The cost of a 28nm wafer is more or less the same as a 130nm wafer. The only real difference is NRE cost and having the expertise to develop on 28nm, that's the real bet.
Bitfury went full-custom standard cell and it worked OK for them, but that's the risk of going full-custom at first. You have the same risk, since your 130nm chip has a lot of sketchy specs. I would rather you commented on those, especially on the part where you claim to develop a faster and more power efficient chip than BFL (also standard cell) with transistors that have DOUBLE the size (130nm vs 65nm) and require much higher voltages (power consumption scales with the square of voltage).
The graph above is for ANY ASIC manufacturer, as it compares a Normalized Transistor Cost (wafer cost + packaging + etc) to a timeline, based on yields/wafer, die sizes and wafer cost. The production costs on new die sizes quickly go down after some time.
And you make a valid point, really. The question is timing. Look at BFL and potentially KnC. Avalon and ASICMiner went with the larger die size. ASICMiner deployed en mass first. Avalon shipped their miners first. Sure, go for the 28 nm but if it takes you 2-4 months longer to receive and deploy, do you still have the advantage? Those that chose the larger die have been mining and now have funds for more R & D. Pick your poison. |
|
|
|
So this is essentially being run like an auction?
I'd have no problem with this if it was made clear in the contract from the beginning. But as it is I think they should wipe the books and stick with the plan. Or is that unrealistic...
Any and all suggestions for "fair distribution", I will direct to burnside.
|
|
|
|
burnside should limit how many shares a person can purchase (although that can be manipulated by opening up several accounts)
it appears people just want to pick up shares assuming price will go up and dump as soon as it does.
Unlikely, this is the "free market." You take the good and the bad, have both or none. If that doesn't float your boat, I suggest checking out NYSE... Hi, As I stated before in other posts, a "regular" IPO lets you buy as many shares as you want before it goes live. Before the official listing, you get the PERCENTAGE of the shares you bought before vs. the number of shares available. That way, the issuer can even adjust the number of shares beforehand to optimize/fine tune the share structure. This should be a model to implement on the digital currency exchanges aswell, as it leads to a fair distribution. I was being facetious when I said "free market", hence the quotes. Any and all suggestions for "fair distribution", I will direct to burnside. Labcoin just reached a high of 0.02/share... Burnside should lock in IPO bids... |
|
|
|
|
IPO is about to be 50% filled... Before the asset is even unlocked...
|
|
|
|
Interesting to see this play out - what happens if more bids are placed then shares when the IPO occurs? Are the shares divided evenly based on order size, or is it first-come first serve (Which would defeat the purpose of the lock, as far as I can tell)
First in, first out. There are multiple orders sitting on 0.001 ( here. Those whose orders are placed > 0.001 will pay the additional coins, when the ask wall is placed. Currently BTC-TC's asset have a combined market cap of ~170k Bitcoin and a daily average volumen of 3700 Bitcoin which peaked at nearly 9.5k a few days before. I don't expect this IPO filled within minutes, but nevertheless in a short timeframe. The fill rate isn't steady and fastens at the end. If you want to be very sure to get your shares, place an order on 0.001. Good luck, LABCOIN! I'm following.  Edit: burnside should limit how many shares a person can purchase (although that can be manipulated by opening up several accounts)
it appears people just want to pick up shares assuming price will go up and dump as soon as it does.
people putting over the ipo price hoping those orders will get filled first and that the price bump will be significant. the things people do to make a buck
No, I'm against any regulation. And it would be crazy if you miss to get shares in an 7000 Bitcoin IPO, because single entitites purchased "too much". The price won't change because of those orders which are higher than the IPO price. Relax please. there's a reason why regulations exist and some of it actually makes sense (not all) - read about why regulations were enacted after the Great Depression. too simple to float around the words anti-regulation. Don't get me wrong, I get why there are rules in place. The thing is we're still in the early "Wild West" days of Bitcoins. Those days will come, for better or worse. Edit: Trolls are now placing bids 2x - 4x IPO price, dear god... |
|
|
|
What is everyone's thoughts on the IPO price. It seems kind of aggressive (meaning high). I realize they are claiming a 35% goal, but .016/share @ 10,000,000 shares is equal to Asicminer @ 1btc/share. Asicminer had consistently delivered and all risk was baked off by that price.
Thoughts?
Aiwill said they plan to deploy in three Chinese cities simultaneously, as well as having sufficient funding to finalize 2nd gen development in 2013. Big risks, big rewards. |
|
|
|
burnside should limit how many shares a person can purchase (although that can be manipulated by opening up several accounts)
it appears people just want to pick up shares assuming price will go up and dump as soon as it does.
Unlikely, this is the "free market." You take the good and the bad, have both or none. If that doesn't float your boat, I suggest checking out NYSE... |
|
|
|
10% yearly share dilution is on the table!
otherwise things sound reasonable. anyone from china can do some background due diligence on these people?
If you read the IPO a bit more carefully, share dilution is there to be used as a last resort only. They do not plan issue any more shares. All 3 conditions must be met before they issue any more shares: 1) 2x dividends paid back for the overall IPO share price; I.e., @0.16/share, they must pay back 0.032/share first. 2) No more shares will be issued until Aug 1, 2014 3) In any drastic network changes where BTCGarden may lose their targeted network portion. Aiwill is aware that investors are wary of dilution. He will make adjustments to clarify the IPO, protecting the interests of early investors. The clause is only mentioned so investors are aware of that possibility. More to come. |
|
|
|
This is crazy...
Agreed. With AM, BTCGarden, and Labcoin, the network hash rate will reach 2 PH/s by Christmas. You have to be brave if you want to own a miner  |
|
|
|
They gave no warning. IPO shares started selling at 1:50 AM in US - they said they would start during US Business day.
Make sure you know what you're talking about before speaking. People have put up bids, NO shares have been sold yet. OK. OK. Why are people putting in bids for much less than the IPO price? Many reasons: hoping someone mistakes a decimal point, someone really needs to liquidate shares for emergency funds, etc. |
|
|
|
They gave no warning. IPO shares started selling at 1:50 AM in US - they said they would start during US Business day.
Make sure you know what you're talking about before speaking. People have put up bids, NO shares have been sold yet. |
|
|
|
We of course don't accept pre-orders.
What we would like to make clear is that this pre-order was not initiated by rockxie himself.
so, when will blades be for sale? we're 1 month late on this (you initially said late June), and I think we'd all appreciate some information on what is the holdup on these blades and when we can expect it them to be ready. Whoa, calm down there. If there are delays, then there are logistical reasons why that's the case. If friedcat needs to reveal why, he'll do so at the according time. No need to get rowdy. |
|
|
|
Btc-garden and labcoin make me very confused, which one is better?
Both are have models to similar ASICMiner: Being able to sustain a portion of the hash rate and have hardware sales, passing proceeds to the investors. Do your research before investing, caveat emptor. |
|
|
|
1 shares= 1/100'000*200TH= 200Mh/s right?
So price per Gh/s is: 5*0.016BTC=0.08?
You need to approach it differently: How much will BTC Garden occupy the total network hash rate? 10-15%? Owning a portion of the company means you get a "percent of a percent." You're not buying bonds but into the company's plan of maintaining a sustained network percentage. |
|
|
|
Amoy bit about the pre-order announcement (July 30)
A new blade because there is little problem to be solved, the factory is temporarily unable to meet delivery schedules, new blade shipments will continue to be delayed.
Two previous pre-orders shipped on schedule, but the product to use 12.8G blade replacement (new unopened just from the factory assembly line), can stabilize around overclocked to 12.8G, voltage and good heat dissipation can be close to 13G. (New blade can not be overclocked)
In addition, in order to repay customers and compensation reserve, price 3BTC, which is 15.88BTC / Taiwan, has been booked all customers will put extra part BTC returned the same day shipment, please contact the respective purchase agent.
3 blade presale stopped, and later no longer pre-sale. (In fact, does not agree with the pre-baked cat is entirely agent behavior
here you are: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=264754.0First of all,the pre-order is rockxie's idea.And,he won't do it any more.Never.Ever. Second,the New&Mini blade still have some problems to be solved.So,more delays.Can't tell the ETA. Third,the pre-order will be replace by the old blade. Or,refund. While we appreciate his ambitions and intent, it's good that it'll stop. ASICMiner is the only company (as of now) that can take payment and ship in a timely manner. Don't want to get into the sinkholes of "other mining companies." |
|
|
|
Amoy bit about the pre-order announcement (July 30)
A new blade because there is little problem to be solved, the factory is temporarily unable to meet delivery schedules, new blade shipments will continue to be delayed.
Two previous pre-orders shipped on schedule, but the product to use 12.8G blade replacement (new unopened just from the factory assembly line), can stabilize around overclocked to 12.8G, voltage and good heat dissipation can be close to 13G. (New blade can not be overclocked)
In addition, in order to repay customers and compensation reserve, price 3BTC, which is 15.88BTC / Taiwan, has been booked all customers will put extra part BTC returned the same day shipment, please contact the respective purchase agent.
3 blade presale stopped, and later no longer pre-sale. (In fact, does not agree with the pre-baked cat is entirely agent behavior
Source? |
|
|
|
|
The end of 2013 will be an arms race with the potential big collective miners (ASICMiner, ActiveMining, BTCGarden, & Labcoin) and everyone else. It's going to be a bloodbath...
|
|
|
|
sorry, at this time you wont like my rates for selling btc. looking to get about 150% of gox high.
OTC is dry.
You're looking for $152/BTC? Really?! If I misread, please correct me. |
|
|
|
This is just AM wanting more than 20%, but on the down low.
If they have so much extra power lying around, why don't they considerably lower their prices and sell out? Most of their hardware is unprofitable at their current prices, and every single product right now will be obsolete not many months from now
They are thinking retaining control is more important than clearing stock. I don't agree.
As a shareholder though, divs are divs; but still, I'd like to know a little about the numbers. How much div is expected per GH on sold products vs how much div would a hosting contract generate in its lifetime.
With the brain trust at BitFountain, don't you think that they've run multiple simulations "what happens if we sell most of our hardware" vs "what happens if we mine with our hardware" and everything in between? Also taking into account difficulty increase? I'm sure they've done this and chosen the one that maximizes profit in both short and long term scenarios. We, as investors, only have a piece of the puzzle. Keep in mind that BitFountain is paid on the dividends as well; they want to maximize output as much as we do, but not at the cost of compromising future returns. |
|
|
|
Will blades go on sale next week?
+1 ETA anyone? Soon TM |
|
|
|
|
Show Posts
