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721  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Impact of drinking alcohol. on: July 16, 2017, 11:43:24 AM
Alcohol might be good or bad. Scientifically it has been said that it has coagulative properties, cardiovascular, same in excess, BP. Forget about any other organs, they are in rear, liver takes alcohol attack head on, that's the only organ which regenerates like hair or nail, toxifying.

Drinking occasionally on social events is okay, but drinking alone is toxic, physically, socially, and psychologically.

Majority of the drunkards/alcoholics, literate or illiterate knows it's affects, but still continue. There is no irony or addiction, only choice.
722  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Brain Wallets on: July 16, 2017, 08:19:02 AM
Hello folks,

I have read a lot about brain wallets. They sure are intriguing in that you would never have to write anything down that could be discovered by someone else. They are also inherently unsafe in that the passphrase can be brute forced, rainbowed, dictionaried, etc. I did a little expedition, and found a number of brain wallets, by trial and error:

1. The Merkle Root hash of the Genesis Block creates a valid address that has been funded in the past
2. The secret message in the Genesis Block "The Times 03/Jan/2009  ....." also creates a valid and funded address
3. Satoshi's name in many variants, mixed case, lower case, including/excluding blanks leads to many brain wallets
4. "Dread Pirate Roberts" leads to a brain wallet
5. "it was the best of times it was the worst of times" leads to a valid brain wallet
6. bitaddress.org has a vanity address 1NiNja1bUmhSoTXozBRBEtR8LeF9TGbZBN - it will lead to a valid brain wallet address   
7. "to be or not to be" has a valid address.

There is a good piece on why not to use brain wallets http://fc16.ifca.ai/preproceedings/36_Vasek.pdf
however, I can think of ways to improve security and still benefit from the convenience.

1. Create a phrase you are able to remember, for example: "Al Gore invented the Internet and that's an inconvenient truth."
2. Send this through an independent SHA256 generator with a SALT phrase of : "We consume too much NACL."
3. Take the resulting hash as an input for generating your brain wallet address.

Challenge me ;-)



And what purpose does it serves? An additional layer of security/safety? A strong password is a strong password, why load the brain with remembering public and private keys. I have a word document dedicated to copy paste all the different passwords in different sites. I have to be a memory man to get through all these without the doc.

If you are using a weak password you would get hacked one way or the other, if you are using a strong password you are immune to hackers, it's as simple as that.

Quote
The only problem you then face is law enforcement or criminals compelling you to give up your passphrase. In this case, you might be able to get away with creating a dummy pass phrase to an address that you already have some bitcoins on. However, due to the block chain, whoever is forcing you to divulge your pass phrase may know you are lying.

http://www.coindesk.com/how-to-create-a-brain-wallet/

Quote
Bitcoins in one's own mind by memorizing a mnemonic recovery seed. If the mnemonic is not recorded anywhere, the Bitcoins can be thought of as being held only in the mind of the owner. If a brainwallet is forgotten or the person dies or is permanently incapacitated, the Bitcoins are lost forever.

Quote
Practically everyone who knows about or cares loudly yells at people DO NOT USE BRAINWALLETS [GENERATED BY HUMANS]. We've seen pretty concrete evidence that users are resistant to good advice in this space, and they are shocked when their favorite quotation is cracked and they lose their coins (But it was 60 characters long! I even added a special character! how is this possible?!), the existing sites promoting this stuff won't use a KDF stronger than SHA256*1 because "users are stupid if they use weak passwords".

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Brainwallet

Why go through all this mind wallet hassle if you have a strong password.
723  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Journey to Hell, With Bitcoins on: July 16, 2017, 05:49:59 AM
I'm not a Fan Guy of Bitcoins.
I had received payments of $3,000 for my work from client and which was hard working money while the BTC/USD price was $2700+,
And as other's were expecting the price would push up to $3K+.

Now its Going down and down and I can only see Red Candles and no support levels in the BTC/USD chart,
Guys I'm really confused what's next. Will the price go down to $1K? I'm on a Massive Loss...Don't know how to recover
 Huh  

You aren't in favor of bitcoin, your client paid you in BTC for your hard work, $3000, guess your client had no other option, but you had, you could have converted it to to your local currency with a minimal fee at that point in time. But you didn't, you favored bitcoin by expecting in short-term holding bitcoin would add a few additional dollars to your income, but it didn't. Welcome to bitcoin. Sorry for being blunt. Just hodl and wait, you wouldn't be disappointed. Keep earning.
724  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin at Exchanges on August 1 on: July 16, 2017, 01:48:00 AM
Technically what could happen to transaction on August 1st?   

Technically what happens during home maintenance, cover the valuables, you step out, let the work be finished. The same thing here, safeguard your valuable bitcoins where you own the private keys, there would be some network instability, avoid transactions at this time, once network stabilizes just carry on.

Just don't store your bitcoins in exchanges. If a split happens, no matter what the contingency plan of exchanges is, it's always risk free when you have total control over your coins.
725  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Poll. UASF or Segwit2x? on: July 15, 2017, 05:43:16 PM
thanks for the link, I did not know that about UASF supports.
also the link you gave about Schnorr signature didn't help me understand how SegWit prevents spam attack but SegWit2x does not. so I need more information than that Roll Eyes

Wikipedia knows about everything, but explanation is mostly restricted to who already knows, it gets much tougher when technicalities are involved. Wiki people should split the pedia into basic conversion of the complex knowledge to basics to complex to complicated for who can understand, would be much more helpful for the basic people like us Grin

Here's a much simpler explanation, https://medium.com/@SDWouters/why-schnorr-signatures-will-help-solve-2-of-bitcoins-biggest-problems-today-9b7718e7861c

It is still a bit tough, go through it a couple of times, it is pure cryptography, no dramatics involved.

The first part of Segwit2x, Segwit is just a formality for the second part, no thoughts on how the first would be useful, but on just somehow implement the second part.
726  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Poll. UASF or Segwit2x? on: July 15, 2017, 04:56:24 PM
could you clarify a couple of things you said here for me:
Looking at the track record of Segwit2x developers, I would not be amazed if something huge gets exploited if it succeeds.
SegWit2x (btc1) and bitcoin (bitcoin) share many contributors. replace the author with the names of those contributed to first one. it also has J. Garzik who has been a bitcoin core developer for many years.

developers aside, the code is the clone of bitcoin core version 13 which had SegWit and it is activating the same SegWit.
are you saying SegWit code is flawed and exploitable or bitcoin core version 13 is . and note that the part about "2x" or the 2 MB hard fork is not for 6 months after the activation of SegWit...

Quote
The UASF solution seem to have more solid developers, but it lacks the miner support.
an who are these more solid developers? I have so far seen no good plan for BIP148 except a rushed crappy plan with an extremely high risk of chain split. and I have seen only one developer support it passionately on reddit. no other person than LukeJr!
other developers are either against it or have not said much.

I remember reading the early days what Gmaxwell said in the mailing list about how he is not supporting it and how it is rushed compered to original SegWit plan.

Quote
If Segwit2x succeeds, we will see everything dominated by miner decisions and if you look at the way that they exploited users with high fees, then the future does not look too bright.  Huh
how come?!!
it is still the same SegWit with only a future plan to do a hard fork to increase the base block size to 2 MB
and what does the "spam attack" have anything to do with SegWit?



https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Segwit_support

Spam attack has nothing to do with Segwit, but everything to do with pushing Segwit2x. There is Schnorr signature to prevent such attacks, https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schnorr_signature, who cares when miners are manipulating the network fee with incentivized spamming (their cost of spamming is lesser than the fees pocketed through a highly congested bitcoin network)
727  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Poll. UASF or Segwit2x? on: July 15, 2017, 04:35:36 PM
I had gone through some of the Jihan's tweet, not now, when it was the BU propaganda, now Segwit2x, just out of curiosity, biggest manufacturer of mining equipment/owner of the biggest mining pool, not with a predefined notion, but with an open mind, but this guy never fails to portray how egoistic he is, he doesn't give a damn about the technical aspects, being too egoistic to only care about reaping profits from his manufacturing business and by dominating bitcoin mining, thus centralizing the whole network.

Either Segwit2x or UASF, bitcoin would have Segwit activated, that's what matters for me. I am not against bigger blocks, but in my opinion it isn't necessary at this point in time, rule out the spammers from the equation and you still have smooth and fast transaction network. Some wouldn't agree with me and it is understandable, lightening network or side options is centralization in their opinion, but my point is I don't want the network to be forked for the sole reason of getting control over it.

Jihan is a mining equipment manufacturer, Ver has the elite approach, Wright is just a wannabe Satoshi, common sense is more than enough to grasp that these guys don't give a damn about average bitcoin users.

Neither trolling nor I have any strings, just my opinion.
728  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: [BREAKING NEWS]: Bitcoin to be Legalized in India!!! on: July 15, 2017, 11:14:41 AM
Our leading story of the day focuses on Indias legalization of Bitcoin.

https://cointelegraph.com/news/suddenly-bitcoin-to-be-officially-legal-in-india

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2021761.0

"Suddenly, Bitcoin to Be Officially Legal in India"
posted Jule 20, 2017
https://cointelegraph.com/news/suddenly-bitcoin-to-be-officially-legal-in-india

Bitcoin exchanges in India have been able to operate but they have been self-regulating using strict Know Your Customer and Anti Money Laundering measures (https://veratad.com/solutions/identity-verification/) in place. These areas will now fall under government regulation.

Funny side note--a member of the parliament in India likened Bitcoin to a Ponzi scheme as recently as March of this year. Pretty wild.
"In a letter to the Finance Ministry and the Reserve Bank of India, Somaiya explained that Bitcoin is a pyramid Ponzi-type scheme. However, Somaiya was criticized for his inability to understand the structural and fundamental difference between a Ponzi scheme and Bitcoin."




That June 20 article from Cointelegraph is a classic example of clickbait. Bitcoin isn't illegal in India, but it is still not officially legal. The government is planning to regulate bitcoin, but working on the legal framework and bitcoin would come under goods and services tax.

Quote
The fate of bitcoin and other virtual currencies may hang in the balance for some more time as the government appointed panel is unlikely to formulate regulations around it.

But in what may be come as a relief to bitcoin-watchers, a government official privy to the development told Moneycontrol that bitcoin and other virtual currencies are unlikely to be declared illegal in India.

http://www.moneycontrol.com/news/business/economy/exclusive-bitcoin-unlikely-to-be-declared-illegal-in-india-regulatory-ownership-not-decided-yet-2326247.html

Unlike the old article with no factual content, this one does make sense, https://cointelegraph.com/news/bitcoin-to-be-taxed-like-gold-in-india
729  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: Website like Rushbitcoin? on: July 15, 2017, 11:08:40 AM
    Hi all, im usually earning satoshi's in Rushbitcoin, its a very good website to earn and advertise with bitcoins, its just effective way to get satoshi, there are many ads in there, my website got huge visits, because they have many ads in there, everytime you visit one website, 5+ people click your website, each time you got views, your satoshi will be charged, but now im out of ads, they said they will refresh the ads but it takes very long time, like one day one ads...., and also they dont allow multiple accounts, so can someone tell me a good website like Rushbitcoin, when you can earn satoshi while get traffic to your links? Cry

So you are looking for a bitcoin traffic exchange/social media exchange website. There was 4bc network, it is down now. Try, https://theviralexchange.com

You can cashout your earnings through bitcoin.

This is their official BCT thread, https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1088056.0 (The admin hasn't been online for quite some time, but I guess the website is still paying)
730  Bitcoin / Project Development / Re: Faucets on: July 15, 2017, 10:49:06 AM
Are faucets worth it?

I mean could i make some bucks with a faucet, or many?

As an owner, yes but it will take time and we are not even sure if people will still attract to the faucet system. On the other hand, as a normal user, forget it. I suggest to think of other method to earn bitcoin. Doing faucet will eat too much of your time but still, the payout is low.

We valued our time that's why the payout must be worth the effort which is not present in faucet activities nowadays.

Hey, i mean as a owner, yes, i'm developer and i'm hunting the way to earn bitcoins, so it is worth to develop a fauces from scratch, with some nice RPG feature to level up, and earn more for the end user?

Or having more as one faucet, how much money could i earn?



I wouldn't not say faucets are unprofitable, there wouldn't be so many faucets if the faucet admins weren't making any profits. Some of the RPG faucets by mexicantarget are quite popular. Since you are a developer you can create a custom unique faucet. Generic faucet scripts have no variety, somewhat same rewards and timer, users visit, claim, leave, lack of user engagement. Moon bitcoin does have daily loyalty bonus, same with RPG faucets, users actively engage in these sites to increase their earnings.

Don't start a faucet expecting big returns in the beginning, you might end up in loss in the first couple of weeks, but with good user engagement and ad monetization you will start to make small profits gradually.
731  Bitcoin / Legal / Re: Legal But Regulated or Unregulated But Illegal? on: July 15, 2017, 08:28:36 AM
It absolutely needs to be on a legal accepted framework, otherwise any gov't can just come in and seize your assets. There is no stand to make, that fight for complete independence from gov't regulation has already been lost, most of us just haven't realized it yet.

Currently, you are very incorrect.

There are two forms of governmental regulation.
(1) "Indirect Regulation" which has no true power over the Network or Users.
(2) "Direct Regulation" which asserts governmental controls into the Protocol.

A "Legal Framework" within/upon the Protocol automatically terminates the token's
purpose. Arguing that this may have already occurred would contradict it's current
existence. If your belief actually occurs, you will see bitcoin's value drop to nothing.
The only people who would then remain are scammers, ponzi slaves, and ignoramuses.

What you are referring to is Indirect Regulation of the token by third party
systems that are not part of the Bitcoin Network. That "Legal Framework" is
worthless to the bigger picture. Those systems are expendable if necessary.

In addition, any government has the power to seize your property now, whether there
is a Legal Framework or not. Bitcoin/bitcoin is currently "legal" because illegality can
not be enforced. If it can be enforced by Direct Regulation, than your legalities are
actually governmental guarantees and the Network only functions by the sole whim of
that governmental controller. Obviously, if that occurs, Bitcoin no longer has value
since it provides no real utility. It's original function is negated.

Yeah, I think what we are seeing in Japan or Australia is indirect regulation of bitcoin which is necessary for its growth. These indirect regulations treat bitcoin as a currency or an asset and enforce up on it their currency or asset laws including taxes, but this doesn't give the government any true power over the network. Majority of countries haven't regulated bitcoins, but haven't proclaimed it illegal either.

I don't think direct regulation of a decentralized network is possible. The government could do three things with bitcoin.

Unregulated but legal/not illegal
Regulated and legal
Unregulated and illegal/banned
732  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin finally legal in India on: July 15, 2017, 06:47:47 AM
"Suddenly, Bitcoin to Be Officially Legal in India"
posted Jule 20, 2017
https://cointelegraph.com/news/suddenly-bitcoin-to-be-officially-legal-in-india

Bitcoin exchanges in India have been able to operate but they have been self-regulating using strict Know Your Customer and Anti Money Laundering measures (https://veratad.com/solutions/identity-verification/) in place. These areas will now fall under government regulation.

Funny side note--a member of the parliament in India likened Bitcoin to a Ponzi scheme as recently as March of this year. Pretty wild.
"In a letter to the Finance Ministry and the Reserve Bank of India, Somaiya explained that Bitcoin is a pyramid Ponzi-type scheme. However, Somaiya was criticized for his inability to understand the structural and fundamental difference between a Ponzi scheme and Bitcoin."




That June 20 article from Cointelegraph is a classic example of clickbait. Bitcoin isn't illegal in India, but it is still not officially legal. The government is planning to regulate bitcoin, but working on the legal framework and bitcoin would come under goods and services tax.

Quote
The fate of bitcoin and other virtual currencies may hang in the balance for some more time as the government appointed panel is unlikely to formulate regulations around it.

But in what may be come as a relief to bitcoin-watchers, a government official privy to the development told Moneycontrol that bitcoin and other virtual currencies are unlikely to be declared illegal in India.

http://www.moneycontrol.com/news/business/economy/exclusive-bitcoin-unlikely-to-be-declared-illegal-in-india-regulatory-ownership-not-decided-yet-2326247.html

Unlike the old article with no factual content, this one does make sense, https://cointelegraph.com/news/bitcoin-to-be-taxed-like-gold-in-india
733  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: HELP: Bankers are conquering Uruguay. This could be the beginning of the End. on: July 15, 2017, 06:23:25 AM
I had read that Uruguay is called the Switzerland of South America, a progressive society, solid democracy, less corruption, citizens have the right to challenge and change constitutional laws. But like you mentioned for the international media, Uruguay might be a beautiful and peaceful social liberal paradise.

The point I am missing here is bitcoin isn't banned in Uruguay. In Localbitcoins you can find buy/sell through National bank transfer. As far as the banking system exists it would interfere with people's privacy and there is always a possibility of a banking crisis. With the points you mentioned, it looks like the Uruguayan government is trying to build a cashless society which is good.

It's physical money that is behind all the corruption, it should be suppressed, and electronic means of payment should be adopted for a cleaner and better economy.

Start a petition on change.org and if the citizens of Uruguay agree with your sentiments they will sign it, but I can't find a single logic how bitcoin donations are going to be helpful in this scenario. Mind explaining for what purpose these donations would be used for?

HI,
Yes, at least we have democracy, that's why we are collectign signatures. We were "Switzerland of South America" because there was a time when Uruguay were a rich country with bank secret, but those times don't exist anymore, we have good things (compared to S. Amer.) but that's because we had yet better things, now is declining, constantly, this is not product of this government. About we are liberals, maybe we are but we aren't since the government control everything. Soon, they will ban Bitcoin, they want total control and bitcoin don't offer that.
The problem is, as I mentioned, the lost of privacy, being controled by the banks and government. I don't want the 2%, or more, of the GDP going to banksters abroad. Small business having to close because they can't compete with big transnational companies that have agreements with the banks to offer big disccounts using their cards, the small business can't make that kind of agreements. Also, they can't do small sales if they don't have contracts with the banks, because de costs and fees.
I try to don't be conspiparanoic but the Rothschilds are directly in this. Probably they want to use us as a laboratory and example to made the same in the rest of the world, as happen with the marihuana, the ex-president said openly that is a experiment to share with others in the world (like Soros)

The donations, I deleted, I can't ask it in bitcointalk. It's because we have to spend in lot of things like stamped t-shirts, viatics, printing, publicity, etc.

Quote
Uruguay's financial system is comprised of banks, financial houses, offshore banks and representative offices of foreign banks. Banking in Uruguay is protected by one of the world’s tightest banking secrecy regulations. Banks cannot share information with any party, including the government of Uruguay.  The only exceptions are two: a) If a Family Court from Uruguay requests it in an alimony process; and b) If a Uruguayan Criminal Court requests it, backed by sufficient evidence of a crime. The criterion is effectively applied, since banking secrecy is a crucial competitive advantage of Uruguay’s banking system.

http://bankingin.com/uruguay.html

I just found this on the internet, it looks like banking in Uruguay has much more privacy than my country, but you live there so the current situation might be different. I guess with 2% of GDP going to outside banks is related to offshore/foreign banks. If privacy is the concern then offshore banks provide:

Quote
greater privacy.
little or no taxation.
easy access to deposits.
protection against local, political, or financial instability.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bank_secrecy
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Offshore_bank

Getting donations for collecting 250,000 signatures is understandable. Petition for banking secrecy/a decentralized government/if possible make bitcoins legal. Good luck with that.
734  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: HELP: Bankers are conquering Uruguay. This could be the beginning of the End. on: July 15, 2017, 04:07:50 AM
I had read that Uruguay is called the Switzerland of South America, a progressive society, solid democracy, less corruption, citizens have the right to challenge and change constitutional laws. But like you mentioned for the international media, Uruguay might be a beautiful and peaceful social liberal paradise.

The point I am missing here is bitcoin isn't banned in Uruguay. In Localbitcoins you can find buy/sell through National bank transfer. As far as the banking system exists it would interfere with people's privacy and there is always a possibility of a banking crisis. With the points you mentioned, it looks like the Uruguayan government is trying to build a cashless society which is good.

It's physical money that is behind all the corruption, it should be suppressed, and electronic means of payment should be adopted for a cleaner and better economy.

Start a petition on change.org and if the citizens of Uruguay agree with your sentiments they will sign it, but I can't find a single logic how bitcoin donations are going to be helpful in this scenario. Mind explaining for what purpose these donations would be used for?
735  Other / Politics & Society / Re: The problem of cemeteries and until where the cemeteries will be sustained? on: July 14, 2017, 04:35:41 PM
Imagine if the ancient Egyptians still ruled Egypt, more than half of Egypt would have been filled by pyramids Grin

For environmental reasons, cremation (does release pollutants such as mercury and carbon dioxide into the atmosphere, but could be filtered out) is better than traditional burial.

Quote
Cremation might be preferable for environmental reasons. Burial is a known source of certain environmental contaminants, with the coffin itself being the major contaminant. Another environmental concern is that traditional burial takes up a great deal of space.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cremation

For environmental reasons, natural burial is better than traditional burial.

Quote
Natural burial is the interment of the body of a dead person in the soil in a manner that does not inhibit decomposition but allows the body to recycle naturally. It is an alternative to other contemporary Western burial methods and funerary customs.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_burial

A good percentage of land area is taken up by cemeteries because of the monuments erected on it.

Metaphorical meaning of headstone.

Quote
A grave monument (or headstone) is a sign of respect or fondness, erected with the intention of commemorating and remembering a person.

For environmental reasons (less space) natural burial without headstone is better.

Metaphorical meaning of unmarked grave.

Quote
An unmarked grave is one that lacks a marker, headstone, or nameplate indicating that a body is buried there. As a figure of speech, a common meaning of the term "unmarked grave" is consignment to an ignominious end.

The religious aspect connected with burial and cremation is all about afterlife and reincarnation. No room for environmental sentiments.

Google, world running out of burial space and you will realize that it is a real concern in the near future. Burying the dead would turn into a booming business in the future, recycling graveyards.
736  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: How's Steemit works? on: July 14, 2017, 11:31:05 AM
I got an account there ages old, still dunno how's it works...
just keep posting then you can earn?

Sorry but not much time to read their FAQ  Tongue

This is the best Steemit guide, https://steemit.com/steem-help/@mindover/steemit-made-simple-everything-you-need-to-know-to-get-started-updated-and-expanded

Steemit pays both the content creators and the people who upvote thus helping to curate the best content available on the site (The more Steem Power Units you have, the more your curation vote will count). Otherwise it is easy to abuse the voting system.

There is Steem, Steem Power, and Steem Dollars. You get paid for your content in Steem Dollars which you can convert to Steem and withdraw or you can earn interest by holding your Steem Dollars or you can exchange your Steem Dollars for Steem Power thus earning a substantial amount if Steem price increases in the future.

Follow the link for posting guidelines, curation, upvoting, following etc.
737  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Definition 1: A Real Bitcoin USER is a MINER on: July 14, 2017, 10:03:33 AM
All so called 'active user' (UASF) here are either just small Hodlers or Trolls.

why?

Satoshis first job as a real USER was: launch a miner ( full client )

All following code / task splits were only to optimize things and share tasks ( miner, node, wallet, hodl ), but the biggest users invested most in mining also because of incentives.

So to claim to be a full Bitcoin user, you should :

Run a full node, mine and hodl. Be a maximal supporter of the network and scale the shit!

Just runnign a Rasp PI and own less than say e.g. 1 Bitcoin is nice and a good start, but does not qualify enough to say : full user.

Finally, these full users should also do full risk checks about any code, hardware and all the rest and decide what to set into production -> their risk!

BTW, beeing a miner safes your ownings best!

Yeah the current situation is users vs miners, but I don't agree with an user who mines can only be called a real bitcoin user. Do you think each and every bitcoin user can afford mining equipments? I am not a hodler and trying hard not to troll, but be realistic.

The bitcoin users who hodl, trade, use it as a medium of exchange, but not mine are as integral part of bitcoin system as the node operators, miners, and developers.

The car analogy is cool, yeah bitcoin users are mere share holders.

Quote
Shareholders buy shares in a company and, as such, are part-owners of the business. Shareholders are very important stakeholders because they put money into the business. They contribute capital to the business and expect to share in the company's profits.

Without being race team owners or track supporters, but just by being shareholders, contributing capital to the racing company, the non-mining bitcoin users are keeping the racing company alive, the rest of the so called owners and supporters are making a profit from the shareholders contribution. To put it bluntly, no bitcoin users = no developers, no node operators, no miners and vice-versa.

Bitcoin users and miners are interdependent. Bitcoin is not some privately held company where 99% of shareholders are the owners, it is a decentralized network and if some fools with infinitive men power and energy resources believes that they can independently control the network then they are fooling around.

Yeah, I do agree that mining does give an user the power to be an internal part of the network, are bitcoin users/not miners internal or external? In both the case like I said, interdependency is all that matters.

In short, for me, each and every user who supports bitcoin, has a stake in bitcoin, no matter how small it is, and opposes centralization is a real bitcoin user including miners as far as they agree up on the last part.
738  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Funding a movie with Bitcoin possible? on: July 14, 2017, 07:09:34 AM
Would it be possible to fund a reasonable budget movie (say $10MM) via BTC or Ether?

What do you think would be required to get enough interested contributors including some whales?

Yeah it is possible to find contributors for a bitcoin centered movie/documentary, Life on Bitcoin documentary was funded through Kickstarter, 247 backers contributed $72,995, awesome concept and executed very well, https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/bitcoinlife/life-on-bitcoin-a-documentary-film

Another Bitcoin movie related project on Indiegogo, a flexible budget of $1.5 million, but failed, raised only $8, the concept sucks,
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/the-bitcoin-movie

Right now, documentaries are one of the best medium to convey the concept of bitcoin. Bitcoin: The End of Money As We Know It, The Rise and Rise of Bitcoin, Banking on Bitcoin are some of the best bitcoin documentaries. Something on these grounds, but still unique would get some funding from bitcoin enthusiasts.

A $10 million budget sounds like a commercial movie. Even it would be difficult to raise such an amount through crowdfunding platforms for a movie. Investing in movies is risky, some people invest to support artistic freedom or they support the concept of that movie or the obvious reason, to get a good profit on their investment.
739  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: COULD SATOSHI NAKAMOTO BE HOLDING 2.2 MILLION BITCOINS? on: July 14, 2017, 04:55:50 AM
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=175996.0

all the old timers disproving even the 1 million figure

That's an interesting thread, would like to point out a couple of quotes.

1. Satoshi mined almost alone from 1/3/2009 to 1/25/2010 (block 0 to block 36288).
He did not. I mined during that time— so did many other people I've talked to. As you're probably aware the original software mined _very_ slowly, and contemporary hardware was slow. Heck even a fairly current machine with state of the art software can just barely do enough hashrate for difficulty 1. (and god, before more handout requests come: Bitcoin was worthless then, the software was annoying windows-gui only— I ran it in wine+vncserver, and I didn't keep my original wallet)

As many have pointed out it is unlike Satoshi was a single person. So the idea there is a single $100M winner is dubious.  When you remove the effect of other Satoshi miners the "satoshi share" is much smaller.  If you then divide that among multiple participants it is likely the initial adopters have tens of thousands of coins and could sell them for millions.  Say "Satoshi" mined half the coins, and Satoshi is 10 people, and a third of them have been sold.  Oh noes each creator has ~80,000 BTC.  BTC which is worthless unless the economy continue to expand.  I don't lay awake fearing what the creators will do with their wealth.  If they wanted to dump it they had plenty of opportunity especially last week.  Note: before this gets misquoted I am not saying each creator has 80,000 BTC but it is just as plausible as the $100M headline number.

When Satoshi announced the first release of the software, I grabbed it right away. I think I was the first person besides Satoshi to run bitcoin. I mined block 70-something, and I was the recipient of the first bitcoin transaction, when Satoshi sent ten coins to me as a test. I carried on an email conversation with Satoshi over the next few days, mostly me reporting bugs and him fixing them.

That's my story. I'm pretty lucky overall. Even with the ALS, my life is very satisfying. But my life expectancy is limited. Those discussions about inheriting your bitcoins are of more than academic interest. My bitcoins are stored in our safe deposit box, and my son and daughter are tech savvy. I think they're safe enough. I'm comfortable with my legacy.
[edited slightly]

Bitcoin and me (Hal Finney), https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=155054.0

It is believed that Satoshi has around 1 million bitcoins, it is not a fact or a statement backed by evidence, random guess. It might be true or false. Is it possible to track down each and every address owned by Satoshi? No. Does Satoshi still have private keys of all his addresses? Don't know. Since the Genesis block was mined until today bitcoin has gone through several phases of highs and lows. It is possible that Satoshi might have sold his coins during one of these phases or might still be holding it, but we don't know. Most importantly is Satoshi an individual or a group of individuals? We have no idea.

A lot of assumptions can be made, but it is not worth anything unless it is backed by a solid research/evidence. I personally don't care how much bitcoins Satoshi have or not.
740  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Ranking list of the oldest crypto coins on: July 14, 2017, 03:01:15 AM
Does anyone know if this exists?

If not, thinking of compiling a list like this myself. Only looking at coins over 3-4 years old. By now a lot of the coins of that era have disappeared, would be helpful to quickly see of the ones that remain which are oldest.

The Wiki list of cryptos is useless and misses tons of coins. Always has been useless, I don't know why...

Yeah wikipedia has listed only a few cryptocurrencies. I don't think it would be easy to find a compiled list of all the cryptocurrencies based on their release date. I found this website, https://www.altcoincalendar.info/calendar

They have listed altcoins according to date, but I don't how accurate it is or the listed coins are in circulation now.

Yeah, compiling a list would be a good idea, but I guess it would take some time. Coinmarketcap has listed around 972 cryptocurrencies, you would have go through each coins announcement or historical data to get the release date.
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