The advantage of applying immersion cooling is mostly spatial.
Which really is a function of where you want to situate your data center and that typically would be established as a function of energy costs and real estate costs. I believe it was already established that immersion cooling was not a cost effective solution so it's interest other than novelty would have one conclude it has little bearing on future AM operations. If you already have tanks full of Novec use it but IMHO KNC took the more cost effective approach. 10 times more space and 30% extra electricity is not cheap. |
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The advantage of applying immersion cooling is mostly spatial [1]: it saves space by allowing a very high energy (hashing) density, and it loosens the constraints on where the miner rigs can be deployed. However, space doesn't seem to be a bottleneck as of now, but it might be in the (near) future. With immersion cooling the cost of the cooling fluids will become a nonnegligible (if not major) part of the whole operation, a consistent and calculated design of the PCB boards and the metal cooling tanks can minimize the consumption of cooling fluids and thus reduce costs. So, there's a lot of work to do other than manufacturing efficient hashing chips. [1] Google data centers can achieve a PUE (Power Usage Effectiveness) of less than 1.06 [2], so I don't think a PUE of of less than 1.02 [3] achieved with immersion cooling is spectacularly impressive. [2] https://www.google.com/about/datacenters/efficiency/internal/[3] http://www.allied-control.com/publications/Full_Version_Bitcoin_2-Phase_Immersion_Cooling_and_the_Implications_for_HPC.pdfSaving 5% on electricity is definitely important for any large datacenter and the methods google uses to cool are very extreme and expensive. The average datacenter would save something like 20% on electricity costs in addition to the high density as you mentioned. |
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2. do you have R&D to build a safety measurement system
I have plenty of time to r&d but not much funds.
Would a pressure releif valve and temp monitoring be good enough?
I would say temp monitoring and water pressure of the coolant loop monitoring are very doable. As your design would be open, you will just lose Novec liquid if it build up pressure. My design would be closed. Basically allied controls design with a lid. Why would you need it open? |
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2. do you have R&D to build a safety measurement system
I have plenty of time to r&d but not much funds.
Would a pressure releif valve and temp monitoring be good enough?
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How would I deal with the vapor pressure?
How can I maintain a safe psi or ratio of gas to liquid?
I am afraid that the gas might not condense quick enough and build up pressure/explode with a closed system.
And with an open system I am afraid too much vapor will escape (shits expensive)
What pressure? They are not pressurized. There are a lot of design issues to do this. 1. Do you have a board that is designed to be housed in the system? 2. Do you have system for the board? You would at this stage have the Engineer do the calculation so you are not building a BOMB. 3. Do you have a cooling system designed? 4. Do you have a racking system designed? The pressure from evaporating liquid? 1. I am under the impression that any board would work with novec or something similar. 2. What do you mean exactly? I have not build anything I am just conceptualizing. 3. My idea is similar to this: http://www.allied-control.com/publications/Immersion_Cooling_Concept_Xeon_Phi_Poster_WEB.pdf4. No, but how hard can it be? |
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How would I deal with the vapor pressure?
Basically how can I maintain a safe psi or ratio of gas to liquid?
I am afraid that the gas might not condense quick enough and build up pressure/explode with a closed system.
And with an open system I am afraid too much vapor will escape (shits expensive)
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http://trilema.com/2013/so-whats-the-plan-with-mpoempex/Interesting read from mr popescu. Highly recommended if you are a fan of science fiction. Includes some great quotes such as: I believe that on an ongoing basis being listed on MPEx will be the most valuable intangible asset available to any BTC company The MPEx registration fee has been in my estimation very successful at selecting high quality, competent and intelligent investors, the sort of which a company benefits from MPEx will continue to promote the correct view of BTC, as a game currency not in any significant way different from any other game currency.
This stance can not be changed through Internet chatter, mass delusion no matter how widespread or court rulings, whatever jurisdiction they may be issued in. I intend to slowly sell the remainder 40% of non-controlling S.MPOE interest that I currently own, during the course of the next 3 to 5 years. if I consider the general Bitcoin community is both strong enough and competent enough, I will sell S.MPOE controlling interest (50% + the voting share) to a group of credible investors, with a credible plan in place, through a proper auction much like what you’d see if the Russian government sold its Gazprom (minus, of course, all the graft). Should this ever occur (and to look at the forum digests I receive you’d think it absolutely never will) I will consider this little experiment a complete success, as far as I’m concerned (not that there’s much to complain as it is). A closed deal, a second retirement for me personally.
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Do yourself a favour and wait
How did that work out for bitfunder? You are going to be waiting a long time at dannys rate. And you don't find it suspicious that danny all of the sudden became rich after launching this company? New house, new bently, new mercedes, 400btc of "his own" money stuck in mtgox. Also most of that "speculative FUD" you dismissed earlier has now been confirmed. Here is a quote from neobee staff
1. You did not sell majority of the bitcoins beginning of October. It contradicts your earlier statements. Evidence needed, and convenient lack of evidence because of MtGox is laughable.
2. You quickly packed your belongings and left. Yes, I'm sure you left your daughter behind, but that only reflects poorly on you as a father.
3. You made no good faith effort to contact your personal creditors to whom you sold bitcoins to, and acted as a custodian.
4. You claim to have hired or intention to hire a 'forensic accountant' to prove your innocence. Why you would need a forensic accountant is beyond me. If you want me to, I'll publish the numbers you've been giving your employees. That will illuminate your incompetence.
ALL of your employees were very eager to help you and find the best solution to the problems arising in mid March. Although that was before we had time to go through every detail and create a clearer picture of your misconduct.
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Are you the copyright holder of that block of text? No? Than use a quote block.
would you care to elaborate why things look bad? I see a CEO that cares about his company enough to put his own money in, how is that 'bad'?
I see a classic bullshit delaying tactic as usual from danny. 50+ updates for bitfunder/weexchange and literally no information given or progress was made. 100+ updates with neobee and nothing was done besides spend all investors funds on advertising and a new house/bently (he expects us to believe it was his own funds?) How can you even say ge cares about the company when every cent of investor funds was wasted before launching and we are only made aware of the catastrophic failure after danny takes a surprise vacation and the company collapses? Please elaborate on where you got the idea that danny gives a shit. |
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2 phase inside the board side and a water block on the other. The novec is boiled and condensed changing phase on one side of the sealed unit. The others side removes heat with water rad system. If you have a mining board that conforms to a the Iceotope form factor it could be ready now. You would still need the server modular units though check this out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHHHYcdPFnQiceotope isnt 2-phase, theyre using the novec without boiling it (may as well be mineral oil). theyve got pumps and radiators inside each blade. makes no sense. ignoring the best bit of novec tech. Even if its not 2 phase I am interested in how they can unattach the server without leaking water. What is the name of magical this part?? |
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Lol, +1.
Obvious scam is obvious.
You should stop trading on their exchange and giving them money |
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To clear a few things up surrounding Neo & Bee, yes there are creditors to the business and I have not ran with any coins, we had made payments in excess of €1.4m with many of the coins being converted to Euros before the run up in price, the largest amount converted at once was the day Silkroad was busted, I had to take the decision on that given day to convert them or risk them becoming pretty worthless and the business not getting off the ground. It's easy to say in hindsight that he obviously shouldn't have sold on the silk road day, how ever at the time, if he was thinking that bitcoin was going to be 'pretty worthless' then Neo and Bee would have been 'pretty wothlesss'. So he might as well have waited and not panic sold. It would be nice to have some proof of these conversions as it would help quell some of the scam accusations. The decision to do one of the biggest marketing campaigns Cyprus has ever seen was also questionable, Considering it's a small Island, why not rely on word of mouth for a while until you at least got the software working. He says 1.4 million euros spent when btc was at $100-150. That would be around 10,000 of the 12,000 btc raised. Add the 1400 lost in bitfunder and neobee should have a total of 600btc leftover from the 12,000 btc raised. Can't wait for that financial report we were promised. |
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Im confused how that system works.
Is it 2-phase? If so where is the condenser?
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Saw it but it looks somewhat inefficient/inpractical. It looks like that massive fishtank is only cooling something like 100W worth of bitfuries. And would novec 7000 be the best fluid? I would think it would not be optimal with such a low boiling point. Wouldn't it require much colder water to condense the vapor? Not sure how well it would work on hot summer days. |
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If you want to heat your house then not so practical. To be efective hot water that enters the heaters must have high temperature like 65C and more. And with immersion cooling you want to cool chips with liquids with boiling point below 40C. To warm up water for bathing then it may work with liquids with boiling point at ~50C. My 2 cents.
This would be for 1kw+ systems so that would probably be too much for a heater. I am wondering if a scaled down version of allied controls system would work. (Water cooled condenser and outdoor radiator) |
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SP30 chips, in tapeout now Last I heard tapeout was beginning of may. Has this changed? |
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Cointerra is 28nm and 1.2w/gh at the wall.
Knc 28nm is more than 1w/gh and neptunes are expected to be 0.6w/gh at the wall. And neptunes are not shipping for at least 2 months.
0.8 w/gh at the wall is good but not as good as we hoped. But it is likely they can squeeze some more efficiency out of these chips.
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Priority: Undetermined
Name: "H" Whiteface
Form Factor Dimensions: 225 x 400
Cooling: 2-Phase Cooling Engineering Test Sample
Chip Count: 32
Chip Type: QFN
Base Speed: 7.5 GH/s
Schematic: Proposed based on "H" Hornet
Firmware Stage: Proposed
Chips Ordered: 100
Lead EE: Undetermined H is hammer asic correct? And can you give more details about the 2 phase immersion cooling? Also has the BE200 been tested yet? |
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How do you know we are still in a gold rush? We have idiots forking over thousands of dollars for something they know nothing about with the hopes of making it rich. When else does someone put down that kind of cash without any research? I could answer your questions in a good details ...if you are really interested in 100k investment in Bitcoin mining... Just based on the immaturity/ignorance of his posts I would guess he doesn't actually have $100k to his name let alone to spend. |
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