For merely OPsec reasons it is not reasonable nor practical to expect any kind of photo or video of any forum members, so largely we need to go by the words and/or representations of our fellow forum members.. but it does not hurt to question their words and/or their representations in regards to what they are saying that they are doing, especially if they are describing something that seems more like a fantasy (or a fiction) rather than something that they are actually doing in physical biological corporal reality.

We might be going through consolidation for nearly 4 months, but I doubt that "stable" is any kind of an accurate way of describing BTC prices or BTC price dynamics.

Personally, I don't really like the term "stable" to describe something like bitcoin prices, especially since to me it seems that bitcoin is in a kind of war, so even if there are periods of relative "stability" or consolidation that might even be considered as going upon 4 months from the end of February, for me, that still does really rise to the level of stability... so yeah, good luck if you are relying on BTC prices to continue to largely stay in a $60k to $70k-ish range.

And.. really who cares about $70k.l yeah we are bouncing around it and yeah $69k was the previous ATH price, so surely $70k has some significance, yet so does $100k, and so even if there is no real reason to get worked up about $70k or $100k, it seems to me that we could find ourselves bouncing around $120k to $180k, even within this calendar year, and then all of a sudden we might start to consider that we were taking for granted that BTC had been spending so much time in 5 digits.. and I am not going to proclaim to know whether 5 digits will become out of the question to return to these prices, but surely I would not be surprised for those folks who are failing/refusing to sufficiently/adequately prepare for up.. and yeah, it is not guaranteed to go up.. but still it may well be helpful to make sure that you (we) are sufficiently/adequately prepared for up.. just in case such up might end up happening.. and sure?  how do we prepare for up?  Need I ask?

If you are questioning and/or even taking for granted that $70k is supposedly some challenging number to get above, then surely your own ideas of bitcoin might not be in the right place.. even though, again, I am not presuming such UPpity to be guaranteed, but it would be a shame (which it is) if some folks were not sufficiently and/or adequately preparing for UP, even though they should have been.. which happens to be around 99% of the world's population that has no coins or low coins.


Yes... rumors and information may well scare some folks out of their coin.. so surely there could be some folks who are selling too many coins too soon because they have some kind of a belief that these might be decently good prices to sell some of their corn.. .. and yeah, we have a lot of historical examples of folks selling too many coins too soon.. but that's their choice.


Huh?  it is going to take that long to cross over $100k?  Wow.

You are not incorrect in anything that you are saying Btcdeybodi, yet you seem to make the process of the first four years of investing in bitcoin to sound more magnanimous than it may well be in terms of each of us likely coming from different places in terms of our investments and/or starting points, and so it could well be that someone comes into bitcoin and is brand new to any kind of investing into anything, and there are also folks who come into bitcoin and have already experienced other kinds of investing, so they are adding bitcoin into the mix of their already existing investments.  .. so surely, I don't necessarily mind presuming and/or exploring cases in which people might be completely new to both investing and new to bitcoin, yet it still remains dangerous to presume too much of that without specifically pointing that out to be our presumptions.. and if we are getting to a place in which someone is brand new to both bitcoin and to investing, I really have my doubts about their making magnanimous progress within a 4 year timeline, even if 4 years might be enough time for them to really to get the hang of managing their finances (and psychology) and likely putting in place good systems of cashflow management, such as establishing and managing of an emergency fund, reserves and their monthly cash floats.  Those kinds of practices can be decently established in 4 years, but not necessarily expecting to become rich or even to be in any kind of meaningful profits with your bitcoin investment.

No matter what when we add some kind of a new investment into our practices, we are likely going to be attempting to learn along the way, and there may well be some aspects of bitcoin that we do not really realize that we do not know until we have been looking into bitcoin for a while and have studied and thought about it. 

I do consider that many times people overly emphasize how much we need to know about bitcoin in order to invest into it, when the more important learning points remain learning about ourselves, our finances, our psychology and how to manage our cashflow, including our bitcoin investment, even though surely there are some special aspects of bitcoin that are also worthy of learning - especially since bitcoin is a paradigm shifting asset class that is quite unique and it could take several years  (beyond merely 4 years) to wrap our heads around having a better understanding in regards to how bitcoin differs from other investment options that we might have when we start in bitcoin or other investment opportunities that might come to us during our first 4 years involved in bitcoin.. and will we get distracted or not or will we be able to keep ourselves with some kind of a meaningful focus that is tailored to our personal circumstances.

Your seeming presumption about making a lot of progress over 4 years of investing into bitcoin may well be overly presumptuous, since it could take 20 years or more for someone to really meaningful and significantly build up an investment (whether bitcoin or any other investment or even if we might consider that there are possibilities that our bitcoin investment could end up paying off in a shorter period of time than other places that we might put our value.. without guarantees, either), so we cannot necessarily presume that someone coming into bitcoin is going to become totally transformed into riches in 4 years, and it could even be the case that 4 years of investing into bitcoin has not actually realized a whole lot of progress (and maybe not even being in profits).. but still there could be values in terms of going through such a process of investing, learning about yourself and organizing yourself.

Regarding your ideas of lump sum investing opportunities..  frequently the consideration of lump sum opportunities might come in the very beginning of an investment, but surely as you suggested, there could be opportunities for lump sum investing at various points down the road too.. yet at the same time, the longer that anyone is in bitcoin, then there would be a bit of a presumption that such person had already been building up his/her bitcoin stash including that how and the extent to which the bitcoin stash is being built up (in comparison to any other investments - including cash reserves that the person has) is going to help to inform that person in regards to future actions in terms of if some lump sum amounts of money might suddenly come available and then there might already be a system in place so that the lump sum extra amounts might be able to be plugged into bitcoin in full or perhaps in part.. and with discretion and insight regarding whether and how to employ lump sum investment opportunities if they might come later down the road rather than coming in the very beginning stages of a bitcoin investment period.


That is not true.  There is no need to diversify for the mere sake of diversification.. especially for newbies.


You seem to be contradicting yourself a bit.  Sure, newbies may well need to figure out their own finances and their psychology.. but you seem to be focusing also on some kind of need to understand the underlying investment (which is bitcoin in this case).


Maybe I kind of agree with you here.., even though you are saying it in a bit of a weird way.

I think the main point is get started and learn along the way.. and also if there is discomfort with the amount of bitcoin knowledge, or even discomfort with the person's (newbie's) financial / psychological status, then adjust the investment amount into bitcoin downwardly while learning about bitcoin and to be able to feel that s/he is not overly investing in such a way that it is going to contribute towards either financial and/or psychological stress.


Surely I agree with you in regards to the earliest of bitcoin accumulation stages which may be 4-10 years or longer depending on how aggressi vely that a newbie is able to invest into bitcoin, so yeah, maybe after several years investing into bitcoin, s/he might be able to start to consider market timing kinds of matters.. but yeah, in the very earliest of BTC accumulation stages there may well be hardly any need to really think too much about timing of the market...

Let's say for example that a newbie gets started in bitcoin and decides to invest 10% of his/her salary into bitcoin and with that rate of investment, it is going to take right around 10 years to have 1 year's worth of salary invested into bitcoin, and so we cannot necessarily presume that bitcoin values are going to out pace the rate of inflation, so after 10 years we may well ONLY have an investment that is right around 1 year's worth of salary (expenses)...   I have a hard time considering that someone that ONLY has around 1 year's salary invested into bitcoin would really be in a strong financial situation to start to time the market, even though surely folks are able to engage in their own analysis including it makes way more sense to analyze where someone is actually at after 4-10 years or longer rather than speculating about it, so in that regard, the analysis makes more sense when it is based on the data that accounts for where the person is actually at rather than where the person may or may not be.. and of course, we can also choose our level of aggressiveness in order to attempt to try to get to a stronger financial and/or psychological situation faster,

and so for example a person who invests 25% of his salary into bitcoin is going to reach 1 years of salary in right around 4 years, so the time is drastically reduced when a person develops the capacity to invest higher percentages of his/her salary (by either increasing income or reducing expenses), and yeah, not all people are able to invest anywhere close to 25% of their salary, and there are so many folks who struggle (and/or are not ready, willing or able) to even invest somewhere in the ballpark of 10% of their salary into something like bitcoin.. so surely some folks might speculate that investing is easy, but it takes a quite a bit of efforts to both establish a system and then to employ such system while at the same time not being tempted to be dipping into one's investment prior to allowing their investment with the passage of time to continue to grow... poor people can really be tempted to dip into their investment portfolio and to borrow from it or to  take profits or some other short-sighted nonsense that they might not realize and/or appreciate the negative consequences of their inabilities to refrain from dipping into their investment portfolio (whether bitcoin or anything else.. here we are talking about bitcoin, of course).


Probably the most basic thing to learn in the beginning is whether you have discretionary income or not.. and if you determine that you do, then you can figure out how much to buy, and so you have to figure out from where to buy it.

Now if you are starting out by buying $10 to $200, then maybe there is no need to learn how to self-custody.. so self-custody and wallet use may well be learned later down the road... maybe even after already buying bitcoin for several months, maybe even a year.. depending on how much you might be buying and/or if it might become justifiable to hold your coins in self-custody.

Don't get me wrong, I consider self-custody to be a very self-empowering part of bitcoin, but self-custody and/or learning about self-custody surely are not prerequisites to getting started in bitcoin.


Surely, these are the basic ideas that any investor needs to know or learn in the beginning of investing, and surely some new investors might not already have good cash management practices or even clear ways of understanding the extent to which they have discretionary income and how to manage their discretionary income in such a way that they are able to invest with some of their discretionary income.


Yep.. bitcoin and cash are the two main categories in order to start investing, and surely if any beginner starts to get into other investments, then there may well both be a loss of focus and a dilution of funds... so surely as you stated Frankolala, there is no need to consider diversification as any kind of necessary prerequisite, and considering diversification surely can both be distracting and counter-productive for the  newest of investors.

Pushups seem to be better for your whole core, especially if you do some variation of full pushups, even if those pushups might be inclined rather than flat... so working on the core probably indirectly can help with posture and even with your back, even though maybe there are some better exercises for back and posture..

There is a kind of exercise that it is like a hyperextend that might be able to be done without any equipment and maybe something like that could be done to supplement pushups if some folks might want to strengthen lower back.  https://www.webmd.com/fitness-exercise/how-to-do-back-extensions


Oh gawd...  

Hopefully we do not have members who are either doubly counting or engaging in fictitious pushups.

All would be fair in love and war if each of the members were to put on his/her own costume or got into to his/her own psychological avatar framework or character to do his/her pushups as long as none of the members are doubly counting such pushups.. otherwise from my own perspective it seems justifiable that each and and all of such members would need to be eliminated or banned from the pushups table absent some kind of a reasonable and acceptable explanation for how the pushups are being done and that such pushups are not being doubly counted in terms of the supposed strengths and weaknesses of each of the characters.. and if "we" might conclude that the actual members are engaging in fictional rather than real results (pushups)... but yeah, we have difficulties knowing these kinds of matters beyond self-reporting and if they self-reporting at least sounds logical and reasonable and there is some kind of need for both self-representations and also a bit of honesty in reporting these pushups.. since many of us are actually engaged in actual and real pushups and "we" do not consider our own actual pushups to be a virtual activity..

In other words, pushups are physical with real world consequences, and if the three characters that are listed here (teamsherry, Troytech and/or Timelord2067) are not double counting their pushups, then personally, I have no problem with each (and all) of them participating in self-reporting of their pushups and each and all of them being included in the pushup table results.. yet if any of these members are double counting any of their pushups or if there might be doubts in regards to if any or all of them are engaging in actual physical pushups rather than in virtual and/or imaginary pushups, then that would not be fair to the rest of us to include those numbers in the pushups table when we are actually doing physical pushups.. as far as any of the information that we have about the members included in the pushups table goes...

That's my tentative perspective on the topic of the potentiality of multiple members being the same physical person..   Another thing is that a bot and/or some kind of an AI would also not able to do physical pushups either within the sense that many of us is considering pushups as a physical real world activity, just like an AI is not able to cook a pizza to be in the pizza competition... .. so yeah, hopefully there is a certain level of physicality involved in the content of these pushup reports that involve biological beings rather than imagination... and sure, no problem if some forum members (participating in these pushups) might not be 100% human in the sense of having some metal transplants in their corpuses... Members with some artificial additions to their physical bodies can still be considered a physical being for the purposes of this here pushup challenge.

By the way.. @DirtyKeyboard:  funny about your precursor of: "with all due respect"   ... you must be Canadian.  

I will just supplement by suggesting that one of the problems with diversification too early is like you said that yu may well lose your focus, yet again another aspect of losing focus is diluting your investment.. so there could be some circumstances in which diversification might make some sense, diversification is not necessarily something that needs to be done in the beginning for anyone who is in the earliest of stages of getting used to investing and also the earliest of stages in building his/her investment portfolio, so there is nothing wrong with starting out with just bitcoin and cash.. figuring out various ways to manage your cash and getting used to buying bitcoin regularly and buiilding your bitcoin stash, and then maybe somewhere down the road after you had been building your bitcoin and your cash for a while, then maybe at some later point you might consider some value in thinking about diversifying.. even though surely I have some difficulties considering diversification as any kind of necessity or justifiable for anyone who has not even accumulated a whole years of income/expenses in bitcoin, and surely people might find lower thresholds (such as 6 months of income expenses in bitcoin) to justify some need to start to consider whether some diversification might be suitable for such person at that stage in their investment portfolio building (and surely not referring to shitcoins either in terms of other possible assets to diversify into).


There are not very many places that have 5% or more of their population who have invested into bitcoin, so any place that has that kind of level of actual investment into bitcoin seems like a pretty high number.. and even if the whole world's population had around 5 % of the world's population into bitcoin then that would be right around 405 million people invested into bitcoin, and I doubt that there is even 100 million of the world's population invested into bitcoin - even though there are some greedy persons/institutions that hold way higher percentages of bitcoin than any normal person is going to have trouble even getting a whole bitcoin unless he aggressively gets started working towards such an accumulation target.. so yeah, average people might even have trouble getting 1 million satoshis, even though right now, 1 million satoshis could be bought for right around $660, which seems like it is going to be difficult to buy 1 million satoshis for that kind of a price in the future... but hey, no one knows and so it seems that those of us who are stacking bitcoin and stacking satoshis are likely going to be in a better position than those who come to bitcoin 4-10 years or even later down the road.. which truly, there are likely going to be folks brand new to bitcoin later down the road.. such as just getting started somewhere around 4-10 years or longer down the road, and some of us have already gotten a head  start in terms of our own stacking.

I am glad to see that you are joining in.. and yeah, I personally believe that your pushups should not be included in the table until you are able to average at least 10 pushups per day.. which I have frequently made the same assertion, which I believe is member neutral... though I do see that DirtyKeyboard's script has not yet excluded your results from the table, even though they are way below 10 pushups per day (3.33 to be precise).

Of course, you can do various moderation in terms of pushups, so that you do not have to do regular/full pushups, such as doing your pushups from your knees or doing inclined pushups as philipma had described earlier in the thread where he did his pushups on the stairs where his hands were on the higher rungs of the stairs.

Another way to do moderated pushups might be to do them against the wall, so maybe if you can think of some way of moderating your pushups that works for you, then maybe try to do 8-10 pushups per set for maybe up to 3 sets per day spread out through the whole day and then work your way up to more and more difficult kinds of pushups where maybe someday down the road you might be able to do 8-10 or even more full regular pushups in each of your sets.

So one thing when you are beginning to do something like pushups is that you want to make what you are doing something that you can do within a reasonable form, but at the same time to make the pushups so that they are not overly easy, and you are likely going to get sore for a week, two weeks or even longer if you keep doing pushups regularly.  

I personally have mostly been sore the whole time that I have been doing these pushups and within this challenge, which is 132 days for me so far, so it surely hurts me and I frequently don't want to do my daily pushups, but I make myself do them and to get started each time, and I can do more pushups without getting as sore as I used to do but I also frequently need to psych myself up before doing the pushup sets each time and even to purposefully breath heavily while doing my pushups and sometimes even grunt at various times in order to help me more to psych myself into being able to do the pushups...

I am not going to claim that doing the daily pushups are easy, even if they have become somewhat easier after doing them for a while, and even if you are doing modified pushups (especially in the beginning) which are supposed to be easier by design to help you get your quantity of pushups up to something like 8-10 pushups per set, you are still likely going to need to work your way up to more difficult varieties of pushups such as being able to do full pushups and try to stay persistent with your pushups and also try not to make your pushups so hard that you end up injuring yourself or discouraging yourself from doing them (and/or being able to reach personal goals), so especially in the beginning while you are still getting used to pushups and building up your quantity (and perhaps quality too), it is better to error a little bit on the side of going easy on yourself while your body is getting used to adding these new exercises to your daily routine, and if you are able to try to make sure that you eat well and you sleep well too, then those kinds of purposeful activities of choosing healthy activities may also contribute to your strength and your morale building in terms of being able to do whatever quantity and quality of pushups that you are able to do.. and hopefully you can get up to an average of 10 per day in order to get included in the table.

Edited: last two paragraphs to make more clear

Both lump sum and DCA can be done in front-loading kinds of ways in which there is a kind of purposeful attempt to gather more bitcoin towards the beginning of the investment, whether that front loading is with a few lump sum investing or more aggressive DCA, but a person could have a timeline in which s/he is specifically trying to get a certain amount into bitcoin.. for example, he comes to bitcoin with an already investment portfolio of around $200k, he specifically would like to get 15% invested into bitcoin, but he wants to be careful in terms of how he might cash out of other assets that he has, so his target is to get $30k into bitcoin and maybe he wants to do it in 6 months or a year or some other kind of a fairly aggressive timeline, but he also may have some particular aspects in regards to assets that he already holds that he may or may not have flexibility with those other assets.. and so whether he ends up with $230k in his investment portfolio at the end of the investment (with $30k invested into bitcoin) or may he still has an investment portfolio of $200k, and yet he has taken away from some of his other investments in order to allocate the $30k towards bitcoin so in the second scenario he has $170k in other investments, so there can be a variety of ways that someone comes into bitcoin with a kind of front-loading lump summing and/or DCAing technique, and the particular ways that they hold their assets or the goals that they might want to achieve might well have to do with the resources that they already have (and how they are holding their value) at the time that they decide that they are coming into bitcoin.


All of that sounds correct, and you should get more knowledge about bitcoin and yourself if you spend 4 years or longer accumulating bitcoin, learning about bitcoin and potentially adjusting (and/or tweaking) your various BTC accumulation (and/or BTC maintenance) strategies along the way, so maybe after 4 years or more of accumulating bitcoin, you will be in a much better position to both assess how your bitcoin accumulation had been playing out and whether you need to make further adjustments to your strategy at that point or just to continue with what you had already been doing.

The mere fact that someone is keeping other kinds of funds that go beyond their 3 months of emergency funds does not necessarily mean that they would be calling the other kinds of funds the same thing.. so the emergency funds may well be something that is never touched outside of having an actual emergency, but there can be floating funds and reserves and/or various kinds of investments that are serving as reserves so that emergency funds never need to be touched and therefore the bitcoin investment might be amongst the last of any of the investments that would be touched.. depending on how any such person might structure his various kinds os extra cash.. some cash is very liquid and easy to get at and maybe other cash might take several days or even a week or two (or even a month or two) to get to in the event that the extra cash, cash equivalents or even other kinds of funds might be needed so that either emergency funds are not touched and more so that bitcoin investment would not be touched except at a time that is of complete choosing.

In other words there could be a lot more flexibility in other kinds of funds and whether emergency funds add up to ONLY 3 months of income/expenses or maybe they add up to 6 months of income/expenses, and so how much money that actually fits in that "emergency funds" category may well depend upon other kinds of funds that are available and also the size of the bitcoin investment... if the bitocin instment is fairly new and the bitcoin investment is less than 6 months worth of income/expenses, then maybe there is not as much importance in regards to the size of other kinds of cash cushion funds, but maybe as the bitcoin investment grows and grows, there may well be some needs and/or preferences to guard against any kind of need to draw upon it while it is still growing. and maybe still quite shy of reaching its target size whether that might be 10x income/expenses (in newer kinds of ways of assessing bitcoin value) or perhaps 20x to 30x income/expenses, which may well be more traditional ways of assessing value (though I personally consider that bitcoin value assessments do not necessarily need to be as high as traditional investment assessments in order to potentially still be able to outperform traditional investments in terms of achieving sustainable withdrawal rates).


Personally, I think that it is way better to figure out your expenses first prior to figuring out how much you have left for investing, yet of course, if you have a decent amount of discretionary income, you may end up arriving at similar results - even though for me it seems the better practice is to take care of your expenses prior to authorizing yourself to invest parts of your income that you are considering to be discretionary income... but hey whatever, do what you like and if what you are doing is working for you then so be it, but it seems more vulnerable for a mistake if you don't make sure your expenses are locked up prior to authorizing your investment amounts for the week/month or whatever might be your investment time periods.



Once you establish your emergency fund, then there not necessarily be any reason to think about it on a weekly and/or monthly basis since it will just be funds that are there and available that you hopefully will never need to touch.


Even though I consider emergency funds to be something that is built up and then never really touched, reserves and floats might bounce around a lot more, and so for example you could have floats and reserves serving as errors in your expense calculations of some of those funds might be dedicated towards specific kinds of things like buying on the dip or saving for a vacation or maintaining a going out to eat/entertainment fund, saving up for a new car/motorcycle/bicycle.. or whatever. and some of the funds might have some specific tag, or a timeline that it will be available and sometimes some of the reserve funds and float might get retagged or moved around to be used for something other than what it had originally been tagged/set aside for.


that is true.  The stronger our various extra cash funds, then the more likely we can afford to be more aggressive in our bitcoin investments, but we still might need to be careful if we end up dipping into reserves and/or float in order to buy more BTC, then we might end up having none of those extra funds except our emergency, so if an emergency ends up coming when we have exhausted our various other funds, we might find ourselves  in a position in which we might have had ended up overdoing it because we depleted various categories of funds that we had in place and working for us, even if some of them funds were not necessarily earning any income, yield or interest, they were still serving a purpose to keep us from having to even touch our emergency fund which may well be our last cushion prior to having to dip into our bitcoin investment.



it becomes dangerous if your reserves are not in fiat; however part of the justification for diversification of assets is that when your BTC, and reserves have grown so much, sometimes there may be desires to keep some of that amount in something other than bitcoin and cash (and or cash equivalents), so there can become some desires to get into some other kinds of assets so that some of your reserves might be working for you, but they are not exactly in cash and they might not be easily available, maybe taking a bit of time to get to, but they might be something that is dipped into prior to dipping into bitcoin, especially if the person is still accumulating bitcoin or not quite in the stage to start to be drawing upon his bitcoin (which could be maintenance stage or maybe it is a form of accumulation stage that is not quite as aggressive as it had been in the earliest of years of accumulating BTC, such as maybe in the first 4-6 years or so).


There could be circumstances in which a person may have overly accumulated bitcoin and/or is receiving income in bitcoin such as providing goods, services or even engaged in mining in which a lot of income comes in bitcoin... yet I personally consider those situations to be be more exceptions rather than more common categories of folks who largely need to be considering ways to accumulate bitcoin and/or at the same time to make sure that s/he has a certain amount that s/he keeps in fiat in order to pay weekly/monthly expenses.

O.k..

Let's focus on the old foggie for a bit.. The old foggie who is contemplating whether or not to get into bitcoin, and so, there should be some kind of an expectation that s/he is not going to need the money for 4-10 years or longer, so yeah, the bottom end of that is 4 years, and so how much to invest could be 5% to 25% of his/her investment portfolio.. yet, that may well be lump sum rather than DCA, but if there is a DCA approach, then every time any new DCA investment is made, then the presumption would be that the investment timeline is 4-10 years after any new amount that is investment.

it does not make any sense to expect to take 2 years to invest and to establish his/her position, unless the investment timeline is at least 6 years, since the end of that investment timeline would then have 4 years from the last time that money is injected.

Sure in the end folks can do whatever they like, but it seems that regular investing into bitcoin should be a 4-10 year or longer timeline, and if any person cannot achieve that (perhaps due to age and/or health considerations) then the person may well be gambling rather than investing.

I understand that a more elderly person (maybe in his 60s or 70s) might come into something like bitcoin with a 4-6 year or longer investment timeline, but then maybe some emergencies end up happening (healthwise) that end up causing the investment timeline to be shorter than originally anticipated, and presumably anyone coming into bitcoin in his 60s or 70s has already established various kinds of investment and may well already have various kind of income (or investments that he might already be drawing upon), so a person can still afford to consider that s/he has other sources of income and decide to invest into bitcoin as a kind of supplement (or complement) to other investment sources and still expect that s/he would be drawing upon other income sources, prior towards needing to dip into or to start to draw from bitcoin as an income source, and surely that timeline could still be 4-10 years or longer, even if the person might be higher in age with some uncertainties in regards to health.

Just because a decent number of folks behind bitcoin futures want to use such instruments to "tame bitcoin" does not mean that they are going to be successful, and from time to time even if they have success, they may well find themselves on the wrong side of the trade.. and yeah, if they do not have a sufficient amount of bitcoin, then it is going to cost them a lot of dollars (that they might not have) to attempt to balance out their accounts... so yeah, they may well be playing with fire and surely getting burnt from time to time, even though they are not going to tell us the times that they get burnt because sometimes they are going to be able to cover up such lack of actual bitcoin exposure...

I personally am more than happy to be holding the underlying, even though from time to time, it may be manipulated more downwardly than what fair market value would otherwise dictate.. and probably in the end, the fucktwat downward manipulators talk a BIGGER game than  they are actually able to carry out in terms of their fantasy landia desires to "tame" bitcoin including perhaps even creating some preferences for folks to make sure they hold the underlying.. especially if some BIG rug pulls end up playing out, some of the paper bitcoin twats may well will have wished that they held the underlying.. we already saw variations of that theme play out in 2022. and yeah, some of those guys got reimbursed or are being told that they are going to get reimbursed.. but even look the FTX BTC holders, what are they going to get?  perhaps bitcoin at $25k at best?.. that is hardly even close to current BTC prices.. and those folks have not even been reimbursed yet.. they just are experiencing promises of future reimbursement.. like the Gox folks who are getting around less than 20% of their BTC quantity, but their forced HODL still likely results in around 70x or so price appreciation (I don't have the exact numbers in front of me.. though the point still shows advantages in holding the underlying rather than waiting upon third parties and regulators are going to decide to employ reimbursements for historical rug pulls.. with the outcomes continuing to have a decent amount of variance).

Yes.  There are potential advantages to actually having information asymmetry, yet we are still not going to know for sure if we were correct in terms of the information asymmetry that we feel that we have - even though surely some of us who have been in bitcoin 4-10 years may well feel some various levels of internal satisfaction in terms of the level to which our BTC holdings are already in decent amounts of profits with decent amounts of cushion in our profits.  Surely there also are likely some folks who have been in bitcoin for less than 4 years who also can feel a certain dynamic of being in profits - yet still there is some comfort that is felt by having a portfolio that is in profits... even if it is a shorter term holdings of bitcoin.

Actually regarding your other point about diversifying, I had not noticed that dumbass point prior to sending you a smerit.. so yeah, I wished I could pull it back since the idea of diversifying for the mere sake of diversifying makes hardly any sense without describing some kind of a context and justification why diversification would be any kind of an important point for anyone in their earlier stages of BTC accumulation.. ..

So maybe I am getting more and more irritated when I see members spouting out nonsense in regards to the value of diversification without providing some kind of an explanation why diversification is in need of accounting - unless someone is alreayd building some kind of a decent investment portfolio, then there might be some justification for diversification, but we don't know that as a general principle, we cannot presume a need for diversification, and likely we are more able to presume that an overwhelming number of persons already have hardly shit for any kind of investment, so diversification is not justified for those people either, including that 99% or so of the worlds population does not own any bitcoin, so I am not going to presume that they need to think about diversification when getting into bitcoin, absent that they might already be in some special category of person that already has various investments... which is not any kind of a reasonable presumption.. so the presumption shoudl be fuck diversification, unless and until there might be some reason to go down that path.


How could BTC not be in the earliest of stages of adoption if ONLY around 1% of the world's population has any kind of exposure to bitcoin.  If people knew about bitcoin they would actually hold some of it. So people hardly know shit about bitcoin, even if they might have heard the word.  Even people who own bitcoin may hardly have any clue about bitcoin except their presumption that bitcoin is some kind of a NGU technology.


Of course the recent approval and going live of the BTC spot ETF has contributed to certain number of wealthy people and institutions getting into bitcoin, but that still does not translate into the population all of a sudden becoming smart about bitcoin.  Yeah sure, there might be some folks newly coming into bitcoin based on their having had learned about bitcoin because of the BTC spot ETF approval.. but I doubt it is as great of a number of newly aware folks as you are presuming it to be.


You seem to be presuming too much in regards to your believing that suddenly the masses of people are aware of bitcoin and are buying it.   More likely bitcoin is being absorbed by fewer people through the ETFs and the ETFs are held by third parties and there are attacks upon bitcoin's self custody.. so yeah, you can still get bitcoin, but individuals are likely getting more and more priced out of bitcoin including getting dissuaded from buying bitcoin due to high transaction fees too... so you better be a pretty fucking smart person if you are going to figure out that you need to buy bitcoin and self-store your bitcoin which is not very many people who have figured that out, and yeah a lot of people will come to bitcoin and the prices are going to be much higher than they are now..

so in other words, bitcoin remains an asymmetric information kind of an investment in which you are going to be better off by both knowing about bitcoin and acting upon such knowledge  to buy bitcoin.. which truly does not seem to be happening in the ways that you seem to be presuming to be happening @Frankolala. We can agree to disagree if you want to continue to presume that normies know about bitcoin and are acting upon such knowledge to buy bitcoin.

There are some contradictions and ambiguities in the way that you are posting about getting started in bitcoin Ricardo11.

I doubt that anyone who is brand new to bitcoin needs to get too worked up about his/her entry point, especially since the presumption would be that someone who is brand new to bitcoin does not have any bitcoin, so therefore getting started would mean getting started by starting to buy bitcoin and perhaps figuring out some personal financial and psychological aspects rather than trying to figure out things related to BTC price moves or maybe even trying to figure out more technical aspects of bitcoin.  Surely it can take people a decently long time to learn about bitcoin, so maybe to get started there might need to be some kind of initial belief that bitcoin is a good investment.. yet I have my doubts about that too.. since anyone should be able to adjust the size of his/her initial investment into bitcoin based on not having much knowledge and/or confidence in the beginning, yet learning more about bitcoin along the way so then as knowledge increases, more comfort might come towards investing more into bitcoin..

so then again, surely we have an issue that already exists with so many people not having any price exposure to bitcoin, so there are likely way more people who just need to get started in their investment journey into bitcoin and to study it as they go.. especially with something that is so likely to be promising like bitcoin and with so many people either having no exposure at all or maybe just a little bit of price exposure... so yeah, no coiners and or low coiners wait to your own peril.. and if you are already in bitcoin and you are suggesting that they wait rather than jumping in, you are not really helping them in terms of what they likely should be figuring out to do.. even while each person is responsible for his/her own finances and price exposure to something like bitcoin... which is that the only way to prepare for the possibility of UP prices in bitcoin is to have some BTC rather than waiting and/or studying the matter or trying to be overly strategic in terms of the need to just get started and at least to get some while studying the matter - or run the risk of just waiting and coming to bitcoin much later when bTC prices are likely to be much higher than they are now.. even though yeah, none of us knows exactly about the future prices of bitcoin.

Your earlier pushup report had an extra space between "100k," and "promise444c5;" therefore, the script of DirtyKeyboard was not able to pick up the substantive information contained in that earlier pushup report and add it to the pushups' table.  On the other hand, the format of your pushup report from today looks correct.

These are not bad points JiiBs, and there can be benefits in terms of attempting to measure and/or value various kinds of assets, and even differing kinds of assets are giong to comparable features and they will have differing features.. so I am not sure about all of the categories of evaluating the value of assets, since surely folks will see differing attributes of assets differently, and sometimes we might also make errors in terms of how we value something and whether we might account for certain aspects of how it is valued.. Maybe some examples of how to evaluate the value of assets might be in order even though many of us already likely employ some of these:

1) how liquid is the asset - meaning how easy to get in and out and how many places can you accomplish such

2) physicality - can be a advantage or a disadvantage - whether we are referring to physical properties (real estate and/or location, location, location), commodities such as gold, silver or oil, or something that is digital (which is not physical)

3) the extent to which an asset stores value - or is being used in that kind of a way (and is it very efficient in the way that it stores value - and upon what kind of a timeline is the value expected to be stored and/or extracted) - depreciating in value or increasing in value

4) does the asset have various utility value.. such as gold being used in industry or jewelry or bitcoin being used to move value or transact over time and space. These can be considered as utility aspects of the value of an asset

5) expected future value of an asset - we may or may not be able to measure this accurately - or some folks can measure better than others, and surely there could be pay-offs for folks who end up being more correct in their assessements - to the extent that they act upon their assessments

6) can the asset be consumed or does it hold its value or depreciate over time based on various market forces

7) how much regulation is involved with such asset - and or burdens of regulation, taxes, governmental monitoring

there might be some subjective and/or objective ways that assets are valuated - and of course, the subjective ways are ways that some individuals might value something greater than others based on sentiments yet objective value is more likely to contribute to market value in terms of how others value the asset - and of course, these can change over time in the sense that some folks might not realize bitcoin to have value in 2010-2012 because hardly anyone except the geeks actually had any clue about what bitcoin is.. but then the more than bitcoin is around, the more people hear about various ways that it is being used and can be used.

9) financialization of assets - when the asset starts to be used through various kinds of financially designed instruments that have terms to ownership - and surely as we know sometimes may well end up requiring 3rd-party custody in terms of the way the financialize products are designed

10)  Likely other kinds of ways that assets could be evaluated for their value that I had not considered off the top of my head

I just went through these categories off the top of my head and surely I am not claiming to have had made a comprehensive list of ways that assets are valuated or even to have had selected categories of valuation that are exclusive from one another, since sometimes the categories of valuation do seem like they overlap in various ways.. and also, I do not proclaim that the value of assets are necessarily stuck in time.. since sometimes assets might have complementary characteristics and/or may not substitute for other assets.. so some assets may in some ways correlate to the value of other assets or sometimes not correlate very closely.. or even inversely correlate.  

With bitcoin we have a kind of phenomena in which many of us proclaim that the value of so many already existing asset classes have become corrupted by various dollar (and fiat) influences, and sure bitcoin is not completely exempted from such corrupting influences, yet bitcoin has some in-built mechanisms of soundness and scarcity that attempt to bring alternative resolutions to the wide-spread corruption of fiat and debt-based systems (in attempts to create more sound incentive systems that are less manipulatable as compared to supply of fiat money systems) - while at the same time bitcoin is not completely detached from fiat money system, since fiat money systems continue to exist along the side of bitcoin so it might be observed that bitcoin has various kinds of interrelation within those already existing fiat value systems while hopefully having enough independence in order to not be so correlated to (or able to become as corrupted by) those debt-based systems to that hopefully bitcoin is going to end up having greater values based on some of its abilities to bring more responsibility (better incentives) to seemingly out of control and negatively spiraling existing systems of value.  


For sure it is better for beginner and more newbie investors to consider various ways to make sure that they have their emergency funds, reserves and float in fiat (and not in investible and/or working assets), yet at some point, when a person has acquired a certain higher level of wealth, the amount of fiat that it might take to support himself in an emergency may well end up being a very small portion of his overall wealth, so it becomes less important that such more wealthy person needs to preoccupy himself in terms of how much cash that he may well hold versus having his various assets continuing to be in various "working" forms...

Even within the context of achieving "higher levels of wealth," there would be differences between someone who has wealth that is in the 10-20x the size of his annual income/expenses versus someone who has wealth in the range of 100x to 200x his annual income/expenses... and yeah, maybe some of this is unrealistic to even be exploring the ideas of how extremely rich folks end up having more options in regards to how they manage their wealth - yet the idea of having excessive wealth makes it less important to have to follow specific rules of having to keep a certain amount of value in fiat, even though maybe incidentally very wealthy folks may have a variety of ways to draw upon their wealth in different kinds of forms because sometimes when reaching certain high levels of wealth there still ends up being some tendencies to keep some wealth in less volatile forms.. that might even be 1-2 years worth of income/expenses that are kept in ways that could be more easily drawn upon - and yeah, maybe even some rich folks like to live on the edge - and not preserve some kind of a cash/cash equivalent cushion, and even very wealthy folks might some times end up managing their wealth poorly and get themselves into situations in which they might be suffering from some lack of liquidity and then have to sell certain assets at a time that is not convenient based on their engaging in sloppy wealth management.. but again, maybe it does not matter too much if the person has wealth in the range of 100x to 200x his annual income/expenses, but at the same time, sometimes changes in the value of some assets (and extreme volatility) might drop precipitously and so maybe someone with wealth in the ballpark of 100x to 200x his annual income - all of a sudden might find himself with lower levels of wealth because some of his assets lost value at the same time and then all of a sudden he might find himself with having wealth that is ONLY 25x to 40x of his income/expenses and finding himself considering ways to deal with that lower level of wealth (at least on paper) since he still might not want to overly have to sell working assets (such as bitcoin) at a time that those assets are in price dips..and yeah if several assets drop 50% to 80% in a relatively short period of time, even very wealthy folks may well have to make some short-term adjustments including considering why they had gotten themselves into such a situation that they were not managing their wealth very well..

And, yeah, wealthy folks have way more options to not get completely reckt, while at the same time, if a relatively poor person or someone who is in the earlier stages of building his wealth who may have less than 1-2 years worth of income/expenses in his investment portfolio, such lower level wealth persons might become completely reckt by engaging in sloppy investment practices including but not limited to failing/refusing to keep their emergency fund, reserves and float in fairly liquid cash forms... which may seem like a burden and may even seem as if some of their wealth is not working enough for them, but there is a difference between having a decent amount of your wealth working for you and engaging in kinds of gambling that fail/refuse to adequately maintain funds in cash so that actual working portions of your investment portfolio (which may well ONLY be bitcoin for a large number of newbies who are in their earlier stages of attempting to build wealth) can stay invested even during down periods and perhaps being able to continue to buy bitcoin through good and bad times, and worse case scenario if the poor person is not able to continue to buy bitcoin, at least if they are not forced to sell any at a inopportune and downity times in the BTC prices.. that could last 3-6 months or even could last for a couple of years or more..


You are not wrong Kliss, since each of us has to figure out how much of our emergency funds, reserves and/or float to keep in cash versus if we are wanting to have some of it working, yet I think that you are defeating the purpose if you are trying to overly get your reserves and your float to be working for you.. since if you think about it, reserves and float are conceptualized to be cash/cash equivalents and their size may well vary.. surely your emergency fund might be 3-6 months but never used in 20-30 years of having it and maintaining it, since your float and your reserves may well end up absorbing any kind of cash-flow inconsistencies, surprises, miscalculations or even emergencies (or quasi-emergencies) that may come up from time to time, so the level to which any of us runs out of cash and/or our cash cushion, then the more we might end up being forced to cash out of some or all of our bitcoin at a time that is not completely of our own choosing.. ..

so we might not even realize that we had gotten ourselves into a pickle until we are finding out after a few months of suffering cashflow issues and then coming close to exhausting our various funds that we did not have enough funds in cash to deal with the situation and then if after a few months of exhausting our cash, we then have some additional unexpected expenses or loss of income, then where are we?  We may well be at a place of having to sell some or all of our bitcoin and perhaps totally wrecking a plan of building our BTC holdings that we may well might have been employing for 4 years or longer and then we find ourselves having to start over again, but instead of starting out with BTC price being X, we find ourselves restarting and BTC prices are 5x or 10x higher than X.... so yeah.. where are we at that point?  We failed/refused to adequately/sufficiently prepare ourselves to not get reckt.. and we had ended up gambling too much, even though we thought that we were being sufficiently prudent and sufficiently cautious.... but we did not realize that we ended up not being prepared for what ended up happening... and these are not easy balances for any of us to make, especially since we are NOT going to realize that we had not been sufficiently prepared until it is too late... but each of us has to make these kinds of balances and hope that we are sufficiently aggressive in our bitcoin investment, but not overdoing our BTC investment so much that we end up wrecking ourselves a few years down the road.


The only way emergency funds should be used in terms of investment is if they happen to be excessive, and surely some folks might be labeling all of their extra funds as emergency funds, and part of their emergency funds might be reserves and/or float but they are labeling such as emergency funds.

So yeah there can be questions regarding how much emergency funds a person needs to build up.. and if someone is brand new to investing and brand new to consciously paying attention to building and maintaining an emergency fund, then the emergency fund might start out relatively small.. maybe just by coincidence normal people might keep a kind of float of 2-4 weeks of their expenses worth of extra cash that is kind of considered to be used for any any extra expenses that might come about.. but then once they start to invest into something like bitcoin, they realize that they are likely going to need to keep larger amounts, such as 3-6 months worth of emergency fund, but they are not necessarily going to get their emergency fund up to that size immediately, so they end up building up their bitcoin investment and their emergency fund at the same time.. and surely once they get their emergency fund up to a certain size (such as a minimum of 3 months), then they might begin to feel that they have more abilities to be aggressive in their BTC accumulations (adding to their BTC holdings) or even to use some of the excess (greater than 3 months amounts) for the purposes of investing into bitcoin or other kinds of purposes.. but yeah, if they are barely floating on keeping ONLY 3 months as emergency funds that are not touched for any reason except actual emergencies, they may well find that they are not keeping enough emergency funds since sometimes various expenses can come at the same time and quickly eat into such relatively lower level amounts of financial cushion... .so yeah in the end, there becomes more and more need to keep some funds in cash that never get touched because otherwise the depletion of such extra cash ends up putting the person closer and closer to having to dip into his bitcoin investment that might be at a time that is not at his own choosing.


I think that it is very weird to be failing refusing to consider reserves in terms of fiat, unless there are some folks who truly are able to spend all of their expenses in bitcoin.. or if maybe they have so much bitcoin that they are willing to just take the chances of keeping all of their value in bitcoin (presuming they earn in bitcoin), and so these seem to be less common kinds of circumstances, and there is a certain level of healthiness to considering holding and/or converting value into fiat.. since even if some expenses might be payable in bitcoin, they are likely calculated in terms of fiat.. so it does not even seem very realistic that we are considering some of the exceptional cases in which some few folks might completely earn in bitcoin and are able to spend in bitcoin and they just let bitcoin's volatility go where it goes, especially if they are already getting all of their income in bitcoin..

These folks are more specialized and not really representational to be discussing in terms of being applicable to general threads like this.. so maybe their situations should be discussed in other threads that pertain to those special kinds of situations that are far from representative to the circumstances of an overwhelming number of folks, including that probably somewhere close to 99% of the world's population does not have any BTC (no coiners) or if they have some they have way too little (low coiners).  So it seems way more relevant to be trying to address the overwhelming majority of folks who need to get more coin and to figure out ways to build their BTC holdings instead of the more rare folks who have enough or more than enough BTC that ends up putting them into more of a special category rather than being representative of the situations of the overwhelming majority of the population who are low coiners or no coiners.


This is starting to sound like a person who is overly accumulated in bitcoin, and surely even such persons who are overly accumulated in bitcoin may well be better served to make sure that they keep 3-6 months or more in cash and/or cash equivalents - yet surely each person is free to figure out his own balances, and surely if s/he is over allocated in bitcoin, then his/her situation does not sound very typical . but it still seems like there are likely better ways to balance their accounting and even to improve the value retention of their own wealth by keeping some value in cash, cash equivalents or in forms that are something other than bitcoin (not referring to shitcoins.. but yeah, sometimes people with unusual circumstances might well be better served to have some of their value in shitcoins than to have 100% in bitcoin).. even though typically, I would jnot recommend keeping more than 10% of the value of bitcoin in shitcoins, there could be some special circumstances that justify other kinds of balances, and yeah, each person is responsible for his own trade-offs. and not wanting to derail too much into discussing how to weigh shitcoin allocations.. since there is likely enough challenges in terms of merely considering the balances of bitcoin versus cash allocations..


First: Some of the calculations regarding the extent to which BTC is profitable may or may not be applicable to some folks who are either earning in bitcoin or maybe they had been in bitcoin for so long that they have costs per BTC that are way lower than any likely price that BTC might end up going.. so the level of profitability may well not be very much of an issue for some folks who are considering holding most if not all of their value in bitcoin (including their emergency fund, reserves and/or float) and then spending their bitcoin from whatever point that they might need (or want) to spend them.

Second:  I am not sure what purpose you had in terms of mentioning "crypto" markets.  Why should we give any shits about shitcoins?  Do you not know we are talking about bitcoin?  Is there some kind of a need to use the term "crypto" while referring to discussions about bitcoin and perhaps you really meant to say something about bitcoin?  Probably there is no need to use the term crypto, since the use of the term "crypto" might have been meant to talk beyond bitcoin, but you did not specify what you meant when throwing that term into the discussion.. so in some sense the use of the term crypto seemed to have had devolved the discussion into a kind of obscurity, vagueness and potentially misleading some of us in terms of what are we talking about here?  Do you believe that there is such a thing as "crypto" markets?  what kind of a product would I buy if I were buying into "crypto" markets?  Yeah, I know that people use such vague terms all the time, but it does not seem very helpful to refer to something like "crypto" without suggesting what is meant by such a term, especially when we had been talking about bitcoin.

Third:  when you say standard of living is volatile, you likely are referring to the ongoing debasement of various fiat currencies that may well be affecting a lot of ways that value is perverted.. or many times debased for regular folks.

Well, I had some variation of three propositions that I would be willing to bet - even though I am not super confident regarding various scenarios in which my bitcoin dynamic ideas will not end up playing out.

1) BTC spot prices not dropping below 20% above the 200-WMA prior to the end of 2025..

surely you showed some weaknesses in my ideas.. and yeah 18 months is a long time for the BTC price to not go below that level.. but it still seems bettable, even though surely my odds might not be as great as I think (which is merely my thinking that my odds are slightly better than 50/50 for such).

2) BTC ATH price is higher in 2025 than in 2024 -

yes you do not like this one, even though it seem that a few posts back you were spouting out some scenarios in which you seemed to be suggesting that 2025 might not have higher prices than 2024.

3) BTC spot prices to reach somewhere between $120k and $180k and potentially consolidate in that range in 2024 -

You did not make any comment on that idea.. and yeah it might not be a good bet for you since in order for me to win, all I would need is one time in which the BTC price went over $120k in 2024.. so there might need to be some other condition to attempt to entice you into taking the opposite of this one.


I would like to bet you on that one.  There is no way that you would bet such dumbness assertion (meaning you are not even willing to stand behind your statement).

You are not really wrong in anything you say.. and I think that the main point is attempting to understand that there are advantages in knowing the difference in order to potentially take advantage of the differences and attempt to figure out whether you might want to vary your own application based on the options that are available to you.

For example, if you already have a formula that you are going to spend a certain percentage of your newly incoming discretionary income (for example 33% of your newly incoming money is going to be spent on buying bitcoin right away, 33% is going to be set aside for buying dips and 33% is going to be set aside for float and/or reserves - presuming your emergency fund is already in place), then whether you receive higher amounts of money or not is not really going to make a difference because you already have a system that you are following (and yeah, you can also vary your system too in order to account for things happening with the price, the size of your BTC stash and other things going on in your life that also might relate to the 9 individual factors).

Many times folks like to juxtapose ideas of lump sum investing versus DCA, so yeah, you could be a brand new investor and you have $50k that is already saved up in various investments, so if you tell yourself that you want to have 15% of your investment portfolio invested into bitcoin, then that may well mean taking $7,500 from your other investments and investing it into bitcoin.. which surely might be a kind of lump sum investing. and then maybe you wait 1-2 years and then decide what you are going to do.

Some people are really in the practice of lump sum investing, so then frequently when they do it, they try to time their lump sum investment for a price dip, so they end up employing a kind of hybrid tactic, and maybe they are not realy interested in a DCA way of investing.. but they are timing their lump sum buys with attempts to buy dips.. which may or may not end up working out as well for them..  but if they might have a deadline for themselves that they are investing their lump sum within a certain period of time or under certain conditions, then that might be the way that they think about investing into bitcoin.

I frequently like to give examples of lump sum investments to be a way that a guy might invest into bitcoin, and that at the same time he supplements with DCA investing - so yeah in those kinds of cases we might imagine a person who receives bonuses or some somewhat surprise quantities of money 2-3 times a year, and with those extra amounts that come in, there can come opportunities for creativity that could include any of the three strategies in terms of how to treat those extra amounts, so maybe his regular DCA is right around $100 per week, but if he gets $3k 2 or 3 times per year, he may well have flexibility in terms of which category to put the money and if he adds to his DCA, maybe he creates a buying on dip fund (if he does not have any buying on dip fund in place) and maybe he also might decide to lump sum buy some BTC right away when that money comes in with a portion of it, whether it is 1/4 of it? or maybe 1/3 of it, or maybe 1/2 of it or maybe some other amount that makes sense after he assessed various aspects of his finances/psychology and his 9 factors.

Yeah sure maybe it does not make a lot of sense, but the market is likely showing us that there is a certain kind of appetite for a product that seems inferior to holding bitcoin directly, and at the same time, there are individuals and institutions who are looking at these matters through fiat lenses and comparing their investment opportunities/options to other fiat investment opportunities that they have.. so gosh, if self-custody is so much outside of places that they are ready, willing and/or able to go, then there can seem to be a bit of irrationality in terms of their investment choices that cause prices also to be irrational for longer than anyone might consider viable.. .. .. and in this regard, we might be considering some kind of market movement dynamic to be irrational, but we have not quite understood the mindset of some of the investors who are making such choices (whether they are irrational or not, but they might be eliminating some seemingly rational considerations based on their own perceptions of their financial and/or psychological limitations).

I am not going to claim to exactly what motivates some of these folks because I am not from their world.. and also I am not easily able to put myself into their world including not really knowing which kinds of assets that already exist in their investment portfolio and some of the other motivating factors that they might have that may even have some gambling inclinations or maybe some going with "what others are doing" inclinations.....and for these folks, maybe bitcoin-related products are more "in-trend" than bitcoin itself.

For me, some sessions are much harder than others, and even if I do my pushups in front of someone else, sometimes I can get distracted in my breathing and my focus. and then I feel that I cannot do as many, so there can be something in the focus, but then at the same time the consistency is going to create greater strength and abilities so that even with distractions we are able to do more than we were able to do previously.

Also, sometimes after I eat or if I do some other activity, I might feel a lot of difficulties to do the pushups, and I imagine some other members have their differing obstacles, even though surely I think that younger people will not necessarily have as many obstacles... but recently I have had a friend frequently touching my chest and my arms, and so that did not really happen before, so there is something that becomes a lot more alluring when someone is able to hold a better posture but the definition of the muscles come out better, even though sometimes we feel that we look the same, but it does not take a lot of difference in order to make a difference in terms of someone feeling the muscle under the skin rather than just feeling a kind of blob of fat or whatever lacking of definition might have previously existed underneath the skin.

100k,JayJuanGee,130,25430,2024-06-13

It seems that many of us disclosed that we had started out with relatively low quantities of pushups per set, and maybe even very few pushup sets each day, so I had not been doing pushups for many years, even though I had been doing weight lifting (from time to time) and even some other kinds of cardio exercises, when I started to do pushups, I was not very used to doing them and I was getting very very sore from doing them, so I just consistently did the pushups every day, tried to spread them out so that I would not get too sore and I also tried to not overdoing it while at the same time p;ushing myself to keep improving in terms of my quantity of pushups.. so yeah, my initial goals was to increase my quantity of pushups and to be able to keep doing them every day and then to just attempt to measure the extent to which I was personally improving.. so it was not easy, and I think some other members had similar levels of ongoing soreness and tiredness but still sometimes striving towards keeping on doing the pushups on a fairly regular basis.. if not daily for several of us.

Sure some of the guys might have come to the thread with more pushup experiences, but truly I think many of us have been doing these pushups in ways that are new to us and many of us are breaking our own personal records to keep doing pushups for so long, even if some guys are merely doing 50 pushups per day or some quantity of pushups that is less than 100 pushups per day, it still may well end up being a kind of activity that they had not been in the practice of doing previously.

So you might be similar to several of us. and maybe it is just a matter of continuing to do the pushups in order to build up your quantities, even if you are only able to do around 10 pushups at a time, if you spread them out and continue to do the pushups, then it is likely that you will end up increasing your quantity  and getting better at doing the pushups, even if you might also have periods of feeling tired and getting ongoingly sore too.  It will be nice to hear about your progress and if you are able to continue to do pushups regularly and report your progress here like several of us are doing.