it profitable quickly.
Any idea ?

[xyz]

ultimately, what would be the best option, to get back, the largest number of BTC ?

I think that in this situation the best option is to invest in the site and take the ownership in order to improve it.
The more we are the easier it will be.
I've 101,975 frozen bitcoins and I've choseen this option

I'm also interested in the opinion of the forum on how to try to improve the site and make it profitable quickly.
Any idea ?

That’s my intention too.
As I bought my bitcoins and stored them at bitcoinmarket I knew this is a kind of “playing money”. We all could have lost all Euros or Dollars for what we bought the bitcoins – nobody knows, what a bitcoins is worth tomorrow!!! It can be 1000$ or 0$.

So, I think my “old” bitcoins are now worth 0$. But we all have the chance to see a phoenix rising – when it is possible to restart the site again! It was a good site till the owner got crazy!!!! And if I see what @mralbi is writing I hope it will be still a better one in the future – IF we all (or most of us) are willing to help!

[manfred]

As crazy as it might sound i have over 110 bitcoins on “Hold” and  i’m sort of not to concerned about it. If the new side manages to reopen and gets going it has huge potential. It should be one of the most trusted exchanges as many people are involved and promoting it to grow faster. New features being implemented  it should work out al right in the long term. Right now if anyone asks me which bit coin exchange i would recommend i could not give a positive response (size is not an argument), if the side reopens with lots of new responsible owners it is a clear choice.
 “M4v3R” has let the side go lately as he was to busy gambling my coins away or shuffling them around to run the ponzi scheme, until the wheel’s fell off.
Question is, why did “Mahkul” leave (post number 445, page 23)  as it was his side to start with (post 1). Did he see it coming? Is he still involved, or was that really the beginning of this mess as “M4v3R” could roam free from then on?  The other thing, this threat started april 2011, so it has some history changing owners!
I say LET’S  “BitMarket.Eu -  change ownership (in a way)”.

[tacoexperience]

ultimately, what would be the best option, to get back, the largest number of BTC ?

I think that in this situation the best option is to invest in the site and take the ownership in order to improve it.
The more we are the easier it will be.
I've 101,975 frozen bitcoins and I've choseen this option

I'm also interested in the opinion of the forum on how to try to improve the site and make it profitable quickly.
Any idea ?

Dude.. do you mean you have 101,975 bitcoins, as being over a hundred thousand, AUD2.6m?? Or 101.975 as one hundred coins.. I sort of lost my breath a little there..

@manfred: very good post.. can't wait to hear the answer to that..

In other news.. have any of you noticed that M4v3R has been quite absent this past few days.. there were a lot of questions/accusations/requests/ideas this past few days, and he hasn't comment on any of it..

[mralbi]

indeed absence is not a good sign, the questionnaire expires tomorrow and i also want to see the results asap to be able to discuss the next steps and start the work like convincing "unsure" persons with a good plan, we dont have any time to lose

[manfred]

If “M4v3R” is not forthcoming, responding to the posts we will have to start standing on “Mahkuls” fingers. He may has become a victim himself, or he sold his coins before the side closed down, who knows.
Still like to see the legal handover info. If his 'friend’ indeed lost him thousands of coins i say he cant be to happy about it and provide some inside info. He will have to do so one way or another.
Here is his active ebay account. http://myworld.ebay.co.uk/mahkul

[manfred]

Here is "m4v3r" twiter acount
https://twitter.com/m4v3r

[mralbi]

i just got a reply with the updated questionnaire figures. I think makhul is the one who lost the most coins

[GsR]

ultimately, what would be the best option, to get back, the largest number of BTC ?

I think that in this situation the best option is to invest in the site and take the ownership in order to improve it.
The more we are the easier it will be.
I've 101,975 frozen bitcoins and I've choseen this option

I'm also interested in the opinion of the forum on how to try to improve the site and make it profitable quickly.
Any idea ?

Dude.. do you mean you have 101,975 bitcoins, as being over a hundred thousand, AUD2.6m?? Or 101.975 as one hundred coins.. I sort of lost my breath a little there..

@manfred: very good post.. can't wait to hear the answer to that..

In other news.. have any of you noticed that M4v3R has been quite absent this past few days.. there were a lot of questions/accusations/requests/ideas this past few days, and he hasn't comment on any of it..

I'm losing "only" one hundred coins ... as in Europe we mainly use  comma as a decimal separator ....
  OPS NO as I said I'm starting to invest one hundred bitcoins ... (I'm traying to be positive in this situation) and maybe I can add some other fresh money depending on the result of the questionnaire

[BrainGame]

First I want to state clearly that this post is not meant for flaming but should give some more considerations about what's happening to bitmarket.eu. The deadline for the survey is comming close and I have to say: there's no real option to choose from.

What happened to me:
In early November 2012 someone bought my last bitcoins I had sold on bitmarket.eu. All seemed ok until the buyer didn't send money. Also to mails came no reaction and I thought of the buyer beeing a scammer. Finally one month after this the "deal" was cancelled on my behalf.

In December popped up a wonderful message from the owner of the website, stating something like "Dear users of bitmarket.eu, by chance I took all your bitcoins you trusted in my guidance, gambled a little bit with them and lost all. But don't worry, I'm still a very honest man and have a pure heart. Btw all the bitcoins are lost. I'm so sorry about your loss, but that's the way it is."

After reading this news a thought appeared in my mind. What if my buyer knew already, that he would not be able to transfer bitcoins out from his account and decided instead to not send money? So he saved money and I'm the one losing bitcoins. Actually this is only a guess, but rumors might have been around earlier and he might have had a glimpse on them. So his decission was wise and I claimed him a scammer undeserved.

So, what can I say to the "restoration plan"? Someone did his maths and posted the results here. With 0.4% fee and a turn-over of bitcoins like bitmarket.eu had last year it would take some hundreds or thousand years to regain that much bitcoins which were lost. So at best every user would wait some years to get full repayment, at worst the bitcoins have gone byebye forever. One or two investors offered help which is from my side very appreciated. But on second thought the investors spend their money on "a dead horse" so to speak, because if you take a look at the "bitcoins currently for sale"-chart you'll easily see that the amount of bitcoins sold dropped extremly compared to last year's sales. As I can 100% understand - noone trusts this website and it's owner anymore.

The options one by one
>I am willing to accept the current restoration plan<
The investors money will be evenly distributed amongst the users and every month will be some more payout IF there are any profits from the revived website. The money of the investors is to this day far less than would be needed to reimburse all users in a sufficient way. I guess the money would only cover 10% at best. The other 90% will come like 0,01% every year, so we're ready in 9000 years. I don't have that much time and I'm not willing to get back only 10% at all.

>I don't want to cooperate<
Liquidation plan blabla, 6% restored, rest lost forever. When I'm not willing to get only 10% back, I'm surely not willing to get even less than this.

>I want to join BitMarket.eu investors<
Sounds nice, invest some money to be part of bitmarket.eu. But wait! What's this? My money was stolen already, so how can I just say "ok, keep it and do as nothing had happened"? Even if there's written lifetime participation I'm not really impressed. There's no guarantee that this lifetime participation will endure more than some years and in the end when there's still no profit all my stolen bitcoins AND my invested money is lost. I don't want to constrain someone to not invest money as everybody can do with his money whatever he likes to. But I would advice at least a second thought, better a third one also if you're willing to invest money in someones busines who scammed you earlier. And if you really think about it, you need a death-proof businesplan how to invest, how much time you need and how much work you have to put in this project. If you don't have a businesplan like I outlined very roughly you can't be a serious businesman.

>I understand the plan but need Bitcoins quickly<
30% repaid at once, but the remaining 70% will be never paid back and cannot be demanded. This is not an option, because if I sign here I never have any claims under public law anymore. I forfeit all my bitcoins for the lousy payout of 30%.

>I want to donate my on hold balance to BitMarket.eu<
Nice, my money was taken away and I can confirm this here. Keep it, doesn't matter, all ok. The best option I've ever read.

>I will decide later/ I have another idea<
Decide later will not bring us users to a suitable end and so I think I have another option which wasn't discussed earlier. The owner of the website, namely Maver, who also took the bitcoins from the users for his own purpose (imagine he had earned let's say one million dollars with OUR bitcoins, ask youself just one question: would he have paid out the users with his profit or would he just have kept all for himself? I think not that anyone of us had ever seen a share of his earnings to be honest) can go to a bank in his country and apply for a loan. Any bank will gladly and with pleasure give money to someone and charge a standard interest rate in return. The loan he can use for paying his debts to all bitmarket users at once. Ok, maybe this sounds like I'm an inhuman monster or an asshole or something else, but I'm only thinking what would be best for all the users. What is better? 2000 people getting scammed and waiting for their bitcoins/money forever? Or one guy who already gambled other peoples money has to pay back a loan to a bank? He might pay ten years or twenty, but actually I don't care. We don't know each other in person, but did take my money. So why should I care what happens to him afterwards? Hardly spoken! If you take something from someone, it's called stealing where I come from. If you steal a lot from many different people it's either called politics or large-scale fraud. Maver can be lucky to "only" repay a debt to a bank in this solution. The other option would be jail. Fraud in this area (~150.000 Euro and more) will be punished with at least one year, but normally more, up to five years. To be sure what I'm writing here in this forum I already contacted my lawyer on this issue. My lawyer also gave me the advice to NOT invest any money to help bitmarket.eu, because IF I would invest money, I would be a part of the company by law. This means in short - if someone goes the long way over lawyers and judges I would be liable for payment of the debts. Easy wordings: Someone wins the process agains bitmarket.eu and Maver and all his investors will have to pay money in equal shares to the guy who won the process. And Maver and the investors would have to pay all fees, salaries and formalities. Investing means entering the boat. After investment you're sitting in the same boat and everybody inherits the open debts. It could be that someone invested out of an unfinished thought and suddenly stands against a bill of let's say 30.000 Euros or more. I don't want honest people to be mixed up with gangsters, so please think about what I said when you start investing in bitmarket.eu.

Finally I just want to state one more thing: The bitcoins have gone, so the owner of the site has to repay the bitcoins' worth with a fixed rate. He will not come from this situation without harm. When he decides to go the way to his bank and repay all users at once, then and only then he can start gaining reputation and honor again. If he's really trustworthy after repaying all users on his own cost people will show appreciation and help him out of the mess, me included. Respect will come slowly and it might be that he will have a hard debt to pay back his bank, but he surely will not be alone then. I don't see a point in giving him bitcoins and/or money beforehand though.

As I said I was talking to a lawyer already and if other people would be interested I'm willing to go the judicial way with them (class-action lawsuit). But hopefully this will not happen and another way without lawyers and judges will be found.   


   

[mralbi]

Thanks BrainGame, very good post i can support basically all you said.

The Coins are gone no matter which option someone choses, thats for sure. Also the "newly" invested money would by far not be enough to make any significant payouts.

But anyway, when we have a chance to implement a bigger peer2peer market also for other products than bitcoins that has already a quite big user basis and everything is separated from the old ownership so we can win the trust back, it might be possible to pay back funds in a slightly faster rate than 100.000 years, lets say 100 years...

[BrainGame]

I also like to see this restart of bitmarket.eu as a chance to a) win the community back and b) get the users money back step by step, but of course as fast as possible. What I actually don't want, even if it might have sounded from my post before, is someone going to jail. Maver is surely a clever man and did a lot of programming / server maintainence and implementing new features demanded by us, so he on this side doesn't deserve the "scammer" tag. On the other side he did take monetary values which he didn't own and which were trusted to him. What is even with one blind eye, criminal. So now he's still a normal man with (hopefully) no entries in his certificate of conduct at the police, but as soon someone gets the lawyers moving he surely will be judged. The entry will be in his papers for lifetime, so he is marked as a bad guy for his whole life. No one can really be interested in making another persons life hell or play god in this matter. As I stated I don't know him, so I also don't know if he has a family, kids whatever. Any judicial meddling would have a heavy impact on himself and the people around him.

I don't know if many users comming back to bitmarket after the events happening, also no one can say how long the site will work out for everyone. Mr Albi, if you're sure about your work - go on please. The site was very usefull to a lot of people and will be more usefull still with more features. But the users need a sign that they've not lost everything. A debt to a bank of 200.000 or 300.000 Euro is insane to repay, it happens that someone's children are called to duty for their parents debts. But say 1/3 of all the needed money should come from Maver, some money from the investors if they wish and in the end all users will be repaid with say 40%/50% in the first month and the remains step by step. This is a much better deal for everyone than now 10% and 90% lost. So the users see they're not forgotten and there IS a businesplan to resolve over one or two years. And Maver sees he's also not forgotten and can receive help when he shows some risky initiative.

[GsR]

I also like to see this restart of bitmarket.eu as a chance to a) win the community back and b) get the users money back step by step, but of course as fast as possible. What I actually don't want, even if it might have sounded from my post before, is someone going to jail. Maver is surely a clever man and did a lot of programming / server maintainence and implementing new features demanded by us, so he on this side doesn't deserve the "scammer" tag. On the other side he did take monetary values which he didn't own and which were trusted to him. What is even with one blind eye, criminal. So now he's still a normal man with (hopefully) no entries in his certificate of conduct at the police, but as soon someone gets the lawyers moving he surely will be judged. The entry will be in his papers for lifetime, so he is marked as a bad guy for his whole life. No one can really be interested in making another persons life hell or play god in this matter. As I stated I don't know him, so I also don't know if he has a family, kids whatever. Any judicial meddling would have a heavy impact on himself and the people around him.

I don't know if many users comming back to bitmarket after the events happening, also no one can say how long the site will work out for everyone. Mr Albi, if you're sure about your work - go on please. The site was very usefull to a lot of people and will be more usefull still with more features. But the users need a sign that they've not lost everything. A debt to a bank of 200.000 or 300.000 Euro is insane to repay, it happens that someone's children are called to duty for their parents debts. But say 1/3 of all the needed money should come from Maver, some money from the investors if they wish and in the end all users will be repaid with say 40%/50% in the first month and the remains step by step. This is a much better deal for everyone than now 10% and 90% lost. So the users see they're not forgotten and there IS a businesplan to resolve over one or two years. And Maver sees he's also not forgotten and can receive help when he shows some risky initiative.

I think that a business plan can be done with a longer dead line of about 5 years and with the contribution of the comunity that it is essential at this point. Also it must be clear that any business plan has some possibility to fail ...