We will have to agree to disagree here.  I simply cannot see how your method offers a less bulky, a cheaper, more convenient and more secure means of storing one's private keys than Trezor. However, as the saying goes: To each his own. No harm, no foul.  I am confident others will see what I see. My method is... 1. Less bulky. 2. Far cheaper. 3. More convenient. 4. More secure. 5. More control. 6. Brand-independent. 7. Trustless. In other words: You are confident that others will like you, only see what they want to see. I yet have to meet another person that is as subjective and against hardware wallets such as yourself. |
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Here's the thing.
If you trust Trezor too much, there is nothing further I can say, or need to say.
I don't trust "Trezor too much," but I am sorry to say, to claim that your method is superior is simply not based on facts. |
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Sorry I almost screwed my posting just now.
Please do NOT be blinded off the limitations of Trezor, or any hardware wallet.
Be impartially objective as you would trying to find the best way to secure your hard-earned money.
And you will learn my method is the best method.
I sell no hardware. I sell no service. I give only free advice that I sincerely believe is the best.
No worries. Given the information available and what was stated, I simply don't agree with your conclusions. You have clearly shown that you have zero love for hardware wallets of any kind (e.g. "I dislike (and never recommend) using hardware wallet") - yet, claim to be impartially objective. Before coming here, I did my own due diligence and thoroughly scrutinized Trezor. I've learned that while it is not completely bullet proof, especially under certain circumstances - just like with your method, it is certainly counts among the best means to secure one's private keys from a cost, convenience and security perspective. |
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1. The keyword is to use a formatted and forever-offline computer.
2. Any decent computer that is installed to be able to run the offline address generator (like offline MEW), the latest WinRar, and a good DVD burner will do fine. Of course, you need some good DVDs too. I personally recommend Verbatim's AZO DVDs because their product is more stable (quality does not deteriorate, based on the type of chemical they used even under sunlight for hours; refer AZO; I believe they offer lifetime warranty too, how about that). And probably some wallet to double confirm your addresses and private keys generated are valid. No, you don't need expensive, high-powered computer for this simple task.
3. Offline means you are doing it offline AND in private (as reasonably expected). A formatted computer (as mentioned) is a virus/keylogger/malware-free computer.
4. Cloud computing is just one example of the myriads of locations you can store your digital backups. If you want free online backup, you can send yourself an email with the backup attached.
5. My method is simplified (as stated) and does not need any Linux or blockchain download to do the job.
6. Like I said, no different OS than you are already using is needed.
7. I don't agree to the recommended backup (send to friends).
You can be ultimately critical on my method, but let me request the same level of "criticality" on Trezor, objectively.
We will have to agree to disagree here. I simply cannot see how your method offers a less bulky, a cheaper, more convenient and more secure means of storing one's private keys than Trezor. However, as the saying goes: To each his own. No harm, no foul. |
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Software companies make money by creating, developing and selling software and/or access to that software. The more paying users make use of it, especially ones with big pockets (such as institutions, exchanges and sovereigns), the better, right? Now imagine a world in which software piracy will have little to zero effect in terms of the accessibility to a given piece of software and/or system.  |
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@Dorky I see you edited your post. I only responded to what you originally posted. In any case, I've posted what I wanted to post. I stand by it. |
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Kindly explain. Thanks.
If you understand my method, you would realize my method is very closely similar to having a hardware wallet. In fact, my method is also very closely similar to a paper wallet. The only difference is it is in digital format and fully controlled by the user. Paper wallet is not digital. Hardware wallet is not fully controlled by the user. In fact, I derived my method from https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/How_to_set_up_a_secure_offline_savings_wallet, but simplified. My method does not need different OS like Ubuntu. It also doesn't depend on 3rd-party hardware wallet. And yet it achieves similar, if not higher, level of security, as well as much higher control. Thank you. Let me scrutinize it a bit to the benefit of all. So that we can make informed decisions. 1. "Hardware wallet is not fully controlled by the user" - A hardware wallet such as Trezor is issued by a 3rd party, but not 3rd party dependent in terms of recovery ( https://news.bitcoin.com/trezor-moves-closed-source-backend-server-open-source-using-bitcore/ + https://doc.satoshilabs.com/trezor-faq/threats.html). Even the "clean air-gapped computer" you use was manufactured and provided by a 3rd party (as well as the software). 2. What do you use as a "clean air-gapped computer"? How big is it and how much does it cost? 3. "And yet it achieves similar, if not higher, level of security, as well as much higher control" - How come? "Used correctly, an air-gapped wallet is safe from all online threats, such as viruses and hackers. It is however still exposed to offline threats, such as hardware keyloggers, extortion, or people looking over your shoulder" ( https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/How_to_set_up_a_secure_offline_savings_wallet). This while Trezor eliminates more than one of these risks, including the threat posed by hardware keyloggers. 4. "Sign up for a few different cloud drive accounts such as Dropbox or Google drive" - How are "cloud drive accounts" cheaper and safer than what Trezor provides? 5. "Download Bitcoin-Core Linux binary and save it on a USB drive" - The Bitcoin-Core Linux binary is over 145 GB large. Many parts of the world don't have access to cheap internet access and bandwidth. How do the cost of downloading 145 GB+ (and growing!) plus the cost of an USB device work out cheaper than €89? 6. "Shut down your computer, and boot Ubuntu (or Linux distribution of you choice) from a liveCD" - In other words, you make use of software provided by a 3rd party? How is this better and more secure than what Trezor offers? 7. "Backup encrypted wallet.dat file in several places:
Send it to your 5 best friends by email attachment and ask them to save it for you.
Save it on your cloud drive accounts created in step 1.
Save it on several USB drives and CDs and store them in different geographic locations"How is this not exposed to lost and/or theft as you claim? I could continue, but the above should suffice for now. Thanks. |
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Is your method fully secure against lost and/or theft?
Yes. Kindly explain. Thanks. |
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Why go through all that trouble when you can secure it with something that is more secure and convenient and costs only €89?
The reason is to have 100% control (you aren't relying on any 3rd-party for salvation). The method I suggested is not less secure and is not troublesome for the sake of 100% control, max security, and cost far less. But then, to each his own (for those who seek the easiest way out for max convenience regardless of less control may get the hardware wallet). Even then using hardware wallet does not spare the user the trouble of securing the mnemonic phrases. However, I dislike the video implying .rar file is insecure, that everyone needs to have Trezor, and that to me is false information. Mike B could have educated the viewers on how to make a very secure cold storage in .rar with strong encryption instead, but he didn't. In fact, I dislike (and never recommend) using hardware wallet also because if something screws up (such as the mnemonic phrases got lost or stolen), the whole savings is at stake. With my method, savings can be segregated into multiple addresses and compartmentalized in varying level of security as the user prefers, and any address at stake will not jeopardize the others. Nevertheless, to each his own. I do not wish to impair nor harm anyone with my suggestion nor wish to be penalized for making a good suggestion. - "users do not have to depend on SatoshiLabs’ servers availability anymore": https://news.bitcoin.com/trezor-moves-closed-source-backend-server-open-source-using-bitcore/ Even if SatoshiLabs shuts down, one will still be able to use Trezor and/or recover one's private keys: https://doc.satoshilabs.com/trezor-faq/threats.html"Even then using hardware wallet does not spare the user the trouble of securing the mnemonic phrases" - It is not difficult to store a printable Trezor recovery seed separate from the wallet in a secure place. When the wallet gets lost/stolen, the recovery seed can be used to recover the private keys. "In fact, I dislike (and never recommend) using hardware wallet also because if something screws up (such as the mnemonic phrases got lost or stolen), the whole savings is at stake" - You meant to say when "someone" screws up. Now when someone screws up, it is certainly not Trezor's fault. That being said, Trezor gives one the option to protect against recovery seed theft with a passphrase. Thus, one can completely eliminate risks attached to recovery seed theft. Is your method fully secure against lost and/or theft? "With my method, savings can be segregated into multiple addresses and compartmentalized in varying level of security as the user prefers, and any address at stake will not jeopardize the others" - Trezor allows one to create multiple accounts and within each of those accounts one can generate an endless number of key pairs. Don't get me wrong. I am open to multiple methods of security, including yours. However, not all methods are as secure and convenient as a hardware wallet such as Trezor. |
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I like that Bullet Train song Paul Maritz! Good pick!!!!  Any guesses for when Veritaseum passes ETH price??? Thanks. I am glad you like it. My gut feeling tells me VERI might pass the ETH price before or by Friday the 14th, but who knows for sure. |
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Veritaseum at #16.... choo chooo we're chasing you down Ethereum!!!!!!! 1:1 price parity.... let's see it!!!!!!!!
haha That's the spirit! It reminds me of this song: https://youtu.be/0d7GnOP2_PI |
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Goodluck cracking an AES-256 7zip file with a long password They will die trying.  Edit: Nevertheless, my point is that we don't really need any hardware wallet (or any expensive 3rd party wallet) when we can create our own inexpensive cold storage in password-protected .rar files burned in high quality DVDs from a formatted forever-offline computer. Why go through all that trouble when you can secure it with something that is more secure and convenient and costs only €89? |
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Yes, way slower, but not impossible.
It is indeed a 100% possibility, maybe in some countless millions of years. Why don't you issue a direct challenge to hackers? It is the quickest way to find out! I would like Mike B to prove me wrong since he said .rar file can be decrypted/forced. Mike is a good guy, but others might take you up on the challenge. |
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Yes, way slower, but not impossible.
It is indeed a 100% possibility, maybe in some countless millions of years. Why don't you issue a direct challenge to hackers? It is the quickest way to find out! |
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With the software they use, they can do it much quicker. However, even assuming they can't, they have ways to obtain your private keys and other information once you use the relevant password to open the .rar file. It is not safe. A hardware wallet such as Trezor is more secure.
Yes, the article debunked that too. Winrar actually somehow made each cracking effort wayyyy much slower than the software permits. If only I can find that article again... Yes, way slower, but not impossible. |
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It is possible, but will take a longer time.
The time could take hundreds of years, if not thousands, or millions. https://stackoverflow.com/questions/11807869/how-to-crack-aes-128-encryption-used-in-winrarThe idea is that the encryption does not actually store the password that any brute force can find out. Decryption thru brute force will not work in reasonable time. There was an article I found many days ago about how encrypted .rar file is way much more secure than encrypted .zip file, I tried to find it but can't. Edit: The article explained well why a good password-protected .rar file cannot be cracked/decrypted by brute force or any software program. With the software they use, they can do it much quicker. However, even assuming they can't, they have ways to obtain your private keys and other information once you use the relevant password to open the .rar file. It is not safe. A hardware wallet such as Trezor is more secure. |
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I think they can crack the .rar file thru brute force, which only works with very weak password like "abcd". However I am not sure if they can do the same with password like "ThIs!iSn%Xampl5". Edit: .zip file is not the same as .rar, as I know it. .zip file is very weak encryption. But the same can't be said with .rar file. It is possible, but will take a longer time. |
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I think the best way to secure your wallet is to...
1. Generate new addresses from a formatted computer that is never going to be connected online.
2. Encrypt these addresses into password-protected .rar file (I don't think .rar file can be cracked, I believe it is very very secure).
3. Burn this .rar file into multiple copies of high quality DVDs (I recommend Verbatim's AZO DVDs).
4. These addresses will only be used as cold storage and transfer is done only when necessary.
Example, I generate 10 addresses and cold-store my bitcoin, ethereum, and erc20 tokens in them.
Say I have 100 BTC and generated 10 addresses.
I transfer 10 BTC to each of the addresses.
If I want to make an unavoidable transfer, I use only one of the 10 addresses.
If one of the addresses, once used, gets hacked, the remaining 9 addresses will remain safe.
With this method, I believe nobody absolutely need any hardware wallet like Trezor, Keepkey, Ledger, etc.
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=.rare+file+cracked |
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