Good answer but I usually finish by asking how "Bet on the latest events against other FreeBitco.in users and win a share of the prize pool if you pick the winner!" can be confused with being offered a fix odds bet at the current outcome odds.

You are wrong. We are not blocking any IP addresses. I've had a few people report getting blocked by Cloudflare and the message they receive tells them that they are blocked due to a security issue and suggests it could be caused by a key word or phrase, SQL command or malformed data. I'm pretty sure that makes it obvious we are not blocking based on location.
The number of these reports is extremely small compared to the number of active users we have and I have also seen exactly the same Cloudflare issue reported on completely unrelated sites (nothing to do with Bitcoin).

We haven't been able to reproduce the issue but my best guess is that it's caused by something installed on the device that is triggering the security systems at Cloudflare.

As for all comments about the new Terms I'll just keep reposting this:


I've said everything that needs saying in that thread already and I'm not going to reply to individually everyone who contradicts me.

The difference is that we do everything manually rather than paying tens of thousands of dollars a month for an odds feed that would be needed to do it automatically. Generally, I pay out all pending bets first thing in the morning but we say 48 hours to cover me when something happens which means I can't get online to do it. Very occasionally I just forget about things. Eng V Aus I couldn't do the next day and then forgot to go back to it.

Yes, the error message tells you exactly what has happened. It means too many requests from the same IP and it clears itself after a few minutes. It's either caused by a shared IP or malware on the device.

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just getting back into the swing of things after the summer holidays. We messed up a few bets by forgetting to put the draw option in. If any of those games ends as a draw the bet is void and will be refunded.

It isn't about the number of free rolls in a day. It's about cheating the site by not doing it yourself. The whole point of giving a free play every hour is to get your attention for a couple of seconds so we can market our gambling services. That doesn't happen if you use automation or someone else to do it for you.

We removed the option to lock the tokens at the same time as you buy them but you can still do it using the savings button. Lots of people seem to get confused and think that locking is the same as the holding period and expect to get the benefits due to them after 360 days immediately after locking. When you buy and lock at the same you don't see the savings page where it tells you "The holding period is unaffected by locking your tokens." so I thought that might be part of what causes the confusion.

That would cause a problem because you are obviously trying to abuse free plays by taking more than you are capable of doing yourself. It was one of the many ways people tried to make out that they had found a loophole in our rules with.

That has been clarified now in our new Terms.


Someone else can't use your account without them having access to your account details.

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This question is usually asked as a prelude to multi-accounting abuse. "my colleague" taking extra rolls for me soon turns into a family of 36 living in the same house sharing one laptop taking turns on each other's accounts so they never miss a single free play.

As I pointed out in the dedicated thread about it. Nothing actually changed about the site when we updated the ToS.

Please read the thread before commenting. I have stated several times already that it is untrue.

I abbreviated it again. The actual full name on the company documents is "FB COINS LIMITED SOCIEDAD DE RESPONSABILIDAD LIMITADA".
The company name is mentioned 43 times in the ToS hence the abbreviation.  

I wish I was living in a world where people actually read my answers before commenting.

But this being the real world I'll just explain it to you again. A site can do whatever it wants within the law. What's written in ToS does not provide any shield. The inclusion or exclusion of anything in the ToS has no bearing on the laws a site operates under. I really don't know how times I need to point this out before it sinks in with some people. A site without any KYC in their ToS could do exactly the same thing.

Unethical /= unlawful^*

Choose which sites you use based on how ethically you think they behave rather than what is written in a ToS.


Only time will tell how many of you will admit that I was correct.


* Just a little point on this. freebitco.in does have very good lawyers who are experts in this field, but as I've already stated I'm not a lawyer. I have been doing this for a number of years and have had to do quite a bit of research to answer some questions rather than pay the lawyers hourly fee. I don't know CR law but as a Brit I can cite English and Welsh law on gambling.
Bets are defined as being a "gentleman's agreement" and are not legally enforceable.
I agree with you that not paying out fair bets is unethical but however I will point out that it isn't illegal. I would never use a site that has a reputation for not paying out winnings. We certainly have no interest in ruining our reputation. Just because some disreputable sites use a specific clause for bad means doesn't make that clause inherently bad.

If you really think that any site that adds a KYC clause to its ToS is going to become disreputable and use it to avoid paying out I can't wait to see your face when you read the ToS of the site you are promoting in your signature.
PS. I've been a customer there since long before it was added and it didn't change my opinion of them when it was.

No. It's a combination of abbreviation and language translation.

The word "offer" is the key here. Being accessible isn't enough legally to determine that you offered a service in a country^*. I don't know the full details of why each of those countries on the list is included but it's probably a more general issue between CR and those countries than specifically gaming.


* A good example of that can be found in the text of EU GDPR

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CELEX:32016R0679&from=EN#d1e1455-1-1

See 23

Whereas the mere accessibility of the controller's, processor's or an intermediary's website in the Union, of an email address or of other contact details, or the use of a language generally used in the third country where the controller is established, is insufficient to ascertain such intention, factors such as the use of a language or a currency generally used in one or more Member States with the possibility of ordering goods and services in that other language, or the mentioning of customers or users who are in the Union, may make it apparent that the controller envisages offering goods or services to data subjects in the Union.

Rather than repeating it all, I'll point to the dedicated thread that I hope I've already answered your questions in.

FreeBitco.in is no longer a KYC free casino! (New terms)

tl;dr Nothing really changed.

The company is:

Name: FB Coins Limited
Registration number: 3-102-854043
Date of Registration: 13 June 2022
Address: Land and Business Attorneys, Building Plaza Murano, Eighth Floor, Office number 82, San Jose, Costa Roca

I don't know if the Curacao company is related to us but if it is then it's one of the other businesses wetsuit owns and nothing to do with the freebitco.in

To be pedantic here your statements are incorrect.

1 "Freebitco is no longer a no-KYC casino".

 By the definition you are using we never were. By the real definition of being required to provide ID to use the service we are not.

2 "and the KYC verification requirement is the part of the license regulation"

There is no gaming license so there are no regulatory requirements. What I have been describing are simply our obligations not to do anything illegal.
 

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I'm not going to comment on what other sites have written in their ToS but our ToS states:


I don't read that as we can demand ID information from you.

But that wasn't really the point I'm making. I think you're all reading too much importance on what is or isn't written in the ToS. What any site can do (or can be forced to do) is defined by the laws they operate under completely regardless of what the ToS says. A site can't just write a line in their ToS that justifies them to "just lock an account or freeze funds on a whim" if that is effectively theft and illegal. It would be struck down as an unfair contract.

If you think anything about freebitco.in changed when we updated the ToS you are wrong.

No. It's a problem with a 3rd party product we use that occurs occasionally. The lottery has happened and the winners have been paid, just the page updating hasn't happened. I've informed wetsuit and he'll fix the display issue as soon as he can.

If you're in a desperate hurry to see which accounts won you can check the Tweet we sent out before the draw. https://twitter.com/freebitco/status/1680601815790895108
Download the ticket file https://lottery-lists.freebitco.in.s3.amazonaws.com/lottery_round_424.zip (I give the link because Twitter have broken their link shortener)
Follow the provably fair instruction to calculate the winners.

It is that simple. You said it yourself.

"has been harassing a particular gambler using KYC as a shield" That's a reputational issue of bad business practice. Any site that doesn't state it the Terms could also use it as a shield.

I was pointing out the legal obligations anyone providing a service is under. Omitting putting that in the Terms doesn't remove it.

It's sad that bad businesses unfairly not paying out makes you guys think that anyone honestly stating their obligations in their Terms will do the same.

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No. You come on. That's complete and utter nonsense that I've already told you is untrue.

We've always been a law-abiding site. We just clarified a few things in the ToS.


If you think otherwise you are wrong.

I think this is a result of a common misunderstanding here on the forum of what a KYC site is. A KYC site requires you to verify your identity either at signup or when you want to deposit, gamble or trade.

All sites are subject to the laws of wherever they are based. They would have to comply with any court order requiring them to identify a customer (eg. suspected money laundering, handling stolen funds etc.). That's the case for all sites without any mention of it in their ToS. Is it professional to omit it?

In summary, using the definition that we are now a KYC site means that a non-KYC site is willing to violate the laws they are subject to.

I'm going to dip out of the thread now as people will just continue to say things I have already denied/contradicted.

ie.



and

You don't need to program it. You need to understand how to use the provably fair system so that you could find out that you were not cheated.


No. I respect my customer's privacy. 3 of them actually came along to this thread and disclosed themselves but that was their choice alone. You don't have any right to demand our customers identify themselves to you just because you are too thick to understand how to find out that it was fair. (The Lambo draws are also provably fair and other customers even did all the calculations and posted the winning ID here before we even published it on a few occasions.)