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2321  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: The thing nobody talks about. on: July 19, 2012, 08:28:04 PM
What if the World Bank/IMF decides to create an SDR backed crypcoin run on ASICs and spent billions to install networks? Would it be game-over for Bitcoin?

Although it would be easy for any central bank to destroy bitcoin, they simply won't do it.  The reason is that, in order for them to destry bitcoin, they would have to create a cryptocurrency with all of the features of bitcoin but also backed by the state's monopoly on force.  The features in Bitcoin are specificly chosen because they make Bitcoin into the ideal Internet currency, but central banks don't want ideal money, or they would never have left the gold standard to start with.  Central banks want control, and they would still desire that in any cryptocurrency that they might create.  That control puts it at a disadvantage against the market leader, Bitcoin.
2322  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Transaction fees higher than yesterday? on: July 18, 2012, 08:59:07 PM
yesterday i wanted to make a small transaction of 0.15 BTC. the official client wanted to have 0.0025 BTC fee.
i declined this.

today i just wanted to make the same transaction but now the client wants 0.003 BTC fee.
how is this possible?

there have been no other transactions to my wallet since yesterday.

Are you sure?  I can't recall mine ever asking for less than .005 BTC.

Don't you mean .0005?

Maybe so...
2323  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Transaction fees higher than yesterday? on: July 18, 2012, 06:00:07 PM
yesterday i wanted to make a small transaction of 0.15 BTC. the official client wanted to have 0.0025 BTC fee.
i declined this.

today i just wanted to make the same transaction but now the client wants 0.003 BTC fee.
how is this possible?

there have been no other transactions to my wallet since yesterday.

Are you sure?  I can't recall mine ever asking for less than .005 BTC.
2324  Bitcoin / Electrum / Re: [ANNOUNCE] Electrum - a new thin client on: July 18, 2012, 05:53:36 PM

I know that it's not easy, I'm concerned that it's possible.  It takes government level cryptologists to reverse a twice used one-time-pad, but it can be done.  And deterministic wallets are not standard at all.  As far as I know, Electrum & Brainwallet are the only two examples of it in use in Bitcoin, and Brainwallet seems to use Electrum code to do it, so the methods are identical.

The amazing benefits and security of type-2 determinstic wallets has been discussed at length in several previous threads.

In fact, Electrum is not alone:  Armory also chose to use deterministic wallets, and MultiBit and Bitcoin-Qt both plan to implement them as well.

I'm concerned about a particular attack vector.  If you happen to have a link to show me, that would be helpful, but I am already aware of the several advantages of deterministic wallets.  I would like to see one of the crypto-geeks (better than I) assess this particular risk.  I can't really do it because I'm not very good at looking at the code and knowing what I'm looking at.
2325  Economy / Goods / Freedomcam.net on: July 17, 2012, 11:22:01 PM
I just discovered that freedomcam.net accepts bitcoin.  I don't know how long this has been going on, but that is pretty cool.
2326  Bitcoin / Electrum / Re: [ANNOUNCE] Electrum - a new thin client on: July 17, 2012, 10:35:14 PM
I would feel more than comfortable with using deterministic keys for the vast majority of daily transactions, I'm more concerned about the possibility that this might eventually lay someone open to a large theft when the user believed that deterministic keys are as secure as individually created keys, and they most certainly are not.  More than likely they are far more secure than most people will ever realisticly need, since real security is a scale between convience and safety.

2327  Bitcoin / Electrum / Re: [ANNOUNCE] Electrum - a new thin client on: July 17, 2012, 02:06:53 PM
I have a question concerning the method of deterministic keypair generation that the Electrum client uses.  My understanding is that a 128 bit random number is created for the 'seed', and that all followup keypairs are derived from this number.  The number is represented outside of the client as a set of twelve English words.  While I can see this as pretty slick, I thought of a potential problem.  In cryptography, the Vernam Cipher or the one-time pad is considered an unbreakable code without the key; however it's called a one-time pad because if the key is reused even once, it's possible for a crytographer to derive the original key from the two encrypted codes, so long as he knows that they belong together.  While I would doubt that taking two bitcoin addresses produced by the same Electrum client can be used to reproduce the seed, a large number of them known to come from the same user (and thus the same client) potentially could be used to reproduce the seed of that user, thus laying open that user's entire balance to theft.  What algo does Electrum use to produce the keypairs, specificly?  And is it known to be hardened against this kind of attack?  I don't wish to diparage Electrum, but this potential attack vector with deterministic wallets honestly concerns me, and I don't see this addressed elsewhere.

I think it uses key stretching to make such a thing infeasible.

Code:
    def stretch_key(self, seed):
        oldseed = seed
        for i in range(100000):
            seed = hashlib.sha256(seed + oldseed).digest()
        return string_to_number(seed)

Although best to ask ThomasV or gmaxwell. Deterministic wallets are pretty standard, so I'm not so sure it's totally easy to guess someone's seed.

I know that it's not easy, I'm concerned that it's possible.  It takes government level cryptologists to reverse a twice used one-time-pad, but it can be done.  And deterministic wallets are not standard at all.  As far as I know, Electrum & Brainwallet are the only two examples of it in use in Bitcoin, and Brainwallet seems to use Electrum code to do it, so the methods are identical.
2328  Economy / Goods / Re: Announcing my first product, Clothes Detergent on: July 17, 2012, 06:29:58 AM
Why should it matter? Even if it gets intercepted for having mysterious powder in it I am sure it smells like cleaning detergent when you open it... Not like its going to come in a vacuum sealed smelly proof packaging looking suspicious. I would almost think "DETERGENT" on the bag would make it look sketchier. Just my 2 cents. 
I wasn't thinking for officials intercepting it, more like my wife.

Here's and idea.  Tell her it's coming.
2329  Economy / Speculation / Re: Ladies and Gentleman, There goes $9 on: July 17, 2012, 06:01:44 AM
Nope, this is elliott wave theory guys, the price is gonna hit $30, then $100.  Bitcoin is undervalued, now that people understand it, they will hold tight, the market matured significantly since last summer's high of $31.90.  Perhaps, we could see $100 before the end of the year Smiley

I agree that both the market and the infrastructure has significantly improved, but I have a hard time accepting that the improvement is worth this much.

I'm honestly surprised that we haven't really tested the teens yet.  From my perspectives, the high last year was obviously a bubble due to hype, but there is no hype here.  In fact, quite the opposite, the bitcoin economy has grown significantly; and with Silk Road still marching along as if it's untouchable, the reputation that bitcoin can do what is claimed is starting to really talk hold.  Just last week I had the first person to ever ask me if I had heard about "this Bitcoin thing" without some obvious segway to the topic.  The current userbase should be able to sustain $15 at least, IMHO.  The last I looked, it appeared as if Silk Road alone was doing $2 million per month in gross sales, and the 24 volume record from MtGox alone is roughly 20% of the entire bitcoin base.  Some news is brewing here with this spike & pullback, I just don't know what it is yet.
2330  Economy / Speculation / Re: Bitcoin soaring, highest I've seen it since last year while it was decreasing on: July 17, 2012, 12:18:37 AM
Quite a run, and the 24 hour volume on MtGox is nothing to sneeze at either.  This is going to make it harder for me to invest in more bitcoin.  Must...Suppress....Price!  Minions, go!
2331  Other / Politics & Society / Re: All about bitcoin except in name on: July 17, 2012, 12:07:32 AM

I don't know if I quite agree.  The thing is that counter-economics or agorism is a deliberate action on the part of the parties engaged in business, as a means of undermining the health of the state.  While agorism could be included in System D, not all such System D economic activity could be considered agorism; since most of it is simply economic actors avoiding the state for personal reasons, not political activism.
2332  Bitcoin / Electrum / Re: [Electrum] a brainwallet in twelve words on: July 16, 2012, 11:06:52 PM
Could mnemonic.py be used by any other client to produce a set of English words for a regularly produced address?  Thus being able to print out the 12 word sets of a regularly produced set of private keys for archival backup?
2333  Bitcoin / Electrum / Re: [ANNOUNCE] Electrum - a new thin client on: July 16, 2012, 10:56:18 PM
I have a question concerning the method of deterministic keypair generation that the Electrum client uses.  My understanding is that a 128 bit random number is created for the 'seed', and that all followup keypairs are derived from this number.  The number is represented outside of the client as a set of twelve English words.  While I can see this as pretty slick, I thought of a potential problem.  In cryptography, the Vernam Cipher or the one-time pad is considered an unbreakable code without the key; however it's called a one-time pad because if the key is reused even once, it's possible for a crytographer to derive the original key from the two encrypted codes, so long as he knows that they belong together.  While I would doubt that taking two bitcoin addresses produced by the same Electrum client can be used to reproduce the seed, a large number of them known to come from the same user (and thus the same client) potentially could be used to reproduce the seed of that user, thus laying open that user's entire balance to theft.  What algo does Electrum use to produce the keypairs, specificly?  And is it known to be hardened against this kind of attack?  I don't wish to diparage Electrum, but this potential attack vector with deterministic wallets honestly concerns me, and I don't see this addressed elsewhere.
2334  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Can anyone speak to this video? Critical of Bitcoin on: July 16, 2012, 10:19:24 PM
Hehehehe the more important point is that if Bitcoin reaches the size of the Visa network, then we already won.

This is also true, if Bitcoin ever reaches this level of success, as solution will be found because we are already too big to stop.
2335  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Can anyone speak to this video? Critical of Bitcoin on: July 16, 2012, 10:18:23 PM
For example, his attack on scalability has as starting condition "if they operate VISA size network" and conclusion oh they would need to buy 1TB storage per week. Do you think VISA sized network could afford buying a few HDD's per day (even assuming that storage tech freezes forever now)?

Uh sure if there's 1 node, unfortunately this is a problem that every node has to deal with. I can't possibly imagine how someone who works on bitcoin magazine and has 2,300 posts and I think his own bitcoin message board too would not understand the difference.

Do you think VISA size network would have a problem buying 1000 HDD's a day, 4 years from now?


It also wouldn't be true once pruning is enabled.  Bandwidth would be a bottleneck for full clients on the margins, but certainly not any server-farm housed full client.
2336  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Can anyone speak to this video? Critical of Bitcoin on: July 16, 2012, 10:09:35 PM
So there is a real scalability problem?

Yes there is a real scalability problem if all users are full clients.  No, that was never the intention.  We are already way past the point (imho) that we need more full clients.  We need more light clients and overlay networks to support them, such as BitcoinSpinner, Electrum & Stratum.
2337  Other / Politics & Society / All about bitcoin except in name on: July 16, 2012, 09:34:46 PM
http://www.forbes.com/sites/jerrybowyer/2012/07/08/july-4th-question-part-iii-americans-revolt-billions-of-times-a-day/

Really about the 'System D' economy, of which Bitcoin is a small part.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/System_D
2338  Other / Politics & Society / Re: US health care mandate (Obamacare) on: July 16, 2012, 08:13:43 PM
http://www.foxbusiness.com/on-air/stossel/index.html#/v/1702587311001/is-the-data-on-the-rising-cost-of-health-care-misleading/?playlist_id=87530

This seven minute clip from a recent Stossel episode explains some of the problems with Obamacare pretty well.

Sure does explain that well.

What do you guys think of this. Its from Common Good. I like just about everything else Common Good says but have yet to read it.
http://commongood.3cdn.net/40b8923081a2c002be_o6m6vzft7.pdf

I stopped reading at "State based ideas..."
2339  Other / Politics & Society / Re: US health care mandate (Obamacare) on: July 16, 2012, 08:11:03 PM
A bit of thread necromancy to link this article about 'rationing' of healthcare.

http://www.thefreemanonline.org/columns/tgif/market-doesnt-ration/
2340  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Businesses or Services that Bitcoin could use on: July 16, 2012, 05:19:58 PM
If the vendor doesn't accept bitcoin you should have the choice to pay with USD or bitcoin on your cellphone. It would make it easier, if the Bitcoins loaded on your cellphone could be converted into usd on it. If stores don't accept bitcoin, for example; lets say your on your cellphone getting ready to pay at the register, you have the choice to convert your bitcoin to usd and then scan your cellphone for whatever they accept.

If it were possible to do with US $ what you describe in any secure fashion for any reasonable cost, Bitcoin could never have come to be to begin with.
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