Except that he does. Registered December 10th, second post and all subsequent posts are defending AMT in this thread and the "scam list" thread (where AMT is also listed).



I wasnt wrong. As for the reason, seems pretty transparent:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=304605.msg3893935#msg3893935

For a 5% discount. Note the date of that post, december 9th. One day before our "friend" registered after googling "1200 GH/S bitcoin miner".

Im guessing few old members are willing to prostitute their reputation and credibility for a 5% discount, hence its likely several long time posters registered new accounts to defend AMT and collect their shill pay. With this policy AMT just achieved that pretty much NO post defending them or reporting successes is still credible, especially not from new members. Nice way to shoot themselves in the foot.

As I understood, the directive also forbade selling of goods and services for bitcoin in China because bitcoin was considered a virtual good, not a currency. At least thats what I heard BTCchina's CEO say on a podcast recently. Its unclear to me if pricing in dollar or CNY and fulfilling the payment with BTC is considered legal or not. If not, it would affect any Chinese bitcoin company, and we'd have to revert to paypal/western union/wire transfers.

Exactly. The network wont slow down as long as mining revenue is above marginal (ie electricity) cost. Bitcoin price would have to drop well below $10 before asic miners would start shutting down some machines at todays difficulty.

Whatever happens to the price of bitcoin, considering the amount of gear that has been preordered already (20+ PH), there is pretty much zero chance of the network rate going down over the next months. Even if bitcoin would crash to below $10, those mining rigs would end up at miners that have dirt cheap or free electricity.

Price crashing could become a minor issue in 12-18  months or so.  Assuming by that time we approach the point where mining is only marginally profitable, ie electricity cost is close to mining revenue. If in that scenario we get a massive bitcoin price crash, the network hashrate would likely follow as miners pull the plug. Just like we are now getting "too fast" transaction confirmations (ie, under 10 minutes) because we are so far above marginal profitability, we would be getting really slow confirmations until the difficulty has followed. Hardly dramatic, but it would be slightly annoying. Probably no where near as annoying as the crash itself though .

What a way to once again say nothing. I assume you have been "working with eASIC and our engineers to get our chip and boards in full production"  since June. How about some actual updates. Has there been a pilot production run, if so, do you already have those chips, are they working? If not, whats the timeline?

Im not at all surprised at the overall trend, Ive been expecting 10+PH by years end since this spring. Its just the increase this particular difficulty interval that is taking me by surprise. The increase is significantly larger than either KnC batches at a time no one is known to be shipping high volume / high hashrate products.


Percentage wise, I doubt it. I think the steepest increase will be the first two or three months of 2014. After that I expect we will begin to approach a more linear growth. Anyway, thats for the mining speculation subforum I guess.

Puppet is rarely wrong

That would be an arbitrary and rather useless criterion.  Bitmain is relatively competitive in GH/W, which at this point isnt worrying anyone yet anyway, and they are competitive price wise. Who cares what process node they use?  If Bitmain is ignored its much more likely to do with their relatively low volume.

That said, Im also quite curious who is piling on the hashrate right now. I was expecting this difficulty period to be relatively flat, since none of the well known names are shipping, aside perhaps from Bitfury and ignoring overpriced 65nm kit from BFL.  Instead of flat we've added about 3 PH in 9 days. Thats is a big surprise to me. Is there any chance part of this is KnC private mining operation that they now may or may not sell off?

Sounded far fetched to me, but actually, you are correct:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=304605.msg3893935#msg3893935

Woha. And then people question my motives. This alone would be reason enough never to buy from AMT. They must be the first company to unashamedly and publicly pay off shills. If they have no problems doing that, who knows what else they are capable off.

I listed 15 only from the most recent pages. If you go back further it looks more like well over 2 dozen.


Fair enough. But what got them here? Or how did they find AMT? Its a genuine question its not like they are plastering the web with ads like BFL. Its not like they have been mentioned in the press anywhere that Im aware off.  


You say google, but I dare you to find AMT on google using some generic bitcoin mining related search term. One person here claimed he found it by googling  "1200 GH/s bitcoin miner"  which is about as generic as AMTs phone number. Seriously doesnt that make you wonder? The other said all thats needed is searching "bitcoin miner", but I cant find an AMT result in the first 20 result pages and I doubt they are in the first 100.

As for links from other sites:
https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=cr&ei=nNBfUvWXLYfx4QTwyIHQDA#q=link:www.advancedminers.com%2F&safe=off

The only link google seems to know about is the one on this very thread.  So if not from reading this forum, how do people learn about AMT?

Lastly, I would expect most newcomers to be curious, ask questions, perhaps in this case voice some concern if they havent yet received their order. I wouldnt expect them to form a small army of verbally aggressive cheer leaders shouting down anyone casting credible doubts on things like specs, delivery dates, and in general, credibility of this company.

+1 to the advice. WHen I was still GPU mining this was my constant nightmare. I had smoke alarms and checked my cables every few days. I once had a smoldering PCIe connector, that didnt help me relax. To be honest, considering the amount of electrical gear deployed for  mining, its surprising we dont read such stories more often. Particularly if you factor in exploding/melting/arching  BFL power supplies.

But Im a little stumped how in this case, the ATX cable got fried. Its not used. Well, only to jumper the power good switch, but basically there should be no current flowing through there whatsoever?

 

I absolutely dont and i take offense that you say so.
I do "jump" stupid arguments, but I dont care one yota if they come from 5 year old veterans or 1 week old accounts. In fact Id be more likely to just ignore a newbie saying stupid things than someone who should know better by now.

That Bitmine spec is at a CHIP level, not at the wall. AMT numbers are at the wall. Did AMT just invent 150% efficient PSU's and VRMs ? Bitmine states for the machine the lowest power consumption in power save mode as 300W for 400GH. Equivalent to 900W for 1.2 TH.  In turbo mode its the equivalent of 1300W. AMT states 300-600W.  Even AMT's high end estimate is 50% lower than Bitmine's lowest estimate, their low end is 3x lower.

BTW, AMT advertise their bitfury rigs as 64GH/s boards. A theoretical maximum speed pretty much no one has been able to achieve even with ludicrous overclocking and overvolting. What are the chances their 1.2 TH spec is based on a not yet characterized ultra low power setting of bitmine's chip, rather than nominal or even turbo speeds?

As for the ad hominens, claims of no credibility and questioning of my motives. . thats hilarious coming from you.

Not too mention 2 to 3x the electrical efficiency of Bitmine's spec.

Probably the first thing that comes to mind when reading about bitcoin and mining. 1200 gh/s, not 1000, or 500, or 2000 or 600. Not "best" or "cheapest" or "fastest" or "efficient" or "available" or whatever, but 1200 gh/s because thats the magic number?

For the record, if Im googling that it gives me a Hashfast Sierra "in stock" result on top.

Waiting for someone to post he googled "1855-866-6463" and found this thread as a result.

Care to tell me what makes a (bitcoin?) newbie type "advanced mining technology" in google? Where did they even hear about this company if not through this forum?

First of all, Id like to point out that what I wrote where verifiable facts (granted "astonishing" is kinda subjective). There is a very large number of newbie (~2 weeks or less) posters in this thread and the vast majority of them came almost directly to this thread, are posting almost nowhere else and they make up almost all of the "confirmed" orders.  Is this in dispute? I didnt think so. Does this mean I accuse every newbie poster or any particular poster of being a paid shill ? Only if you cant read or think.

Now, what conclusions you can draw from this observation is up to you. It could be coincidence. It could be that AMT is paying people to post in their thread (wouldnt exactly be the first time), it could be fake aliases to promote a scam. Its however telling that no one is coming up with non conspiratorial explanations, even though there could be some. Isnt it deeply ironic that from the stated observation, you all seem to draw the very conclusion that you accuse me of making?

As for the connection with Bitmine; considering how light on facts the statement by bitmine is, there could be a gazillion explanations. AMT signing a check (if that) or signing a contract with bitmine, doesnt exactly guarantee its customers will receive what they expected and when they expected it. Note that their Russian distributor is/was 50BTC. Good luck if you place your order there.

Im not accusing anyone of anything, and I dont judge anyone individually based on post count. I even said there were bound to be some "real newbies" who did (or didnt) order fromAMT.  However, I do look at the facts, and overall it paints a picture. One that seems statistically unlikely. Feel free draw conclusions from that, or ignore it.


If you're really interested,  Ive not been scammed once so far, nor do I remember ever identifying a business as a scam that turned out to be legitimate. Ive been called annoying before, but I dont remember being called that *and* being proven incorrect.

For the record, Im not yet asserting AMT is a scam, but there are enough indications that warrant extra caution.

What an astonishing concentration of cheer-leading newbie posters in this thread, many of whom claim to have ordered the 1.2TH product:

alsey7:  1 week old account, very first post is a thinly disguised AMT ad
Clenell:  3 week old, took 2 posts in newbie jail before mentioning wanting to buy AMT
Chazaki: 1 week old account, and already "extremely grateful for AMT" as "they are one of the few companies daring to take on this incredibly unstable market." (really?)
NaranKPatel: 2 week old account, second post mentions AMT
YourPalToots: 1 week old account, second post mentions AMT
pierred: 2 week old account, second post mentions AMT
smelly: 2 week old account, took 10 posts before finding this thread. This guy could be legit
russellthies: relatively old (6 month) account, but inactive (purchased?) until now. First post straight to AMT thread claiming to have bought 2 1.2 TH rigs
lucianoribeiro: 1 day old account, heads straight to this thread
majalen33: 1 week old account. Immediately heads to AMT thread to cheerlead
mrpark: 2 week old account. First newbie thats not a cheerleader (yet?). Might be genuine.
frank754: 1 week old account. Third post is in AMT thread
mdtspain: 2 weeks old account. Second post in AMT thread claims to have bought 1.2 TH miner.
Burebista: 1 week old account. Second post in AMT thread. not cheerleading, may be genuine
MinerTrain213: 2 weeks old account. Second post cheerleading in AMT thread.

I may have missed some more.

Now I dont judge people by post count or age of the account, some of the above may be genuine accounts from real people who just happened to stumble upon AMT. But what are the chances of 16 newbies posters stumbling upon AMT thread almost immediately after joining this forum, ordering expensive rigs from a dubious company, and for the most part, not posting anything in any other thread?

Whats that smell?


And sure enough, so far, the only confirmation of AMT shipping anything at all comes from one of those 2 week old members. Confirmation consists of pictures of 3 off the shelve bitfury boards crammed in a PC case, something any one of us could do. Specs cant be right either and for added lulz the machine is reportedly not even working. I guess thats supposed to make it more credible.

Im not ruling out anything at this point, but forgive me for not yet rushing to send my bitcoins to AMT.

Im not sure I agree. While I also highly doubt they ever expected to ship in October, I also cant believe the plan had always been to ship end of december. That would leave them no margin at all, just one minor slip somewhere in their "secret" schedule and they would risk having to refund their customers. More so since apparently their guarantee is not the shipping date, but when customers receive their units; considering all the possible delays caused by customs and parcel services, particularly in late december, thats a huge risk. One Im fairly sure they will lose for a lot of customers as it is. If that was the plan, it wasnt a good one.