Kevin,

No matter what the MT Gox website says, they are not going to volumtarily take a 5 million dollar hit, even if its 100% their own fault.

MT Gox will not bow to community pressure when 5 million bucks is on the line.

Not that there is significant pressure to begin with, since the majority of the public opinion is in support of the rollback do over.

We love our money. We work hard for it. We want our money protected and given back to us if its taken away. Thats where the opinion is.

My advice to you would be to consult with an attorney. If he sees feasibility in moving forward, you will probably need to hire one in japan as well to work with your US attorney. MT Gox may very well hold fiduciary responsibility in honoring your trades, barring any unknown laws regarding fraud, theft, unregulated trade and commidities speculation. The very least that could happend would be a judge refusing to hear the case or throw it out. The best that could happen is that the bitcons and/or financial assets are frozen until case disposition.

With their servers in the USA, their operations in Japan, and doing world-wide trading, its hard to tell what jurisdictional relief you may have.

When a company does not adhere to their own terms and policies, the only recourse is through the courts.

... Or its all fabricated to make TradeHill look more secure in the eyes of the members of this forum.

The only reason I say that possibility is because, by their own admission, they checked out all the major bitcoin sites and exchanges for vulnerabilities, and said nothing god or bad about them. Yet, decided to zone in on TradeHill as being the best in terms of security, while neglecting to state why the other did not deserve equal mention.

Why?

If their security was so bad would it not deserve to be blasted like they did mtgox?

If they had good security would they not deserve to been mentioined like Tradehill ?

Plus the request to have TradeHill removed from the logs is quite possible a disinformation ruse to attempt to invalidate the possibility I just mentioned. (like omg,  why would i ask for tradehill to be removed if i was whoring for it?)

Regardless of the truth, it will never be able to be "proven" since, even if it is all true, the holes will be plugged by the time mtgox goes live.

Which is what we all want. A more secure market. (minus the drama please)

Currency is 'legal tender'.
 
BitCoin is not legitimate and legal currency according to the US legal tender laws.

Only the government has the right to 'Coin Money'.

I am sure there are similar statutes in most nations.

It is a medium for exchange and has close ties to currency. In a historical sense it is a currency, just not a legal one I dont think.

That said, stolen bitcoins can be valued. Acts were comitted to deprive the rightful owners of property, whether virtual or physical is not significant. Take a look at the second life lawsuits and judgements about virtual property and the valuation thereof.

I went in to watch but it kicked me out after a couple minutes.

Is there a way we can observe without getting kicked out ?

so we can learn the ropes a bit.

I love poker but I never played the holdem.

Just regular poker.

It's a get rich (not so) quick pyramid scheme that requests money or other items of value and promise a substantial return to the participants.

and you would log in clones in an effort to add legitimacy to the con.

because you (and your clones) are the first in line you get the money, because people would soon realize its a con then participation would cease.

It prays on the poor, the gullible, and the simple-minded.

seriously ?

a bitcoin chain letter ?

think you jumped the gun logging in your clone 20 minutes later with no other posts between them.

lol @ already at 3.

then open you eyes and read some documented facts.

nice !

Tradehill needs to have a no-tolerance spam policy.

Referral programs are completely legitimate and legal.

Tradehill needs to have a no-tolerance spam policy.

Referral programs are completely legitimate and legal.

Another problem for any B&M merchants is the time it takes for confirmations.

It is unrealistic to expect a customer to wait for x confirmations before they can take the product purchased or even start a prepaid service, unless you really trusted them or said the hell with it and took a chance.

So it all must be prepaid.

The easiest way around this is a web storefront where the customer can pre-order then run to the store for their purchases later. Even with prepaids, the planning required by the consumer is an unrealistic expectation as most sales are spur of the moment impulse buys.

It would make the store look bad and bitcoin look like and unviable alternative to cash.

Yes yes I know many of us plan everything. I am the same, but we are not the average citizens of the world.

send 1 BTC to 1UQ1qecPZCGQB4X5Y8vzgsy

then PM me

will send invite upon confirmation.

The furture of BitCoin legitimacy is locked to MTGox because it is the largest exchange. That means that right now BitCoin needs MTGox badly.

If MTGox is deemed a danger to use and it's legitimacy is questioned to harshly, so is the bitcoin for many.

Don't expect that to change.

Expect that, and the censorship to deepen.

Plus, BitCoin leaders have stated that BitCoin can use some investment, which is certainly something MTGox can provide with the profits from their transactions.

It is not unheard of for those with money doing secret backroom deals with those in need of money.

Public Disclosure of Vulnerabilities are important.

The positives by far outweigh the negatives, because all negatives are self-serving for the programmers and companies behind any product or service (eg- liability).

The positives are:

• accountability
• transparency
• consumer protection
• forces fast reaction to the threats by the developers
• adds legitimacy to the product/service
• adds positive public perception
• lets the consumer know there is a problem so they can react accordingly - like protecting their own customers if they rely on the product/service and advising them accordingly, which decreased their own potential liability
• lets the consumer know the maker is not a trusted serious resource provider if they do not fix them efficiently and effectively (lets face it some programmers should not be programming with their limited skillsets)
• lets the consumer know how serious and professional the maker is by the speed and quality of the fix

which all the above by far outweigh the only negative, which:

• places liability and negative publicity on those responsible for the vulerabilities.

The latter of which is why most do not want public disclosures, as exemplified by Gavins response to this public disclosure posted over at sourceforge:, "Some of us take private disclosures of vulnerabilities very seriously".

Sorry, but public disclosures and the rammifications of problems you created with your products and services are the cost of doing business, and you should be liable since you created it in the first place and placed it out there in the market as a solution to a consumers needs.

Eat it up, do it right the first time, do better research and product/service testing before releasing it, or get out of the business.

nothing personal.

-removed-

I think its only fair to make amends for the fraudulent activity.

Sure some people are pissed that they cant get their cheap bitcoins, but those sell orders werent legitimate.

Technically, you are right. It has not been hacked causing any loss, but it could have been.

The probblem is the cavalier attitude and commentary of Bitcoin7 when notified of those insecurities.

This begs the question, "what else is there to find thats exploitable?", since its obvious Bitcoin7 cares little about them and minimises them to the people trying to help them.

That said, the known flaws have been closed.

Besides, just the attempt to bribe the bitcoin developer is enough for me to never use them.

I have no dog in this fight either, but I was doing some research on exchanges so I didnt put all my eggs in one basket.

If you read this thread: http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=17004.0

... you will see the guy who runs Bitcoin7 has::

• Tried to bribe a bitcoin developer to say that bitcoin7 was better than mtgox. (reference link)
• Has no idea of the technology his own site uses that inaccurately computes currency values.
• Has no idea of the technology his own site should be using to accurately compute currency values.
• Been told about exploitable areas in his site, just to minimize them when bitcoin community professionals informed him of them.
• Argued with, belittled, and maligned those professionals who tried to help him fix the problems with his site.
• Uses PR gibberish to explain away and minimize problems with his site.
• Has lied to the community about seriousness of the flaws in his site/security.

Personally, by his own words, I think the guy is a dickhead, bullshit artist, PR person, has no clue about the working of his own site, who will say anything and do anything regardless of ethics and legality to add fake legitimacy to Bitcoin7.

When dealing with other peoples hard earned money, you take it seriously.

Your customers safety, security, and money should be the absolute most important things.

In my opinion, he could care less about you and will step on your neck if needed to grow his fledgeling Bitcoin7 business.

This horse isn't dead yet after all this beating ?

I am the first to admit there are alot of strange conspiracy theories out there.

Like in the 1970s and early 80's, they were claiming the elite wanted to put microchips in us. They were some weird wackout out nuts werent they?  Then in the 1980's-90's we all found out how real these conspiracy chips were and they started putting them in pets and animals in the wild to track their habits. Now they are chipping the population "to protect the children". Chipping your passports, drivers licenses, and credit cards too because its more efficient and safe.  Chipping the products you buy, the books you read so they can track sales right? Or track you, and what you are reading and buying ?

I remember back in the 80's there was this crazy nutbag conspiracy about tracking all vehicles. Crazy nuts lol. Then in the 1990's federal regulations said that every car computer had to have a identical Standardized "port" installed into them for some peripheral device. Now we have EarthStream, Onstar, and global positioning devices using that port. Tons of other global positioning devices. Tracking you for your safety and security too! Or tracking where you go ? Interesting this started near about the time of the Chrystler bailout, and considering the recent auto bailouts, can we suggest that if you take government money you have to do what they tell you ?

There was once this conspiracy about the government being able to film you anywhere on the face of the earth. Spy on you. Take pictures of you. Track you. Today its known as Keyhole and Google Earth. The military has much better upgraded versions.

What about those secret CIA prisons those conspiracy theorists finally got the Washington Post to print of in 2005? ... that the Bush administration admitted to in 2006 ? From 2001 to 2006 it was all crazy conspiracies.

What about the DEA's war on drugs? The CIA's importation of drugs? The CIA's sales of those drugs to our kids to fund their black bag opperations? Yes yes more crazy conspiracies. Can we say "Iran-Contra" and "Mena, Arkansas" anyone?

The above is but a small fraction of conspiracies proven by documented fact by witnesses and from the freedom of information act. I could take days typing this shit.

The consiracy theorists were laughed at, ridiculed, and marginalized for very good reasons ... for being the crazy nutbags that they are ... then for being traitors for telling the truth ... or true partiots ... you make the call.