Yah, made me wonder though. Is around 1% not a lousy result for a trader when BTC has gone up like $80 to $100?!
Wow, other naysayers are saying their results are unrealistic! He's just pointing out that the scammers have no idea how actual profits from abitrage would vary depending on the market conditions. |
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I'm curious about whether the people, who seem to have made it their sole purpose in life to tear down Bitcoin Trader, are making more money to do so than the people who happily invest here?
Probably not as curious as I am about how many accounts you've made to defend your scheme. We're probably using a lot less time exposing your scam than you are creating and defending it. |
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And even if they were there is no way to know if they will eventually repay. Legitimate business can fail to repay their creditors too.
The difference is, in a ponzi the only business plan they have is to not repay the creditors. |
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This makes even less sense than your previous statements.
Just say you have a gut feeling against them and be done with it, it is perfectly fine and understandable given the environment.
No need for feelings, they are doing too many things that only makes sense if they're a ponzi. Your "due dilligence" can be nothing more than a gut feeling though, because there are no independently verifiable facts to indicate that they are a legitimate business. |
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Let's assume for a moment that they are legit and not seasoned criminals, what would you do in their shoes to get more sales of Mining Share?
If they were legit they would have known how to do it from the start. I see no reason to help them stop making the mistakes that exposes them. |
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It is declining and will decline more and more as market stabilizes, eventually they will quit or switch to something different. Their public relations man (Michael Brandenburg) pointed out that they are purchasing Scrypt miners to revalue mining shares that have negative returns as of today.
Just as I said they would claim to do. These people are just so nice. Why can't cex.io be more like them, and give more mining power for free to everyone who has bought mining contracts that are no longer profitable? |
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2 seems harsh, they would have stopped deposits already since minimum contract duration is 120 days.
No, of course they wouldn't. |
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I can't say anything for sure, but these reasons you provided are pretty silly. Automatic trade within an exchange is easy to do, automatic arbitrage between exchanges is extremely difficult to implement, fund and mantain. They have software to aid them for sure but 100% auto? Crazy.
You clearly have no idea how real arbitrage trading works and you're not going to listen to anyone who might burst your bubble, so why bother. I didn't expect anyone to repeat it successfully less than a year after Pirate was caught, but I guess Barnum got it right. |
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As long as you can buy X BTC at an average price Y at exchange 1 while you sell X btc at an average price Z>Y at exchange 2 you should do it. X's size doesn't matter.
Of course X matters. The profit (before transaction costs) will be X*(Z-Y), which makes the size of X just as important as the size of the spread. If X is just $1/day there's not really much point. The fact that Bitcoin-trader claims to have about the same profit level now as in the beginning is just more evidence that they are lying and that it's a ponzi. Another evidence is their claim of not trading on weekends. Anyone doing real Bitcoin arbitrage knows that you need to automate it, and when that's done there's no reason for not running it 24/7. |
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The reason why the hashrate is gradually increased was explained via newsletter --> cheaper mining equipment.
Except it's not only cheaper, it's free to everyone who bought shares earlier. There is no way for that to make economic sense. |
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AFAIK they aren't selling you GHS like Cex.io does. they are selling you a contract for a year. The information you are looking for is here: https://bitcoin-trader.biz/mining.php --> ~10 TH for 1700 shares so each 100$ share rents ~5,88235 GHs for a year. Sorry I didn't see that. They've opted for my alternative #2, having numbers that don't make sense. They do explain how they are likely to solve the problem you've pointed out of negative return though. They'll just let each share magically represent a higher hashing rate, like they did in April. That way it will keep looking very profitable. |
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Do you have any reason at all to call BT a Ponzi instead of a serious business?
Perhaps because there is nothing to indicate that it is a serious business? Even if you ignore the ridiculously high profits they are claiming, the whole site is just silly. For instance they are not showing any of the information any proper business in the areas they claim to be dealing in, would have. I can understand that most people don't know what to look for when it comes to arbitrage. However, in the mining part pretty much everyone should know enough to ask for what kind of hardware they are using, and the amount of Ghash the shares represent. BTs problem is that if their customers had those numbers it would be easy to calculate that they are lying about either the price of the Ghash, or the profits. |
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How do you know all this, did Yonce tell you?
No need, it's obvious to anyone with a clue. |
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Arbitrage isn't ponzi lol.
I put in $500 just to test it out and have averaged 1% a day(days they traded) and have been paid promptly when I requested it.
Wow, you sure know how to spot ponzies... Of course they claim to have a legitimate business modell, and of course they are paying at the moment. It would be a pretty crappy ponzi if they admitted to be running a ponzi and only paid some of the withdrawals from the start. |
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Which is not permitted by the TOS and could result in both accounts to be suspended without refund - what I agree is the right way to do.
Who cares what the TOS says in a ponzi? That's what will happen to everyone eventually. |
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Or just cut out the middle man. Create a user, use its referral to create another, deposit, and then withdraw everything. Instant profit until the ponzi folds.
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I'm sure you'll convince some people who are as clueless as you are about these things, but here's a new word for you: non-fungibility |
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Unless WU starts suing everybody doing Bitcoin transfers. Governments might decide that this is a good pretense for getting rid of uncontrolled Bitcoin transfers, and enforce the patent.
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there's some trading/results history on their website ...
also, they have an "extra" income from mining, not just the damn arbitrage.
they sell the mining shares to complement the trading shares.
There is no mining and no trading, and the numbers are all made up to make suckers give them money. Every good ponzi needs a way to convince their victims that it's legitimate, and this is their way. |
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using unknown methods which they claim are giving unheard of profits Method=Arbitrage. Known and not Rocket science to understand. Or at least that's what he's written on the black box. |
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