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661  Economy / Trading Discussion / Re: Bitcoin Loans = Reputation | Thoughts? on: August 01, 2017, 11:31:55 AM
Hello everyone.
I was just wondering, if is it a good idea to give away small amount of loans to trusted forum members to get some reputation?
I mean, what if i open a service which would allow senior or trusted forum members to take loans from me (around 0.02btc each, considering my current budget) if they need. Will that make a good impression on people for me or not? Will i get some trust or reputation by doing this?
Your thoughts? or, suggestions?

1. You simply can't build a reputation on this forum by giving out loans, go through the lending section and you will see that. Maybe a couple of some old lenders have got some ratings, but still not solely because of lending.

2. You can build a reputation by offering some services to the community or by contributing in making this forum a better place.

3. You can build a reputation by indulging in trades (not loans) with other forum members.

4. You necessarily do not need a green trust account to have reputation. Just don't indulge in scammy activities and have fair trades to build up reputation.
662  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Information request about BTC/BCC after hardfork... on: August 01, 2017, 06:25:11 AM
Hello,

1st of all sorry for my English (I'm French,1st message here and thanks to all of you for contributing to it ) but I have some questions I did'nt find any answer regarding the hardfork tommorow :

1) Will BCCs be used for selling and buying products (so also used as a money) or will it just be a "technical issue" for BTC resolved by this split ? In fact will it help having more faster transactions and less fees for BTCs or will the transactions be faster and cheaper only by using BCCs ?? If it's that, why will BCC have any value ??

1) I understood that same amount of BCC compared to existing BTCs will be created so a little bit more than 16 millions : BUT will there be also people continuing like a "parallel mining" to reach 23 BCCs in 2140 like for BTC ?

Thanks for your first answers !



1. Some merchants do accept altcoins and if BCC survives long enough then it might be used for buying or selling products.

2. Segwit does solve the technical/scaling issue. In my opinion, this UAHF or split is just a hurried reckless decision which isn't going to have any impact on bitcoin and might not even be productive for the small number of people behind it.

3. Bitcoin, Segwit, LN, Schnorr signature (anti-spam), and then 2 MB increase in blocksize if necessary is more than enough for cheaper and faster transactions. BCC is another implementation of bitcoin protocol, a separate blockchain with different set of rules.

4. Bitcoin Cash preserves the existing blockchain at the time of split so all 1 BTC:1 BCC. Yeah so 16 million BCC would be created and possibly the cap would be similar to bitcoin, 21 million, mining on a different blockchain.

5. BCC is not Bitcoin, it is an altcoin and like thousands of altcoins it is not going to have any impact on BTC and if it somehow survives it would exist as an altcoin with a very much lower value than bitcoin.
663  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Technical Support / Re: How to generate private keys using 12-word seed and claim BCC later on? on: August 01, 2017, 05:33:03 AM
Can someone kindly explain me step by step procedure for generating private keys using 12-word seed for claiming BCC if I have BTC stored in My Private Wallet in Lykke Wallet?
This is what is announced by Lykke Wallet as their August 1st plan : https://www.lykke.com/company/news/Lykke-Policy-for-Bitcoin-Cash


Step-by-step guide on how to retrieve the private key using the 12 words, https://github.com/LykkeCity/Tools/wiki/How-to-retrieve-private-key-using-the-12-words

If you want to get BCC immediately after the hard fork then you have to import this private key into a wallet that supports BCC.

If you don't want to import your private keys to another wallet then Lykke will also add support to withdrawal BCC some time after the hard fork.

https://www.reddit.com/r/lykke/comments/6py4r9/lykke_policy_for_bitcoin_cash/
664  Economy / Web Wallets / Re: Will I automatically receive bitcoin cash on blockchain.info? on: August 01, 2017, 04:35:26 AM
What is the best wallet to get BCC automatically?

Electrum. They already made an announcement that they will be supporting Bitcoincash. They also have made a fork of the Electrum wallet called Electroncash. Hold your coins there and you can import the private keys later.

Blockchain and Electrum currently doesn't support Bitcoin Cash.

https://blog.blockchain.com/2017/07/30/bitcoin-cash-hard-fork-blockchain-users/

If you want Bitcoin Cash then you have to import your private keys to a BCC supported wallet like Coinomi or BTC.com wallet.

https://coinomi.freshdesk.com/support/solutions/articles/29000013381-btc-bch-fork-how-to-collect-your-free-bch-coins

Quote
BCC wallets will require you to import your seed or your private keys,
which can be exported from Electrum. Doing so will expose all your
Bitcoin funds associated with that seed to the BCC wallet you decide
to use.

https://electrum.org/bcc.txt

Quote
"Electron Cash" is a fork of Electrum for Bitcoin Cash. Electron Cash
is not endorsed by Electrum.

The person who distributes the Electron Cash binaries has decided to remain anonymous, and uses the fake name "Jonald Fyookball" in order to sign Electron Cash binaries. Thus, if these binaries contain code that is designed to steal your bitcoins, the author of the theft will be anonymous and walk away safely with your funds.

This danger is exacerbated by the fact that the default behaviour of
Electron Cash is to silently copy all your Electrum wallets into its
own directory. Thus, if you run Electron Cash on a machine where you previously used Electrum, all your pre-existing wallets will be
available in Electron Cash, and you will only need to enter your
password in order to expose your bitcoins to potential theft.

https://electrum.org/bcc2.txt

Don't risk the privacy of your bitcoins by doing so. Move all your BTC to a new wallet with new private keys and import the old private keys to a BCC supported wallet to get free coins.
665  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Threshold to Segwit on: July 28, 2017, 08:49:19 AM
Folks,

Im wondering why the threshold for Segwit activation is now 90 or 95 percent. I thought because of the activation of BIP 91 the threshold will be lowered to 80 percent?

Thanks in advance for an explanation:)

BIP91 was an alternative, which cut short the BIP141 (Segregated Witness) percentage of 95% to 80% (lock-in and rejection)...It was to prevent BIP148 or a split/wipeout, purpose and the outcome are same.

1. BIP91 locks in (80%)
2. BIP91 activates and rejects blocks not signalling Segwit.
3. Segwit (BIP141) lock-in period starts (95%).
4. Segwit gets activated.

Lock in around August 8, activation around August 23.

https://www.xbt.eu
https://coin.dance/blocks
http://segwit.co
666  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: I am against Bitcoin Cash and here is why on: July 28, 2017, 07:39:32 AM
My opposition is not because they are trying to hard fork
not because they are trying to increase the block size to 8 MB and open up many attack vectors.
not because they are effectively centralizing bitcoin.
not because they have the biggest scammer as their speaker.
not because they have been attacking bitcoin and trying to take over for more than 3 years.
...
these are all minor reasons.

the main reason that i am against bitcoinCash is because they are going against the majority. we voted, the nodes, the miners, the businesses, ... and got the majority on the current chain that you see and is called bitcoin.
but you could not accept and did not respect the majority's opinion and still insist on your minority hard fork.

and the worst part is you are going against "satoshi's vision", the very thing you pretend to support. which is a decentralized system that works based on consensus of the majority not what some small group of people want.

and here is a question for you:
you say your proposal is the best, you claim to be the satoshi's vision, and lots more. so why don't you make something from scratch? call it Satoshi's Vistion Coin or SVC for short.

1. The current Bitcoin protocol is Satoshi's vision and an increase in blocksize isn't against Satoshi's vision, but the question is, is it necessary at this point in time.

2. Decentralization is being dragged into this whole scaling debate. On chain and off chain solutions. Segwit with side implementations (LN) gives a choice to users to choose how they want to process their transactions, no miner manipulation, if using exchanges is centralized, yeah then payment channels can be termed a centralized approach, just perception and it comes down to trust, still channels aren't capable enough to run away with your coins.

3. Don't bother explaininng how miners manipulate fees, incentivized spamming isn't no fluke. Bigger blocks leads to high fees, and then include the spamming. It is definitely costly, but when the spamming is controlled by a definite source or bigger pools (let's drag the centralized mining equipment manufacturer into it, Bitmain) then it is worth the spam to get twice the amount in transaction fees. Centralized mining.

4. I had mentioned in one of my last posts there is majority, super majority, economic majority and consensus, let the miners and the manufacturer be centralized and centered on their own profits, let the nodes decide.

5. Segwit2x is the apt option, gives both users and big blockers a choice, users don't have to process their transactions according to the rules set by centralized miners, and there is on chain transactions who prefer that.

6. BCC is a demo. If the majority supports for a hard fork in November, let be it, if not, the non-majority has the option to fork-off the network. There is no logic in comparing miners have heavily invested into mining, so what the Bitcoin users are doing?
667  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: August 1- Should I keep my BTC at Coinbase? on: July 28, 2017, 05:41:21 AM
I'm using Kraken
How about i move all BTC to fiat currency instead?
And then buy back BTC whenever i feel like it might be going the right direction?

And also, i have a few other coins like ETH, LTC.
Should i convert them all to fiat or only BTC?

What would be your advice

Thank you

A confused contradiction, should I convert my BTC to Fiat or should I convert my alts to BTC, fiat or BTC? Personally I do believe that Bitcoin price will hit $3K once Segwit gets activated, by the last week of August, not an investment advice, just an intuition.

Bitcoin was and is going in the right direction, if temporary hiccups and price fluctuations means wrong direction then you aren't yet ready for Bitcoin. Funds are yours so choice is yours, you can convert BTC to Fiat or alts to Fiat/BTC, and buy back whenever you feel it is going in the right direction.

Thank you for your reply

The reason for me to wanting to move to fiat is that i 'think' that it will swing up and down with all these uncertainties.
So might as well try and sell at a high price and buy in again at a low price.

There are many stories about coinbase and others moving their btc's to offline wallets, but i do think that the split opens up some interesting day trades too.

Since Coinbase does not support BTCC, would Kraken support both? i could not find much about this



Yeah, Kraken supports both.

Quote
On August 1 2017 at 12:20 pm UTC a small community of Bitcoin users is planning a hard fork from Bitcoin to an alternative protocol called “Bitcoin Cash” (BCH). Bitcoin Cash is expected to be a minority chain, with the vast majority of the Bitcoin community remaining on the chain that activates Segregated Witness.

All Kraken clients holding Bitcoin (XBT) balances at the time of the fork will be credited with an equal amount of Bitcoin Cash (BCH)

http://blog.kraken.com/post/163504189522/bitcoin-cash-and-a-critical-alert-for-bitcoin

Converting to Fiat is a far fetched option, just move your funds from exchanges or online wallets to where you have access to private keys. If not paper or hardware wallets then use desktop wallet like Electrum or Android wallet like Mycelium or breadwallet.

If you have access to private keys then you can have these free coins, Bitcoin Cash by importing your private keys to BCC supported wallet, but by doing so you will be exposing all you Bitcoins associated with that key to the BCC wallet you decide to use.
668  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: August 1- Should I keep my BTC at Coinbase? on: July 28, 2017, 03:28:40 AM
I'm using Kraken
How about i move all BTC to fiat currency instead?
And then buy back BTC whenever i feel like it might be going the right direction?

And also, i have a few other coins like ETH, LTC.
Should i convert them all to fiat or only BTC?

What would be your advice

Thank you

A confused contradiction, should I convert my BTC to Fiat or should I convert my alts to BTC, fiat or BTC? Personally I do believe that Bitcoin price will hit $3K once Segwit gets activated, by the last week of August, not an investment advice, just an intuition.

Bitcoin was and is going in the right direction, if temporary hiccups and price fluctuations means wrong direction then you aren't yet ready for Bitcoin. Funds are yours so choice is yours, you can convert BTC to Fiat or alts to Fiat/BTC, and buy back whenever you feel it is going in the right direction.
669  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Speculation (Altcoins) / Re: Will Bitcoin Cash overcome the original Bitcoin? on: July 27, 2017, 04:04:04 PM
Due to the controversies of the BIP 91 proposal, Bitcoin mining provider ViaBTC and other supporters are planning a hark fork on August 1st. It will be called Bitcoin Cash with a block size of 8mb.

Now, it would be up to debate whenever this separate chain becomes successful in the future and it gets the attention from major exchanges, businesses, and startups that support Bitcoin.

Do you think Bitcoin Cash might overcome the original Bitcoin we know and love in the future? Or will SegWit2x prevail and render other forks useless?

I would like to know your opinion about this Smiley

There is a poll in discussion thread about the possible outcomes of Bitcoin Cash, there is a coexist option, bitcoin and BCC would coexist with latter having a lower price than former, right now IMO it is not about coexistence, BCC ≠ BTC, so an altcoin and this is what defines BCC now, a cryptocurrency that is alternative to bitcoin, so many alternatives, not equal, so not bitcoin.

Would BCC overcome bitcoin in future is a tricky question to answer at this point in time. If I am right ETH, Bytecoin, Monero, Zcash have gone through forking and some got the better of originality and some got the better of the forked version.

No comparison between these cryptocurrencies and bitcoin, globally accepted first crypto, 9 years, $42 billion cap. Would a forked version of bitcoin be able to get a better of these stats, there is majority, super majority, economic majority, consensus. Let's see how it plays out.

Right now Segwit activation is what matters and personally I don't agree with hard fork three months after that. No efficient planning, lack of developers, lack of revewing by proficient developers, lack of testing, how much of all these can be achieved in three months. If I am right BU had messed up with their coding. A hard fork is not backwards compatible, messed up, and it is messed up. It was six months and then three months and now UAHF in midst of Segwit activation, what's this rush all about?
670  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: [UPDATED]: The OFFICIAL SegWit2x Lock-in Thread on: July 27, 2017, 12:29:47 PM


New Segwit activation period has begun. Segwit is currently projected to lock in during this period, around August 8.

https://coin.dance/blocks
https://www.xbt.eu

671  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Is there any danger /risk having my bitcoins at Poloniex,Bitrex after 1 August ? on: July 27, 2017, 10:16:57 AM
Is there any danger / risk having my bitcoins at poloniex  after 1. August ? Also will my current Bitcoins remain Bitcoins (and not BCCs or a mix) at poloniex and bittrex after 1. August ? Cant find the answer anywhere ! Cry

Statement by Poloniex

Quote
We will be disabling deposits and withdrawals of Bitcoin (and all BTC related tokens) any time we deem necessary to ensure that all tokens stored on Poloniex remain safe. The length of any possible downtime is unknown as this is highly dependent on network stability.

At this time, we cannot commit to supporting any specific blockchain that may emerge if there is a blockchain split. Even if two viable blockchains emerge, we may or may not support both and will make such a decision only after we are satisfied that we can safely support either blockchain in an enterprise environment.

If you don't want to leave the decision of which Bitcoin tokens to support (or recognize as valid) to a 3rd party, you should not keep your tokens on any 3rd party platform.

https://poloniex.com/press-releases/2017.07.24-Our-plans-to-handle-potential-BTC-network-disruptions/

Statement by Bittrex

Quote
Bittrex will close deposits and withdrawals of Bitcoin (including 2nd layer protocol XCP/OMNI and associated assets) 24 hours prior to the BCC UAHF time on August 1st, 5:20am (12:20pm UTC). The wallet will remain closed until the majority hash power chain is clearly established.

Bittrex will monitor the BCC network and developments and assess the viability of opening trading of BCC assets. There is no guarantee that any markets will open to allow BCC assets to be tradable on Bittrex exchange.

https://support.bittrex.com/hc/en-us/articles/115000808991-Statement-on-Bitcoin-Cash-BCC-?mobile_site=true

Poloniex and Bittrex currently have no plans to add BCC. Obviously all exchanges would temporarily suspend their operations on August 1. Is your bitcoin safe in Poloniex or other exchanges? It is as safe as keeping your bitcoins on a third party website with no access to private keys. You should move your funds to where you have access to private keys.
672  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: August 1- Should I keep my BTC at Coinbase? on: July 27, 2017, 09:16:12 AM
Hey guys,

Hearing so many things about the August 1 fork that i really don't know if i should keep or remove my BTC from Coinbase.

What you guys think? Its safe to keep them there?

Thanks.

1. Coinbase doesn't support UAHF or its associated coin (Bitcoin Cash). If you want to access your coins on the UAHF chain you should withdraw your funds before July 31.

2. Four hours before the UAHF event until the network stabilizes Coinbase would suspend all deposits, withdrawals, buy/sell options. All exchanges would be following this same procedure.

Any transactions on August 1 until there is network stability is not recommended and don't keep your funds on any exchanges. Move it where you have access to private keys.

https://support.coinbase.com/customer/portal/articles/2844217-uahf-uasf-faq
673  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Poll: What do you think will happen with bitcoin in August after the fork on: July 27, 2017, 05:47:02 AM
Some people that are not living under a rock know that bitcoin is going to hard fork come August first. After two weeks, when the dust settles we should have more clarity on the results of this split of the blockchain. I want to poll all BitcoinTalk members to see their perspective on this fork. Do you see gloom and doom or do you see opportunity and exciting times coming.

Please vote so we can have a sample of the community.

Wasn't there enough confusion that you have to rename two coins. It is bitcoin and bitcoin cash.

1. On August 1, the whole bitcoin protocol isn't getting hard forked. ViaBTC would be implementing their own version of this open source protocol (BCC) which isn't going to make any changes to the main network. Only a small percentage of miners would be mining the BCC chain so IMO the question of gloom and doom is insignificant.

2. There is replay and wipeout protection so there would be no double spends and as far as wipeout is concerned, BCC is a permanent fork so it is unlikely.

3. Majority of miners are committed to activate Segwit so obviously BCC would have a very small amount of hashrate to support the chain. Keeping this scenario in mind, ABC developers have added a slow mining difficulty reduction algorithm.

4. Exchanges. I don't think major exchanges would support BCC. Coinbase has already made it clear.

After all the dust settles down, IMO there could be two possible scenarios either BCC will bite the dust or it will exist as an altcoin with much lower value than bitcoin.
674  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Is Bitcoin Mixer a must? on: July 27, 2017, 03:31:36 AM
Almost everyone making online transactions thinks that using bitcoins would be a good way to stay anonymous. But the truth is bitcoin transactions are not really anonymous at all. All transactions are recorded and can be seen publicly through the blockchain. When you use your bitcoin to pay for goods and services online, you will need to provide some private information in some cases. This means that your transactions can be traced by a third party to find information. In order to avoid this from happening, bitcoin mixers provide services where your bitcoins are mixed with others to make it harder to be traced back from the original owner.

Do you think that it is a must for everyone to use a bitcoin mixer? Why and for what purposes?

Bitcoin is pseudonymous. All transactions are permanently stored on blockchain and visible to everyone. It is possible to identify a person through their transaction history and this is where bitcoin mixers are useful, complete anonymity.

Now without any ulterior motive people use mixers to protect their anonymity. But mixers also serve illegal purposes like financial crimes including tax evasion, money laundering, fraud and then darknet crimes. Stolen bitcoins, ransomware, hackers use mixers to get rid of tainted coins.

And even using mixers isn't risk free, you have no idea who are behind centralized mixers, do they keep logs? If being anonymous is the purpose then it can be done even without mixers and if other purposes are involved then I think you need mixers.
675  Economy / Services / Re: ★☆★ Bitvest Plinko Sig. Campaign ★☆★ (JR-Hero Accepted) on: July 26, 2017, 08:41:55 AM
User: krishnapramod
Postion to Apply: Hero
Posts Start: 1268
Address: 3B6LZLmAjEgXdFAadrFZYqDJEmNB1Ui4YM

Thank you.
676  Economy / Services / Re: [OPEN] ChipMixer Signature Campaign | 0.00075 BTC/post on: July 25, 2017, 09:08:37 AM
Username: krishnapramod
Post Count: 1267
BTC Address: 3B6LZLmAjEgXdFAadrFZYqDJEmNB1Ui4YM

I will wear the signature if accepted. Thank you.
677  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Can BItcoin scale by operating like banks do, with cash and check money? on: July 24, 2017, 04:01:18 PM
Many people do not realize, but our typical fractional reserve banks generally don't oprate with cash. The amount of cash that a bank has is a small fraction of the amount of money that a bank has. If you try withdrawing $200,000 in cash, they would probably tell you that you have to wait a little bit, because they have to have more cash delivered from the Federal Reserve branch.

Banks operate on cash backed check or electronic funds. When you get a loan from a bank, they write you a check. The money is created out of nothing on the spot. How much they can create is limited by how much capital or derivitives the back has, which is in turn defined by banking rules. There are inspections or audits to enforce these rules. I think how much money a bank can loan out is around 9 to 1 for regular capital and 40 to 1 for derivitives. This money has value because it is backed by cash that comes from the Federal Reserve, which came from the United States Treasury if I'm not mistaken. You can see how little cash there is by looking at the money supply figures, M0, M1, and M2. Only M0 is actual cash that backs all that virtual bank money.

Cash itself was backed by gold or silver at one time but that's a different but similar story.

When you write a check and deposit it in another bank, the first bank reduces the money in your account, and the other bank increases the amount of money. No cash actually moves. If an imbalance occurs the Federal Reserve takes care of moving the cash to the banks that need more. In fact they have a system set up where they know which banks will need more cash during certain times of the year, such as holidays.

To get to the point:
So my idea is that the exchanges could work like banks. No necessarily the fractional reserve loan aspect of banking, but just the virtual check / electronic money system. BItcoin on a wallet could be like cash. The exchanges would operate like banks do, where sending Bitcoins from one exchange to another wouldn't actually create a transaction. If an imbalance occurs, then the exchanges could do a real Bitcoin transaction to balance their accounts. Or there could be a federal reserve of BItcoin that manages everything, and exchanges would pay a small fee to be a part of the federal reserve Bitcoin exchange network.

I think you are missing the whole decentralization concept here.

1. Exchanges working as banks to carry out bogus bitcoin transactions and then level it out with a real bitcoin transaction in case of an imbalance. I don't get the purpose of it. It would create too much centralization. First of all, it is not at all recommended to store a good amount of bitcoins in exchanges, you never know when one gets hacked or shut down. Secondly, bogus transactions would take away the whole transparency aspect. Then why blockchain is there? Bogus transactions and blockchain technology, don't know how that gonna work.

2. Who would be the federal reserve of bitcoins? One centralized entity distributing bitcoin to exchanges. Would users be stupid enough to part with their bitcoins and hand it over to a single organization. Never.

Bitcoin is decentralized and applying a centralized banking structure/model/concept/ideas to it wouldn't work.
678  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Money 💰💰💰 on: July 24, 2017, 01:51:48 PM
Quote
Life is really simple, but we insist on making it complicated. -
Confucius

Money is one of the major complications that takes away the simplicity of life. Money is necessary to lead a simple life, but when we start giving it more importance (greed) than it deserves it starts interfering with our life in a very negative way.

Once in a while having a sense of detachment with the concept of money is good to lead a meaningful life and finding happiness in small things.

Rather than complicating life with the compulsion to accumulate as much money as possible, enjoy it, be happy, no one gets out of here alive Grin
679  Economy / Economics / Re: Signature campaign as my job? on: July 24, 2017, 12:01:05 PM
Hey, I am 15 year old and wondering if i can have signature campaign as job, imo yes, because i completed 2 signature campaigns (mobilego and zrcoin) and i got 808 mobilegocoins which is worth about 800 euros, and 54 zrcoins which was worth about 50 euro. What do you think?

Sorry if my english is bad, It is not my language. Sometimes I might mean things other than I wrote

Signature campaign earnings aren't a substitute for a full-time reliable and secure job. Yeah, you can earn a passive income through Sig campaigns with learning new things about bitcoin and voicing out your opinion.

It can be put into online earning category and many people are making a substantial income online, but still not with just one skill, forum posting here, but with two or multiple skills. So if you do spend a considerable amount of time online and are fine with a full-time online job then apart from Sig campaigns learn some professional skills also, more income, more options, more security.
680  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Do the miners need the Bitcoin users? on: July 24, 2017, 10:34:49 AM
Both users and miners are interdependent. Relation between both is similar to one between shopkeeper and customers. If you say, miners require users because of bla bla bla, don't forget not everyone could setup and running mining in his house. If there are no miners, all users will left with unmovable BTC tokens in their wallet which eventually loose their value.

Yeah I do agree with both being interdependent. I wouldn't say one is superior to another, both have a role to play in the efficient maintenance of Bitcoin ecosystem. There is a common thread between users and miners, fees. One receives it, one pays it. There is a slight imbalance here, agreeable that miners have heavily invested into mining and it is also true that there is fee manipulation to some extent by some miners who want to break even quickly with transaction fees.

Since both users and miners are equally important, users need to have a say or a choice in the amount of fee they are paying, maybe things would get better after Segwit is activated.

Not saying that fee should be lowered to the extent where it is unprofitable for miners. There should be an average fee that both users and miners are comfortable with. No one wants users leaving the network because of high fees or miners quitting because of low fees.
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