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The defensiveness and unskillful psychological manipulation in the posts I'm seeing in this thread suggests to me realistically that this is either a straight-up scam, or there is very little chance this is really going to happen in a realistic timeframe.
The contention that sales don't happen to people familiar with this forum is specious, and the tone of the "official" posts here is arrogant is disrespectful.
What I'm basically seeing sold here is "we don't need you we have real customers who are not scrubs, but please send us money so we can sell to you". This is a classic grift.
After the kinds of performance we've seen from some other ASIC manufacturers over the course of 2013, the burden is not on the posters on this forum to just believe somebody, the onus is on the seller to demonstrate a willingness to demonstrate his credibility. If the very first thing a seller does in the face of skepticism is get defensive like I'm seeing in this post, then frankly it's unreasonable to have the expectation of trust.
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HOLY MOTHER GOD I bought my bitcoin during 200-300 and I have waited patiently for it to make me rich, so I did not sell at any dips, and also did not sell during 1200 or 1100 after the china bad news hit after it drop pass 800, I started to get panic and thinking will it drop pass 400? I sold during 700 thinking it would crash to 400 I been washed out?  REALLY? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOo You're fine, just buy back in really soon, you basically got all the gains from 200-300 to 700, and missed from 700 to now. Then stop looking at it and just do other stuff for a year or two. |
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you must be making a small fortune selling these for 290 euro whats that a 5000% mark up?
BTC0.2 would be a better all round price, at least that way you wont get ppl talking smack about them being a rip off
Realistically plugging these in right this second may not ever mine you 0.2 ever. |
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Again, I'm forced to ask: Regardless of whether or not it would be possible or practical, should we put together an altcoin that is resistant to this volatility? The only things worse than having one one printing press cranking out fiat paper and binary numbers without mercy is 77 printing presses doing so.
The fact that it's impossible makes this question basically irrelevant. How on earth would you even create an altcoin that is "resistant" to USD price volatility? The only altcoin that would resist volatility would be an altcoin that can't change hands! Make supply match demand. Once buyers on an exchange became confident that reward coins for mining would not be issued until demand for the currency caught up (rather than running the printing presses endlessly, as with so many bitcoin clones), there's no more a rush for the door. As important, there are funds out there that would be invested if they felt that there was much less risk to short- medium- or long-term loss. Although holders of such an altcoin would only see a 0-1% increase each month, short term speculators would tend to stay away, in favor of those who put more value in for the long haul. Like any central bank in the real world, what's needed is the certainty that the currency will not be arbitrarily devalued by endless overproduction of paper/coins. I've got some nebulous ideas that you would need a kind of internal prediction market where people bet their existing coins either for inflation or deflation and the block-chain either grows or shrinks the money supply in the opposing direction. The trick is that the bets need to be self-fulfilling while also being denominated only in the coin itself which I don't know how to resolve. If your interested in trying to develop this idea PM me. If the method of growing or shrinking the money supply involves adjusting the balance of all inputs proportionally, then nothing is actually solved because the exact same fiat market cap will just be spread over a different number of units that are proportionally in the same hands. That would in essence be exactly like arbitrarily talking about mBTC. If the mechanism is variable mining block size, the remedy to volatility simply isn't fast enough to counteract the kind of volatility we see in cryptos in practice. Also there would need to be some mechanism that incentivizes actually using the internal prediction market instead of simply trading for fiat outside of the blockchain. I think designing around eliminating price volatility misses the boat with cryptos entirely, because pegging against fiat is not necessarily desirable. The endgame on cryptos is not to be pegged to fiat or anything else, it's the utility of the payment network displacing existing inefficient markets, and the fiat valuation is just a secondary consequence of that phenomenon. |
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Nobody actually knows what's possible or not possible, outside of the range of between $0.00 and the value of all the combined currency in the world.
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Again, I'm forced to ask: Regardless of whether or not it would be possible or practical, should we put together an altcoin that is resistant to this volatility? The only things worse than having one one printing press cranking out fiat paper and binary numbers without mercy is 77 printing presses doing so.
The fact that it's impossible makes this question basically irrelevant. How on earth would you even create an altcoin that is "resistant" to USD price volatility? The only altcoin that would resist volatility would be an altcoin that can't change hands! |
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Let's talk about reality here. The crash can only hurt people in two possible scenarios --
1) You panic sold right at the bottom or close to it and can't rebuy your original BTC holdings, in which case you were whale food.
2) You literally JUST bought Bitcoins for the very first time a few days ago and are pissed at their current dollar value.
The solution to this entire problem is not to scream "ponzi scheme" and embarrass yourself like a complete moron.
The following helpful tips will prevent anyone from having to rush onto the internet to create a thread about complete crybaby bullshit --
- Don't buy Bitcoins with money that you absolutely need anytime soon, because if you do you're a moron
- Don't sell all your Bitcoins in panic just because the price goes down, because if you do you're moron
- If you don't know anything whatsoever about technical trading, just stick your Bitcoins in an offline wallet and come back in a few years, because caring about the dollar price on a day-to-day basis, again, makes you a moron.
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I think it's also important to point out that in debates/commentary like the Schiff clips posted in this thread, the term "intrinsic value" is not being used in its strict financial definition. What Peter Schiff is talking about is "value" being modified by the general adjective "intrinsic".
The actual technical term "intrinsic value" does not actually mean what he's talking about.
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Peter Schiff is just some technical trader, he's not any kind of academic economist or philosopher.
Arguing about "intrinsic value" and the theory of money is way above his pay grade, when it comes to arguing these points he's just "some guy".
His father seemed some what knowledgeable about economic theory: http://home.earthlink.net/~schiffeconomics/Yeah, Peter and his brother based their book off of their dad's story. Having a father that is a legendary income tax activist who wrote a comic book about a rudimentary theory of money is cool and all, but it doesn't suddenly mean that Schiff has any qualifications in this area of inquiry beyond any person on this board. |
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Peter Schiff is just some technical trader, he's not any kind of academic economist or philosopher.
Arguing about "intrinsic value" and the theory of money is way above his pay grade, when it comes to arguing these points he's just "some guy".
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Is it remotely possible that miners are really being assembled and tested here in any reasonable volume?  |
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I just made an equally-valid totally awesome econometric model of BTC valuation using super double secret proprietary methods that I am not at liberty to tell you because otherwise I'd have to kill you!  |
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These kind of self-absorbed, sophormic, and intellectually-meritless conversations belong in a dorm room where dummies who just took an Introduction to Philosophy or Economics can smoke cannabis and make meaningless sounds with their mouths to impress their equally sheltered peers!
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Just to inject some sanity into this discussion and take things back to basics, the notion of producing a simple trendline projecting future prices is 100% grounded in the technicals (and this analysis while interesting is basically the most primitive technical analysis possible). It's important to also consider the fact that technical analysis is not a crystal ball for any kind of long-term predictions, it's a tool for the trader to react to the graph and hopefully execute the correct trade.
The moment it becomes apparent that the Bitcoin price is driven more by fundamentals, this entire mode of analysis goes out the window. There is a very compelling argument right now that the recent price movement is driven by fundamentals because of China's recent en masse entry to the buyers market.
Fitting to a trendline has no relationship to these fundamentals, and if we are to believe that there is something technologically-transformative or revolutionary about Bitcoin, then the fundamentals are the dominant factor in driving long-term pricing. This is not pork bellies, barrels of oil, or frozen concentrated orange juice.
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A centrally-issued currency does not need to be either P2P- or cyptography-based, because you've already assumed the counterparty risk of central control that P2P or crypto cannot solve.
The US dollar already exists in this form when it comes to open market operations at the Fed.
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Let's say that all Bitcoin exchanges unanimously decided today to ask $1 Million for 1 Bitcoin and kept that price
for 10 years, what would happen then?
The same thing that always happens to any price-fixing cabal. A participant will unilaterally lower the price to screw everyone else and control the market, or new enchanges will pop up not adhering to this ridiculous premise. |
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Here's what I think... BitCoin was made by the NSA to crack codes.
All of the private keys that were easy have already been cracked. Now we are cracking harder ones, and thus they are becoming more valuable.
It is a free market solution to help them snoop on tougher and tougher encrypted things.
Of course, I could be wrong, or it could just be the paint thinner talking. But wouldn't that be awesome?
This entire premise is based on such an absurd misunderstanding of mining that I'd never imagined was even possible. |
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At the time of this article all of these concepts were already well known outside of the intelligence community, this is not some relevatory smoking gun. There is no mention of any technological concepts in the article that were not already obvious in 1996 and there is not even a trace of the technological innovation that Bitcoin introduced to this conceptual framework (the blockchain and proof-of-work). |
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The only possible problem I anticipate with Bitcoin achieving its full potential, is that a large number of socially-inept internet morons stand to become obscenely rich and do terrible idiotic things with large sums of money.
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