Thank you for your time, dude  What do you mean by "No, you could still export the private keys into a different wallet." I can use the seed to access my funds from another wallet? No, the seed used in electrum is specific for that software. There might be a wallet that uses the same kind of seeds in the future though. You can however use electrum to extract the actual used private keys in a format that is pretty much compatible with all other wallets (WIF wallet import format). The private key is what allows you to spend the coins and its not wallet specific. There's this thing I can't understand: COINOMI doesn't offer the chance to make a backup of the wallet, or at least I can't find any option to do that.
Does this mean I can recovery my funds from within any wallet, when I use my seed when I make a new wallet?
It greatly depends on the seed used as I dont know that wallet I can not say much about it. The seed is just a very specific way to write a very large number, thus its important which words are used in which order. If one software is using 1000 words and the next 1001 the seeds do not result in the same number when calculated back and thus lead to different private keys. There is a seed comparison somewhere, but I cant find it right now. IIRC most seeds are different between different wallets, even Electrum 1.9.8 uses a different seed than Electrum 2 versions. But you will always be able to restore the same wallet with the same software if you have the seed. You may however not be able to do so with a different wallet. As long as the wallet software is sufficiently documented it is still possible to write or use a custom tool to extract the private keys. Thank you very much again for your time, man. I couldn't find these info anywhere. |
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I get that 99% of people aren't able to generate a good sentence to remember, but I still don't like being given the chance to use my favourite sentence.
It's nothing I've found on internet, I searched for it and there's NO MATCHES on internet, and it's a sentence of 16 WORDS, that could also include punctuation.
Having to fiddle with hex is not fun for a non-coder and may also lead to problems in future updates I guess so I won't go that direction.
But in example, to not get bored with that sequence of words, I just snapshot it and send it to my email, which has a password of only 10+ characters... is that really better?
And I guess many people are doing it like that.
Printing those words on paper? And if somebody stumble on that paper?
Remembering 12 words without any sense? Good luck with that: nobody will even try. I didn't, for sure.
OMG you typed into google? Are you serious? Did you e-mailed it to your other e-mail? Man you must be the most uneducated person in internet security ever. You totally compromized your password and it's only a matter of time before you get robbed. If you can't memorize 12 words then fucking carve it into a tree in a forest somewhere, to make sure nobody stumbles on that paper. Man you need to keep your sensitive data more secure, because the thieves always love newbies who cannot secure their sensitive info. I typed only the initial part of my sentence, just to see if it would have found any reference. |
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I get that 99% of people aren't able to generate a good sentence to remember, but I still don't like being given the chance to use my favourite sentence.
It's nothing I've found on internet, I searched for it and there's NO MATCHES on internet, and it's a sentence of 16 WORDS, that could also include punctuation.
Having to fiddle with hex is not fun for a non-coder and may also lead to problems in future updates I guess so I won't go that direction.
But in example, to not get bored with that sequence of words, I just snapshot it and send it to my email, which has a password of only 10+ characters... is that really better?
And I guess many people are doing it like that.
Printing those words on paper? And if somebody stumble on that paper?
Remembering 12 words without any sense? Good luck with that: nobody will even try. I didn't, for sure.
You searched for it? Meaning you typed your passphrase into Google? Now Google knows it. Plus it might even show up on some search phrase list. You don't want to be doing that. As far not being able to remember 12 words, first of all, I think you have very low standards of what the human brain can achieve. Some people memorize full books! I can easily remember 12 words and the trick is to make a little mental picture. But if you don't think you can memorize it, then trust your gut feeling about your limitations and use another kind of wallet. I snapshotted a picture of the seed and sent it to myself in the email. That should be QUITE PRIVATE I think. And I am pretty sure that if you ask 100 people they will not be learning by memory those 12 words, maybe 1 on 100 will. And that's exactly the same reason why people don't make longer and more complex passwords. Implying that I am "limited" is a subtle stupid insult, if you want to talk with me please refrain from being so presumptuous and not constructive at all. I have exposed what I consider an issue, even though the developers made it that way considering it a feature. Btw, my IQ, believe it or not (I don't care) is over 140. Below, just some results from a game.  |
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Our planet
Very interesting. And I suppose this makes 99.9999999999999999% of transactions safe. But... there's a butt. I was thinking to post a thread regarding this exact matter MINUTES AGO. If I didn't consult the forum right now, I would have posted it. How many chances are those, that somebody opens a thread answering my question before I post it? The randomnes of things make everything possible without caring the slightest about the math. People play lotto with realy bad odds of winning but there are winners all the time. Some people even win several times when the odds says that only happens if you play for millions of years. If you belive more in math than in randomnes you should play martingale. What is the odds of red popping up yet another time...  |
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you don't gamble very much do you? It's possible to have a collision in the next minute.
You don't like mathematics do you? There is a huge difference between possible and probable. While a collision is possible at the moment it is highly unlikely. Even if we are going to see the first collision in 500 years, it doesn't matter. Nobody can honestly expect any money system to last that long. Even if Bitcoin becomes widely adopted, eventually it will be replaced by something better (just as Bitcoin is replacing current systems) or it will have to be extensively upgraded. there is a way to know if a collision happened, i mean blockchain will tell you that? because otherwise the one who will generate it, because of heavy luck, will not say a word about it, and no one will know if a collision has occured or not...
Well if you get lucky you would notice an added balance to your wallet. Otherwise you can manually check the first time the addresses has been seen in the blockchain. I do not think that others can know if you've generated a existing address though. Only the person(s) involved would know at first. You could just answer him: KEEP BETTIN!  |
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Our planet
Very interesting. And I suppose this makes 99.9999999999999999% of transactions safe. But... there's a butt. I was thinking to post a thread regarding this exact matter MINUTES AGO. If I didn't consult the forum right now, I would have posted it. How many chances are those, that somebody opens a thread answering my question before I post it? |
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It is a nice idea so I joined Thank you, dude, let's hope many will appreciate and we'll finally have a rough idea of how many we are. And don't forget to spread the word, so if you have some friends in Bitcoin invite them to the group |
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I think there's a difference between "greedy" and "somebody that is trying to earn something".
I only have less than 1 BTC and I am without a job. Would you call that greed?
I would call that irrelevant. You essentially earn money when the price of Bitcoin rises. Converting to fiat is not necessary. With the value of your investment now increased (assuming Bitcoin price sees a uptrend) you can actually spend it to get more stuff that before. I for one, do not have any plans to convert. I rather have plans to buy things. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that nobody should convert in any case. Greed is usually very obvious (view the speculation section). Anyhow, this might already be a bit off topic. Might be off topic, but I don't like to be called greedy when I own nearly nothing  https://www.google.it/search?q=greedy&oq=greedy&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l5.1079j1j7&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=93&ie=UTF-8 |
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I don't think you will see people using Bitcoin anywhere soon... too few shops where to spend it.
-snip-
I agree though that SOMEBODY should spend them, because shops must see use of it, if we want Bitcoin to be implemented.
But I think it's still early and most of all I think that the people spending Bitcoin should be the ones that have most of them, rich people and such, while people with 5 BTC or less should hold onto them and only begin to spend when mainstream adoption will approach.
That does apply to local shops. Anyone buying things online can easily find a lot of places to spend their Bitcoin. As I've stated numerous times, more and more places are accepting Bitcoin. One can't expect everyone to accept it within a few years. Besides, if you look at how much revenue Bitcoin created for Overstock it is a clear indication that people are willing to spend Bitcoin. I guess there is a concentration of greedy people in this very forum. I think there's a difference between "greedy" and "somebody that is trying to earn something". I only have less than 1 BTC and I am without a job. Would you call that greed? |
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I believe it ! But when it touch $160K then I will not alive   |
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i think this is not a best way to estimate number of bitcoin users
as we know that facebook group is best way to spaming link and they could create multiple account for do that,and i think the best way is: estimate based on local exchanger
example:
In my country (indonesian)
There is a big local exchanger here (bitcoin.co.id)
and the member should verification their account wit identity proof (so there is no multiple account here)
and today there are 66.504 members has registered
so we can concluse that indonesian's bitcoiners more than 66.000 peoples
and then we can count the next country
But the problem is not at all countries have their own exchange site
I think this is a good way probably. Most Bitcoin adopters had probably gone through an official dealer like this. I bought mine on Bitcoin.de. The problem is: how many of them release the numbers? |
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Bitcoin is not like Ripple. We do not link social media accounts to our use of crypto currencies. It makes the targeting for hackers easier, if they can link you to Bitcoin and stalk you, to get to your coins. You might not care if it attract criminals, but most of us do. Would everyone who are asked to join a group that own $100 000 in fiat, do that on social media? No, You would become a victim of a kidnapping or some other criminal action. Anonymity is there for a reason, it protects your financial privacy. Nobody knows how much BTC you have. So don't be afraid to be kidnapped. And people can't see your IP through Facebook. The only thing people would know if you join the group would be that you are involved in Bitcoin somehow, that's all. |
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I don't think it's a good way of gauging the number of people who use bitcoin. I think a better approach would be counting the numbers of customers that KYC wallets/exchanges (eg. Coinbase) have to get a closer number - and even that would be inaccurate and well short of the actual numbers.
Short? Actually, it looks like people make more than 1 wallet on webwallets. Also, how can you have more users than wallets? Anyway, it's been proved that there's a lot more wallets than people, many just register and let it there without funds. They are not Bitcoin adopters, just people that tested it. Also, many people open many wallets, especially webwallets, I did it myself. I also tried many different clients on my pc and on my smartphone. So the actual number is probably very inferior to the actual installs of any software and any registrations of webwallets. This is why wallets are not a good way to estimate the number of USERS actually holding Bitcoins. By KYC I meant wallets/exchanges that ask for identification like Coinbase. I don't think you can register two verified accounts on Coinbase as the same person. I'm not talking about regular web wallets like Blockchain.info that allow anyone to sign-up with an email. Edit: Verified users of an exchange may have been a better way to put it. The problem with this approach is that those users that are verified are, surely, good users of Bitcoin. Probably traders, or venues owners. BUT, there are a lot of other users that only use a wallet and surely don't want to register with ID check and stuff. By the way, I came up with this Google Sheet to see how many Android Bitcoin wallets are installed. I checked the most used wallets but if anybody got some that I jumped please mention it. Given that Google doesn't disclose the exact amount of installs anymore, I adjusted to the middle of that min-max installs. Then adjusted again to 70%, just to cut off some people that may have tried more than 1 wallet. The result is around 1 million. I would say 1 million of users have at least 1 wallet installed and using it, even if only to hold some coins or just tried it. Then, we should add the number of pc wallets installed. And then there's the webwallets. |
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I don't think it's a good way of gauging the number of people who use bitcoin. I think a better approach would be counting the numbers of customers that KYC wallets/exchanges (eg. Coinbase) have to get a closer number - and even that would be inaccurate and well short of the actual numbers.
Short? Actually, it looks like people make more than 1 wallet on webwallets. Also, how can you have more users than wallets? Anyway, it's been proved that there's a lot more wallets than people, many just register and let it there without funds. They are not Bitcoin adopters, just people that tested it. Also, many people open many wallets, especially webwallets, I did it myself. I also tried many different clients on my pc and on my smartphone. So the actual number is probably very inferior to the actual installs of any software and any registrations of webwallets. This is why wallets are not a good way to estimate the number of USERS actually holding Bitcoins. |
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There are many abolished paper currencies, they all have limited number, but only worth something in the eyes of currency collectors. If a currency is not in circulation, then its demand and value will be very limited
A large portion of this forum is blindly beliving that the 21 000 000 cap is going to make everybody want to use bitcoins. It has no effect on the mainstream user if there is a cap or not. The physiological effect of owning a bitcoin today wont have any effect on the masses. Not more than having a rare stamp is affecting the masses as it is only other stamp collectors who cares. The things that make a good currency has nothing to do with how many or what medium they are in. What matters is as follows. Are it trustet so you can buy stuff, can you earn it doing normal jobs, are everyone else around you using it and finally is it legal so you dont risk anything by using it. 99.9% of the worlds population has no desire to use a currency just because of it anonymity. They want something usefull. If people wanted a currency with limited supply there are a lot of options and many are easier to adapt than bitcoins who are being hoarded by geeks and other oddballs. Either they adopt a crypto who is spread evenly so everyone could get in on it or they could go for low inflation systems. Low inflation has been tested in Japan, and the sharia laws forbid interest on loans.... But once again, I didn't mean how much will the 21 millionth bitcoin cost. I asked what will the 21 millionth BITCOIN USER WANNABE PAY for 1 BTC (even if he buys only a fraction of it, as it will much probably be). Maybe a more clear way to pose the question is: how much will 1 BTC cost when the number of Bitcoin users will hit 21 million? About "the things that make a good currency"... I won't enter into that matter, as there's another thread to be opened if one wants to discuss such a large topic, but the fact that the number of Bitcoins is limited to 21 millions IS actually a factor to increase its value over time. I hope I don't have to explain you why. |
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No, because a large percentage will sell off at $1k, then $5K, then $10K etc. Early adopters will become early sellers, there will only be a select few that will have the gonads and patience to hold even when the price skyrockets.
Wrong. Faulty generalization is not a indicator or what is going to happen. People seriously need to rethink why they are involved with Bitcoin. Essentially what should be done once the price takes off (which will probably be followed by adoption) is to spend Bitcoin itself. That's what it was designed for. People need to stop being greedy and converting. If I ever plan on buying X, I will buy it using Bitcoin. probably much less than 1, i would say from 500 the selling pressure will increase a lot, and will be exponential from 1k, which is a good thing, less weak hands more strong price
Possibly, but I doubt that there will be much pressure at $500. If you remember the huge amount of threads of people complaining that they are at a loss (when the price started to go down). I'm expecting selling pressure to exponentially increase above $1k. However, that price point again might be a indicator and we might take off even further.
OP there will never be enough Bitcoins for 21 million people to own 1. You do have to factor in the estimated 1M that satoshi has, a various losses over time. I don't think you will see people using Bitcoin anywhere soon... too few shops where to spend it. Maybe in the USA things go well, maybe in Norway or UK you can actually use Bitcoin often, but in the rest of the world you can't use it for everyday shopping, not even if you really want. But this is a side consideration. The main consideration is that who came into Bitcoin so early, forcefully knows or thinks its price is destined to grow A LOT. This makes spending of Bitcoin quite naive if you ask me, and the less you have, the more naive you are if you spend it. I agree though that SOMEBODY should spend them, because shops must see use of it, if we want Bitcoin to be implemented. But I think it's still early and most of all I think that the people spending Bitcoin should be the ones that have most of them, rich people and such, while people with 5 BTC or less should hold onto them and only begin to spend when mainstream adoption will approach. |
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I don't know if this is allowed here, if not I'm sorry for it, just delete the thread. Anyway, as I'm really curious on how many Bitcoin users are out there and it seems there's no reliable way to estimate it at the moment, I thought this could be a good try. Quick, easy and inexpensive. Just ask for subscription, spread the word, and let's see how many will join. https://www.facebook.com/groups/1153361628014629/Also, remember: the more we are, the more reputation Bitcoin gains... so it's in our interest to manage to make this estimate. Its just a newly opened group on Facebook , already few groups that are popular are doing well anyways its a nice initiative to get good quality members , i have already sent a join request. waiting to get accepted. Thank you. Other groups, though, as I wrote, are mostly oriented to give you news about Bitcoin or there are groups to increase awareness on Bitcoinmap, which is good, but different from what is this group aim. I won't be spamming anything, unless things evolve in a different direction. I only want to see how many of us are trusting Bitcoin and, well, don't care so much about "privacy". I'll keep open the group to see how it goes, it would be nice to have a way to say people: "LOOK! WE ARE 1.5 MILLIONS OF REAL PEOPLE USING THIS." I think this would help somewhat pushing Bitcoin into the mainstream, and FB is a great medium for this. |
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So you want to guage how many bitcoin users there are by how many people join your facebook group? Looks like a cheap way to try get likes in my opinion.
It's a FB group, you join a group, not like my profile |
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Thank you for your time, dude What do you mean by "No, you could still export the private keys into a different wallet." I can use the seed to access my funds from another wallet? There's this thing I can't understand: COINOMI doesn't offer the chance to make a backup of the wallet, or at least I can't find any option to do that. Does this mean I can recovery my funds from within any wallet, when I use my seed when I make a new wallet? |
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Nice and neat idea you have. However, I wont be joining the group unless I create another new account. I was banned on Facebook for using fake identity last year. I'm not using Twitter as they are like Facebook. As others said in this thread, most Bitcoiner want to stay anonymous. I doubt this group will be able to count the number of Bitcoin users on Earth. Oh also, some country like China ban Facebook.
Mhhhh yeah... maybe it's not such a good idea after all  I'll keep it open for a while and see how it goes... |
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