- http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=102735.0

Ironically for the past three months BitFloor was lower than Mt. Gox because their ACH withdrawal was as good as (or better than) withdrawing to Dwolla -- assuming you didn't need access to the funds for a day or two.  So there were more sellers than buyers.

I think the difference now is that they've added Wells Fargo in addition to Chase, for cash deposit methods which makes BitFloor available even that much more.

I gotta wonder at what point the banks start to question what all these cash deposits are all about.

That's about the point they realize they are being disintermediated.   They are becoming the dumb pipes of the financial network.  They provide a service cheaply -- they convert paper currency into electronic form.  

Because the cash deposited to BitFloor stays there until it goes out as an ACH, they probably have a fair amount of cash accumulating in their accounts.  So Wells Fargo and Chase probably don't mind being used for this.  And it gives them a chance to have potential new customers walk in through the door (though the bank reps probably can't figure out why nearly all attempts to get the prospect to open an account are met with the response "Pfffffft.  Pshaw right!").

All that buzz about the BitInstant Paycard, and they are overlooking that a method to do nearly the same thing is already available:


 - http://www.theverge.com/2012/8/22/3260059/mastercard-denies-bitcoin-debit-card-rumors?login=1345738312#112332758

Until there is ink on paper, there is no Paycard.  


To be fair, BitInstant wasn't the first to think about offering this. Mt. Gox described this over a year ago:


 - http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=22018.msg277763#msg277763

The difference with BitInstant's Paycard as it is being described is that the load fee is so inexpensive and fast.  That isn't something normally that occurs in real-time.  But perhaps there are innovations allowing this to occur.  If Dwolla can build a system to essentially make a same-day wire transfer that is as cheap as ACH (FiSync), then there's probably some bank that figured out how to transfer money from BitInstant's account to and individual cardholder's account in under two hours.

It is hard to comprehend how in 2012 man can send a rocket ship to another planet, deliver a rover from a space crane supported by parachutes in a low density atmosphere, but we still can't get electronic bank ledger entries to occur in real time.   Truly bizarre.

ECurrencyZone has apparently been offering exchange to and from bitcoins since they became Bitcoin-compatible in April.

This service is also useful for using bitcoins to send remittance payments to India, Bangladesh, Malaysia and Singapore. Bitcoins may be purchased with cash deposit at banks in these countries and in Nepal as well.

Their list of exchange methods brings some very interesting opportunities.

Here are some Bitcoin firsts:

• EGOPay - This is a cash-only payment system (like Liberty Reserve, non-reversible) owned by Payza (formerly AlertPay).  ECurrencyZone will cash out to EGOPay, and is the first exchange to do so.
  
• Cash deposit in India, Bangladesh, Nepal, Malaysia, Singapore - There is one other cash deposit method in India (Mr. Bitcoins) but that is only for a single bank (HDFC) whereas the list of banks ECurrencyZone has accounts at for deposit are many.
• Citibank global funds transfer - No other exchange accepts transfers from or cashes out to Citibank global funds transfers.
• Cash out as domestic bank transfer in India and Singapore.  Cash out where cash is deposited to the recipient's account in both of those two countries as well as in Bangladesh and Malaysia.

Also, they take Liberty Reserve as funding for Virtual Credit Cards (VCC) [Edit: for a specific, limited use].   (Not sure why they don't take Bitcoin, maybe they just didn't update that page.)  A VCC can be used for online purchases.  It may also only be used for verifying a U.S. PayPal account or Payza account. (Yes, it is that easy.  Which also helps to answer why PayPal sees so much fraud.)

They also take Mt. Gox redeemable codes (USD) for any remittance transfer and for most other conversions.

 - http://www.ecurrencyzone.net/buy.php
 - http://www.ecurrencyzone.net/sell.php
 - http://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/ECurrencyZone

[Just a caveat, they are an unknown so far here on this forum, and my cursory check online didn't find much on them either good or bad so any feedback with first-hand experience with them is welcome.]

The media sure took that ball and ran with it.

If nothing else, think of all the people that also just learned that there is a BitInstant, and that you can buy bitcoin with cash because of them.

Here's my take on why the bitcoin-denominated debit card concept is significant:

1.) This allows for a very cheap international remittance network.   It gives the ability to transfer purchasing power from people in developed countries (who hold bitcoins) to their relatives back home (who use the cards for purchases or withdrawals at ATMs, in whatever currency).

With a card that can be loaded using bitcoins, you can add funds to anyone else's Paycard.


2.) This becomes an easy to use point-of-sale terminal for a merchant.

A merchant processing company, BitPay.com, offers a very similar service already, but they work with your bank account (e.g., ACH transfer).    

This lets the merchant spend the funds wherever Mastercard is accepted and for use when withdrawing cash from an ATM.

Faster access to the cash is important to many merchants.  [Use as a point-of-sale terminal assumes that there is some notification to the merchant, such as an SMS text message, each time a payment is received.]


3.) This makes it easier to get by without having a bank account.

I can store my wealth in bitcoins, but spend in dollars when that method is more convenient or less expensive.

Sure, long term it would be nice to not even do any payment card transactions and to pay for everything using bitcoins but we are a long way from that.

This is like a bridge that helps get from here to there.


Even though there have been other methods to load/reload a debit card using bitcoins that have been offered already, the details on this one were sweet.  $10 to get the card and a 1.5% cash out fee.  That's a much better deal than any existing alternative (e.g., OKPay, ArumXChange's reloadable card, self-managed method where you register any reloadable prepaid card and buy MoneyPak at $5 per load and a conversion fee.)

Here are a couple threads discussing the Paycard:
 - http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=102613.0
 - http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=101838.0
 - http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=102494.0

Related thread:

Bitcoin -> MasterCard (or any credit card)... who cares?
 - http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=102613.0

Unfortunately some are confusing this as being a "credit card" and not a "debit card"

1.49% or something like that was the target.  The details were still being negotiated I believe I had read.


Yup.   The nice thing is that on these the Bitcoin logo is right there on the front.  You'ld think after learning that bitcoin has lower (or nearly no) fees, and the customer probably asking the merchant if they accept Bitcoin -- that it only has to happen a certain number of times before the merchant looks into accepting Bitcoin directly.

Whooah!!!!

One mind-blowing innovation recognition of our freedom at a time, please.

Yup, that's one of three main reasons.  With a card that can be loaded using bitcoins, you can add funds to my card.   Or, as competition for remittances, a person can send bitcoins to load funds to the Paycard that he sent to his family.

A second reason this is important.  This becomes an easy to use point-of-sale terminal for a merchant.  BitPay.com offers a very similar service already, but they work with your bank account (e.g., ACH transfer).    This lets the merchant spend the funds wherever Mastercard is accepted and by withdrawing at an ATM.  Faster access to the cash is important to many merchants.  [Use as a point-of-sale terminal assumes that there is some notification to the merchant, such as an SMS text message, each time a payment is received.]

The third reason this is important.  It makes it easier to get by without a bank account.   I can store my wealth in bitcoins, but spend in dollars when that is more convenient or less expensive.

Sure, long term it would be nice to not even do any payment card transactions, and pay for everything using bitcoins but we are a long way from that.  This is like a bridge that helps get from here to there.

They left the best part out till the end.

"I'm selling honey.  I accept payment in bitcoins.  Your price is one bitcoin which I entered on mobile app.  Here's the QR code for payment.   [Customer scans and pays.  A few seconds pass].  Thank you for your business."

Then they could explain how that is different from paying when you swipe a credit card or pay using Dwolla even, for instance.

[Edit: I just caught the last hour of it.  Is a podcast of the show made available so I an listen to the previous parts that I missed?]

Doh!  Not a good sign, for sure.

I asked on their main thread (German), no response yet:

 - http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=78284.msg1124749#msg1124749

Ist etwas los? Die Website gibt einen 403 Forbidden

- https://www.Bitcoin-24.com

[Übersetzt aus dem Englischen mit Google Translate]

Yup, plenty of alternatives to move cash from B of A into Bitcoin without using a wire transfer.

 - http://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Buying_bitcoins

Oh, that's too bad.  That was looking like it could become very useful.

External Risks:

- SatoshiDICE growth and/or other uses for bitcoin frequently causes blocks to become full (500KB limit)
This can be from Bitcoin reaching tremendous uptake as a payment system, or a competing blockchain-based wagering service takes off as well.
(Though SatoshiDICE could overcome this by moving away from doing blockchain-based wagering to having a site and a wallet.  Changes its essence doing that though.)

- SatoshiDICE wants to hire staff, gets stuck at line 1 on form as unable to come up with an EIN  

I'm wondering if this would be something that might be brought up to prevent action against an issuer:
 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_facto_corporation_and_corporation_by_estoppel

This exact scenario is one that I've been thinking about -- wondering how it would play out:
 - http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=80139.msg888787#msg888787

What time zone do you have your system set to?

Will I be able to do a direct deposit of USDs to the card?  (Update: If not, since BitInstant already takes Dwolla I could use that to buy bitcoins and load them instead.)

I gotta think, who needs a bank account after this?  Store your wealth in bitcoins, spend in dollars using this card until bitcoins can be used for making payment at the point of sale. and until bitcoins are accepted by more of ecommerce merchants.

While prepaid debit cards loaded with bitcoins has been something we've been able to do for a while, this is the least expensive method (1.5% of funds loaded) versus the others.  And at the same time it is a very convenient method.

The Bitcoin ecosystem is making progress at disintermediating banks.  This will benefit today's "unbanked" and it will be an enabler for those who are voluntarily considering going without a bank account.

This reminds me of Peter Schiff (Euro Pacific International Bank)'s gold-denominated Mastercard debit card.  It works the same way, you can convert some of your gold holdings into USDs or EURs and minutes later user those funds for spending with a swipe of the card.
 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDi7FLcH7iY#t=330s

The difference though is that Schiff couldn't offer that to U.S. customers as the account is held offshore.   With BitInstant's paycard, that's not where I'm storing my bitcoins except what I have there for spending that I plan to make.  If I have an unexpected need for spending, I can load the BTC account for the card with more bitcoins at no charge and in minutes.  Bitcoin is becoming a better offshore bank than anything offered anywhere else.