There is a natural appeal to this coin. Beyond that "get it early, just because", appeal.

If you are bitching about the price NOW, then YOU have your head in the wrong place and are one of the DUMPERS. We have no sympathy for you. Your reward will never come. You are looking for short-term investment and easy money.

Those of us mining NOW, for FUTURE VALUE, as with most any coin. Will prevail. The difficulty will climb and fall, as will prices. Each, in turn, affecting the other. We want you to stop mining, if you find no value now. Makes it more valuable for us to mine. As you leave, the difficulty immediately drops (KGW)... We want you to dump now, so we can get your LOSS which will be our GAINS in the future (Volatility)... If you are not buying coins, or willing to pre-pay for the power to mine them, then YOU are the reason YOU don't have value.

Until there are more associated losses, and more distributed losses, there will not be any "real solid value" to the coin. As it stands, there is only about 2 BTC listed to buy... That makes the "Solid value", at 2 BTC for all mined and premined coins, at the moment. That is all that is listed to buy, thus, that is the "value" of all the coins. So selling 1 coin at any price above that average, is a generous offer.

You set your price. If no-one finds that price acceptable at the moment, then tough cookies to you. Cashing-out is not a "crash", a "crash" is when no-one is buying or selling, and there is a giant gap in value. Then the only sales that happen, are below all expected sales. Selling one or two for a low price is not a crash. Just as selling one or two for a high price is not a bubble or the "value" of all coins. Value is the volume of all coins sold, average price for all those coins. That is the "Value". More is a bonus to you selling and a discount/loss form us buying, less is a discount/loss to you selling and a bonus to us buying. Welcome to reality, or rather, virtual-reality.

No-one is forcing you to mine, or buy. However, unless you get off your ass and add value to your assets, then you are just a spectator looking for a free ride. This is not a spectator sport. Lead, follow or step aside...

Ok, so the trades alone are not going to make the coin live... and be self-sustaining, even with the best market manipulation.

What is being done for services, integration, and "Ease of customer use". (Lets face it, these wallets intended for mining and geeks, are NOT customer friendly, at all.)

What we need is a wallet, that is simply a wallet, with wallet-tools. (A KISS program that doesn't require users to create files and open ports and setup RPC and add nodes or show technical useless information, while it actually has the missing user-demanded functions that no wallet has.)

Missing things...
- Manual paper-wallet details (For use to manually back-up or create a wallet and the keys.)
- CSV text-exporting of all wallet addresses, for recreation that the "raw wallet" can not do, when restoring from an older wallet with only the original 100 pre-made addresses in it. The additional addresses beyond that 100 become lost forever. You can never guess what they were. Unless you use a "fixed repeatable pseudo-random number generator and a seed". Which these wallets do not have. They are random by time. Thus, not repeatable.
- CSV text-exporting of transaction data, for records, which can actually be read by spread-sheet programs.
- QR-Codes (Easy and free to add to the wallet.)
- Encryption-safety (Telling people they will lose all the coins in the wallet is not only stupid, but unnecessary. The wallet could easily "create a new encrypted wallet, and simply deposit the coins from the unencrypted wallet, into the encrypted wallet that is made. Then, once successfully transferred, the old unencrypted wallet could be archived, just in-case, and the encrypted wallet made the primary wallet. That was just a way to destroy innocent coins, and did NOT have to be done that way. Don't contribute to that fucked-up programming ethic.)
- No mining crap in the "consumer wallet", that is just bloat.
- Fast-DB, since consumers don't need the WHOLE chain. They only need the portions relevant to them, from the date the wallet was created. In time, they could get the summary or whole compressed DB, but we should be sending them the "fast-db" results only relevant to them. (They still can't spend coins that they don't have, so it would not even matter if the whole chain was complete for them. If they actually need it, then it should be a background thing, not a primary limitation of the wallet.) Only miners need the whole chain. Also, in the event of forking, the wallets need some way to "revert to an earlier date", so they can attempt to get on the right chain. No wallet, to date, does this. We all have to delete the whole chain, revert manually to a back-up if we have one, then attempt to get on the new chain... Repeat if we get screwed and get stuck on the wrong chain again. (EG, give us a block-number to revert to. You UNDO all those blocks, down to the number we set, where we can get to the point before the fork. This number should also be included in any updates, as the last known "forward" point. That, or broadcast by the devs, on the network, between checkpoints.)

Then we need reasons for people to buy the coins, besides hoarding.

Gambling is not a good source of value. People pay, people win, dealers cash-out, winners cash-out. Unless the gambling holds a ton of coins for a long time, it is not a source of value increase. (That would be actual losses, like a wallet-eater or some stupid code like destroying your coins by encrypting your wallet after coins are already in there.)

Someone has to have an easy way to setup shop, without having to be a programmer or linux-user, for integration. (Simple server daemons, exchange-API services, with cut/paste code for common web-shop programs and CMS's. Oh, and something to convince them to have a "buffer" of coins, as instant exchange value, and showing them how to "keep coins" when values are low, and only "direct cash-out" when values are high. If they are willing to take that risk.)

Offline printable QR-coded paper-wallets... (I use the creators code in the link below, for offline wallet creation. It has to be programmed for AIRcoin's attributes.)
https://www.bitaddress.org/bitaddress.org-v2.8.1-SHA1-a6e63f2712851710255a27fa0f22ef7833c2cd07.html
Gotta go to the git-hub and make a branch for AirCoin... (It is intended to be saved to your desktop, and run offline. All code is self-contained in the HTML itself, including the images.)

Paper-wallets are like gift cards... they always have change that is never spent, some get lost, some get destroyed... that is instant value. Not to mention, if they took the time to print a paper-wallet, they are planning on holding securely for a while.

Can you add the link to Poloniex Exchange to the original post, and possibly on the pools pages?

https://poloniex.com/exchange/btc_air

I have it in my favorites, but I had to dig to find it again.

Also a link in the posting where we were trading manually, would be a kind addition. (First and last post, before locking that topic.)

Phinn, what are we looking at here? Was that just a random post... ?

Not only that, but now they have more competition...

AntMiner S2 will be out on April 1st, hashing at 1THs at 1000W... Roughly around $3500.

I am not sure the 1.5THs is enough incentive to stop people from asking for a refund at this point. By AMT's own statement of delivery dates... (Without another update since then.) I have a feeling more people will be calling for refunds, and few new purchases will be made to cover those losses, at these prices. (Still, it would be in their favor, giving refunds for 1.5THs units, taken from 1.2THs purchases that obviously don't have to be delivered for at-least another month, from the dates promised to buyers today.)

Myself, well, I personally have a few weeks left in my thinning patience. Not because I am impatient, but more because at this point, I have no other options available. I feel like this is a loan now. I am thinking about adding on interest.

Going to sleep on it... lol.

Nope, still sitting at home... Waiting, like everyone-else...

My last quoted shipment date has passed now too... Looking to spend the rest of my money on AntMiners now. Just so I have something to consume my time, while I wait for AMT.

They need a new game-plan. At the moment, this one will end-up leaving them out of business before they even begin to ship the 1.2THs miners. (Since they are apparently only shipping the non-THs miners and A1 chips, in the stated "shipped orders".)

Though, bitmine is in the same boat. Same hardware/software issues, stalling the chained chips from operating at the same level as the individual test chips. (I still think it is a data-line length issue. The test-boards all had ribbon-cables or data-lines of equal length. So by resistance, the data-bits are all lined-up. Curving data-lines is like running on an oval-track. The guy on the inside lane has a shorter distance than the guy on the outer-edge. That is why they off-set the starting-positions. To make the finish-line the same distance for them all. Data-lines are the same. One short one, and the bits are all out of sync. Works for lower-frequencies, but dies on faster frequencies where the data should all be aligned. Looks like 8-bits of output and 8-bits of input, or 16-bits of input/output, on the chips. That is a lot of data-lines to equalize with resistance, across the PCB. That, or the use of bit-buffers would work too.)

That is obviously just an empty tower... The second photo, you can see right through the empty face. The machine on the floor in the background, can be seen, as well as the fan on the back. (Through the air-holes.) Not a good fake for an eBay listing. (OMG, he is in Josh's office!) Sure he visited there... Took a pic, and then walked-out to use that as "proof of a miner". lol.

Funny though, that that photo is not published in the forums. (Must be someone selling it, who works there, or visited at the right moment.)

If it was assembled, they would have turned it to show you the boards installed inside, through the giant clear window. Obviously, it is unpopulated.

Notice that guy never shows one actually running. (Obviously, it is in his hands, running... Obviously... You can tell by the photo of the CPU case! ) eBay-Scammer-Fail.

AMT, you got you someone who was inside your building, trying to scam people on eBay now! You know, because they have never shown us those photos.

(Sound familiar... "I got three, and decided to keep two.") I bet he has two listed... or three now... The other fake listings must have sold, or he got busted and they killed his account. Clenell, that is the same guy who showed you the photo of him with josh.. remember? Same exact wording on the auction. New user-name I imagine...

Report him for saying "Paypal or Bitcoin", since bitcoin is still not a valid eBay payment method at the moment.

P.S. That is the note that was on that CPU case, with the chips below... On that same desk... I assume, that was the following day. That guy visited and took the photo... AMT can give ebay that information. I am sure they know, or saw, who that was, that visited that day. He is screwed! lol.

That, or he is giving everyone the $1500 china-miners, selling them at AMT prices. (Nope, never sold anything more than a few thousand $5 items before that point. Funny thing is, he thinks he will have access to that money. Paypal will hold it, until it is delivered and confirmed. However, if someone sends him BTC... He wins. He just has to reject the paypal payers to keep a clean slate.)

That is a normal eBay scammer... sells crap like USB sticks and pre-pay cards... by the thousands... then instantly seems to have big-ticket items like 70" TV's and $15K BTC miners one day... (Looks trusting, look at all those reviews! lol. Sell ten, run away, deliver nothing, make a new account with auto-drop-shipper listings for more $5 items, get tons of good reviews for crap, sell more big-ticket-items, repeat.)

They filed for "Protection", including the "release of seized assets, for use in rehabilitation." (Eg, so they can open-up and continue to operate, to pay-back losses to users and creditors, and operate for profit.)

Gox will be open soon. Doing business as always.

I hate when people quote things out of text, to make it look bad, on purpose. Bankruptcy and bankruptcy protection are NOT the same. One absolves you of debt, one frees you of assets and protects you from being sued by vampires who want to take OUR money. This is the latter one.

That is stopping things like this from happening...
We have hundreds in Gox (Totaling millions as users)
Some have millions in Gox (They TRY to sue, to get their millions, screwing US.)
{That would be creditors and users}

Protection stops them from being able to sue, essentially saying they have to wait, just like we have to wait. (For equal valued loss, or for equal repayment. Gox is going for the latter. It also allows Gox to use some remaining funds to pay bills that are due, needed to operate the company.)

You should see what google-stalking-ads show me...

They must think I am an 85 yr old lesbian, who is into art, technology, BDSM items, mining, and coin-collecting... Gotta love those tracking-cookies and key-word snoopers!

Nope, not yet...

Still waiting for that follow-up reply to the follow-up reply. (They were discussing the situation over the weekend. Just waiting to get an answer from them, on the situation.)

Told them I can be there in a week's time. Also gave them the chance to defer the use of my payment for a product, as an added incentive. (If I were only paid minimum wage, that would be like half a years pay.)

I am sure I am more qualified than most of the people they will end-up hiring. Yet I am willing to take that loss, for the team. (Us miners/customers and them.) I am quite sure I am not overqualified for the position they asked for assistance with. However, my skills and experience would better be used in a position higher than direct assembly. I always worked my way up from the bottom. That is the only true way to get a good understanding of the operations and limitations within an assembly-line setup.

I'll let everyone know what they decide to do, if they contact me again.

I once asked Chuck Norris what time he wakes-up...
He said the sun doesn't rise until he does... (He sleeps late in winter.)

But I failed to get my answer, so I asked... No, what TIME...
That was the last thing I remember...
Now I have a fear of sun-dials... Now I don't wake until the sun sets!

I forgot about Monkey Island and the Lemings...

I think I played Dune also... I forget. Sooo long ago.

Oh remember those top of the line computers...
586 Intels, 133 Mhz (Blazing fast, 166Mhz if you were rich!)
S3 video by Silicon Graphics... (Total crap but better than SVGA)
Sound-Blaster 16 or Dolphin Audio... EAX was a bonus.
8MB of RAM, 16MB if you had a "Gaming computer"
400MB Hard-Drives with 100MB Zip-Drives
Force-Feedback MINI-Gameport controllers
640x480 resolution, 800x600 if you were rich (Which no dos game ran well on)


Oh, that was the next-gen...

Most of us had... this crap...
386/486 Evergreen Overclocked 99Mhz CPU's
SVGA Video
Sound Blaster (The original. You were lucky it had stereo, and MIDI was a bonus.)
256KB RAM, 512KB if you were rich
10MB Hard-Drives, 16MB Hard-Drives if you were rich
7.25 Floppy-Drives, 3.5 Floppy-Drives if you were rich
640x480 16-colors/256-colors-interlaced (16K colors if you were rich)

Oh, that was next-gen too...

Going to spare you the details of these systems...
Amiga (Top of the line media-computer. 16 sound channels. 32K interlaced-colors. Real games)
Commodore Vic-20 (Yummy, audio-tape-drives for data and cartridges!)
IBM-86/186 (With separate math co-processors)
Atari (Yes they made computers too)

Sierra Entertainment games... Almost any of the adventure games they made...
- Kings Quest series 1-8
- Space Quest series 1-6
- Police Quest series 1-3

Zork series... Forget which games...

Dungeon-Master series

Hexen

Doom

Might and Magic

Grand Theft Auto (Free!)

Actually, it still exists... a website you can play DOS games online, free. Good classics...
http://www.classicdosgames.com/online.html

Ouch, that's a tough one...

I think complexity is the one attribute all the games hold in common. Also, I believe it is the greatest thing that ever held them back.

In all honesty though, it is the people you play with, which determines the quality and difficulty. Some people get hung-up on rolling the dice and micro-management of every damn aspect... While others actually focus on the actual "story creation", which was most games intention... Then others throw all that out the window, and just go free-for-all, only taking note of "rules". (Those are the real fun ones. However, you don't actually get much content, just a lot of laughs.)

For RPG's, I would say that the old D&D is the easiest to learn. The actual original box-set comes with an easy to follow, and play, adventure. They give you a real limited taste of the game. Something like only five or six character-classes, simplified rules, and limited supplies like weapons and food. It is a real "out in the rough", starting game. (It was enough to get a bunch of people hooked for more detail, so I still believe that is one of the best starting places.)

I think GURPS (Generic Universal Role Play System) would be the next step up. They use super-simplified rules which I think they setup as the "D-20" rules too. (D-20 is one 20-sided Dice, to play the whole game. As opposed to the classic set of dice, which was... D-20, D-12, D-10, D-8, D-6, D-4... Yea, a lot of dice. All for odds.)

You would have to pick just one format you like, to play any of the GURPS games.

For example, they have adventures and specific rules or expansions for things like this...
Star-wars systems
Worlds of magic
Worlds of psychics
Mid-evil (fantasy and reality)
Super-powers
Time-travelers
Prehistoric adventures
Ninjas
Robots
etc...

Pallalidium did the same thing, but using their own set of rules, which were also intended to be generic... However, it created the game "Rifts", as a generic "World" instead. The worlds attributes is what actually allows all those separate contents to exist in one place, at once. (As opposed to being Ninja's in old-world Japan, and being robots in the future, and being magical and psychic at the same time, all in present day.)

However, because of that odd world unity... The rules became a little more complex.

If complex didn't scare you... I would have said 40K Warhammer or Mech-Warriors. (They are both complex, where they need to be. However, there is not much content, just technical warfare battles to conquer and collect remains of those who fall.)

If you like card-games (For table-top stuff)... "Magic the gathering" and "Pokemon" are still real popular. Not my thing, but it still has a growing base of followers. Gets interesting with adults playing, as they tend to bet more. Apparently, this is where a lot of kids learn about betting, losses, and value. lol. I watched people bet entire collections against one another, money, and acts of personal humiliation... Was entertaining to watch, but I didn't have a clue how to tell who was winning or losing, unless you read their futile poker-faces.

Oh, also GURPS has a lot of "pocket-games"... Super condensed rules and adventures. Made to jump right into a game and start playing mini-adventures. (That is where I got my first games, "Car Wars", and "Vampires". They were fun for about a month, then I had to expand. )

Any-one else feel free to chime-in, if you have other opinions or suggestions.

Funny stories would be appreciated too.

Just bored, looking to fill time. I was curious if anyone here ever played "Rifts", the RPG game by Kevin Siembieda of "Palladium Books".

After seeing the artwork from the game "Destiny", and after having played "Fallout 3", I kept having flashbacks to that game. Well, that and the old Battle-Mech game. (The RPG, not the video-games. Though the video-games were fun for a bit too. They just didn't capture the point of wielding all that power correctly. Always felt drunk playing the computer-game. lol. Though, I think I was actually always drunk, playing the RPG table-top game anyways. That part is fuzzy.)

Anywho, I saw that they started listing a bunch of older books for sale again. However, they refuse to accept PayPal, and I forgot to push Bitcoins, which I assume they would be more receptive to. I got pissed that no-one there was willing to accept PayPal for my $300 order I just placed. lol. So I hung-up and went right to eBay instead. (Now I own half their damn collection, and eBay members got a nice $1000 worth of my funds.)

Not that I was going to play again... I just wanted it to have in my collection. Loved the art-work.

So... Are there any old-school players here, or new ones?

I also played old D&D, and "Car Wars" by Steve Jackson, the creator of "GURPS". However, I think I enjoyed Rifts better. Might have been the alcohol and creative people I played with. I don't think there was ever a serious moment in any of our games. Pure random torture to each-other, and from the game-master. (Oh, how I hate that title... lol. Should have been called the "Annoying guy who loved to torment others". Ok, Game-master is much shorter, and rolls off the tongue better.)

For those who have no idea what "Rifts" is...

Take "World of Warcraft Online", merge that with "Skyrim", merge that with "Fallout 3", merge that with "Grand Theft Auto XVIIXMCXVII", merge that with "Crysis", merge that with "Destiny", merge that with "Tomb Raider XCVMCXII", merge that with "Star Wars", and then shake and stir until you are completely shit-faced.

Spend ten days making a character, perfectly for your needs... Then have a game-master throw you into situations where all that perfection is useless... Before killing your hard work, or dragging your half-dead character around the world. Ultimately, resurrecting you, to kill you again, over and over. Good times!

Step 1: Make it
Step 2: Make it function
Step 3: Make it function better
Step 4: Make it function better, for less
Step 5: Make it function better, for less, faster than the Chinese!

I think Americans like to stop at step 3, until a CEO decides he needs more money, then they do step 4, then the rest of the CEO's decide they want more money and let China do step 5 for them. Which is usually where they die as a company.

<-- American

If you got real desperate for cooling... You could cram a few thin-walled copper pipes (used for ice-makers in fridges), in-between a few slots. Pipe those to a decent water reservoir and radiator from a used dirt-bike, and you are good. (Those are cheaper than the stupid CPU radiators that are all over-priced.)

Like I said, I was going to have fun playing with my units.

P.S. Better to place the radiator outside... Even better if you put it over the AC unit air-flow... Since that pushes a decent flow of desirable air into the radiator, that would also have it's own pulling fan on it. But that is if you had more than one unit. lol. Only "I" would do that for one unit... Just because I could.

My unit would more than likely just end-up in the garage or on the porch, where it is always free natural cooling. Gotta love that humidity! It sucks-up heat from radiating aluminum like it were starving for it! (No, the humidity does not hurt the electronics. Condensation does not settle on hot surfaces, unless the humidity is hotter than the surface itself. 98F is cold to a 105F-180F GPU/CPU/ASIC. )

Also note... Dry home-air is bad for cooling electronics... Great for cooling YOU because you perspire. You have your own water reservoir and you are actually a heat-pipe losing heat through evaporative cooling as your perspiration evaporates into the cool-dry air. You need humidity in the air to help capture the thermal radiation. Water is tuned to capture it better than dry air, but not by much.

That is why we all think fans provide cooling... they cool us... (Actually they just push-away our perspired humidity. A fan in a room, without you in it, actually gets hotter, not cooler. With you in it, it gets even hotter... Ironic! But you feel cooler! Though you would eventually overheat, like being inside a convection oven. Just open a window. lol.)

P.P.S. Ceiling fans are the stupidest invention to run in summer-time... they generate heat and push all the hot air from the ceiling, onto you. Heat radiating from your 205F roof, blasting at you, through the insulation... The 250w motor pissing-out heat... Get a floor fan, where the cool air is at. Much better! Lower wattage too!

That, or soak your hands under the faucet... free cooling 65F... Well, every 50 gallons they charge you a few pennies!

FCC is fast, like 1 month... Less if you exclude it as a proximity device, or limited operation device. (There is even a free service to apply for you, after they test it.)

But that would only be the board, not the unit. Since the PSU and other components are already FCC approved.

As for heat dissipation... You need only fast air evacuation and a slight turbulence at the cooling-fins with slight positive air-pressure for better thermal transfer. That, or an even evacuation, which requires negative pressure and guided air through shrouds.

The shorter the path, the better. (The optimal design would have been the fins going the other way. Going the length, they pull heat from the front, down to the back, which travels quickly back up to the front, through the heat-sink itself.)

The more fins or surface/area the better, on aluminum's thermal-reflective surface. (Sand-blasting the surface actually helps to increase the surface-area and create some additional turbulence for transferal-time. Rolled micro-slots would be better, like the inside of a water-block.)

With open-air design, most of the air-flow passes right over the unit. However, the thermal reflections have more space to radiate into the highly thermally resistive air. Great if you have a decent reflective design, and not a dissipation or transferal design. This design, however, seems to be a dissipation and transferal design. Indicated by the volume of aluminum used and the parallel fins. For that, you want direct flow in and out, with slight positive pressure in the case. (Not an efficient design, but one that everyone keeps using, for simplicity and cost-savings.)

KNC's secret is the heat-pipes, going to multi-finned radiators that all have independent negative-pressure fans, I believe. That is negated by trapping those individual units within an aluminum box. They are not ones to model as a "good design". That is like 90% of the crappy GPU's that just blow the heat back into the CPU case, with the hope that you have enough case-fans to pull out the power. P.S. Case fans create more heat... From the PSU and from the fan stepper-motor itself. It only pulls-in more dust and that stops the effectiveness of having all those fans in the first-place. Unless you operate in a clean-room with a hepa-filter, down to 0.00001 microns.

LOUD NOISES!

Ignore the hate... They have little to contribute to anyone's interest but their own.

On the other hand, I have given-up my vested interest, as I mentioned in the prior posts, so that others gain.

There is actually a bunch of good potential assemblers in the alt-coin forums here. Many of which have previously built many good GPU setups. They too, might be as eager as I, to give you some desired assistance.

I see that as a bonus. One of the few miner companies willing to actually include the bitcoin community directly. However, if this forum thread has shown you one thing, it is that you DO have to be careful who you invite into your home. Anyone can see that an obviously bad person is bad... it is the ones who look good, but are actually bad, that you have to be cautious of.

Don't worry, once I am there, driving around on my solowheel in the city... I will be stopping and talking to everyone. They will all know where I work, how much the thing between my legs costs (the solowheel), and also that I bought it with bitcoins. I get stopped by two-three people every day now. I tell them what I do for a job, then I tell them what I do for a living. They all think about bitcoins after that.

The updated specs for the new 1.2THs miners are as follows... (As updated from almost a month ago.)
900w-1200w (Which we requested to be listed as "at the wall" unit-consumption, not post-PSU chip-consumption. Chip-consumption is still 600-900W, I would imagine.)

That is for the 5-module 1.2THs units, I believe. Since the 6-module units are NOT 1.2THs, but 1.5THs units. (And thus, will not consume the same stated power. However, they should, potentially, be able to operate as a 1.2THs miner, consuming less power than the 1.2THs miner. Since the chips would be operating below "normal" settings and there would be more chips.)

There is a power-consumption break-down in another thread, but it uses a highly over-rated PSU which would not be a proper representation of these units actual consumption. Also, he only adjusts the clock frequency, not the voltage, and only takes it down to 68% of the nominal chip-clock-speed. Getting results near 1W/GHs measured at the wall with a 3-card unit on a 1000W PSU which would only be about 60% efficient at that under-rated load. That is not on an AMT board though. (Not sure what exact setup controls they have for the unit.)