My understanding is 50% additional hash is all that will be given no matter how long you wait after 61 days.
You misunderstood Bitmine. EVERY Order is planned to be +50% with at least 50-70days delay. They wont refund. They will send them before it's even possible to refund for sure. It is true. To my knowledge no one has recieved a refund yet. And atleast one guy tried a "Betreibung" (collection of a claim) to get to his money... |
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order number is #333X, February week 1 batch, paid at the end of November, 1 Coincraft Desk. Called bitmine few minutes ago and was told that this batch will be delivered in the middle of April perhaps  ... just before the "after 71 days right for refund" CPP policy triggers (which is against EU regulations I guess). This doesn't smell good at all. If they doubled the staff to cover the queues than there are no viable reasons why it should be delayed for so long now. Looks like I made a big mistake pre-ordering from bitmine, they blinded me with this "Swiss company" logo I called them an hour ago, I am in the same situation like you (end of november paid for a february week 1 delivery) ... and now they say: "it's going to be delievered probably 10th april..." And still they claim they make 30 devices a day (giorgiomassa even talks about 50+)... which would equal nearly a thousand devices per month... but no, it seems everybody is waiting, and delays are only increasing. I remember a month ago (mid february, when my CPP started), i jokingly told them on the phone: "dude, if delays continue like that, it will be april before I get to my devices"... And they replied: "No! No! Certainly not april...." So really I have to assume the worst case, I feel stupid for still hoping. It is nothing but a big mistake, and I will make sure to spread the message. Another thing: How come bitmine is so unprepared that every single problem (missing PSUs, missing Screws, whatever) becomes a giant problem immediately? What kind of business is so unprepared and has no backup plans, no spare parts, no secondary suppliers.... ? Why so many points of failure? If I was a business I would be prepared, but it seems like the word preparation is unknown to bitmine. Production updates for CoinCraft Desk Units
In the meantime we are sourcing for additional supplies of high power rating ATX power supplies (1300W+) for the 1 TH/s desk units, the compensations set forth by the CPP have led to basically all early ordered desk units to be upgraded to full units coped with the delays of supply for already placed orders is now resulting in a temporary shortage. While we solve this problem we are delivering orders that are 800 GH/s or less and, as such, some orders may be sent earlier than others. If you want your unit to be delivered without power supply, please contact our support team to arrange such a change.
How come you are figuring this out now? Why didn't you order more 1300W+ PSUs a month ago, when it became 100% clear that most Coindesks would be turned into 1 TH devices? Shouldn't something like this have been anticipated? I can't believe how amateurish this business is run. |
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As a reminder for new people: There is also an Unofficial BITMINE CoinCraft series 28nm ASIC miners thread:https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=486808.new#newI think it is important to keep this thread alive too, so new people get a clear picture about business behaviour and customer sentiment. |
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they are going to collect money for the 6Th miner soon. So they have to get active again. That's why we must keep this thread alive. So I will continue posting in this thread too... you never know when giorgiomassa gets triggerhappy again and decides to shut down discussion. |
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Thanks for digging this out... How does the saying go? The best indicator for future behaviour is past behaviour. |
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Ok now I've read again the last word of retrogamer and I can say with absolute certainty that this phrase "slept in the car at - 15 C is shit still winter in Switzerland" is a lie.
I live near Bitmine and the night temperature don't goes under 0 degree.
If he's so cold, maybe that's the reason why he so desperately needs those professional overexpensive "heating devices" ... Ouch! |
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For each subsequential 10 minutes you hold the line, you get 10% more attention up to a maximum of 50% ;-)
HAHA!! Btw. when I visited Bitmine and asked about my order, Christian told me that I will get 2TH. (I've ordered 1TH Rig shipping February) So how come they give you 100%? Did you use some kind of jedi mind trick. Ah wait.. they "promised" you something... like... do they even have a Rig Prototype ready yet? |
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For each subsequential 10 minutes you hold the line, you get 10% more attention up to a maximum of 50% ;-)
HAHA!! |
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Maybe just a stupid stupid question.
My shipping date is "March 1 week".
So what exact date should I expect to be my shipping date?
01.03 or 08.03?
I dont find any definiton about first week in month. Does the week need to be completly in this month or is it enough that one day is in the month? I heared about both variants, nobody knows it really....
I really don't want to give you an answer. Because I have heard very inconsistent answers by bitmine. I think it is deliberate that they let the interpretation open, so that they can interpret it any way they like. |
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But if Bitmine does deliver within the 60 day period or they return the money after it I don't see any reason for law suits etc. But at the same time I'm still a bit nervous that they manage to fail there too.
Me neither. I just want my miners and I am fine. I never said that bitmine is a scam (check all my previous posts). They don't fit the criteria to be called a scam. Incapable yes, but not a scam. So a lawsuit doesn't make sense (yet?). I think all this will either be a lesson to bitmine, or they wont have a bright future... I'm definitely not a fanboy. And I do think that they have handled this whole thing very poorly. But the sad reality is that it was to be expected. It's just the way the ASIC thing works. Or at least did work.
No I don't think so. I think bitmine really had good intentions... I can't otherwise explain how they came up with a device design that carries individual moduls. There plan was (I must assume) to create a customer loyalty... making the satisfied customer buy a small device and happily upgrading it over time... something like that.... Or what were they thinking? Anyway now after 4 months...... isn't it hilarious how stupid it is to have devices with modules? I mean who in their right mind is going to order additional moduls to complete a full set after all this fiasko and desaster? Or again... the big conspiracy... they really totally expected that CPP would be triggered with every customer, and that's why they went with moduls from the start, so that they can play this fractional modul game with us...  |
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The risk of price fluctuations, the risk of rising difficulty
What does this have to do with a hardware developper? They just have to build the machines, for crying out loud. Don't mix those things together... market risk, and bitcoin difficulty have absolutely nothing to do with hardware manufacturing. This risk is not part of our deal with bitmine, so you can't list this as a justified reason why they have problems. remember that it was not even a month ago that they finally finished the working coindesk prototype.http://bitmine.ch/?p=5176What I assumed should have been done in december (when I ordered in november) was only done two months later.... I can only say: wow. |
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It honestly does sound a bit like that. When your 60 days are gone you can get more than a full refund so I really don't see what the problem is. Unless people are actually complaining that they didn't profit as much as they had hoped.
The goal is and always was to recieve a working device at the promised shipment week. Now that most people have abandoned CPP and Turbomode as their "saviour", they really feel "punked" because it looks like they have involuntarily given bitmine a 6 month loan (or more). Having my money "parked" for such a long time for 10% bonus is the last thing I wished for. I am not a bank. And I will not say "thank you" for the 10% bonus I will get should I apply for a refund. I will still feel "punked". It's sad that you can't see that. |
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The CPP was advertized as a security against delay.
A security can't and shouldn't be abused. That's illegal.
After 60 days you get more money back than what you paid in the first place. How on earth can you see that as illegal or abusing anything? Name one mainstream company that offers better terms if you decide to cancel your order. No, you misunderstood. I said: I the one who is insured can't go and abuse the insurance. That's illegal. So I can't force to make bitmine have a delay of 360 days... not in any legal way... You made it sound like we are abusing the insurance by hoping that bitmine will need 360 days... so we can have a very high CPP return. That's ridiculous. We don't hope anything.. we just want our devices built, godammit. The sole reason we payed. The CPP shouldn't have triggered in the first place (that would have been the best case). And an investigation should find out WHY every single customer has his CPP triggered. Is this intentional? If an insurance is triggered for every single customer we have to assume that it was all planned all along... Was there prior knowledge that this will happen, and were we customers intentionally mislead with "nice words" and "promises"? So you see, your argument was ridiculous and I just wanted to point this out. Having fireinsurance and hoping your house burns down is crazy. Much like having CPP and hoping you get 360% for 1 year. It's crazy. It's abuse. For both bitmine and the customer. |
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For me, this makes no sense
I am sure bitmine can come up with any number of additional problems that have caused any additional delays. They probably have the capacity to build enough machines now, but they lack very specific screws and bolts or something. |
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Yes, everyone's frustrated that the bet didn't pay off, but there is no free money! You thought you'd make a quick buck and it didn't work out. Yeah well, that's life. If it'd be that easy everyone would be rich.
Well it was THAT easy for bitmine, so your argument is invalid. Millions of dollars recieved, handfuls of miners built, zero fucks given. |
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We should really start a petition and try to reach as many people as possible to tell us if they misunderstood the CPP, and were mislead by it. It would counter the very manipulative behaviour of giorgiomassa who wants to make everyone believe that it's only a few outsiders who have a problem with the CPP: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=486808.msg5617570#msg5617570Why does he do that? |
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Ohnoes, it's been 12 months and I still haven't cancelled my order. I want my 360% CPP. Yeah, right. It was pretty fucking clear from the beginning that you get 10% per 10 days until you reach 60 days and then you get your money back.
 The CPP was advertized as a security against delay. A security can't and shouldn't be abused. That's illegal. It should only be tied to an actual case, like for example... to actually have the device built that you payed for.Should they really need 12 months, then it's bitmines fault, and not ours. Ofcourse we are talking hypothetical. And ofcourse most people will simply take the refund after 3 months for sure. But here's the thing: Many assumed they will get 70, 90, maybe 120 % ... bitmine made it look like they are willing to pay you for every day you additionally have (or choose) to wait. That was the whole idea behind the CPP. If they protect you only for 50 days but could potentially still let you wait for additional 100 days.. what kind of CPP is that? None at all. Because it protects you only against small damage, but not the real damage when you really have to wait... This is not how a security plan works. Imagine a fire insurance that only applies during January and February, but that doesn't secure you the rest of the year? What kind of car insurance only pays for accidents you made while driving at a speed between 0 and 50 mph? But doesn't pay with speeds upwards of 51 mph? I say bitmine has mislead many customers with that CPP and the turbomode, and I think an investigation makes more and more sense. I really would like to know how many people misunderstood the CPP... it seems like EVERYBODY... the ones who don't know it yet are the ones who haven't yet really thought about it. |
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but whats the basis of 50% max? Nothing in the ToS right?
No, but only the "reinterpretation" by giorgiomassa in his "famous last words": https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=291141.msg5362648#msg5362648I still strongly believe that any lawyer would agree that the CPP is supposed to continue until the device can be build.If not, one has to ask if giorgiomassa simply gambled and assumed/hoped that many people would rather give up and ask for a refund? A lawyer should investigate if giorgiomassa intentionally started this scheme so he could finance his business with our money, and pay us back our own money plus interest only after more than 5 months. (because that's about the duration bitmine owns your money, until they have to give it back) |
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total compensation now is 80% , should receive (at least) 1 extra Desk with 4 modules = 800Gh/s. If I haven't received my order by March 25th, we are at 90% = a full extra 1T Desk  (yes I can still laugh about it....)  I am afraid they will only give you 50%. Please call bitmine until they give you an answer. |
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so also the 71th day cancellation is bullshit. It clearly states 61 days. Why would one add the 10 days? Late shipment is late shipment even if 10 days are allowed. Not need to add them up.
I agree with you. Again we have an unfair reinterpretation of facts. 1) Shipment can be late up to a maximum of 10 days from the agreed shipment date.
2) For each subsequent 10 days of late shipping, we will add for free 10% more hashing power to your order as penalty.
3) After the 61st day of late shipment, you have the right to request a full refund and we will pay you an additional penalty of 10% of the initial order amount. In bitmines own language, "late Shipment" is what they define in paragraph 1. It has nothing to do with CPP, in fact it excludes them and us from the CPP. It's just the lateness in days, after the agreed upon shipment week. This same definition can't be changed later on, what are they thinking, to no connect it to the agreed upon shipment week anymore, but rather to the start of the CPP??? Ofcourse not. What sane person changes the definition inbetween two paragraphs??? They start the sentence with: Listen everybody: "late shipment" means "days passed since the shipment date"... and two sentences later they go.... nonono! "late shipment" starts with the CPP? I think any lawyer would start laughing should they hear about such clumsy behaviour. What is this a turkish bazar? So I am sure you can apply for a refund after 61 days. Don't let bitmine intimidate you. Just do the procedure, and talk to them, and complain about it wherever you can, and how often you can. This must be heard, or they will think they can do anything they want. |
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