Everything I said still applies, I don't know where you are @squatter but in countries from Europe which is where I am from, basically you are a criminal by default if you can't clearly prove the origin of the funds.

So no, you can't put any relevant amount worth of cash into a bank account without receipts that prove it was earned legally. You are delusional if you think you could get away with putting 5 figures worth of cash inside a bank account and not have the IRS equivalent here knocking on your door asking where that came from, and "I just made this from playing in the casino" without any receipts and clear trace back to the origin will not cut it.

You can't also put crypto earnings of any kind in an account without having full history of your earnings and being able to trace and report every satoshi movement including the movements inside exchanges.

About dead exchanges, unless you made a daily backup of your trades, chances are you would be unlucky and not have an updated trading history saved because exchanges die randomly.

It is only fair to be cautious and ask for precedents, and see what authorities would demand if you tried to cash out amounts that come from mixed origin, dead exchange origin, or signature campaign origin. The only clear and easy way is the usual one: buying them in an exchange where you are verified and selling them again: capital gains tax and you present the trades which are done in your name. Everything else is a grey area which im not willing to cross without having clear precedents because I don't want to get my bitcoins counterfeited.


In theory yes, but the problem is, if you've been doing this for years and never reported anything... once you do want to cash out to buy a house, what can one expect?

That's what they said last time that Bitcoin went from $1200 to $150 and then started going up again. "It's a dead cat bounce, there will be no all time high". We've had many of these across the years now, look at the charts. The most recent, when it hit $17,000 and went back to $12,000 to then hit $19,900. Now it's time for $20,000+


We can hit $100,000 if US's economy really goes on a major disaster.

We just hit $13,000 on Bitstamp and almost there on Bitfinex, anyone else feels we are recovering and we are going to be at an all time high next month or march as of very late? The bullish trend is still intact, we just had a period of being overbought, we shacked off the doubters and we are back on track. Soon the people that didn't buy the dip will, once again, hate themselves and hate Bitcoin even more.

More cases of frozen funds, this time a $40000 transaction:


https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/7rfwec/warning_do_not_send_any_large_sums_to_coinbase/?utm_content=title&utm_medium=browse&utm_source=reddit&utm_name=Bitcoin


We are not Al Capone, and I suppose we are not trying to launder money because I would rather sleep at night than getting caught trying to launder bitcoins into a bank account. We are talking about keeping it legal once you decide to cash out.


Precisely because of the lack of precedents, it's safe to be paranoid. Have you or do you know anyone that has cashed out a decent amount of BTC earned in bitcointalk? How did it go? until we have this info, we are just speculating.



I asked about mixed coins and dead exchanges too. And like I said, we have no precedents, we don't know what we are dealing with. Maybe you think pointing to this forum is enough and they decide to fuck you up and decide it's not enough evidence, the government is totally clueless about bitcoin and they will take the cautious stance, meaning, at any doubt, they will declare that it's not enough proof.

Again, point me to a real case of people:

1) Selling coins that came from a mixed transaction
2) Selling coins that came from a dead exchange
3) Selling coins that came from signature campaign earnings




It doesn't matter what they "couldn't", what matters is what evidence you present. And if they are legitimately bought, you have the bank transaction into Coinbase with your name and ID and whatever. Now if you made some coins on a signature campaign and put them on Mintpal and trade for LTC or something then back to your wallet.. there are no traits of that, because the exchange is dead, and back then exchanges were completely anonymous, even in Poloniex I entered some fake name and location to trade because no one cared back then, you can look in this forum and everyone used fake names. This has now became a problem if I intend to sell these coins.


Yes, unless you can clearly prove that the gains come from gambling on a casino, you have a problem. Also there would be the bank transactions with your name on it and the destination to this former company, with crypto to crypto there's nothing.





How do you trade the coins back to Mintpal?

It's a mess of transactions, different altcoins, different wallets. I even did a bunch of micro trades worth satoshis. And I don't even have my trades that I did on Mintpal, I was going to save the trading history but when I went to the site the next day it was already dead, same goes for Cryptsy, how the fuck do I even report that.

You are making big claims with no clear proof. I don't know how the IRS is, but in other countries, you aren't going to get away with it. And I doubt you can be selling drugs on the street for cash, then put it all on the bank and buy a house, c'mon don't be delusional.


If you mix the coins, when you receive them back, you receive them from an huge mix of outputs... at this point, you can't prove how you acquired them. You sell them to an exchange.. so what, it can still be traced back into your wallet. Exchanges generate one deposit address, so it could be traced and then reach the point in which you cannot prove how these coins came into your wallet because you receive them through the mixed address originally. This is the problem that now I face with a decent amount of BTCs and I don't know what to do...


The only coins I could clearly prove that I received are from the signature campaigns. 

And the coins that I deposited then withdrew in now dead exchanges are also a problem, since the exchanges are dead...

I don't know what the taxman will request specifically so I hope that if someone goes along with this posts their experience.

If you buy Bitcoin with cash, you can no longer put it into the banking system, because if you do and you get caught, they will ask you where the money comes from, and as far as I know, if you can't prove it (if there is no receipt of any kind that would prove it was a transaction for legal money) then who knows what will happen, from a very high tax to total confiscation of funds, this is why I was worried about selling some of the coins which I mixed one time to test a mixer out when it was a new thing and I was curious... now im stuck with these coins and I can't use them to pay a house.. I regret so much mixing these damn coins but BTC was worth a lot less back then.

Just because they can't prove it, it doesn't mean you are ok to go, otherwise anyone sellind drugs for cash could argue the same and put the money in the bank.

It's ironic that said this right before the biggest bull run in Bitcoin yet up to $20,000 happened. Long term holders always win. The people that held at $1,000 are now up %1000 even after the crash from $20,000 to $8,000, so how can you even begin to argue how long term holders have ever lost?

Similarly, the people that bought at $20,000 will make %100 gains when we hit $40,000 this year.

It's holding well above the $10,000 range now after the dip below it, it's a strong psychological barrier, but the trend line that pointed at around $8,000 seems to be rebounding it back into above $10,000... it must hold for a couple more weeks before we start feeling confident for an all time high in february or march, if not, the $4,100 bottom is a realistic but pessimistic scenario, I hope this was it and now it's only up.

I don't know where you are from, but this is not true. If you are a freelancer, you must sign up in the government and specify what you are doing (for example, if you are making Youtube videos, I think you must sign up as "production of audiovisual content" or something like that) and you must present the receipts that Google pays you through Adsense, and you must also pay some taxes on all of this. I didn't had any idea of all any of this and im learning now. But forget about the concept of "im innocent until proven guilty", you are guilty by default and you must prove that the money you put in your bank account is legit. You may go under the radar for smaller amounts, but any relevant amounts and they will catch you sooner or later and if you don't have everything signed up and ready they will screw you up.

Of course it costs, a lot actually. It was cheap back then, because nobody used it.

Other coins are cheap to use, because fewer people use it, but more importantly, because they are not decentralized, or not as decentralized as Bitcoin.

Big blocks don't solve the problem, Bitcoin Cash is not the answer, there is no answer yet, so Bitcoin is king, there may never be a way to have cheap instant decentralized payments, so hold your Bitcoin, because we may not have even started to go up yet, since few people realize these facts.

This year china is less relevant in exchanges, since they have all been banned, but the big chines billionaires are still trading bitcoin over the counter.

I believe we will rebound after we touch that long term support line and we will hit an all time high in the following months, not worried at all.

This would be the case, but if segwit and the rest of scaling features kick in, we could be buying KFC with BTC.

But in any case, it is impossible to offer proper over the counter service without a second layer solution because it has to be instant. I think in the next years we will see solutions for that.

But even then, you still would need to fill your LN channel with money, Im not sure how that works yet..

Maybe decentralized payments for such small purchases like a chicken is just not possible.

As you pointed out, coins like IOTA can still deliver 4 figure percent returns, but the project must have something interesting behind to back these sort of increments of marketcap at any reasonable volumes and maintained overtime, at least enough to cash out. There are few of these projects, it's hard to spot and know what the new 4 figure % gainer is going to be, and again, if it doesn't have good volume it doesn't count because it's useless. If you make $1,000,000 but the volume is $50,000... it's just a pump and dump group.

Cardano had huge gains recently for instance, didn't invest in any of these unfortunately. Im sure there will be more, but it's so hard to know what will or will not pump. Don't forget the king is still Bitcoin to take your gains into Bitcoin when it starts getting out of hand.

I just saw this on reddit, a recent case of an example of how the banks will froze your account if you sell relevant amounts. This guy sold $100k to buy a house, this is what happened:


https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/7pwj08/sold_off_100k_of_btc_for_a_house_thanks_to/

We all definitely need to get our shit together and know what's going to happen when we sell. If you made 1 BTC from signature campaigns, most likely you will have $100,000 BTC in 5 years or even more, so you will want to buy some real estate and then you better know exactly what to expect when authorities demand the info.

Im looking at this and it's giving me an headache. Will need to get everything compiled and tracked down to every single satoshi I want to sell to prove im not a damn criminal (I hate how im a criminal by default in the eyes of the State).

Also it seems clear that if you ever mixed any amount of coins, these mixed coins can never be cashed out because you cannot prove the origin. So maybe even trading with Monero will make it impossible for you to buy a house with the gains because you cannot prove the trace of your money through a blockchain that is masked.

We are good. Look at the graph and think. We are hitting higher highs and higher lows on the dips.

After the $11,000 crash coming from the current ATH, we hit $16,529, corrected to $12,043, went up again and hit $17,277, with a dip down to $12,822. So notice how we go high, correct higher than the previous correction, with this trend we should be ok, outside of any big FUD news that could disturb the current triangular formation which as I described is rather ascending than purely symmetrical of a triangle. I see an ATH next month (again, outside of FUD news).

It was just a way to pump their stock. A lot of companies lately are claiming that "they are getting into crypto" and then they make a fancy press release about how they will innovate their business with an ICO. I've heard they want a token for photography or something, makes no sense to me.

Looks like they are either doing it on purpose to pump their stock (which is working) and exit at a plus before closing, or they are clueless and think there is a case for all these tokens other than pumping them and dumping them for more bitcoin.

It's the classic example of an interesting technology applied to a cryptocurrency, but the cryptocurrency ruins itself due a very bad distribution of the initial tokens. It's said that 80% of the tokens is in control of a tiny amount of people that mined it, mostly developers, they never made it public outside of the darknet or something along the lines. I would actually know the details on how this coin was launched and why it was replaced by Monero, because Monero is the fork that took over with the original Bytecoin technology.

Bittrex is known from their sluggishness when it comes to dealing with customer's problems.

The number 1 strategy to make them get their shit together is to do what they hate the most: public shamming.

Make a thread on reddit, be sure to clearly state the $20000 figure on the post to get more attention. The community on reddit has helped a lot of people in the past by upvoting these threads. Realize that that is very bad publicity for Bittrex, so let everyone know your case on there and see what happens. Hope this helps, but beside this, there's not much that can be done, it all comes down to Bittrex, since they control the private keys.

Yes obviously I meant real estate.


Chase, Bank of America, CIBC... has frozen a lot of transactions.

Of course you can get irrelevant amounts, but try to get $800,000 in your account to buy a house and then see what happens.

Im not here to talk about what I have, I could be a multimillionaire or have 100 bucks, that's irrelevant. The point here is, when you try to put bitcoin into your account, and this bitcoin is not as easy to prove when and where it was bought (for example, buying it in Coinbase is easy, but money earned in exchange of a service like a sig campaign, a business where you accept BTC and never declared anything, a mining operation...) you will need to explain very clear every satoshi. This is what the thread is about. Now name 3 people that sold more than $500,000 worth of bitcoin, the bitcoin being obtained by offering a service and never having declared anything, or undeclared mining gains, etc, and explain how it went from them. Anyone that thinks it's as easy as selling it and just paying capital gains and that's all is a delusional idiot.

PS: The people that participated in early sig campaigns have made more than 100 BTC posting, that's more than 1 million bucks right now so stop treating it as a joke, so for these that started at the begining in around 2012 or so, they have a fortune doing that, so they better know how how report every single satoshi and the consequences of not having declared it in time when they attempt to buy real estate with it. The banks are not cooperating with bitcoiners, they will try to get as much money from them as possible if the origin of the money is not clear or there are mistakes (which is very easy that that will happen since you are supposed to present every single transaction and trade ever which is insane). This is what the thread is about.

Im still holding this coin. As I predicted back then, this coin would hit 1 USD and it did:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1947097.0

But as we can see here, we have still not hit an ATH against the BTC price:

https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/posw-coin/

My bet: POSW will hit an ATH during 2018 against BTC (that is, 20000+ satoshis).

ETH is going PoS, and a lot more coins will also get added to the system. The TPoS system is working and will change the game when it comes to speculating by staking PoS coins, everyone will be using this to stake several coins at the same time.

Just pick some and hold them long term, if im right, the gains will be great.