It's not inputs... you can spend whatever you like.

It's outputs... the Electrum server is refusing the transaction because it is attempting to generate a dust output. As Abdussamad mentioned recently, this is commonly caused because Electrum defaults to mBTC units instead of BTC units.

The result being that a user enters "0.005" to send as a test or whatever... thinking they're putting 0.005 BTC... but because it's actually mBTC, they're attempting to send: 0.00000500 BTC Electrum server then rejects because of "dust output"


@Kale77... goto: "Tools -> Preferences -> General"... then set the "Base unit" to BTC (and "zeros after decimal point" to 8 ). And then try sending your transaction again

Well, if you'd bothered to read it, then you would know that it didn't have anything to do with change addresses, paper burning or water damage or other "blah blah blah".

It was a very real "bug" that was discovered in a relatively popular Paper Wallet Generator that seemed to result in the same keys being generated for "different" users etc. I believe that there have also been issues in the past with vulnerabilities in libraries used by paper (and desktop) wallet software that has caused "weak" keys etc. There was even an issue with a particular browser that resulted in BIP38 Paper Wallets that couldn't be decrypted by other browsers.


Like I said earlier, every system has it's particular pros and cons... as long as you are aware of these, you can take the necessary steps to mitigate them. Simply claiming that "A > B" is a bit close minded and ignorant of the fact that "everybody is not you".

There are people in this world for whom blockchain.com is the "perfect" wallet... and there are others who wouldn't even type blockchain.com into a browser. So, if paper wallets fit your use case, well that's awesome.

Well... it appears that they now have a domain (with a placeholder website)... https://www.pistonvault.com/

And the video is now back up as "v6.0": https://vimeo.com/337814182
Vimeo user account: https://vimeo.com/user98720655

I still don't quite understand why you would want someone else having physical possession of "your" hardware wallet? Maybe once they get the website up and running properly it might fill in some of the blanks...

There aren't too many pitfalls really... and the Ledger Nano S is a decent enough piece of kit.

Aside from all the normal advice of making sure the device is reset and generating a new seed mnemonic/PIN/Passphrase etc... I would also advise that BEFORE you send any crypto to the device, make sure you're comfortable with wiping it and restoring from the 24 word seed mnemonic.

Basically, install Ledger Live, connect the device and follow the instructions for setting it up. Then note down the receiving address(es) given. Then wipe the device (there is an option in the settings or you can simply enter an incorrect PIN 3 times)... the restore from the 24 word seed mnemonic and confirm that you see the same receiving address(es) following the restore.

This will give you piece of mind that:
1. You have correctly written down the WHOLE seed mnemonic (from memory, the initial setup only confirms a couple of the words at random).
2. The restore functionality works as advertised without risking any coins.

When I got mine, I actually created a couple of different seeds and checked against things like Ian Coleman's BIP39 mnemonic converter to make sure that it was creating "proper" mnemonics, before I wiped and then created the "final" one.


Also, try installing, deleting and reinstalling the coin apps on the device to get comfortable with how the "Manager" functionality in Ledger Live works and see that even if you remove an app and then reinstall, you still get the same addresses etc.

Finally, just an FYI, by default, Ledger will give Nested Segwit addresses for BTC. You can also create "Legacy" if you want and apparently the native Segwit support is in final stages of release... for now, I believe native segwit is still marked as "experimental".

That stuff seems to happen in bip32.py.

Check the derivation path related functions at the end of the file: https://github.com/spesmilo/electrum/blob/master/electrum/bip32.py#L276-L343


EDIT: Actually, it's probably more clear in the base_wizard.py: https://github.com/spesmilo/electrum/blob/fb76fcc886b7c999387a6676f479678df742fdaa/electrum/base_wizard.py#L397-L399

You can see if sets up the derivation points there based on user choice of type... this then uses the bip44_derivation() function in keystore.py to set the path: https://github.com/spesmilo/electrum/blob/fb76fcc886b7c999387a6676f479678df742fdaa/electrum/keystore.py#L791-L793

Yes, it does mean he cannot go online. If he wants true "offline storage", then the computer needs to remain offline permanently. Otherwise, it should be considered no more secure than a "normal" desktop wallet and then associated security measures will need to be taken to ensure the security and safety of their funds.

Additionally, using your "everyday" computer in conjunction with cryptocurrency can be problematic if your "everyday" computer activity includes "risky" activities (downloading pirated software, visiting porn sites etc). The chances of infecting your PC with malware/viruses is a lot higher in these instances.

You don't seem to understand how this works.

Users are free to post what they like, within the forum rules. So, if you believe the user has violated one of the forum rules, you can use the "Report to moderator" link on the post, explain which rule you believe they have broken and why... If the moderators agree, the post will be removed. If not, it'll stay and there is nothing you can do about it.

Note, if the user is constantly saying "scam" without any evidence to back that up, I would report that as "trolling".

If you are unsatisfied with the work of the moderators, then as pointed out by QuickSeller, you should create a self-moderated thread so you can delete posts as you deem appropriate. Bearing in mind that this could open you up to claims of censorship and preventing open debate regarding your project, should you just simply delete any post that is vaguely critical of your project.

Just wanted to say that it's either offline 100% of the time... or it isn't an "offline" cold storage PC.

If it remains offline 100% of the time, it won't matter too much if there is any malware on the PC, as it isn't connected to anything so the malware can't leak any info. However, if your friend plans to "occasionally" connect it to the internet, then you would be well advised to do everything you could to ensure that it was "clean". In this case, as the others have already stated, wipe/format the drive and do a fresh OS install as a minimum.

Check out the project here: https://github.com/FarCanary/ElectrumSeedTester

Using that it generates the Address: bc1qp0efh7jms7f580e7nnywjg5vzm90njm0rdvqpe from the mnemonic "abandon about razor"

BIP32 Root Key: zprvAWgYBBk7JR8Gjbwr8fxvpq5zF33z4wyGYduJVPhcab4iUm8CfePDbKcf2u1pTmgsUwNGGMQdPTN XGkjj9iNqTsRoSQde254shHJJtXe8Weh
BIP32 Derivation Path used: m/0'/0
BIP32 extended private key: zprvAc8htgxrZRryygy2zcbcRFb9C7ybGYhmfJ4PX34YXpfSoorUJugPgUNmdBuNmDgUodvCXMcu3iy 8AMdTCmLZx42hTjvpLcQ74mLdegJzBzC

So you expect that a thief knows what a cryptocurrency hardwallet is, but doesn't know what a paper wallet is? Or that it's easier to "hide" a paper wallet than a "usb stick"?


"Countless"? Stop being so dramatic. Sure, there have been some issues identified by several different parties of several hardware wallet devices. To my knowledge, all of the identified issues have either been patched and/or are able to be mitigated. And it's not like there have never been any issues with "paper wallets". I'm sure we're all aware of issues like this: https://blockonomi.com/security-vulnerabilities-walletgenerator/


You don't need a 37 character password to make it "secure" per se... the 37 character BIP39 passphrase is suggested to make it as secure as having an "unknown" 12/24 word seed. Which, as we know, is generally measured in terms of "millions of millions of years" for brute-forcing. I can't find any firm numbers on the the time/effort required to bruteforce say an 8 or 16 character BIP39 passphrase. The PDF referenced by Ledger claims a 50% reduction in CPU intensive calculations, so does anyone have any references to calcs on how long a 16 char BIP39 passphrase would take to bruteforce?

In any case, saying that a private key written/printed on paper is more secure that a hardware wallet, assuming someone has physical access to both is somewhat disingenuous.


I guess the key takeaway is that NOTHING is 100% secure. As long as you know the risks inherent in the system you are using and take steps to mitigate such risks, then hardware wallets are no better or worse overall than paper wallets.

The very literal definition of a "shit" post:

Looks shady AF... A newbie account asking about a product/service that has zero web presence? All the vimeo videos have gone, and the only crypto related google results for "Piston Vault wallet" is either this thread(!) or the missing vimeo videos.

In any case, based on the replies here... and the OPs description... a "hosted" hardware wallet seems to be no different to a web wallet where the service provider stores funds in a hardware wallet

If this is actually a "product" that someone is attempting to bring to market, I don't think they've thought it all the way through.

Instead of the "[chars]" token, I would think you would want to use:



Then run btcrecover using the --max-tokens 2 and --min-tokens 2 arguments. This will force it to use all the combinations as listed. This should create combinations that start with 1 UPPER case letter... then have 3-7 UPPER or lower case letters... then 2-4 digits... and it should only produce passwords which are 8-10 characters long.

Bitcoins don't exist on your computer. They exist on the blockchain. You can lookup the address on a blockexplorer and see the transaction history/balance:

https://www.blockchain.com/explorer
https://live.blockcypher.com/
https://btc.com/
https://blockchair.com/

It's a bit like a traditional bank... if someone sends you money, you don't need to have your internet banking connected and open to receive the funds. So, regardless of whether or not your computer or wallet is online, if bitcoins are sent to a valid bitcoin address, that will be recorded in the blockchain. You just won't be able to see it in your wallet until it is connected and synced (or you can check using a blockexplorer).

A wallet is really just a method for storing the private keys that allow you to spend bitcoins.

As for why your Electrum is not connecting, did you download it from electrum.org (check browser download history) and did you verify the digital signature of the downloaded file?
Also, there is a good chance that the VPN is causing you issues. Numerous users have had issues with various VPN providers and Electrum. You might want to try without the VPN or checking with the provider if there are known issues with Electrum and their service.

You say the URLs are confirmed, but are the addresses confirmed? Have you contacted the site admins and checked that you sent to the correct addresses? At this point, they're the only ones that can determine that the addresses you sent to were correct.

You have the blockchain evidence to prove that the funds were sent and received.

#1. 3LdTcRKcNo85z8gPWfeVHZ3Z3qgqAYfP2y received 0.03975395 BTC
#2. 3GYkr4HfqqGJQTcT3y29EBDgJHpz6bEXV3 received 0.01101503 BTC

If the funds are not showing in your account on these sites, then either:
1. You sent to the wrong address (possible clipboard jacking)
2. The sites are actually a scam and are lying to you
3. The sites aren't a scam and are just broken/incompetent

That's the problem with these fake versions... they aren't your typical malware in that they don't do anything out of the ordinary as far as internet enabled apps go. Most of the malware/antivirus software relies on using heuristics to identify apps that do "dodgy" things, such as trying to access system directories/files or setting up rootkits or installing unwanted browser extensions etc.

However, these fake versions of Electrum simply send information (your seed) or auto create a transaction that sends all your coins to a specified address on startup. Neither of these things is able to be distinguished from "normal" internet activity for a "normal" internet-enabled application.

At most, they can identify the file hashes of the installers and blacklist those, but any minor modification to the installer will change the hash and render that method of identification useless.

Relying on antimalware or antivirus to identify "fake" versions of apps is not a great strategy. It requires that the devs of those apps 1. Know about the issue and 2. Have updated their app to look for it.

Meanwhile, you have a fairly robust system in verifying digital signatures that will guarantee that the file you downloaded is the official Electrum downloader. Learn how it works and do it EVERY time you download an Electrum update.

You must be new around here...

The vast majority of accounts on this forum are created for joining the shitcoin campaigns. 10 days for a newbie to rank up is just not close to reality given the current stats. There are plenty of accounts that haven't managed 1 merit in a year... let alone 1/day!

At this point, you're probably spending more on internet, data and electricity that the micro earnings you are getting from such endeavours.

Most of the "browser mining" services that you seem to be referring to are really just a front for generating ad revenue and/or use your CPU resources to mine on behalf of the site owners who then pay you a tiny fraction of what your CPU resources are actually generating (which isn't really very much anyway). Essentially, you are being paid a fraction of a fraction of the actual mining revenue.

As you seem to have already realised, most of these faucets and mining services also have minimum payout thresholds that make it simply impossible for you to even withdraw. So most users will give up before they even get to that point... and you can guarantee that the "lost" coins are not in limbo. Remember, all of these services operate effectively custodial wallets, you simply have an account balance (which is just a number in a database). The owners hold and control the actual coins.

You should be running Bitcoin Core v0.18.0 and you should be using Armory 0.96.5 that is available from the link in goatpig's signature: https://btcarmory.com/

DO NOT use the Armory from https://www.bitcoinarmory.com/

What version did you update to? and where did you download it from?

If it was a version 4... you have definitely downloaded a fake version of Electrum and your coins have most likely been stolen.
If you downloaded from anywhere other than https://www.electrum.org/#download (check your browser history), then you have most likely downloaded a fake version of Electrum and your coins have most likely been stolen.