Unofficial BITMINE CoinCraft series 28nm ASIC miners thread

[3DX4D]

Rigs to Desks create another problem, at least for me, my Rigs should go to a colocation facilty which need a standard rack form factor, which Rigs have, but Desks don't.

So I cannot ask for Desks as replacement for Rigs unless you can put Desks inside a standard rack compatible case.

I don't really see that as a big problem, just like with the Avalons (last years, not the new 2U rackmount ones), we just put them on little shelves that we screw into the racks. 2 shelves that cost EU 15 each are not such a problem...

Of course if you can't lay them flat, then you have to stand them up and lose more space

I'm a little hesitant to ask for this change because we don't know whether BitMine is able to transform each Rig in Desk without further delays.

I have to ask colocation site to prepare for a different solution, which uses more space, and then, maybe, I end up waiting for much longer because BitMine is out of Desk cases.

spiccioli

I actually just sent an email asking if its possible to convert.  I also asked what my estimated shipping time would be if I converted  my order because like you I fear that we may just get shoved to the end of the line.

I received this very quick and nice response from Antonio.  I will say that their queue systems seems whacky I have received different queue positions on different email requests.  Guess I will be waiting for my rig and not switching to a desk after all.

Antonio (Bitmine AG)
Mar 10 14:51

Dear Mr.xxxxxxxx,
since during this week I am expecting the final information regarding the start of the production of Rigs,I will advise you to wait another week 10 days.
Since the date that the Rigs will enter the production will show which kind of machine(desk or rig) will be possible to arrive faster to you.
At the moment the rig queue that you are having is 13x (which means that we will have to produce 13x-1 rigs before yours,though if we switch to desk we are talking that the queue of desk will be 43x.)
So I would advise to wait a little more to see the progression of the Rigs,
anyway that time that I am asking you to wait it will not affect your queue position.
Please let me know your intentions.

Thanks
for your interests in our products.

Danke für Ihr Interesse an unseren Produkten.

For any questions don't hesitate to contact us. In the meantime

Für Fragen sind wir jederzeit für Sie da.

Kind regards/MfG

Customer Service

[georgem]

can you stop fucking bitching, yes giorgiomassa was at fault but the desks have been shipping and soon the rigs, you clearly have the option TO GET A DAMN REFUND

You obviously did not spend USD 30k on an order which is 3 months delayed...

It was a pre-order you spend your money on. There was NO product ready to get shipped to you. It was a bet, that they can built that thing and that they can built it in time. The chances were fifty fifty in my eyes. A LOT OF RISK involved.  So, i made a bet with $15k. You doubled. Our bet is going to work, there is a product. Your money is not complete lost.One bet is stil open. The delivery time. I guess no one knows and you cant change it.

So complaint is not allowed?
Is that what it boils down to for you?
While we are raped we might just as well enjoy it?
(After all it's free sex, isn't it?  )

I don't understand the thought of some people here.

Fact is that the information on the bitmine.ch site for months now has been deliberately manipulating the customers into thinking that the risk is very low.
And that you can pay good money to get this low risk.
We were told that should something go wrong, we would get a CPP (everybody assumed an open-ended CPP), and even a 50% turbomode was implied that we could use to make up lost time.
But everything turns out to be a trick.

What good is a turbomode you can't really use ?
What good is a CPP that lets you down after 50% ?

Fact is that many people wouldn't have made orders if they knew how high the risk really is, and that everything bitmine posted was not facts, but assumptions.

So people payed good money, but still got high risk.
So in a way yes they were tricked.

PS: I still hope to get my two devices within the next 3 weeks (I am at 30% CPP at the moment). But I know for sure that I will not recommend or use bitmine ever again. It makes no sense, fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.

[Alexandrus]

Anybody tell me where is bitmine warehouse ? Centro la Monda 2
6528 Camorino ?
Thanks !

But it's hidden very well.
No doorbell, no signs, nothing.

kev.in thanks a lot !

[manicminer5]

I actually just sent an email asking if its possible to convert.  I also asked what my estimated shipping time would be if I converted  my order because like you I fear that we may just get shoved to the end of the line.

I received this very quick and nice response from Antonio.  I will say that their queue systems seems whacky I have received different queue positions on different email requests.  Guess I will be waiting for my rig and not switching to a desk after all.

So you are the lucky one I'm waiting 2 weeks for response on similar request.

[monsters4r]

PS: ... But I know for sure that I will not recommend or use bitmine ever again. It makes no sense, fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.

+1

This type of "business" is the best way to loose clients. And Bitmine will lose a lots of clients. Except Petamine.

[3DX4D]

I actually just sent an email asking if its possible to convert.  I also asked what my estimated shipping time would be if I converted  my order because like you I fear that we may just get shoved to the end of the line.

I received this very quick and nice response from Antonio.  I will say that their queue systems seems whacky I have received different queue positions on different email requests.  Guess I will be waiting for my rig and not switching to a desk after all.

So you are the lucky one I'm waiting 2 weeks for response on similar request.

I was pleasantly surprised by the extremely quick response this time.  The news wasn't exactly super awesome but they responded to me.  FWIW they have responded to all my email requests (3 or 4 total I think since my order in Nov so I don't think I am being a pest!).  All but this last one took at least a couple of days to get back to me.  Guess my email just happen to be sent at a perfect time for him to catch it a shoot a real quick response too?  Lucky me I guess.

With regards to everything else ya its sucks balls not having a miner yet.

[georgem]

it sound for me as a OBSESSIONAL NEUROSIS and NOT like a COMPLAIN.

And it sounds to me like you are "blaming the victim", which is just wrong.

Well, we can all learn, and tell others about our experience.
But to be silent is the last thing we should do, and that's why you see us complain.

And yes, I will keep complaining, why should I stop?
Has the situation changed or has restitution of any kind happened?

Obviously not, so why stop complaining?

Also, there is a really healthy reason WHY we complain, and it baffles me that bitmine doesn't understand this.

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consumer_complaint :

A consumer complaint or customer complaint is “an expression of dissatisfaction on a consumer’s behalf to a responsible party” .
It can also be described in a positive sense as a report from a consumer providing documentation about a problem with a product or service.[1]
In fact, some modern business consultants urge businesses to view customer complaints as a gift.

--->A Customer Complaint Is a Gift

I see it this way: complaining about a company is like "testing someones character".
Checking if the person really cares and wants to take responsibility.

But the way I have seen bitmine react in the last months is not very encouraging.
Instead of showing us that they can be trusted, they start to threaten us, they stifle discussion and even blame us for their delays (I still can't believe this   )....
What I initially hoped to become a good deal, has developped into something like a "visit to the dentist" that I can't wait to finally get behind me.
I so hope this will end soon, so I can procede with my life.

But "this dentist" won't even tell me how long I have to wait, and how soon the procedure will be over.... so the waiting and the ambiguity is slowly eating my nerves...

Bitmine, it's your last chance.
Prove you are worth something and that you can be trusted, and your customers will reward you.
Why is this so difficult to understand?

[THC888]

http://www.admin.ch/opc/en/classified-compilation/19110009/201401010000/220.pdf

Art.190 & Art. 191

[lossminer]

http://www.admin.ch/opc/en/classified-compilation/19110009/201401010000/220.pdf

Art.190 & Art. 191

sounds like they may be liable for occured damages in terms of mining loss.. maybe thats why they want us to sign these docs.

nice1

[Mork]

I was just reading their TOS again, to check for that 50% cap. Because, maybe I'm stupid but, if they change it after my purchase, those changes do not apply for me at all. And for you too...

And look there, §4.5.2:

4.5.2 For each subsequent 10 days of late shipment, we will add for free 10% more hashing power to your order.

50% cap my a**...

Something interesting I found out:
TOS - §1.6 reads:

1.6 Bitmine will confirm its acceptance of your order by sending you an email
confirming that the payment has been received and cleared. This operation
confirms your position in the shipping queue and, as such, the “agreed
shipment date”. Bitmine shall not be under any obligation to accept your order
and the contract between you and Bitmine for the sale of goods will only be
formed once Bitmine has sent you such Paid Order Acceptance Confirmation
email.

That actually means:
Since Bitmine does NOT send out that confirmation on its own as stated in the TOS, if you have not requested the confirmation on your own and have received it, they can claim you never had a contract with them, if they want to.

[minternj]

Sounds like they are Hashfasting you all with changing TOS after the fact and making it retroactive. Good luck.

[SolarSilver]

Once again since 70 thread pages: No turbomode (as we were all dreaming of and was sold to us), CPP up to 50% (even we were thinking, that will never come in play). Its not just you, who is disappointed and suffer.

where is it listed in the CPP it's capped at 50%? None of the website or emails I got when I placed the order mentioned any max limit

[georgem]

@georgem, @giorgiotheclown, @min€r, @tranquille: you are pretty much the only users here out of our 1500+ customers worldwide that are so much disappointed, why don't you very simply ask for a refund now that you have the opportunity to do so? So far we received just a handful of refund requests and I'm betting yours are not among them.

I am not allowed to do a refund yet. I am at 30% CPP at the moment (I assume, I can't know for sure, since even you don't know for sure...)
I still hope I will get my two coindesks this month... It would make me happy. But more and more I think I am daydreaming...

I forgot to ask you:

are those 1500+ customers worldwide... or simply 1500+ ordered devices?

I wouldn't be surprised if it's the latter and you are again doing your politician-talk.  

Can you confirm?

[tranquille]

can you stop fucking bitching, yes giorgiomassa was at fault but the desks have been shipping and soon the rigs, you clearly have the option TO GET A DAMN REFUND

You obviously did not spend USD 30k on an order which is 3 months delayed...

It was a pre-order you spend your money on. There was NO product ready to get shipped to you. It was a bet, that they can built that thing and that they can built it in time. The chances were fifty fifty in my eyes. A LOT OF RISK involved.  So, i made a bet with $15k. You doubled. Our bet is going to work, there is a product. Your money is not complete lost.One bet is stil open. The delivery time. I guess no one knows and you cant change it.

So complaint is not allowed?
Is that what it boils down to for you?
While we are raped we might just as well enjoy it?
(After all it's free sex, isn't it?  )

I don't understand the thought of some people here.

Fact is that the information on the bitmine.ch site for months now has been deliberately manipulating the customers into thinking that the risk is very low.
And that you can pay good money to get this low risk.
We were told that should something go wrong, we would get a CPP (everybody assumed an open-ended CPP), and even a 50% turbomode was implied that we could use to make up lost time.
But everything turns out to be a trick.

What good is a turbomode you can't really use ?
What good is a CPP that lets you down after 50% ?

Fact is that many people wouldn't have made orders if they knew how high the risk really is, and that everything bitmine posted was not facts, but assumptions.

So people payed good money, but still got high risk.
So in a way yes they were tricked.

PS: I still hope to get my two devices within the next 3 weeks (I am at 30% CPP at the moment). But I know for sure that I will not recommend or use bitmine ever again. It makes no sense, fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.

it sound for me as an OBSESSIONAL NEUROSIS and NOT like a COMPLAIN. Everytime complaining about the same, the same thing. Sorry, for saying that. You cant wash your bad emotions and feelings here.

Once again since 70 thread pages: No turbomode (as we were all dreaming of and was sold to us), CPP up to 50% (even we were thinking, that will never come in play). Its not just you, who is disappointed and suffer.

What I see is that the pre-order is a legal instrument to buy high end mining asic hardware with alot of fools. Thats the game. Anyway, the good thing is that giorgiomassa is back here in the forum and he did not sell his company to the chinese (joke!) and there will be future chip developments (for taking money out of customers) (joke again!)  

When can we celebrate the 1000th Bitmine DESK device?

Dude - you are the one getting emotional here - not GeorgeM - he was dead on.
If you are happy about the fact that the whole bitmine operation just didn´t go bust by now then you are only showing your low attitude. You obviously don´t care much and probably don´t have much skin in the game.

We can and should list those facts as long as there is no official response from Bitmine; in order to protect future customers of not making the same mistake by ordering with them.

1000 - Desks lol ... the current rate was said to be a maximum of 30 - likely less.
This fact alone shows the level of project management fail at bitmine.

[tranquille]

Once again since 70 thread pages: No turbomode (as we were all dreaming of and was sold to us), CPP up to 50% (even we were thinking, that will never come in play). Its not just you, who is disappointed and suffer.

where is it listed in the CPP it's capped at 50%? None of the website or emails I got when I placed the order mentioned any max limit

Exactly - but Giorgio the Great decided to change his mind on that and not be so generous. (Read his last post on the official thread).

[SolarSilver]

Exactly - but Giorgio the Great decided to change his mind on that and not be so generous. (Read his last post on the official thread).

I've read that post and it contradicts anything Bitmine published on their website and shared with people ordering

If they change their TOS then it should only apply to new orders since the change

[Wolke]

Once again since 70 thread pages: No turbomode (as we were all dreaming of and was sold to us), CPP up to 50% (even we were thinking, that will never come in play). Its not just you, who is disappointed and suffer.

where is it listed in the CPP it's capped at 50%? None of the website or emails I got when I placed the order mentioned any max limit

Exactly - but Giorgio the Great decided to change his mind on that and not be so generous. (Read his last post on the official thread).

have anybody the old orig TOS ?.... i mean, i orderd at that... not on any new tos..

[lossminer]

Once again since 70 thread pages: No turbomode (as we were all dreaming of and was sold to us), CPP up to 50% (even we were thinking, that will never come in play). Its not just you, who is disappointed and suffer.

where is it listed in the CPP it's capped at 50%? None of the website or emails I got when I placed the order mentioned any max limit

Exactly - but Giorgio the Great decided to change his mind on that and not be so generous. (Read his last post on the official thread).

have anybody the old orig TOS ?.... i mean, i orderd at that... not on any new tos..

I have the TOS from November and nothing is changed from todays TOS.

[georgem]

I think the TSO/CPP is still the same, and has never changed (since atleast November 2013 when I first saw it)

http://bitmine.ch/?page_id=850

What has changed is that giorgiomassa made it clear how it has to be interpreted in his last post here:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=291141.msg5362648#msg5362648

I am not sure if giorgiomassa is legally right, or if he has mislead us all with the way the CPP is phrased:

Lets looks at it more clearly:

1) Shipment can be late up to a maximum of 10 days from the agreed shipment date.

2) For each subsequent 10 days of late shipping, we will add for free 10% more hashing power to your order as penalty.

3) After the 61st day of late shipment, you have the right to request a full refund and we will pay you an additional penalty of 10% of the initial order amount.

So giorgiomassa wants to make us believe that the moment paragraph 3) applies, suddenly paragraph 2) becomes invalid, and doesn't apply anymore.


Logic tells me that paragraph 2) does still apply and that's what every customer has assumed too.

Since paragraph 3) clearly mentions an optional action the customer can take (if he chooses to) it makes paragraph 2) look even more valid and untouchable,
since if you don't want you don't have to act upon paragraph 3), you can just ignore it. It's optional.
(Ofcourse should the customer decide to ask for a refund, the CPP together with the complete order is automatically cancelled.
THAT should be the only case when paragraph 2) becomes invalid.)

If paragraph 3) was supposed to invalidate paragraph 2) there should have been a clear formulation that this would be the case.

Giorgiomassa has made a reinterpretation.

What he does is a bit of a stretch: he declares paragraph 2) invalid since he probably assumed that everyone would ask for a refund anyway.
In fact I believe giorgiomassa really hopes and encourages at every chance he gets that we customers should take the refund. I wonder why?
(For example here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=486808.msg5617570#msg5617570 )

PS I am not a lawyer.

[lossminer]

so also the 71th day cancellation is bullshit. It clearly states 61 days. Why would one add the 10 days? Late shipment is late shipment even if 10 days are allowed. Not need to add them up.