Important announcement. 1. I've significantly underestimated the amount of time and work required to build a large enough community around Byteball. Also, there is development work to be done that's unlikely to be completed and properly tested before the originally planned launch date in early November. That's why I'm pushing back the launch date to Christmas. The snapshot will be taken on the first Bitcoin block timestamped on or after December 25, 2016 00:00:00 UTC (Christmas block). I値l begin to send out bytes in the afternoon of Dec 25, unless there are major reorgs on the Bitcoin network. 2. I stay true to my original intention to distribute 98% for free, but find it useful to split the distribution into several pieces. On December 25, we値l distribute only 10%. A month later, we値l make a new snapshot and distribute another 20%. Two months later, the next 30%. Three months later, the remaining 38%. The exact numbers may me adjusted depending on the results of previous rounds and the progress of the address linking campaign. The reason I chose to split the distribution into several rounds is that it gives more people an opportunity to participate. It is impossible to reach every Bitcoin holder before livenet is launched. We値l make news by distributing the first 10%, the network will become fully functional, hopefully we値l get listed on exchanges, all that will help many more people notice Byteball. Each subsequent distribution round will have similar effect. In each distribution round, we take a new snapshot. Exactly as previously advertised, the amount of bytes you receive in the 1st round will be proportional to the BTC balances that you show on the linked Bitcoin addresses in the Christmas block. The 2nd and subsequent rounds are slightly different. You show both your BTC balances (as before) and your balance in bytes. You have a sort of basket that consists of a mixture of BTC and bytes. To determine the weight of the basket, every 62.5 MB are counted as 1 BTC. For example, if you have 125 MB and 3 BTC, the weight is 2+3=5 BTC. The distribution of new bytes on the 2nd and subsequent stages is proportional to the weight of your basket. The ratio 62.5 MB per 1 BTC is chosen so that the total money supply of bytes (10 15) and the total number of BTC in circulation (16,000,000) are equivalent. Earlier adopters have the opportunity to participate in greater number of distribution rounds and receive new bytes in each round by using the same BTC balance and bytes received in previous rounds. You are effectively doubling your stake in each additional round you take part in. 3. The linking phase (when you link your Byteball and Bitcoin addresses) of the 1st round will start in early December or late November. 4. We値l run more active marketing in the coming months to grow our community before the 1st distribution round. 5. We doubled our development team: my colleague https://github.com/kakysha (not a real photo) is already helping me improve the wallet. 6. We値l run a test flight of the distribution in November. You will be able to link your Bitcoin testnet address to your Byteball testnet address, and the distribution will be proportional to your BTC testnet balance. https://twitter.com/ByteballOrg/status/787248332469112836the split of the distribution sounds good, but why don't you do it like nxt->ardor on more splits (daily?) With your concept people can still sell a huge amount of coins between the splits. i think this is also more practicable, because like this people will borrow some money / shortly sell other coins for a few minutes only... I don't want to force people to lock their funds for extended periods of time. A currency should be used to buy/sell stuff, not just sit on a pile of coins. It's OK that people borrow money or sell other coins/fiat for BTC or bytes just before each snapshot. |
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@tonych Is there a good tutorial for linking BTC account with Byteball, it's still a bit unclear to me on how exactly that's done. Thanks.
You'll link accounts in December. Before that, in November, we'll run a test flight of the distribution: you'll be able to link testnet Byteball to testnet Bitcoin. I'll announce when we start the test flight. |
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Experiencing some problem with Blackbytes send
Receiving works fine, just a couple of seconds after addressing ("insert my address") blackbytes transaction appears
I have two bytes wallets
Sending blackbytes from wallet 1 to wallet 2 cause an error message like this: use device address. Error persist using device address
You should send blackbytes _only_ by clicking an address or payment request in chat. We'll update the UI in the future release to avoid confusion. |
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cyberhacker, will PM you.
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The 2nd and subsequent rounds are slightly different. You show both your BTC balances (as before) and your balance in bytes. You have a sort of basket that consists of a mixture of BTC and bytes. To determine the weight of the basket, every 62.5 MB are counted as 1 BTC. For example, if you have 125 MB and 3 BTC, the weight is 2+3=5 BTC. The distribution of new bytes on the 2nd and subsequent stages is proportional to the weight of your basket.
Does it mean that we have to lock the BTC balance in the linked address (for the first snapshot) for 3 months? No, you may move the coins into the linked address just before each snapshot, and move out immediately after. Put another way - My BTC balance in linked address at first SS is 3 BTC. after first SS, I move 3 BTC out and then move 6 BTC into linked address just before second SS. will the basket be counted as 2+6 = 8BTC?
If you didn't move the bytes you received for showing 3 BTC in the first SS, your basket will be 3+6=9 BTC. What is the weight if I have zero BTC in that linked address at time of second SS?
Then the weight is calculated purely based on your bytes balance, unless you sold the bytes. |
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To clarify, when you say 10% distribution, do you mean 10% of the balance of Bitcoin is accounted for?
No, 10% of bytes will be distributed. Also, will be need our private keys to claim Byteballs in our Byteballs wallet?
You will need any wallet where you control the private keys. Coinbase and exchange wallets do not qualify. |
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There was a question in the German thread if I'm going to use in the distribution rounds the 1% of bytes that I keep for myself and the 1% that I keep for future distribution to 100m users.
Short answer: I don't use them.
The 1% held for future giveaways: I値l store these funds on a publicly known address and won稚 touch them for a long time.
The 1% I keep for myself: I値l store the funds on an address that I publicly announce, but I might move the funds. However, it will be easy to track the movements.
I値l keep this 1% separate from the funds that I receive from my bitcoins, which I will obviously use in every round.
To sum up, I don稚 use these 2% in distribution rounds and it will be easy to verify.
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Quick question: did you read the white paper?
I posted after reading your paper. And there explicitly defined that group of Witnesses may orphan the part of chain. You returned to model of trust. It is not innovation. Please point me to the place in the white paper that made you think that "group of Witnesses may orphan the part of chain". Did you read Satoshi white paper? 1. Introduction
Commerce on the Internet has come to rely almost exclusively on financial institutions serving as
trusted third parties to process electronic payments. While the system works well enough for
most transactions, it still suffers from the inherent weaknesses of the trust based model.
Completely non-reversible transactions are not really possible, since financial institutions cannot
avoid mediating disputes. The cost of mediation increases transaction costs, limiting the
minimum practical transaction size and cutting off the possibility for small casual transactions,
and there is a broader cost in the loss of ability to make non-reversible payments for nonreversible
services. With the possibility of reversal, the need for trust spreads. Merchants must
be wary of their customers, hassling them for more information than they would otherwise need.
A certain percentage of fraud is accepted as unavoidable. These costs and payment uncertainties
can be avoided in person by using physical currency, but no mechanism exists to make payments
over a communications channel without a trusted party.
What is needed is an electronic payment system based on cryptographic proof instead of trust,
allowing any two willing parties to transact directly with each other without the need for a trusted
third party. Transactions that are computationally impractical to reverse would protect sellers
from fraud, and routine escrow mechanisms could easily be implemented to protect buyers. In
this paper, we propose a solution to the double-spending problem using a peer-to-peer distributed
timestamp server to generate computational proof of the chronological order of transactions. The
system is secure as long as honest nodes collectively control more CPU power than any
cooperating group of attacker nodes.
6. Incentive
The incentive may help encourage nodes to stay honest. If a greedy attacker is able to
assemble more CPU power than all the honest nodes, he would have to choose between using it
to defraud people by stealing back his payments, or using it to generate new coins. He ought to
find it more profitable to play by the rules, such rules that favour him with more new coins than
everyone else combined, than to undermine the system and the validity of his own wealth.
That's what I started with. And transactions in Byteball are irreversible exactly as in Bitcoin. And what encourages your Witnesses to stay honest? Politik debates in facebook? Primaries? We see this shit in politiks. Nobody is honest there. Public face trading doesn't work as honesty enforcement IRL.
They have to be honest long before they become witnesses. They have to invest a lot in building a reputation in the real world, and they have to have a lot to lose (again, in the real world, not just in their witnessing fees in Byteball) in case they ruin the reputation. And after they become witness, everything they do on Byteball is transparent, visible, and auditable in real time. Given the slightest doubt in trustworthiness of any particular witness, there will be quite a few people to shout that witness A should be replaced with a new witness B. |
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3. PoW is still owned and operated by people, fallible and corruptible. Yes, but PoW doesn't allow to concentrate majority of voters in federal reserve, Washington DC. Because Washington and USA at all - doesn't produce enough electricity to gain majority of network power. Your PoW (Proof of Witness hehe) allows it without any significant expenses for Big Brother. As he easily manages thousands of IRL puppets. There will be no problem to create and inject thousands virtual "good guys" into community. Photos, IDs, facebook pages - not a problem. Even creation of real life person not a problem. Quick question: did you read the white paper? |
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So you offer to choose between Trump and Clinton - who will accept our coins authority?  2. The trust model is pretty limited: you trust that the majority of witnesses do not try to post nonserial transactions. Nothing more.
This is huge responsibility - trust them to proove your coins are "honest". This is what actually banks do. This is a power of authority. They may just reject your chain and you will stay naked. What are your sources? Where did you read that witnesses have a responsibility to prove somebody's coins? What if major Witnesses are honest for some time and then - boom and they are now bad guys? (analogue of 51% attack).
Well, your threat model is that 12 witnesses were carefully selected exactly for their trustworthiness, closely monitored (all their actions on Byteball are clearly visible by everybody), replaced from time to time, this all went well for years, and now, 7 out of 12 witnesses, all at the same time, turn their asses on everybody else. What for? Yes, they can double-spend against somebody, and by doing that they nuke the network, along with the profits from their double-spend. |
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The 2nd and subsequent rounds are slightly different. You show both your BTC balances (as before) and your balance in bytes. You have a sort of basket that consists of a mixture of BTC and bytes. To determine the weight of the basket, every 62.5 MB are counted as 1 BTC. For example, if you have 125 MB and 3 BTC, the weight is 2+3=5 BTC. The distribution of new bytes on the 2nd and subsequent stages is proportional to the weight of your basket.
how yu verif BBs solde for the next distribute ? should we send BBs on bytes adresse and submit a micro pay like btc ? No, you don't have to make a micropayment in bytes. You just tell (the chatbot) your Byteball address. This is the same address that will receive the new bytes, so there's no point in lying and telling somebody else's address. |
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Satoshi invented Blockchain and PoW to escape and remove third-party authority. You invented third-party authority (Witnesses) to escape from blockchain concept. Fucking genius Paypal is better. Satoshi's work was great, but we shouldn't stop there. A few important details to keep in mind: 1. Witnesses are chosen by users (unlike miners) 2. The trust model is pretty limited: you trust that the majority of witnesses do not try to post nonserial transactions. Nothing more. 3. PoW is still owned and operated by people, fallible and corruptible. |
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Tony, i understand the main difference between IOTA and Byteball is ordering.
If Byteball needs transaction ordering won't this mean it automatically reduces its scalability 100-fold?
What exactly do you call ordering? |
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The ratio 62.5 MB per 1 BTC is chosen so that the total money supply of bytes (1015) and the total number of BTC in circulation (16,000,000) are equivalent.
They are not going to be equivalent based on their market cap. Why don't you take a market price of bytes for NAV estimate. You should be able to do this by the time of the second round. There is no market cap of bytes, let's create it. But by the time of second round there will be. They will be traded at exchanges, won't they? Hopefully yes. Even if they are not, the coins will be already in user's hands, nothing will stop them from trading OTC. |
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Important announcement.
1. ... I値l begin to send out bytes in the afternoon of Dec 25 ... Thanks for announcement! What is your plan about blackbytes distribution? Sorry missed that. Blackbytes are distributed in the same proportions as bytes. |
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The ratio 62.5 MB per 1 BTC is chosen so that the total money supply of bytes (1015) and the total number of BTC in circulation (16,000,000) are equivalent.
They are not going to be equivalent based on their market cap. Why don't you take a market price of bytes for NAV estimate. You should be able to do this by the time of the second round. There is no market cap of bytes, let's create it. |
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Important announcement. 1. I've significantly underestimated the amount of time and work required to build a large enough community around Byteball. Also, there is development work to be done that's unlikely to be completed and properly tested before the originally planned launch date in early November. That's why I'm pushing back the launch date to Christmas. The snapshot will be taken on the first Bitcoin block timestamped on or after December 25, 2016 00:00:00 UTC (Christmas block). I値l begin to send out bytes in the afternoon of Dec 25, unless there are major reorgs on the Bitcoin network. 2. I stay true to my original intention to distribute 98% for free, but find it useful to split the distribution into several pieces. On December 25, we値l distribute only 10%. A month later, we値l make a new snapshot and distribute another 20%. Two months later, the next 30%. Three months later, the remaining 38%. The exact numbers may me adjusted depending on the results of previous rounds and the progress of the address linking campaign. The reason I chose to split the distribution into several rounds is that it gives more people an opportunity to participate. It is impossible to reach every Bitcoin holder before livenet is launched. We値l make news by distributing the first 10%, the network will become fully functional, hopefully we値l get listed on exchanges, all that will help many more people notice Byteball. Each subsequent distribution round will have similar effect. In each distribution round, we take a new snapshot. Exactly as previously advertised, the amount of bytes you receive in the 1st round will be proportional to the BTC balances that you show on the linked Bitcoin addresses in the Christmas block. The 2nd and subsequent rounds are slightly different. You show both your BTC balances (as before) and your balance in bytes. You have a sort of basket that consists of a mixture of BTC and bytes. To determine the weight of the basket, every 62.5 MB are counted as 1 BTC. For example, if you have 125 MB and 3 BTC, the weight is 2+3=5 BTC. The distribution of new bytes on the 2nd and subsequent stages is proportional to the weight of your basket. The ratio 62.5 MB per 1 BTC is chosen so that the total money supply of bytes (10 15) and the total number of BTC in circulation (16,000,000) are equivalent. Earlier adopters have the opportunity to participate in greater number of distribution rounds and receive new bytes in each round by using the same BTC balance and bytes received in previous rounds. You are effectively doubling your stake in each additional round you take part in. 3. The linking phase (when you link your Byteball and Bitcoin addresses) of the 1st round will start in early December or late November. 4. We値l run more active marketing in the coming months to grow our community before the 1st distribution round. 5. We doubled our development team: my colleague https://github.com/kakysha (not a real photo) is already helping me improve the wallet. 6. We値l run a test flight of the distribution in November. You will be able to link your Bitcoin testnet address to your Byteball testnet address, and the distribution will be proportional to your BTC testnet balance. https://twitter.com/ByteballOrg/status/787248332469112836 |
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@tonych how yu will distribute android wallet holder, this is will made automatically or we must contact you to warning you ?
Distribution will be automatic, nothing special about android wallet. |
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Would it be possible for alt coins to be included in the distribution count or are you ONLY going to do BTC?
I ask because I currently hold mostly altcoins and I'd have to start selling off holdings at a significant loss to gain my Byteballs.
Which would feel like biting my balls!
I realize that some alts are illiquid and the spreads are huge, but we are distributing only based on BTC balances. |
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