|
So how much is the final compensation? $1500?
|
|
|
|
So you're suggesting we'll build huge farms and pre-mime ourselves on customers hardware before shipping it like Bitmaintech ?
mmm. Let me think about it. Let's say I want to produce 5,000 SP31 in December (just an example, not a real batch number)
I'll need a 15MW farm.
Ok, I'm convinced we'll build it. But if we're building 15MW, why not build 150MW?
Why do I need to sell the miners?
I'll do more money by mining myself over few months.
I also think you should build a farm and sell from stock. If you are building your own farm you won't be able to afford a 150MW farm plain and simple. If you could, you wouldn't have had to take preorders in the first place. I'm cynical here myself.
Buying from any manufacturer with farm just hastened the centalrization of the network.
BitFury, KNC, Cointerra, Bitmaintech.
If one of those will think it got technology and cost advantage they'll stop selling and do only self mining. They're using hardware sell as a mean towards increasing their own farm percentage in the total network hash-rate.
Buying from any of the above is scrarifying the long term for short term gain.
Guy
I don't think buying from bitmain, cointerra, or knc is centralizing the network but that depends on your definition. Each of those companies is mining with less than 5% of the total hashrate which is perfectly safe. (I personally think bitfury at ~20% is not a problem but some might.) I think Dave Carlson has the right idea with his franchising program and I'm interested to hear how you will be responding to it. It's like self mining while spreading the hashrate. Bitmain is also a great example of how a company can have it's own giant farm and do hardware sales without a hitch. |
|
|
|
Is that just because you don't want to reship it once it comes to you?
That and because the buyer is in the EU so it would save on taxes by shipping from technobit. |
|
|
|
I thought the window to convert orders was closed. Or maybe the window ton pay with chips for conversion is closed? Something is closed.
I meant transfer my order for an assembled 400gh miner to another user. He said all he needed was a shipping address and I haven't heard back since. |
|
|
|
|
Anyone else getting completely ignored by bobsag?
I requested to transfer my order over a week ago and sent several reminders with no response. Even something as simple as "I'm extremely busy, it will be done within this week" would be fine with me but silence is worrying.
Didn't want to publically complain but I'm afraid PMs will get me nowhere.
|
|
|
|
You must think all franchisings are not for profit?
Having 50% of of a watermelon is still bigger than a whole 100% of a grape fruit. I'm sure they've made enough that capital isnt an issue so why didnt they put their own capital (afterall you said warehouse and operating cost is cheap) and gain 100% revenue?
Yes it's for profit but the franchising won't enable them to buy extra hardware (in the short run at least). If the hardware doesn't go to franchisees it will end up in a giant datacenter. My guess as to why they don't just build their own mine is that is would require tons of extra capital, time, effort and might be less profitable. |
|
|
|
dumbass, once the majority of mining equipment is made by one company, you're at the mercy of that company. You must think you're so smart and MBP is stupid huh?
You did take stupidity to another level.
Can you not see the difference between a single giant 20MW DC and a few hundred franchisees? There is no reason to offer a franchising program like this other than to spread the hashrate. I honestly can't fathom how you think MBP giving free hardware makes them greedy when they could keep it all for themselves. In case you didn't already know, bitfury/MBP doesnt need our help to increase their hashrate. MBP can easily build their own massive datacenters without selling/franchising a single miner to the public but they chose to go with the method that distributes the hashrate. But you will probably ignore all this because you seem set on the idea that anything that has to do with bitfury is bad. |
|
|
|
Everyone here is wrong. Franchising with megabigpower is clearly the way to go. https://megabigpower.com/infoYou get as much free hardware as you can power and get to keep 50% of the revenue. Their next gen hardware (guessing bitfury next gen chips) is now almost complete which they claim will be 0.5 w/gh at the wall. This seems like one of those too-good-to-be-true things. I would love to see some people who've used this service. LOL its actually not good. They take 50% of revenue, you have to pay operating cost. Add that with how quick the rigs depreciated compared to your capital (warehouse). The whole strategy here is to completely push manufacturing competitors out of business. They're doing nothing but centralize mining power. Btw, OP if you actually have to ask the question in the first post, you're looking at a wrong venture. I'm not sure you have a clue what you're talking about. Free hardware = good deal. Who cares if they take 50% of the revenue? It's free hardware.. You can build a 1MW DC for $100-200K and fill it with 2PH worth of their hardware (50% being yours). How can you possibly say $100-200K/PH is a bad deal? The next best deal is S3's at ~900k/PH. An S3 farm would use slightly less electricity usage once you factor in the extra 50% required with MBP franchising but it is not going to make an $800k difference. Also I think you should look up the meaning of centralization as the goal of the franchising programs is literally to promote the opposite. |
|
|
|
I don't know why anyone would buy/produce a1 miners when the chips are twice as expensive as BE200.
AM wasn't able to sell their inferior gen3 in China, this is why they reverted to self-mining and selling miners again. We're getting 2 requests each day from system integrators that currently using A1. Take a look at Discuss Fish growth Doesn't answer my question at all. Why is BE200 "inferior" despite being half the cost and equally efficient? And what do you mean they weren't able to sell in china? How much PH do you think AM sold? |
|
|
|
... MegaBigPower also runs some large DCs with BF chips ...
Rev1 only MBP currently has 10P worth of gen1 and claim that their next gen (0.5w/gh at the wall) is almost complete. I don't see bitfury building many more datacenters. They can easily double their hashrate when their next gen is ready. Mostly BitFury and Innosilicon.
Regarding the later, from the amount of ASICs requests we're getting from China, it seems that CoinCraft A1 is towards the end of it's life. Is this your guess or do you have a source? I don't know why anyone would buy/produce a1 miners when the chips are twice as expensive as BE200. |
|
|
|
BitFury doesn't open a new 20MW DC every month.
Both BitFury and Bitmaintech are at extremely low margins with their current tech.
Correct, they don't build one every month. They build one every two months. What makes you say that? They've only built one 20MW DC afaik. There seems to have been a pattern of datacenter deployment, the previous one was in georgia (I believe) and the last one in Iceland. There are currently 3 Bitfury DCs, Finland, Iceland and Georgia according to this article... http://www.datacenterknowledge.com/archives/2014/08/01/bitfury-asic-maker-builds-20mw-bitcoin-mining-data-center/And try here for more info... http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Bitfury+data+centers#Please take a second to re-read what I said. The article doesn't say they have 3 datacenters, it says they have datacenters in 3 countries. You cant possibly think that each datacenter is 20MW. That would add at least 60-80PH to the network. |
|
|
|
Everyone here is wrong. Franchising with megabigpower is clearly the way to go. https://megabigpower.com/infoYou get as much free hardware as you can power and get to keep 50% of the revenue. Their next gen hardware (guessing bitfury next gen chips) is now almost complete which they claim will be 0.5 w/gh at the wall. |
|
|
|
BitFury doesn't open a new 20MW DC every month.
Both BitFury and Bitmaintech are at extremely low margins with their current tech.
Correct, they don't build one every month. They build one every two months. What makes you say that? They've only built one 20MW DC afaik. There seems to have been a pattern of datacenter deployment, the previous one was in georgia (I believe) and the last one in Iceland. What pattern you are talking about? Do you know the size of the Iceland DC? Or the size of their previous DCs? |
|
|
|
BitFury doesn't open a new 20MW DC every month.
Both BitFury and Bitmaintech are at extremely low margins with their current tech.
Correct, they don't build one every month. They build one every two months. What makes you say that? They've only built one 20MW DC afaik. |
|
|
|
http://cointelegraph.com/news/112329/gavin-andresens-fractional-reserve-mining-cloud-miners-respondIn response to Gavin Andresens claim that many cloudmining companies might be ponzis, genesis-mining goes out of their way to take a few pics to prove they are mining. (like any real company accused of being a ponzi would) However PBmining responds with a BS excuse as expected: “Gavin Andresen made some good points,” Jeremy Biggs of PB Mining said Tuesday night. “However, those points extend to every corner of the world of Bitcoin — a world where consumer protection is very hard to come by. We will continue to allow time itself to run its course of proving our trustworthiness in this market.” Is "jeremy biggs" living in a fantasy land where you cannot prove you are mining with a bitcoin address/farm pics? The same alternate reality where you pinpoint the location of a mining operation with nothing but a btc address? He basically says "we won't provide proof that we aren't a ponzi because everyone else is just as shady/scammy. We will just continue giving payouts to gain trust like every good ponzi.". He deliberately removes all forms of consumer protection and claims "that's just how the bitcoin ecosystem is". What he really means is that Gavin's points extend to every corner of the world of Bitcoin SCAMS, not real bitcoin companies. I don't know how anyone could believe this is a legit company.
|
|
|
|
Nice. Are the asic temps 85C? What are the normal temps? Do you plan on sending Allied Control a unit for testing 2 phase IC? I've always wondered how their systems compare. |
|
|
|
Seems like a BFL/KNC move that would cause an outrage.
With what money will their customers spend on next gen hardware when they will not ROI with their current sp30's?
I haven't put any money out of my pocket this year yet I have acquired numerous miners and I plan to buy more. It's also true that I have only cashed out around 60% of my initial investment, but I can cover the rest at any time with bitcoins. I am sure that the SP30s will help me keep acquiring more hashpower without any fiat payments from me. So? Who cares what currency you paid and how you made that money? What about your customers who aren't as fortunate as you? You can twist reality to fit your rhetoric as much as you want but it won't give the SP30 a better chance at ROI, only a ~$1500 refund or free ~2TH will. |
|
|
|
You know, this isn't exactly a bad idea.
All customers who bought SP30 would like to have best hashing hardware possible. Spondoolies has lots of expertise and little cash. Why ask them for cash? They will skimp about trying to distribute a cash refund. A cash refund will cause them to fire some staff and cut some capacity which could otherwise be converted into better future products.
What does Spondoolies have plenty of? Talent. Let them pay their shortcomings with something they have loads of. This way, they won't try to short anyone. They may even feel bad and give generously. They won't be giving cash generously.
So, compensation is probably better given in the form of future product rather than cash.
If I had to guess, I'd say you're the only one who thinks this way. Seems like a BFL/KNC move that would cause an outrage. With what money will their customers spend on next gen hardware when they will not ROI with their current sp30's? |
|
|
|
S3+ ROI: 180 days
SP31 ROI: 360 days If the difficulty will be just a bit better than in your projections then the SP31 is clearly a winner. I can't help noticing that after the so praised ROI the S3 is doing close to nothing, while the SP31 is still doing something. Also I can lower the power efficiency down to 0.58W/GH and doing that will help me earn more money after difficulty reaches 70 billion so getting ROI will be faster than in your projection. Care to share your projections which make the SP31 a winner? I can't find any scenario where that turns out to be the case. If you buy 5.5TH worth of S3's you will mine ~$1200 worth of bitcoins before SP31's even begin shipping. 5.5TH worth of S3's would use about 4200W or 1200W more than an SP31. At $0.1/kwh it would take 416 days of mining before the SP31 becomes a better deal. As for the S3's making close to nothing after ROI, check again. (Changed it to 5.5TH worth of S3's) S3+ SP31 |
|
|
|
Just found about http://www.rigwarz.com/ My only know-how comes from the forum, but it seems that I found an unbiased opinion about the SP30. It seems that it's doing very good besides all the trolls whining. Only 2 days ROI difference between S3 and SP30. Makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside. Edit: Well if you add the 12 PSU cost I think that the SP30 might achieve ROI just a little faster than the S3s. Math is nice! Crypto is uber! Sorry, but that site is significantly flawed. For instance, it claims "* Prices do not include shipping or tax.", yet the S3 price does include shipping. Furthermore, "** ROI calcs assume static conditions for ranking purposes only." It's impossible to compare miners with static conditions fairly. Only under misleading and unrealistic comparisons might the SP31 ROI before an S3+. Here's a better comparison not based on absurd math: S3+ vs SP31S3+ ROI: 180 days SP31 ROI: 360 days There's also a huge change that S3+'s are overclockable to ~500GH. There is also a chance that the SP31 performs like SP30 should have at ~6.6TH but I'd guess it's more likely it ends up closer to 4.5TH. It's also worth noting that many can use an S3 as a space heater during the winter for free/cheaper electricity. |
|
|
|
|
Show Posts
