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1961  Economy / Goods / Re: Solvent Trap Adapter - Recycle Cleaning Fluids - NOT a Silencer - NOT a Gun on: November 15, 2012, 01:56:32 AM
I'm not terribly knowledgeable about guns, and my curiosity has gotten the better of me. What's the purpose of an adapter like this?

It's a cleaning tool, to allow you to capture once used cleaning solvent.
1962  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Technical Support / Re: Cancel Invalid Raw Transaction on: November 15, 2012, 01:26:01 AM
Thanks.  I'll check out pywallet and hope to avoid situations like these.

(It looks like it's also possible to create stuck coins with a tx that accidentally tries to double spend an input.)

Ah, yeah.  That's one of those 'invalid' conditions I was talking about.  What were you doing, coding the transaction by hand?
1963  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: first time buyer on: November 15, 2012, 01:24:45 AM
Got any tips for making sure everything is secure ? and staying out of prying eyes e.g should i use the tor browser when going on block chain or is my normal ip address okay to be using when going on there ? 


That depends upon how paranoid you are.  How paranoid you should be depends upon what you might plan on doing with these funds.  If you have the skills and inclination to use Tor for your bitcoin activities, you're instincts are probably right.
1964  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Technical Support / Re: Cancel Invalid Raw Transaction on: November 15, 2012, 01:22:04 AM
If it was a valid transaction, then it will be relayed regardless of how much of a transaction fee you provided for it.  If it's invalid, you would have had to use some low level command tools to create it, because your client wouldn't do it.

Even if you sent it without any fee whatever, it will eventually make it into a block.

Time-locked (and thus retractable) transactions are part of the scripted transaction set, but are not presently honored by the network.  Those will come someday.
1965  Other / Off-topic / Re: What does this mean? on: November 15, 2012, 01:13:53 AM
--- or do you not understand what you are looking at?

It's an encrypted text message, encrypted by the Pretty Good Privacy (PGP) algorithim.
1966  Other / Off-topic / Re: What does this mean? on: November 15, 2012, 01:09:59 AM
Are you asking us to decrypt this for you, or do you not understand what you are looking at?
1967  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Corporal Punishment (Re: Our response to Dmytri Kleiner's misunderstanding of money on: November 14, 2012, 10:31:23 PM
If I use pain reinforcment for behavior modification, it's only after repeated events that strongly imply that my child in inclined towards that particular behavior, and other corrective measure have proven ineffective.

To paraphrase, we've already established that you're an abuser. That you wait until you run out of patience is just haggling over the price.

You strike a child as a preemptive measure to prevent future actions. That's initiating violence.
You subject your children to psychological torture as retribution for their actions. The same methods used by your parents. You're a very conscientious abuser, since you make sure to limit the time spent in a corner. That a judge hands out light sentences does not make his caging people right.


Distorting my words in order to fit your preconception of what I do doesn't alter the reality.

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That you have a discussion after the baby jail shows that you understand that they can be reasoned with. Yet you hit them and apply... what was the phrase you used for torture? Oh yes... "judicious & immediate use of small levels of pain." I'm sure they're grateful that you only hurt them a little.


I'm fairly certain that last statement is correct, but irrelvent.

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If you want to raise animals, treat your children like animals. If you wish to raise adults, treat your children like adults.

Best of luck with that theory.  I give you about even odds that your dauthers will hate you and your wife for reasons that you will never comprehend.
1968  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Corporal Punishment (Re: Our response to Dmytri Kleiner's misunderstanding of money on: November 14, 2012, 09:57:23 PM


So, what forms of "behavior modification" do you use?
Do you force noxious substances into the child's mouth?


I have yes, but not in the manner proscribed by that link.  I've put vinegar onto my elder son's fingertips while he is asleep, to discourge him from bitting his nails.  Nothing that would cause pain, like hot sauce, just taste bad.

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Do you prefer psychological torture, like forgetting them in a corner?


A timeout is always preferable to a spanking.  Again, pain as behavior conditioning should be the last resort for any behavior problem.  I've never had a child spend more than 10 minutes standing in a corner or more than 20 in a time out chair; and only that long because I got distracted while making lunch.  My rule of thumb is two minutes corner time per year of age, per infraction.  This gives them time to think about why it is that s/he is in trouble, and always ends with a quiz of why the child believes they are in timeout.  Unlike my own parents, I'm hyper-vigilant about leaving them in time-out for long periods, and I never go to bed, myself, without checking that each of my children is in bed and comfortable, so it would be practially impossible to do to my kids what my mother did to me.  I'd never be upset that my kid left time out if I forgot them anyway.  I'd feel really guilty about that.

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Are you beating your child because she might act in the future?


If I use pain reinforcment for behavior modification, it's only after repeated events that strongly imply that my child in inclined towards that particular behavior, and other corrective measure have proven ineffective.  Children as at least as likely to gravitate towards self-destructive behaviors as adults are.  Even though you have girls, you are going to encounter this yourself.  Be strong, young man; for you will be put to the test.

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Is that better, or were you just setting up to exit the conversation, like you accused me of earlier?


I'm fine.  My accusation was correct, I stated it so that you would re-examine your core motives and convict yourself.  I'm fairly sure that I was successful.  The meme has been planted, it will take time to grow.
1969  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Wikipedia: "Some criticize Bitcoin for being a Ponzi scheme..." on: November 14, 2012, 08:19:32 PM
After reading that talk page, I have never disliked a person as much as SudoGhost. Wikipedia should make sure their editors have an IQ of at least 80 IMO.

I have no doubts that his IQ is at least 80.  IQ isn't a measure of intelectual capacity, it's a (poor) metric intended to measure average learning comprehension rates.  For the developmentally delayed.  Any IQ number over 120 or so has no practical meaning.  From what I can see of SudoGhost he is more than capable of quickly learning to rationalize away his critics.
1970  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Corporal Punishment (Re: Our response to Dmytri Kleiner's misunderstanding of money on: November 14, 2012, 08:14:18 PM
I don't regard the judicious & immediate use of small levels of pain to be punishment, I consider to be behavior modification.  Try again.
Like whipping the slave? That's "behavior modification," is it not? So, what forms of "behavior modification" do you use? Electroshock therapy? Forcing noxious substances into the child's mouth? Perhaps you're more into the psychological torture, like forgetting them in a corner?

And yes, it's in defense.  Defense against my own child's hazardous behavior in the future.  It's planning in the same way you plan to defend yourself by buying a weapon, it's concious pre-planning.
Tsk, tsk... You know as well as I do you can't defend against a future action. You can plan, but you certainly can't shoot someone because they might try to kill you in the future. You're beating your child because she might act in the future? Yeah, that's initiating violence.

Myrkul, you should really take some time and examine yourself and your logic.  As well as your goals in this conversation.  Do you really desire to argue the semantics of my use of the term "defense"?  Is that conducive to your true goals?  I suspect that it is, but that your true goal is not to convince me of the error of my ways, but to convince yourself of the veracity of your position.

I'm not upset, and never have been while we are on this topic.  If you are getting upset by some words written by some guy on the Interent you have never met, perhaps you should examine why this makes yo so emotional.

I'm not upset. Perhaps that's you, projecting. Now, care to answer the questions I posed?

I would if you tried to restate them independently and coherently.  As they are up above they are confused and comingled.  Which is why I suspect that you're upset, that's a common effect on prose.
1971  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Corporal Punishment (Re: Our response to Dmytri Kleiner's misunderstanding of money on: November 14, 2012, 07:48:16 PM
I don't regard the judicious & immediate use of small levels of pain to be punishment, I consider to be behavior modification.  Try again.
Like whipping the slave? That's "behavior modification," is it not? So, what forms of "behavior modification" do you use? Electroshock therapy? Forcing noxious substances into the child's mouth? Perhaps you're more into the psychological torture, like forgetting them in a corner?

And yes, it's in defense.  Defense against my own child's hazardous behavior in the future.  It's planning in the same way you plan to defend yourself by buying a weapon, it's concious pre-planning.
Tsk, tsk... You know as well as I do you can't defend against a future action. You can plan, but you certainly can't shoot someone because they might try to kill you in the future. You're beating your child because she might act in the future? Yeah, that's initiating violence.

Myrkul, you should really take some time and examine yourself and your logic.  As well as your goals in this conversation.  Do you really desire to argue the semantics of my use of the term "defense"?  Is that conducive to your true goals?  I suspect that it is, but that your true goal is not to convince me of the error of my ways, but to convince yourself of the veracity of your position.

I'm not upset, and never have been while we are on this topic.  If you are getting upset by some words written by some guy on the Interent you have never met, perhaps you should examine why this makes yo so emotional.
1972  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Corporal Punishment (Re: Our response to Dmytri Kleiner's misunderstanding of money on: November 14, 2012, 07:04:37 PM
There it is, your intellectual admission that "limited" force is justifiable.  The distinction between our perspectives is just a question of intent.  You claim that attempting to condition my child to associate negative events to running into traffic must be retribution due to the delayed timing involved. 

Tsk, tsk... I expected better of you, MoonShadow. Corporal punishment (hell, punishment itself) is retributive. It's even in the definition:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporal_punishment
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Corporal punishment is a form of physical punishment that involves the deliberate infliction of pain as retribution for an offence
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punishment
Quote
Punishment is the authoritative imposition of something negative or unpleasant on a person, animal, organization or entity in response to behavior deemed unacceptable by an individual, group or other entity.

Surely you're not going to claim it's in defense?

Now who is cherry picking definitions to suit their argument?  Very well, I have used the term "corporal punishment" when I should have stuck with "behavior conditioning".  I used the term only because that is the common term, but I should have expected that, once cornered, you would use that poor use of precision against me.  I don't regard the judicious & immediate use of small levels of pain to be punishment, I consider to be behavior modification.  Try again.

And yes, it's in defense.  Defense against my own child's hazardous behavior in the future.  It's planning in the same way you plan to defend yourself by buying a weapon, it's concious pre-planning.
1973  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Corporal Punishment (Re: Our response to Dmytri Kleiner's misunderstanding of money on: November 14, 2012, 06:45:43 PM
Would you not call being hit by a bus "violent"? Considering the amount of force (physics) that would be channeled through his body should that occur, I would most certainly call it such.

No, I would not. A bus is not a living entity with will of violence. Violence requires intention to harm:
Well, since you clearly don't understand the language we're using to converse, I think we're done here. Come back when you understand English.


I though he was doing quite well, myself, considering English is a second language for him.  His understanding of the term "inititation" is apparently better tuned than your own.
1974  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Corporal Punishment (Re: Our response to Dmytri Kleiner's misunderstanding of money on: November 14, 2012, 06:37:57 PM
Quote from: MoonShadow link=topic=123798.msg1334523#msg1334523
date=1352898210
Quote from: MoonShadow link=topic=123798.msg1334106#msg1334106
date=1352870507
Quote
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Again, not every use of force is either criminal or unjustifiable.  If you
are trying to raise pascifists, you're on the easy path, but I'm not.
That might be cultural, but again, you don't have any say in what culture
I raise my children, either.
I'm not saying that every use of force is criminal or unjustifiable. I'm
saying initiating the use of force is criminal or unjustifiable.
Especially against someone who cannot fight back.

If your daughter should try to run into traffic, would you attempt to
reason with her, or grab her hand to stop her and reason with her later?
Obviously you would grab her hand and forcibly prevent her from harming
herself, but you have just initiated force against her in order to
do so.  By your logic, you would then be an abuser yourself.  The idea
that I may be more proactive, and employ behavior conditioning (instead of
attempting to reason with a two year old) in order to prevent a future
repeat of this scene does not make me any more of a initiator of force
than yourself.  Your going to have to recognize that, no matter how
opposed to the use of force against your own children you stand
philosophically; you will employ force against your children at
times.  Now, your self-justifiable limit of acceptable force may be much
lower than my own, but that certainly does not excuse your own use of
force.  The reality is that you will rationalize your level of force in
exactly the same manner that I rationalize mine; that you don't agree that
your level of force constitutes violence (as you define it) and that other
adults who have another opinion have no say in your situation. 
I've already said that intervention in order to prevent harm is
acceptable
.

Then you have already qualified some use of force, even initiation
of force, against your own child for her own good.
And you're deliberately blurring the definition of "force" to make
grabbing the child the same as hitting.

I'm not the one blurring anything.  Force is required.  The only
difference between you grabbing your child's hand and the cop grabbing
your hand is intent. I find it depressing to see you continue to deny that
which you already know.

Quote

You know the libertarian usage of the word. Violence.

Nonsense, violence is simply the qualifier.  An escalation of the force
used, along a continueum.  Again it's the degree of force that you
are arguing is criminal; not it's employment.

Quote

I'd hardly call grabbing a hand - or even snatching the child up out of
the street - using violence against the child. Striking the child is
certainly violence, however. Furthermore, even if grabbing the child
is violence (and it's not), recall that there are three types of
violence: initiatory, defensive, and retributive. Only defensive
violence is justified. Initiatory is clearly wrong, and retributive is
simply vengeance.

You initiated the force you used when you grabbed her hand.  You can not
claim defensive use of force against your child, because your child was
not threatening yourself, nor did you use force against the traffic that
threatened your daughter.  You might be able to claim defensive use
of force on the idea that your daughter was threatening herself, but then
so can I, so that point is moot.

Quote

Are you really saying that vengeance against your child for disobeying you
is acceptable?

Of course not. Are you saying that the cop's use of a taser against you
for 'resisting' is acceptable?  You still don't seem to understand that we
are not really arguing whether or not the use of force is justifyable, but
simply how much force is prudent.  Therefore every strawman argument you
present applies to your position as well.  That's cognative dissonance.

Quote
You're also blurring the usage of initiate. To initiate the use of force
against someone is to attack them when they have done nothing. The
child is endangering herself. That justifies a limited amount of
defensive force - just enough to rescue her from harm. As I said
before, continuing after that point is simply retribution. The rule of
thumb is that if you can justifiably do something to an adult in the same
situation, you can - probably - justifiably do it to a child.

There it is, your intellectual admission that "limited" force is justifiable.  The distinction between our perspectives is just a question of intent.  You claim that attempting to condition my child to associate negative events to running into traffic must be retribution due to the delayed timing involved.  This is not a rational mindset.  You certaily know that you cannot, as a third party observer, determine my motives via one encounter.  You're projecting, and that is what is upsetting you.  You are afraid that, if you agreed with me and ever decided to utilise corporel punishment that you might take it too far.



1975  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Silk road down for second day, what's going on? on: November 14, 2012, 02:23:21 PM
Quote
I just found this comment from DPR;

UPDATE (0012 UTC):  Sorry I'm late on this update, won't happen again.  We're pretty much polishing and going down the final check list at this point.  I'm confident we'll make our "matter of days" estimate and this won't be drawn out into week+ territory (assuming nothing goes wrong when we reopen).  When we reopen, access will be limited to vendors only for a few hours so they can mark packages shipped that were sent but not marked before we went down.  Also, auto-finalize and auto-vacation haven't been running since Sunday, and we won't fire those back up for a couple of days after we reopen so everyone can get square first.  Can't wait till this is behind us Smiley  Next update before 1500 UTC Wednesday.

DPR[/b][/i]


Finally some hope. Quick question though, would it be foolish to withdraw and send over coins while it's in this state, or would it be more apt to wait to send over when it's fully reopened?

Wait.  The receiving addresses may have changed.
1976  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Our response to Dmytri Kleiner's misunderstanding of money on: November 14, 2012, 01:34:05 PM
That may be so but if someone hacked my comptuer and emptied my bank account I would get reimbursed 100% by the banks and they would even investigate on their own terms.. With bitcoins will get back 100% of nothing. It just gone to some unknown hash address. I understand your passion towares bitcoins since you run a very profitable bitcoin gambling site but realistically there are far to many negatives for bitcoin to become anything more than a novelty item.

Someone really needs to invent cold wallets, paper wallets, brain wallets, the idea of making multiple copies of a file, strong encryption, online security best practices, diversification (spreading large balances across multiple addresses stored in different locations / formats), multi-sig addresses, and the concept of insurance agreements.  Until at least a few of those advances are made, I think the hacking / accidental loss problem is probably insurmountable.   Smiley

And two-factor authentication.
1977  Other / Off-topic / Dimitry Orlov is selling his boat. on: November 14, 2012, 01:17:43 PM
http://cluborlov.blogspot.com/2012/11/sv-hogfish-is-for-sale.html

This boat is no mere plaything.  It's designed & equip as a sailing survivalist cabin.  I think it would be awesome if someone offered him bitcoins, but I don't need a boat that only sleeps 2 and don't have enough bitcoins to make such an offer.

Edit: Dimitry has weathered 4 hurricanes on this boat, according to his blogpost about Sandy.
1978  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Corporal Punishment (Re: Our response to Dmytri Kleiner's misunderstanding of money on: November 14, 2012, 01:03:30 PM
Quote
Quote
Again, not every use of force is either criminal or unjustifiable.  If you are trying to raise pascifists, you're on the easy path, but I'm not.  That might be cultural, but again, you don't have any say in what culture I raise my children, either.
I'm not saying that every use of force is criminal or unjustifiable. I'm saying initiating the use of force is criminal or unjustifiable. Especially against someone who cannot fight back.

If your daughter should try to run into traffic, would you attempt to reason with her, or grab her hand to stop her and reason with her later?  Obviously you would grab her hand and forcibly prevent her from harming herself, but you have just initiated force against her in order to do so.  By your logic, you would then be an abuser yourself.  The idea that I may be more proactive, and employ behavior conditioning (instead of attempting to reason with a two year old) in order to prevent a future repeat of this scene does not make me any more of a initiator of force than yourself.  Your going to have to recognize that, no matter how opposed to the use of force against your own children you stand philosophically; you will employ force against your children at times.  Now, your self-justifiable limit of acceptable force may be much lower than my own, but that certainly does not excuse your own use of force.  The reality is that you will rationalize your level of force in exactly the same manner that I rationalize mine; that you don't agree that your level of force constitutes violence (as you define it) and that other adults who have another opinion have no say in your situation.  
I've already said that intervention in order to prevent harm is acceptable.

Then you have already qualified some use of force, even initiation of force, against your own child for her own good.  This is exactly the same as the classic story of the professor asking a female student if she'd sleep with him for $1 million, then half a milllion, then $200K, and when she says, "what kind of girl do you think that I am?!"  "Miss, we have already established that, now we are just haggling on a price."

We have already established that you are willing to accept the initiation of some degree of force against your own child, in the interests of protecting her from harm.  Now we are just haggling just how much force you would consider justifiable before we cross your threshhold of acceptability.  And that is the point; your's is not only different than mine, it's different than everyone else's as well.  There are certainly people in this world that could justify to themselves that forcing their children to go outside and choose their own switch is acceptable, while I would not; the difference between us is that I recognize that I'm not the one who gets to decide for them, no matter how uncomfortable I might be with it.

1979  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Corporal Punishment (Re: Our response to Dmytri Kleiner's misunderstanding of money on: November 14, 2012, 12:53:50 PM
The slave comment was your's, and I do have the right to defend my child with deadly force whether or not you perceive my actions as abuse or not.

Except that myrkul said "We would likely have something of this very conversation". So you would NOT be defending your child with deadly force, you would be responding to myrkul's mere vocalizations towards you with lead traveling at high velocity at his vital organs. That is a disproportionate response. How the frack can you justify killing a man for merely speaking to you? Jeezus...

Because his intervention doesn't imply a polite conversation, but him grabbing my child in public.  That makes him the aggressor, from my perspectives.  Hence, my potential response.  He knows why and so do you, this bs argument is a distraction.
1980  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Corporal Punishment (Re: Our response to Dmytri Kleiner's misunderstanding of money on: November 14, 2012, 05:21:47 AM
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
Oh, it works, alright... Just not necessarily as intended.
Since the intention is also not your perview, I assume that you are cheekily conceding this point?
That spanking will modify the behavior of the child thus abused? Certainly I concede that.... The whip alters the behavior of the slave tout suite, as well. Doesn't make it moral, nor does it change the slave's perception of the action that got him whipped. But it sure drives home the point that Master doesn't want him to do it.
Very well.
Well. That's the creepiest thing I have ever had the misfortune to read from you.

I thought your concession was more than a little creepy as well, but I didn't desire to drag it out longer than necessary since it was still a concession.  Great going, there.

Quote
Quote
Again, not every use of force is either criminal or unjustifiable.  If you are trying to raise pascifists, you're on the easy path, but I'm not.  That might be cultural, but again, you don't have any say in what culture I raise my children, either.
I'm not saying that every use of force is criminal or unjustifiable. I'm saying initiating the use of force is criminal or unjustifiable. Especially against someone who cannot fight back.

If your daughter should try to run into traffic, would you attempt to reason with her, or grab her hand to stop her and reason with her later?  Obviously you would grab her hand and forcibly prevent her from harming herself, but you have just initiated force against her in order to do so.  By your logic, you would then be an abuser yourself.  The idea that I may be more proactive, and employ behavior conditioning (instead of attempting to reason with a two year old) in order to prevent a future repeat of this scene does not make me any more of a initiator of force than yourself.  Your going to have to recognize that, no matter how opposed to the use of force against your own children you stand philosophically; you will employ force against your children at times.  Now, your self-justifiable limit of acceptable force may be much lower than my own, but that certainly does not excuse your own use of force.  The reality is that you will rationalize your level of force in exactly the same manner that I rationalize mine; that you don't agree that your level of force constitutes violence (as you define it) and that other adults who have another opinion have no say in your situation.  
Quote

But I am for damn sure going to step in and stop you from beating your child in front of me. We would likely have something of this very conversation, right there in the street.

 Practially speaking, we could not have this debate at that time on the street, because one or both of us would be dead or dying.
Lovely. First the slave comment, and now you've stated that you will defend your "right" to abuse your child with deadly force. You're really starting to disgust me.

The slave comment was your's, and I do have the right to defend my child with deadly force whether or not you perceive my actions as abuse or not.  Your perspectives could justify your actions against me, but my perspectives would also justify my actions against you.  If you are honestly starting to feel disgust, that's progress, because that's projection.
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