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3941  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: The political structure of Bitcoin on: September 27, 2012, 09:08:43 PM
Bitcoinrepresentative democracy
minervoter
pool operatorrepresentative
hashing powernumber of votes
software developerspolicy writers
Bitcoin foundationlarge body of policy writers, receiving donations from industries and listening to the opinion of industries


That does not include the absolutely most important entity -- the entity which gives a bitcoin any value whatsoever.  

Which entity is this?   The party that is willing to give up something of value in exchange for a bitcoin.

Only through consensus from the economic majority do any of the others matter.

In other words, the miners, pool operators, majority of hashing strength, software developers and the Bitcoin Foundation can do whatever they want.  But if "their" blocks are rejected by the economic majority, they have no power.   Period.

So the economic majority comes from those who have bids on the exchanges.  And also the merchants willing to trade goods and services for bitcoins.  And the over-the-counter traders and investors willing to exchange their cash for coins.  etc.

3942  Local / Mercado y Economía / Re: BTC -> Neteller on: September 27, 2012, 08:52:14 PM
Hola amigos. soy nuevo por aqui. Me presento soy de Venezuela y estoy nuevo en esto de los BTC. Tengo un par de BTC y quisiera llevarlos a saldo Neteller. Cual es la mejor via? Gracias.



If you can't find a trade here, you might want to look at VirWoX.  I believe  through them Bitcoins can be traded and the funds withdrawn through NETeller.

 - http://www.VirWoX.com

--------------------------
Google Translate:

Si usted no puede encontrar un comercio aquí, puede que desee ver en VirWoX. Creo que a través de ellos Bitcoins pueden ser objeto de comercio, y los fondos retirados a través de NETeller.

 - http://www.VirWoX.com
3943  Economy / Marketplace / Re: So you want to be part of the Bitcoin Marketplace, do you? on: September 27, 2012, 03:33:54 PM
Familiarize yourself with the scary, evil, mean, yet awesome gpg.

Just as you wouldn't recommend someone begin using Bitcoin without first explaining the need for backing up the private keys, the same goes for GPG.

You want to export the private key and to create a revocaction certificate as well.  Then store both securely, such as on a thumb drive.

 - http://www.gnupg.org/gph/en/manual.html#AEN513

or

 - http://wiki.openskills.org/OpenSkills/OpenPGP+Key+Backup
3944  Other / Off-topic / Re: Sorry, y'all: Game Over. I'm about to buy all the bitcoin. on: September 27, 2012, 02:57:38 PM
Where will this whack-a-mole scammer pop up next?

Well that didn't take long.

 - btkoin.com

But it was already offline, presumably taken down but if so that happened before I caught a glimpse of it.
3945  Bitcoin / Press / Re: NEW articles in Press Forum on: September 27, 2012, 01:10:47 PM
2012-09-27 Forbes.com - Bitcoin Foundation Launches To Drive Bitcoin's Advanceme

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=113423.0
3946  Bitcoin / Press / Re: 2012-09-27 Forbes.com - Bitcoin Foundation Launches To Drive Bitcoin's Advanceme on: September 27, 2012, 01:10:03 PM
Gavin's post announcing the foundation:

[ANN] Bitcoin Foundation

 - http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=113400.0
3947  Bitcoin / Press / 2012-09-27 Forbes.com - Bitcoin Foundation Launches To Drive Bitcoin's Advanceme on: September 27, 2012, 01:07:13 PM
Bitcoin Foundation Launches To Drive Bitcoin's Advancement
by Jon Matonis


Quote
The Bitcoin Foundation launches this week to accelerate the global growth of bitcoin through standardization, protection, and promotion of the open source protocol.  As a nonprofit corporation and neutral forum for collaboration, the Bitcoin Foundation follows the successful model of open source bodies like the Linux Foundation and the Tor Project.

[...]
In addition to individual membership, the Bitcoin Foundation provides a way for corporate enterprises from all industries to participate in the expansion of the bitcoin network and platform.

[...]
The Bitcoin Foundation mission leads to the early specific goals of financially sponsoring the efforts of the core development team, funding core infrastructure such as a test network and a DNS seed node, publishing a set of best practices for bitcoin integration, coordinating responses to business and media inquiries, and organizing an annual bitcoin conference with the first one being held in Silicon Valley.

[...]
Initial board members include Gavin Andresen (@GavinAndresen), Mark Karpeles (@MagicalTux), Jon Matonis (@JonMatonis), Patrick Murck (@VirtuallyLaw), Charlie Shrem (@CharlieShrem), and Peter Vessenes (@Vessenes).


 - http://www.forbes.com/sites/jonmatonis/2012/09/27/bitcoin-foundation-launches-to-drive-bitcoins-advancement/
3948  Bitcoin / Project Development / Re: Real money to Bitcoin payment processor on: September 27, 2012, 10:10:50 AM
The main problem is possible chargebacks, because if some advertiser will buy ads on some tangible amount and make chargeback, I will be unable to cover my liabilities to the publishers.

Well, there's this new digital currency they can use called Bitcoin.  No chargebacks.  Maybe you've heard of it?    Cheesy

So you likely will have to make a tradeoff.  The more convenient methods (credit card, PayPal) have chargeback risk  The more secure methods (Bitcoin, UKash, Liberty Reserve) aren't that convenient for your customers.

But there are cash payment methods that might be a good middle ground.  UKash vouchers and CashU cards are sold in much of the world.  Thus if you have a CashU account, you can receive funds from other CashU users who have funded their accounts using cash (Ukash, CashU card, etc.) just like PayPal's person-to-person payments works.

You can then use those CashU funds to purchase bitcoins if you want (or withdraw to your bank.)

 - http://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/UKash
 - http://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Payment_methods
 - https://bitcoinnordic.com/cashu/index.php

Also LiqPay is another method and they do accept credit card.   LiqPay then apparently can be used with OKPay, and then used for purchase of bitcoins.
3949  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Noob introduction and pingit question on: September 27, 2012, 09:30:22 AM
Can anyone put my mind at rest as im worrying this might be a scam,

Barclays is one of the largest banks in the UK.    Blockchain.info is by far the largest online wallet (other than any exchange).   You needn't jump to conclusions like that.


Quote
How long will it take to receive my bitcoins?
We aim to process all payments within 1-10 minutes however this is not guaranteed.

If their automation is running and you didn't get the funds, perhaps there was a problem (like, perhaps, pasting the wrong reference number, or missing a digit)?

The instructions show how the account number and reference are provided.   Did you by chance get an e-mail or anything that from Pingit providing to you the details?

 - https://blockchain.info/wallet/deposit-pingit
3950  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: miners: how are you going to react to the reward halving? on: September 27, 2012, 08:53:45 AM
If the exchange rate is still $12.32/BTC on halving day I'll drop to $0.43/day.

Presuming you are like most other GPU miners and pay a normal electric rate (e.g., $0.15 per kWh) then your electricity for the rig will likely exceed $0.43/day.

But let's say it is break even.  You'ld rather pay $12 to your electric company for a month of mining which yields 1 BTC versus sending $12 to an exchange and getting your 1.0 BTC that way?

And if your electric bill comes in higher than the $0.43 per day, then you are paying above market rate to buy -- and you are going through the effort of managing a rig for free.

If it is a hobby, then call it a hobby.   But anyone mining GPUs for the purpose of profit should know right now ... in about 60 days the party is over. [Edit: Of course, there are other uses for your GPUs, but mining BTC for-profit is specifically what I'm addressing.]
3951  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: When will GPU mining become unprofitable? (electricity $>BTC generated) on: September 27, 2012, 08:02:57 AM
It's hard to know without knowing your electricity rate. On top of that, we don't really know how quickly ASICs will come online. If I had to guess, though, I'd say mid-January.

Unless the exchange rate rises from here, block 209,999 is likely the last block that anyone mining with a GPU and paying normal rates for electricity (e.g., $0.15 per kWh) can mine profitably

That's about 60 days from now.

We just don't know the future exchange rate though.
3952  Other / Off-topic / Re: Can bitcoin help? If im away on vacation and want to pay my gardner after a... on: September 27, 2012, 07:44:55 AM
Can bitcoin help? If im away on vacation and want to pay my gardner after a validated job well done by the neighbor, but how do i keep the neighbor from teaming up with the gardner and them getting away with moneh?

So you either trust your neighbor and send the funds to your neighbor before you leave, or you trust your gardner and you leave an envelope with a bitcoin banknote whever you would leave an envelope with cash.  If you trust neither, then you ask the gardner to skip you that week.
3953  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Mac Bitcoin-qt 7.0 crashing on: September 27, 2012, 07:40:43 AM
I am running osx 10.8.2 if that matters

Well, it helps to exclude this:

If you are running 10.5, you should not upgrade yet.

Like psy suggested, if the wallet.dat is the only db left and you still get the error, then the wallet.dat is probably in a bad state. 

So to know for sure, move it aside (e.g., rename it to wallet.dat.tmp or something) and let the client re-download the blockchain and create the empty wallet. 

But that doesn't solve your problem if the wallet.dat is in a bad state.  Did you have a recent backup of it?
3954  Economy / Service Announcements / Re: BitMe now accepting new payment methods (Direct Deposit, wires, cash deposits) on: September 27, 2012, 05:11:07 AM
transparent with a security and disclosure policy.


I've submitting these questions to various exchanges.  It is BitMe's turn.  I'm specifically looking for the answer to:

 - BitMe's security page describes "The great majority [of bitcions] are held offline". 

 - Is there a target as to how much of customer's funds are kept in cold storage?  (e.g., percent of total, or perhaps relative to recent withdrawal requirements)?

 - Do new deposits go to cold storage?  (if the hot wallet is compromised, new deposits made (e.g., automated payouts by mining pools) would still be secure)

 - Does the offline wallet where the cold storage resides remain protected due to an "air gap" (no access to it electronically, not connected to the network)?


Other questions that I'ld like to know the answers to:

 - Does BitMe maintain full reserve?  (i.e., BitMe controls bank accounts with all customer USD funds and controls wallets with 100% of BTC funds.  None of these amounts loaned out.)

 - Does BitMe maintain offsite backups of its accounts and transactions?  If for some reason the exchange's primary account database were lost due to a security breach, what information (and how recent) is still available from backup or archives?

 - If there is a security breach and BitMe cannot meet withdrawal requests of its customers, what is the withdrawal preference that BitMe would follow?  Various preferences are:

 - -  A.) All deposited funds are of equal standing with bitcoins being valued at their market rate at the time of the loss,
 - -  B.) Withdrawals of USD funds, if not impacted by the breach, are made available to those customers who held a USD balance. in full.
 - -  Do customer deposits have preference over any other creditor claims?  (i.e., a contract stating so such that they don't become unsecured creditors ending up in the same pool as the landlord for office space and hosting bill.)
 - -  or is there some other approach?

 - If there is a DDoS or server availability issue, where should users turn to to learn status (e.g., blog, forum thread, Twitter, etc.)?

 - Does BitMe have (or plan to provide) an out-of-band communications method (e.g., e-mail to inform customers of any security issues?

 - Does BitMe plan to offer two-factor authentication?  If so, will it be "done right" (as requested here: http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=109424.0 where each withdrawal request requires a OTP).
3955  Economy / Service Announcements / Re: [ANN] - BitMe now open for trading on: September 27, 2012, 04:57:44 AM
As a bookend for this thread, there are two subsequent threads regarding this exchange:


 BitMe now accepting new payment methods (Direct Deposit, wires, cash deposits)

 - http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=104634.0


BitMe.com Double Thumbs Up!!!

 - http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=111861.0
3956  Bitcoin / Project Development / Re: Real money to Bitcoin payment processor on: September 27, 2012, 02:38:56 AM
I am looking for a payment processor who will accept real money payments (credit cards, PayPal, WebMoney) and fund my account in Bitcoins.


Is this for online/e-commerce or retail point-of-sale?  Also what country is the merchant in and where are the customers from?

I just edited that post as I just looked again and see that they don't process credit card payments.

One of the challenges to a merchant processor considering offering what you are asking is that they no longer have that link to the banking system.  So currently, if the are lots of chargebacks (either fraudulent or legitimate) they always can follow the money.  With Bitcoin, the buck stops right there (or, at least the trail does.)  So they'ld likely want to keep a reserve, or maybe require some type of bond to protect against fraud.

If the reason you are looking for this (direct to bitoins) method is to shorten the amount of time between the funds can be spent by you, there is one solution to consider, described here:

Using the banking system, the fastest approach would be to use something that can sweep your funds once they reach your bank into a Bitcoin exchange as quick as possible.  

Dwolla's FiSync would do this For example, a transfer from a Veridian credit union to Dwolla is nearly instant (hours), then to a Bitcoin exchange is just a short while as well.

So for that, you simply have your merchant processor send the proceeds to your bank account at Veridian (most merchant processors in the U.S. do this with an ACH push), and then from the moment those funds are credited in your bank account at Veridian it could be just a matter of minutes (e.g., within an hour) before those funds would sitting at your exchange in the form of bitcoins waiting for withdrawal.


If instead you are looking for a way to protect against the scenario where a person pays in USDs, but by the time you receive the USD funds the BTC exchange rate has moved against you, that is addressed here:

If all you want to do is protect against the exchange rate fluctuations, you could have a USD account at an exchange, and then make a trade that matches each card transaction [to lock in the USD funds at the current market rate], but that takes having a full days revenues sitting at the exchange each day to be able to accommodate this approach.   (i.e., cash management becomes a pain).


If you want this merchant processor to do the conversion to bitcoins so that you don't use a bank account at all, that's probably going to be a long way off yet.  We already know that VISA and Mastercard are aware of Bitcoin and their intentions are fairly clear.   Remember the "original credit transaction" offerent through AurumXChange back in May?   That lasted about 48 hours before the credit card companies put the kibosh on that.
 - http://www.forbes.com/sites/jonmatonis/2012/05/07/bitcoin-funded-debit-cards/



If that does come, it will likely be with an offshore merchant account provider that somehow figures out the right combination to allow it.  
3957  Bitcoin / Project Development / Re: Real money to Bitcoin payment processor on: September 27, 2012, 02:02:34 AM
I am looking for a payment processor who will accept real money payments (credit cards, PayPal, WebMoney) and fund my account in Bitcoins.


Is this for online/e-commerce or retail point-of-sale?  Also what country is the merchant in and where are the customers from?


For online/e-commerce, you might consider OKPay.  [Edit: Oops, they no longer accept credit card.]

 - https://www.okpay.com/en/services/accept-payments/index.html


Funds from OK Pay can be deposited with Mt. Gox, BTC-e, Bitcoins Direct and numerous others.


If you accept Amazon Payments, those funds can be sent to another Amazon Payments user who would trade for bitcoins, for instance.


Also, be careful using the term "real money".   Bitcoin is a lot more "real" than that fiat stuff that Ben and company create out of thin air.
3958  Bitcoin / Press / Re: 2012-09-26/BBC World Service (Audio)/Digital Currencies (~10:00 min) on: September 27, 2012, 12:49:18 AM


The MP3 can be downloaded here:

 - http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/worldservice/bizdaily/bizdaily_20120926-0920a.mp3
3959  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: How are addresses guaranteed to be unique? on: September 27, 2012, 12:41:32 AM
I am aware that the chance of 2 addresses being identical are remote,


Here's another thread where that question was asked:


Given your example of 1 billion users at 10 addresses each:

There are 2^160 or about 1,460,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 possible addresses
In your scenario, 1,000,000,000 people are using 10 addresses each for a total of 10,000,000,000 possible addresses
10,000,000,000 / 2^160 should yield the probability of a collision occurring
10,000,000,000 / 2^160 = 0.00000000000000000000000000000000000000684

So the chances of a collision occurring in your scenario are approximately 0.000000000000000000000000000000000000684%

See why we don't consider collisions an issue?
3960  Economy / Speculation / Re: In the horizon: difficulty crashes! on: September 27, 2012, 12:21:31 AM
Miners shutting off or liquidating

If they haven't by now, they probably are holding until block 210,000.  There's little risk to just seeing what happens.

Price appreciating[//quote]

That would definitely make mining more profitable.   I'm not convinced though.  It isn't a shock that it will occur -- and a lot of speculative buying has already occurred with the expectation of a rise.  If it doesn't happen, there could be a lot of dumping instead.

Delayed ASIC[/b] No ASIC until 2013.

There's still a month backlog of FPGA shipments even.   Plus, even if the ASICs aren't shipping, doesn't mean they aren't mining! 

Nobody knows for sure, but I would bet that unless the exchange rate rises, mining profitability will be decreasing from here through block 210,00.
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