The same thing happened to me too. I login my account today and found I lost 42.9$ in my account, and I have no idea about the latest two trade in my trade history. I mean even my account is week, the hacker shouldn't know my username. Someone in the office must be leaking user's information.
How can you log into your MtGox account? I thought is is still closed? |
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by the way, is this trustable or a scam???
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You know that I appreciate your posts a lot.
In this case, though, I disagree:
We are not talking private things, but business. In business, "customer is king". If you don't satisfy your customers on a going basis as businessman, you will not get far.
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Thanks for the diligent perspective. Very helpful+++
Still, it seems like MtGox can do almost anything with this unclarity...
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As suspected before, this is another terrible and confusing information communication.
I would not be surprised if it took at least 3-5 days more or even weeks until MtGox reopens.
I am happy to be proven otherwise, but it seems they communicate like to airplane passengers: Just 10min delay. Then 10min later: Just another 20 min delay, then ...
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S3052, LOL how much ad spot on CNBC would cost me? I really would want some ads running there for my mining contracts today  |
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Gavin, and EFF, this is the best solution in my p.o.v.
Wonderful and thanks.
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Nice! Thanks Mt. Gox, your security lapses keep providing Bitcoin loads of publicity. All the day traders (and others) around the world do know about bitcoin now. They will see the forest behind the trees, unlike all the nervous noobs on this forum. Expect huge money flowing into bitcoin in coming weeks. P.S. Thanks Gavin for doing great PR job. P.P.S. weusecoins video finally got it's mainstream TV spot (even if just outtakes), congratulations.
That is a great one on CNBC. WOW |
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Can you make sure you either stick top this (delayed) new timing or if you do not have confidence, communicate a final timing?
It is the worst for all people to not stick to an initially communicated timing.
make sure you do not mislead people yet again.
Once you reopen, make sure that you are prepared with best security.
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I have reset the market sentiment poll.
Up?
Same as now?
Down?
I don't know?
click on the poll above.
Please VOTE
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Yes, it's legitimate. If the exchange was compromised, as it was, then trading after that was revealed was "fruit of the poisoned tree."
the exchange as an exchange was not compromised. at most, mt. gox as a broker, or an individual user account, was compromised (putting aside the leak of information, which hasn't been cited as a reason for a 'rollback'). the analogies to the 'flash crash' in the us stock markets is inapposite. indeed, there is no 'fruit of the poisoned tree' theory in currency or commodity exchange. if i innocently sell you something of value for currency that you've stolen, i cannot generally reverse the transaction, even in legal systems in which that would not be true for stolen consumer goods (versus stolen currency). |
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You tell us, you're the expert on this kinda stuff right?
I feel this is gonna seriously jack up the willingness to accept bitcoin now.
--> zdmas I am an expert in trading and market analysis, but not on exchange regulations. |
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Yes, it's legitimate to rollback the trades. If something along these lines happened on a major public exchange, they'd strike all of the affected trades there as well. Think 2010 NYSE flash crash.
Are you certain this happened? It is not my understanding that the May 2010 flash crash transactions got reversedProbably nothing will be done for other exchanges. In the future they'd all probably benefit from an agreement to be able to suspend trading together in extreme circumstances or at least agree on standardized levels of circuit breakers, but it's possible the players might not see the long term benefits of such a strategy.
To act like a professional market, they should only open after a complete security review and at a pre-announced time. Customers should have 12-24 hours advance notice before trading begins again if they want to have any hope of an orderly restart. They should also make sure that people can get into their accounts, perform their password resets, move money in or out at their preference and book any new orders they want before trading begins.
They absolutely need to cancel all standing orders.
+1 this makes a lot of sense.
And on top, if this takes long, people having funds on MtGox should be able to withdraw them (BTC and USD) and trade them on other exchanges if they want. |
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Orders should not be reversed. That's just MtGox trying to cover his rear. What SHOULD happen is all trades should be processed as normal, and MtGox should refund the guy who was hacked. It was MtGox's fault, so they need to step up and fix it. Fixing it does not mean reversing all trades. Fixing it means restoring what was stolen due to their incompetence.
This is what typically also happens on other exchanges, correct. |
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Agree that it is difficult...
and there is one important overall question:
Is the fact that the BTC market was unregulated equaling that the exchange owner can just do anything?
I guess many people buying bitcoins at MtGox were - rightly or wrongly - assuming that standard exchange practices were followed. Shouldn't now standard exchange principles apply?
The fact that bitcoin is unregulated does not automatically mean that an owner can just ignore standard existing practices of exchanges (and that's what it is).
Does someone have some standard knowledge of how normal exchanges would need to treat the issue that happend today on bitcoins?
Including placing bid / asks order again where they were or not?
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I do not know if this is real or fake. However, this is an direct download link that I hosted. Please comment... http://bit.ly/kE3Q4D[Edit: Holy shit, this is real. I found my email & password in the CSV. Shit just got real...]
This is completely against every privacy consideration that this file is openly distributed. |
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Having followed and covered the market since Oct 2010, I am concerned about all people investing / trading / loving bitcoins after what happened today.
There are a couple of questions:
1) Is it legitimate to rollback trades or should the exchange cover the risks?
2) What happens to people trading on the other exchanges who where negatively/positively affected by what happened at MtGox?
3) How / when should the market reopen?
Should orders of users on MtGox be put back where they were before the crash? or is it fairer to ask them whether they want or not?
... many more questions...
It would be great to have some people experienced in exchanges helping to get an unbiased assessment quickly - to protect all users, and to at least have a chance to re-establish some trust on bitcoins.
I am sad, because this was predictable and many including me have warned that we need better, more secure exchanges.
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Mark Karpeles
posted this on Jun-20 04:07
The bitcoin will be back to around 17.5$/BTC after we rollback all trades that have happened after the huge Bitcoin sale that happened on June 20th near 3:00am (JST).
And by the way, MtGox can and should not control the exchange rate. If it is legitimate to rollback the trades (legal guys where are you?), the exchange rate will be determined by the bid and ask orders at the time of the reopen. Noone can predict where this will be.
Those who are affected need to be asked first, whether they want to place again their bid orders where they have had it. |
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I am becoming more and more convinced this was a deliberate attack on the bitcoin currency (by some competitor like PayPal or a hostile government) and not a theft or sellout. Both of those theories (theft and sellout) are ridiculous because it would be so stupid to sell like that and get pocket change in comparison to real BTC value.
And if this was an attack on bitcoin's reputation, it was completely succesfull (even if that's not obvious to you) ! It doesn't matter the value came back up, the point is with all the bad press bitcoin has gotten lately (the first big value fall, then the first big theft, and now a 200 times value fall and rise in minutes !) no one serious (I mean real Wallstreet investors, not teen Satoshi-cultists) is going to invest in this for many years...
Bitcoin is looking more and more fishy and uncertain to the general population and that is very bad for the market...
Exactly, this nightmare is just starting.
What can people with MtGox accounts do in the next hours before it is reoponed while the exchange rate sinks in the other exchanges (i.e. tradehill is at 10 $). I feel with all people owning bitcoins. This is a disaster. |
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So everyone who got cheap bitcoins is basically screwed now!
Lol
Instead they should secure their site already and let it be - I mean what idiot keeps 500.000 BTC in their account at mount gox ? I doubt this was a hack - it obviously was a huge sell-off and everyone who profited from that gets punished now. Thank you!!! (For weeks I had an order buying at 0.01 BTC for a dollar - should a crash happen...now that finally I got a few coins cheap Mt Gox takes it away!)
This is a nightmare for bitcoins as a whole, since it destroys trust.
I would not be surprised to see people litigating the exchange because of this issue and I can understand both sides. Those who lost a potential gain with their low buy orders and those owning BTCs who are happy that prices could go back up. What a mess.
Again, we need SECURE and PROPERLY MANAGED exchanges as number 1 priority. |
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