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4461  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: October 21, 2014, 02:21:54 PM
https://twitter.com/cypherdoc2/status/524566140895649792
4462  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: October 21, 2014, 02:14:04 PM
so what would really be cool here is for the $DJT to go back up and make a new high while the $DJI fails to do the same in a counter trend bounce.  that would trigger a Dow Theory non-confirmation which in my work is seen at a majority of major tops in the stock mkt going back over a hundred years.  we did have a mini-one at the recent top but it wasn't large enough in my opinion.  stay tuned:



all the while Bitcoin is kicking ass.
4463  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: October 21, 2014, 02:12:49 PM
so what would really be cool here is for the $DJT to go back up and make a new high while the $DJI fails to do the same in a counter trend bounce.  that would trigger a Dow Theory non-confirmation which in my work is seen at a majority of major tops in the stock mkt going back over a hundred years.  we did have a mini-one at the recent top but it wasn't large enough in my opinion.  stay tuned:

4464  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: October 21, 2014, 02:09:19 PM
shhhhh.  be quiet...
4465  Economy / Speculation / Re: 3dMACD is GREEN! on: October 21, 2014, 01:55:12 PM
Yes
4466  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: October 20, 2014, 11:35:35 PM
back to the Bitshares thing.  i now realize that it has its own blockchain and is just a variation of the same POS scheme.  sorry, i don't study these alts.

the fact that Daniel Larimer keeps changing the protocol is concerning, not to mention his public nature and those required of the delegate nodes.  the merger with Ethereum indicates to me that both are struggling to come up with a viable solution perhaps never to be found.

At my first reading of it, I thought it might be an SEC honeypot.  That the SEC wanted to get in on the great deal the FBI got by seizing crypto.  After more time looking at it, it seems more to be true believers, but I still haven't figured out how it can survive being crushed by cascading failures from economic attacks.  George Soros would have a field day with it, if there ever gets to be any real money involved.

More like regulatory attacks. Don't forget that rumor that came out on reddit about the SEC/FINCEN coming out with a surprise announcement soon. There's no way, imo, they are going to let share issuance go unchallenged, especially when they have public figures to attack.

There is no fiat involved... unless you can pay taxes with btsx its not liable to SEC/FINCEN rules currently.. if they change it.. it would invalidate bitcoin aswell. Share issuance only needs to be registered legally at the gateway level between bitUSD etc and USD. Those are external entities outside of bitshares.

Merger with ethereum? They simply past ideas off of each other.. and now bitshares to be turing complete and ethereum to possible go to a more DPOS solution. I think its good for everyone.. but a merger im not sure about that.

The public image (posting his real name) is great for the crypto community and it would be bad if fiat was involved so legal system can go after him to try to shut it down but the way it was designed.. it was designed in every way to comply with legal system if it ever came down to that... even to a point where the company responsible for the wallet development & downloads is based in Hong Kong on purpose and replacing the word "Dividend" and "Interest" to "Burn Rate"... these little things mean they have and are thinking ahead.. and it is in the decisions they make where we place our money as investors because it precludes any technology that they come up with, which is already proving to compete with all of the competitors if not the best solution out there for what it does.

BTW if you take a look at the code, it is not an alt coin per definition.. the code is totally rewritten. It uses OP codes similar to counter party to determine bid/asks/shorts/votes and im nto sure about asset issueing.. but I only looked at the code for 5 mins.. im sure since you are pretty interested you can read up a bit more.

it doesn't matter if no fiat is involved, even tho i fail to see how it can't be involved as i think you said one can buy btsx with USD.  but even if so, these are shares we're talking about and the SEC won't let that go unregulated.  it's very similar to how the IRS has ruled that income even tho paid in BTC needs to be taxed as ordinary income in USD.  i know this for a fact as i had to pay taxes the last couple of years for my newsletter biz as ordinary income even tho it was paid in BTC.  same as miners too.  even if it is located in HK, the long arm of the US gvt via the SEC will reach there.
4467  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: October 20, 2014, 11:06:39 PM
... also note Charles Hoskinson has been involved with both BitShares and Ethereum at different stages.
He's got quite the track record.

Yeah, his past public appearances have always been suspicious to my eyes ands ears.  Now we don't even see him anymore.

Most people are going to lose money investing in cryptocurrencies.
4468  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: October 20, 2014, 08:44:57 PM
back to the Bitshares thing.  i now realize that it has its own blockchain and is just a variation of the same POS scheme.  sorry, i don't study these alts.

the fact that Daniel Larimer keeps changing the protocol is concerning, not to mention his public nature and those required of the delegate nodes.  the merger with Ethereum indicates to me that both are struggling to come up with a viable solution perhaps never to be found.

At my first reading of it, I thought it might be an SEC honeypot.  That the SEC wanted to get in on the great deal the FBI got by seizing crypto.  After more time looking at it, it seems more to be true believers, but I still haven't figured out how it can survive being crushed by cascading failures from economic attacks.  George Soros would have a field day with it, if there ever gets to be any real money involved.

More like regulatory attacks. Don't forget that rumor that came out on reddit about the SEC/FINCEN coming out with a surprise announcement soon. There's no way, imo, they are going to let share issuance go unchallenged, especially when they have public figures to attack.
4469  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: October 20, 2014, 08:06:13 PM
back to the Bitshares thing.  i now realize that it has its own blockchain and is just a variation of the same POS scheme.  sorry, i don't study these alts.

the fact that Daniel Larimer keeps changing the protocol is concerning, not to mention his public nature and those required of the delegate nodes.  the merger with Ethereum indicates to me that both are struggling to come up with a viable solution perhaps never to be found.
4470  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: October 20, 2014, 07:39:03 PM
Btw, we have a Dow Theory bearish primary trend change in the books as both violated their Aug 7 lows.  any bounce from here is to be considered counter trend until proven otherwise.  the only question is whether we also got a Dow Theory non-confirmation:

4471  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: October 20, 2014, 05:54:20 PM
The notion that they are competing against each other is silly
Not silly to anyone who understand the concept of opportunity cost.
Both are true.  they compliment and compete.
Gold just has a massively larger market at the moment.

The folks who sold bitcoin at gold ounce parity (which coincidentally was its exact ATH, lasting only minutes) and have time-cost averaged back toward bitcoin balance since then, have done pretty well.

yes, it's fascinating to me that Bitcoin touched that price for only a few minutes before pulling back to where we are now.  at the very least, from a charting perspective, one would expect a retest or double top as one might call it.  except this time, i think we touch it, reject for a short time, and then blow through the top.

we'll see.
4472  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: October 20, 2014, 03:50:15 PM
as i said, gold continues to climb.  that's ok; it's meant to suck the bulls back in before the next take down.  here's what i see:

gold is breaking up thru resistance, the lower red line, and may start sliding down the volume profile mountain to the upside.  the next area of resistance is the middle red line at which time i will start considering reintroducing shorts.  the top red line represents where gold has to get over the top of to start a new mini-bull for the intermediate term.  doubt it gets that high as i think the long term top is in at 1923 from 2011.

4473  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: October 20, 2014, 01:05:25 AM
http://tpbit.blogspot.nl/2014/08/thoughts-on-delegated-proof-of-stake.html
4474  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: October 19, 2014, 11:34:05 PM
All this overlay stuff is way too premature. Bitcoin has to get an order of magnitude larger before it can support any of it.  

Either your statements are contradictory, or you don't believe Bitcoin can get an order of magnitude larger in a matter of months.

how are they contradictory? 

eventually, i think Bitcoin will get there but it will take time.  all the alts and Bitcoin 2.0 stuff is a distraction until it does, imo.
4475  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: October 19, 2014, 10:33:33 PM
All this overlay stuff is way too premature. Bitcoin has to get an order of magnitude larger before it can support any of it.  
4476  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: October 19, 2014, 06:22:10 PM
the other thing about Bitshares is that you have to assume btsx will gain and keep any value at all.  why would it?

1.  it isn't money
2.  it has no network effect
3.  do ppl really want to trade all these overlay assets on top of the blockchain?  it could become quite costly depending on how high a price BTC attains and how high a tx fee might go.
4.  if Bitcoin's destiny is to become a world reserve currency that supports and disciplines (maximum 10x leverage) the existing fiat system, there would never be a need for Bitshares.
4477  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: October 19, 2014, 05:59:38 PM
Bitsharesx is an eco system... that allows you to create assets, some are backed by a peg and some are not.. freely traded. The ones backed by a peg (costing about 300k btsx right now)
what do you mean by this?  is this a 1x fee or something?
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are meant to be tracked via a feed fed in through the delegates, which gets itself around security issues of POS (Delegate-POS is the algo name). Which Larimer/Buterin seem to agree is the best one moving forward away from POW.

still amazing to me Buterin raised all that BTC yet doesn't even have this fundamental strategy resolved yet
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Anyways one of these assets backed by pegs is the bitUSD which is meant to track USD so a price feed is fed in(how many USD each BTSX is worth on an average of exchange price feeds) so to keep bitUSD trading at roughly $1, and thus people can trade btsx for bitUSD and vice versa knowing that they are essentially going to and from USD because you will be able to trade bitUSD back to USD at some time (for legal reasons this was left out until third parties come along and offer this service which are regulated as money transmitters).
you hope they come along
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Another one is bitBTC which tracks BTC... so you can go to and from BTC to BTSX.. same way as going from USD to BTSX and back.. however BTC <--> BTSX. The idea is that many businesses can use bitUSD to offer services to customers and be able to transfer these bitUSD across the chain quickly and efficiently without having to pay fees , and use the built-in bitshares privacy features for annonymous transactions etc etc you get the picture...

There are 101 oracles (and more lining up as backups incase of some going down) doing this feeding and yet it is a more decentralized model than bitcoin (in the way of large concentrated mining pools).
i'll disagree with this.  just b/c there might be larger #'s of delegates doesn't mean they're more decentralized.  many could be owned by same individual.  i don't believe voting necessarily solves this either b/c it sounds like that could be gamed.
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These oracles or delegates get paid to sign blocks as a job. Because of this there is incentive to provide this service.. as it is profitable to do so at these prices.
of course there is incentive.  no work needs to be done.  just get the votes from either your buddies or already vested interests in the POS system then get paid to simply sign blocks.  sounds like centralization to me even worse than Bitcoin mining. btw, i think there's a chance we've seen the last time a miner gets to 50% of the network hashrate as we're getting commoditization of hardware with 10x lower prices to the small miner.  this is good and could reverse the swing of the pendulum back towards increasing decentralization as a result.  the other evidence this is happening is the hashrate is leveling off and we could be stuck at 14nm ASICS for a few years.  that's a good thing.
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.  

this is an insider club from the outset In order to become a delegate you must set up a delegate as yourself and get voted to become an official bitshares delegate.. people have to beleive in you and there is an in-chain voting mechanism used to figure out who are qualified to become delegates based on popularity of votes (there are obvious safe-gaurds to avoid people from getting them selves voted in easier).

so how can this be successful in the long run? there is a tremendous incentive to own several delegate nodes. insider club=ponzi scheme.
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It is meant to work in conjuction of a currency as bitUSD is doing.. and bitBTC... it is not meant to work as a currency itself as the chain is used for mor ethan just a tx ledger for payments (breaking satoshi's golden rule)... however if thought about in another way that it works in partership with bit coin.. in that bitcoin may be used as a currency and bitshares may be used to issue assets/stocks/companies that operate within clearly defined rules without corruption then it makes sense on where to draw lines between bitcoin and bitshares... and IMO it is aptly named in that regard.. bitshares for share issuance and bitcoin for coin transactions and spending.

can u explain how the btcx interface with the BTC blockchain?  is it using the 40 byte op_return and for what purpose?
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You might ask why would I transfer my BTC to bitBTC? Well the incentive is that you get paid interest by holding, through a decentralized solution. If you hold atleast a few months then it is in the range of 10-15% per year right now.. better than any bank.
since eventually the original BTC needs to be paid back along with BTC interest, how does the system continue long term as BTC doesn't inflate?
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It is the only true form of interest payment for bitcoins because you hold your keys.. while all other solutions cause you to send BTC to someone else thus the keys controlling your coins change... in this method you hold your bitBTC keys the same way you hold your BTC keys and essentially earn interest over time... the interest is accumulated fees that people who "short" bitUSD and other assets pay.. you can go long and short bitUSD and other assets just like any other market... market makers and arb bots do this to make money off the spreads and liquidity.. and the holders of the assets win by collecting fees.
holding bitBTC privkeys is not the same as holding BTC privkeys. be careful.
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Other fees that are paid are used to burn coins to reduce the total overall supply so anyone holding anything in btsx will become more valuable over time.

at the very best then it sounds like someone would just want to hold btsx as its supply will be decreasing.  the whole thing sounds dicey to me.  none of these overlays will take off until Bitcoin itself is solidified and accepted as a bonafide currency/money.
4478  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: October 19, 2014, 04:55:05 PM
For those who want a decentralized, trustless, gold backed digital currency

What..

...You will always be able to exchange one bitgld for one ounce of real gold.


Similar to how this was supposed to always be redeemable for real gold?



...that is, until the guys in charge of the gold vault said they weren't gonna do that anymore.




Who is in charge of bitshares?


Doesn't matter. The point is that there necessarily has to be some centralized management of the physical to virtual connection somewhere, be it the guy at the gold vault, or an Oracle (or set of Oracles) providing a price feed.

This is not really a problem with Bitshares so much as "backing" is simply a stupid idea to begin with.

I perhaps shouldn't say "stupid"; it was a somewhat reasonable stopgap for a century or so, but now we can do credible digital scarcity natively, so the backing hack (and monetary use of PMs) is no longer necessary at all.

Why the hell are we trying to replicate the folly of backing in the very blockchain idea that fundamentally makes backing unnecessary?


yep, he's got it upside down.

the concept is a total anathema to what this whole thread has been arguing in the first place.
4479  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: October 19, 2014, 12:48:21 PM
I just love this slow grind  higher.

Sneaking out the door...

You done jinxed it Wink

Told ya. They key off me.

Cheap coins.

edit:  this one took less than 1 min. Grin

Wee!  there you go Pruden!

4480  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: October 19, 2014, 12:26:20 PM
I just love this slow grind  higher.

Sneaking out the door...

You done jinxed it Wink

Told ya. They key off me.

Cheap coins.

edit:  this one took less than 1 min. Grin
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