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381  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: September 15, 2015, 11:14:42 AM
I think it's a good sign that we are still holding at 230 knowing all the economic turmoil happening lately with many countries. Lets see where things will lead in the next 4 months.

there are currently no economic turmoil... We currently just have concerns because the growth especially of china is slowing down. They always had double digits growth and is now slowing down to 5-7%.. Once their GDP starts going negative, then we can start talking about economic turmoil..


Looks like bitcoin has had its prime time as it seems...

When global debt growth is more than global gdp growth, there is a problem.
382  Economy / Games and rounds / Re: CoinWallet.eu Stress Test Cancelled + Bitcoin Giveaway on: September 11, 2015, 03:30:40 PM
I am getting this error whenever i try to load sweep the private keys into my wallet..

error: This wallet contains a very large number of small unspent inputs. Ignoring some.

You didn't expect easy free Bitcoins, did you? Importing these private keys will stress test the network itself, and anyone trying to do so is doing Coinwallet's dirty work for them.

Importing the keys will not stress the network, but broadcasting transactions from the UTXOs would.  However, a miner could clear the UTXOs and reap them as fees.  This would ultimately help the network (reduce the UTXO set) and they wouldn't have to broadcast any transactions that would clog the mempool.  The transaction would have to be broadcast to verify the block, but it does not need to take up space in the mempool.
383  Economy / Speculation / Re: When will bitcoin reach 500 USD again ? on: September 10, 2015, 03:33:04 PM
2342 hours
384  Economy / Speculation / Re: Analysis never ends on: September 09, 2015, 03:28:21 AM
The bigger picture is difficult to place a finger on. Hard to say if we are ranging or still continuing the epic down trend from the end of 2013. I'm looking at 4h and daily though -- it certainly looks to me like we are approaching the end of a C wave..... I believe we will top out in the high 240s/low 250s (if we haven't already). Don't know if we can expect a B wave in a longer term range situation, or the beginning of a strong move down. But I do believe we are near a local top. I have closed longs and am waiting in USD, considering the right time to enter a short position.

Good luck to you sir.
385  Economy / Speculation / Re: rpietila Wall Observer - the Quality TA Thread ;) on: September 09, 2015, 03:24:13 AM
Right, Ok so my misunderstanding on this scaling debate comes down to one question.

Assuming vast quantities of transactions, and no restrictions on block size.  Where is the primary processing/storage bottleneck? Is it in the temporary size of the mempool, (pre processing), or the permanent size of the blockchain? (post processing)

Bottleneck is definitely storage, not processing with current technology.  There are some things in the pipeline that should help quite a bit with fast access to large data sets that should begin rolling out over the next two years.

UTXO is the larger concern.  However, not all transactions increase the UTXO set and some decrease it (lots of inputs to a single output).
386  Economy / Speculation / Re: rpietila Wall Observer - the Quality TA Thread ;) on: September 08, 2015, 07:25:13 PM

Thanks for the info. The idea is to make the cost of sending the spam comparable to the cost of cleaning up the spam, which makes a lot of sense. Min TX fees can work as an anti spam measure, and can be applied without hard forking the coin if enough nodes simply refuse to relay transactions without the min TX fee.


Forgive the ignorance as i'm not a coder.   Embarrassed

If the unconfirmed transactions UXTO are stored in the mempool, (effectively distributed cloud storage). Surely this provides the natural free market limit and restricts spam.

For example if i'm a full node or solo miner, I clearly can't store every tiny unconfirmed transaction. Therefore just limit my mempool (storage space) with a filter to a certain size, and filter on say; fee paying transactions, or only including transactions over a certain quantity of satoshis.

Larger miners, Pools or super nodes will be able to afford broader limits on their filters and store more UXTO.  As enough transactions get stored in the UXTO set eventually fee market will emerge, Some transactions are worth storing until they get confirmed while others are not and should drop out.

Certain companies say NASDAQ who are just using the single satoshi as a coloured coin (hence, zero fee) will clearly have to sponsor miners to store and confirm these.

What am I missing ?

I think you are confusing UTXO and unconfirmed transactions.  The UTXO set is all confirmed transactions that have unspent outputs.
387  Economy / Speculation / Re: $220-240 range.. on: September 04, 2015, 04:25:27 PM
I'm out of Bitcoin right now and am just watching things unfold. If it stays in this range, and there is clarity with the XT/Blocksize debate, then I would buy back in. But I can't see a reason for it to rally in the short term, and if it does creep up I'd be wary of a quick pump and dump. Another reason to hold off from buying right now is the upcoming Agora Marketplace closure. The site has given due notice but when it goes down many people could cash out as there is one less reason to use Bitcoin. This darknet site operated a huge economy, worked efficiently (the now defunct Silk Road had little if any buyer protection for example, but Agora is excellent in this regard) and people are wary of alternatives, rightfully so.

Silk road had escrow.  What does Agora have that is different?
388  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: September 03, 2015, 01:38:43 PM
Food for thought:

If bitcoinXT doesn't get adopted it has proven that bitcoin will not be replaced by a better alt-coin.

No, it proves that Bitcoin will not be replaced by BitcoinXT.  Anything else is overgeneralization.
389  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: September 03, 2015, 01:31:22 PM

Many people mocked me many pages ago for my concern that the block size could not simply scale exponentially for the next 20 years, but I still believe we are reaching the limits of physics and any further significant exponential type gains in computing power beyond asic will likely take us beyond the singularity. I just hope our new synthetic overlords accept bitcoin. (Ok, yes, I've been watching too much humans (tv show))

Block size MUST scale exponentially whether it's simple or not. A crypto with a block size limit is analogous to an Internet with a bandwidth limit of 56K modems.  No video. No VOIP. Vastly more limited functionality.  It may be hard, but don't fucking tell me it's impossible. Some other crypto will do it if we don't.

You are clearly clueless about why the block size limit is necessary and there in the first place. Go back to your homeworks. First assignement:

https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2015-May/007880.html

Code:
To elaborate, in my view there is a at least a two fold concern on this
particular ("Long term Mining incentives") front:

One is that the long-held argument is that security of the Bitcoin system
in the long term depends on fee income funding autonomous, anonymous,
decentralized miners profitably applying enough hash-power to make
reorganizations infeasible.

For fees to achieve this purpose, there seemingly must be an effective
scarcity of capacity.  The fact that verifying and transmitting
transactions has a cost isn't enough, because all the funds go to pay
that cost and none to the POW "artificial" cost; e.g., if verification
costs 1 then the market price for fees should converge to 1, and POW
cost will converge towards zero because they adapt to whatever is
being applied. Moreover, the transmission and verification costs can
be perfectly amortized by using large centralized pools (and efficient
differential block transmission like the "O(1)" idea) as you can verify
one time instead of N times, so to the extent that verification/bandwidth
is a non-negligible cost to miners at all, it's a strong pressure to
centralize.  You can understand this intuitively: think for example of
carbon credit cap-and-trade: the trade part doesn't work without an
actual cap; if everyone was born with a 1000 petaton carbon balance,
the market price for credits would be zero and the program couldn't hope
to share behavior. In the case of mining, we're trying to optimize the
social good of POW security. (But the analogy applies in other ways too:
increases to the chain side are largely an externality; miners enjoy the
benefits, everyone else takes the costs--either in reduced security or
higher node operating else.)

This area has been subject to a small amount of academic research
(e.g. http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2400519). But
there is still much that is unclear.

The second is that when subsidy has fallen well below fees, the incentive
to move the blockchain forward goes away.  An optimal rational miner
would be best off forking off the current best block in order to capture
its fees, rather than moving the blockchain forward, until they hit
the maximum. That's where the "backlog" comment comes from, since when
there is a sufficient backlog it's better to go forward.  I'm not aware
of specific research into this subquestion; it's somewhat fuzzy because
of uncertainty about the security model. If we try to say that Bitcoin
should work even in the face of most miners being profit-maximizing
instead of altruistically-honest, we must assume the chain will not
more forward so long as a block isn't full.  In reality there is more
altruism than zero; there are public pressures; there is laziness, etc.

There will never be no limit.  Sure, we could remove the limit from consensus requirements (which I would actually support), but transactions still have a cost.  They have to be verified and then stored until all outputs are spent.  This requires storage hardware and bandwidth.  Also, larger blocks will be orphaned more frequently, providing additional pressure for miners to voluntarily keep blocks small.

Did you bother reading this part?

Quote
The fact that verifying and transmitting transactions has a cost isn't enough, because all the funds go to pay that cost and none to the POW "artificial" cost; e.g., if verification costs 1 then the market price for fees should converge to 1, and POW cost will converge towards zero because they adapt to whatever is being applied. Moreover, the transmission and verification costs can be perfectly amortized by using large centralized pools (and efficient differential block transmission like the "O(1)" idea) as you can verify one time instead of N times, so to the extent that verification/bandwidth is a non-negligible cost to miners at all, it's a strong pressure to centralize.

This pressure for miners to keep blocks small is temporary and will eventually decline and disappear, it's already starting to seeing as numerous improvements have been made in improving general block propagation time between miners.

I read the whole thing.  I'll believe O (1) block propagation when I see an implementation  (or at least a reasonable explanation of how it could be implemented).

Besides, the vast majority of miners use pools anyway.  How would larger blocks change anything?
390  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: September 03, 2015, 05:18:54 AM

Many people mocked me many pages ago for my concern that the block size could not simply scale exponentially for the next 20 years, but I still believe we are reaching the limits of physics and any further significant exponential type gains in computing power beyond asic will likely take us beyond the singularity. I just hope our new synthetic overlords accept bitcoin. (Ok, yes, I've been watching too much humans (tv show))

Block size MUST scale exponentially whether it's simple or not. A crypto with a block size limit is analogous to an Internet with a bandwidth limit of 56K modems.  No video. No VOIP. Vastly more limited functionality.  It may be hard, but don't fucking tell me it's impossible. Some other crypto will do it if we don't.

You are clearly clueless about why the block size limit is necessary and there in the first place. Go back to your homeworks. First assignement:

https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2015-May/007880.html

Code:
To elaborate, in my view there is a at least a two fold concern on this
particular ("Long term Mining incentives") front:

One is that the long-held argument is that security of the Bitcoin system
in the long term depends on fee income funding autonomous, anonymous,
decentralized miners profitably applying enough hash-power to make
reorganizations infeasible.

For fees to achieve this purpose, there seemingly must be an effective
scarcity of capacity.  The fact that verifying and transmitting
transactions has a cost isn't enough, because all the funds go to pay
that cost and none to the POW "artificial" cost; e.g., if verification
costs 1 then the market price for fees should converge to 1, and POW
cost will converge towards zero because they adapt to whatever is
being applied. Moreover, the transmission and verification costs can
be perfectly amortized by using large centralized pools (and efficient
differential block transmission like the "O(1)" idea) as you can verify
one time instead of N times, so to the extent that verification/bandwidth
is a non-negligible cost to miners at all, it's a strong pressure to
centralize.  You can understand this intuitively: think for example of
carbon credit cap-and-trade: the trade part doesn't work without an
actual cap; if everyone was born with a 1000 petaton carbon balance,
the market price for credits would be zero and the program couldn't hope
to share behavior. In the case of mining, we're trying to optimize the
social good of POW security. (But the analogy applies in other ways too:
increases to the chain side are largely an externality; miners enjoy the
benefits, everyone else takes the costs--either in reduced security or
higher node operating else.)

This area has been subject to a small amount of academic research
(e.g. http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2400519). But
there is still much that is unclear.

The second is that when subsidy has fallen well below fees, the incentive
to move the blockchain forward goes away.  An optimal rational miner
would be best off forking off the current best block in order to capture
its fees, rather than moving the blockchain forward, until they hit
the maximum. That's where the "backlog" comment comes from, since when
there is a sufficient backlog it's better to go forward.  I'm not aware
of specific research into this subquestion; it's somewhat fuzzy because
of uncertainty about the security model. If we try to say that Bitcoin
should work even in the face of most miners being profit-maximizing
instead of altruistically-honest, we must assume the chain will not
more forward so long as a block isn't full.  In reality there is more
altruism than zero; there are public pressures; there is laziness, etc.

There will never be no limit.  Sure, we could remove the limit from consensus requirements (which I would actually support), but transactions still have a cost.  They have to be verified and then stored until all outputs are spent.  This requires storage hardware and bandwidth.  Also, larger blocks will be orphaned more frequently, providing additional pressure for miners to voluntarily keep blocks small.
391  Economy / Speculation / Re: Analysis never ends on: September 03, 2015, 05:04:24 AM
So, what's next? Wave I ?

It will be a looong story.... 1 I will recognize in running 3. Its a three-five years.

:-) I'm sure it is not possible to keep $230 price for next 3-5 years. I'm also sure we cannot go down. => so we will go up drastically THIS year

Time to put in your longs boys and girls! I'm bullish, but then again I always am. I put in some trades from time to time when the market makes certain patterns. I took a long position 3-4 days ago and I plan to hold it for over a week. I expect we'll be in the $250-260 range this weekend followed by a rise to over $300.

What indicator would lead you to believe this? Outside of some major news item I don't see how we make any significant move as long as the block size boogeyman looms

Shh... we can't talk talk about fundamentals affecting sentiment here... this thread is for Lucifer's technical analysis only  Tongue
392  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: September 02, 2015, 03:36:36 AM
Someone many pages back linked the Gavin interview, https://youtu.be/B8l11q9hsJM

Pay special attention at roughly 1:14:40 , the first and maybe only interesting question, let me paraphrase:

Brian: "so, if this fork succeeds, how will decisions be made in the future?"

Gavin: "Mike Hearn will be the benevolent dictator, he will be the ultimate decision maker."

...

He goes on to explain how he does not want to be in complete control, nor do any of the devs that currently have commit ability, but he is completely happy and ok with Mike as the sole controller and decider. He even goes in to mention that future changes will be much easier and will happen much more quickly once this change is made.

I know XT is already dead, but I just wanted to point out to anyone that was still unconvinced that Gavin has been compromised... He is either completely brain dead, or he is deliberately trying to end bitcoin's function as a permissionless, censorship-proof means of storing and transmitting value.

This is silly. What makes you think that people couldn't just as easily fork away from Hearn's XT?

The Core/XT devs are not the Federal Reserve Board, they serve at the behest of the miners and the community. Forking or threatening to fork is the only relief valve on their power.

BTW I agree that 75% of the network moving to BIP101 seems very unlikely now, but my above point remains.

"The path of lost freedom is a gradual, slippery slope; whilst the recovery of such is a brutal hill to climb."



Software stagnates without strong leadership to force a decision.  However, the freedom to fork cannot and will not be eroded.  Just go to the githhub page and click fork.  Make the  change Hearn has rejected and rally the community behind it.

A code base needs a maintainer but that maintainer's position is only secure for as long as they have the backing of the community.  This is how open source works.
393  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Percentage of XT nodes... on: September 01, 2015, 10:23:52 PM
I don't think xt is ever going to get those 75% they desire, but on another hand ; what's stopping them from releasing a client that doesn't have that 75% requirement,
but rather 15 or 20%. It would definetly shake up the price even more.. Let's just hope this goes away before we get near the halving, or we won't have 400+ prices next year for sure.

Because a requirement less than 50% would put them on a shorter fork.
394  Economy / Speculation / Re: Analysis never ends on: September 01, 2015, 09:23:17 PM
Either bitcoin is an Investment commodity (the ultimate one!) that you hold and speculate on
Or internet *stable* cash money that you you keep on spending

But the latter is not synonym with moonlanding.

And thinking you can have both is ATH delusions.

I don't need to have both at the same time. Alternatingly is fine with me.


+1

it depends on internet cash money for how many users(?). if a billion people decide to use it, price has to go to the moon.

if it stays an investment commodity for a few 100k speculators, price may go to the moon.


If a billion people decided to use it for internet cash money we would need MUCH larger blocks.
395  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: September 01, 2015, 03:31:51 PM
Every global stock and commodity is gapping down, bitcoin slightly rising.

Bullish.

have you every look at a graph ?

Bitcoin is far far far far away from slightly rising...

Yep I have.  Hashrate continuing to climb steadily as well.

Double bullish.

True diff is rocketing, what will happen if diff double from here to halving?

Bullish as hell  Shocked

I would not call this rocketing.



But hey, everything better than a fall.


Meh, we had a hashrate fall around the $2 bottom... then up to $260ish...  I say let's see miners capitulate.
396  Economy / Speculation / Re: Analysis never ends on: August 28, 2015, 09:25:25 PM
confirmed inverted H&S ,1h   Grin

What are you smoking?
397  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: August 28, 2015, 01:18:39 AM


... sounds like consensus to me, tally-ho game on.

Me as well, I like the fact that it was a quicke.

Gives inordinate power to miners.

You mean like the ability to decide which transactions to include and which blocks to build on?
398  Economy / Speculation / Re: We will break $200 again on: August 28, 2015, 12:42:19 AM
Double-digits are possible. The protocol marches on relentlessly creating new bitcoin whether there's demand for them or not.

All the evidence so far indicates that bitcoin does poorly when the Chinese economy does poorly. Bitcoin is always down when the Chinese markets plunge.
The euro, Japanese yen, and Chinese yuan are all losing purchasing power. It's barely begun. Euro:dollar parity and 140 yen per dollar draw nearer. Even if people spend the same amount of fiat on bitcoin as before, they will end up supporting the price less because their currencies will be worth less.

Those with USD income will experience more purchasing power, but it will be canceled out by the increasing heaviness of their own USD-denominated debt: mortgages, student loans, sovereign debt, etc.

If bitcoin's price was going to break through $300 and stay there, then it would've happened on one of the past three attempts. There's no killer app here that can reverse the macroeconomic picture.

Many overeager bitcoin startups will go out of business. Many longs will be liquidated. (Going short is also dangerous because it doesn't take much money to spike the price and liquidate everyone.)

So if I were to have USD income and no debt I would win?
399  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: August 27, 2015, 03:48:46 PM
Was trading stopped on Bitfinex again?

There was a big gap when no trades occurred and all the other exchanges were trading during it. There have been so many gaps when trading was stopped on Bitfinex that I have come to expect it now.



the conversation with the bitfinex CTO yesterday night showed pretty clearly how incompetent they are. And as it seems there is no sign for it to get better anytime in the near future.

I don't understand why there are still so many people still stay there and exposing their self of getting screwed once we get some volatility again...



i heard a rumor this morning that 90% longs have opened on BFX in the last 12 hours.. that true ??

https://bfxdata.com/swaphistory/totals

no
400  Economy / Speculation / Re: $300 in the end of August on: August 27, 2015, 11:55:32 AM
I am sure that at the end of August the price will not be 300 us dollar. I am sure even about another thing: No one can find the price of bitcoin in every moment he want to try or to predict. The price cannot be founded. If yes there must be to many billionaires today because of this gift of nature.

So nobody can be sure, but you are sure it won't be $300?
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