I think the point is that you cannot order either the batch 8 or batch 9 units at this time. Yes, the officially listed price is 0.58BTC for the batch 8 units, and it's very likely the batch 9 units will be priced lower; however, since you can't actually order one, the price is kind of irrelevant. If you want an S3 right now, you're going to have to find a reseller, or a private sale - and those prices are going to be higher than what Bitmain lists.
The units linked to aren't shipping now either though and there's the chance you might not even receive anything from a "reseller". Buying overpriced miners from ebay and similar sites is just a bad idea. |
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You counter an accusation like "You won't see a dividend in September" by saying: "September 17th at 12:15PM is the scheduled dividend distribution per a promise made to the board."
I'm not saying his opinion is right or wrong - I'm saying detractors get traction when there is no details to counter with.
I already countered RoadStress on that and he already admitted that it wasn't a fact. His opinions don't need to be countered. He's free to think whatever he wants but when he starts trying to pass those opinions off as facts, that's when his bullshit needs to be called out. |
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Chances are the tubes will not work though...the fail rate is amazing. I agree SP is expensive, but at least it works. AM does 0 quality control.
Wasn't it actually your Ethernet controller which failed? You know, that cheap, separate component you were told by FC to buy a couple of because they were known to be shit? That component you only bought 1 of for some reason despite being warned about their failure rates? That component you can just easily swap for a new one? That component which isn't even actually necessary to mine with? Didn't you sell the Tube anyway? |
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RoadStress and Lambchops don't complain about poor communications though. Lambchops is just trolling. He posts the same old shite in every security thread he trolls. RoadStress is just trying to sell more Spondoolies miners. Most of us here can see exactly where these 2 people are coming from, which is why most people ignore Lambchops and call RoadStress a shill.
Neither user has anything to contribute to this thread.
But, nothing they say can be countered, because of the info vacuum. (I can't comment on the shilling for Spoondoodle - it seems they have issues of their own to deal with) How exactly do you counter trolling? Also, what exactly needs to be countered? Their non-existant arguments that AM needs better communication? That's not an argument that needs to be countered, that's a real problem which the majority of shareholders would like to be addressed by FC as it effects them directly. RoadStress is easy to counter, just ask him for a source for his information and he counters himself. |
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All of us got involved knowing that communication has always been bad with AM.
I give AM more latitude than any other company I deal with.
Almost to the point that I feel guilty when I hold real people to actual standards.. I almost feel like a hypocrite.
I would never, in a million years, put this much money at risk - in the real world - with these types of chronic communication deficiencies.
When shit does hit the fan, communication is crucial.
It can sabotage even the most talented, able company.
I see where road and chops are coming from.
They're not wrong.
The communication stuff sucks and needs corrected sooner, and with more of a priority, than it is currently.
RoadStress and Lambchops don't complain about poor communications though. Lambchops is just trolling. He posts the same old shite in every security thread he trolls. RoadStress is just trying to sell more Spondoolies miners. Most of us here can see exactly where these 2 people are coming from, which is why most people ignore Lambchops and call RoadStress a shill. Neither user has anything to contribute to this thread. |
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Here is another FACT: You will not see any dividends in September.
No, that's an opinion. How many times will this need explaining to you before you finally comprehend the difference between an opinion and a fact? Seriously, it isn't that difficult to understand, yet you continually demonstrate a complete lack of understanding. It really is remarkable. |
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Like I said, you'd have to find a complete moron. They're only $270 USD directly from Bitmain's official site. The top ebay link costs $325 + $121.65 shipping, for 10th of October delivery.  |
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Talk about hypocrisy.
Why not state your AM affiliation in your signature so that everyone can know that you are an AM shareholder that is shilling for AM products? When I was stating my opinions in the AM thread everyone (you included) accused me about being an SP-Tech shill that just wants to troll the AM thread. But when you come here praising AM products you are hiding that fact that you are an AM shareholder and that you have a gain from promoting the Tubes. You are talking about hypocrisy when you are doing the exact same thing. I date you to state your AM affiliation in your signature, but I know that you will not do it. Move along now... Actually, I didn't say anything positive about any products. I just stated you could get x amount of y for the cost of z, making z terrible value. Also, given that I'm not promoting any miner and that I don't even have a mining banner in my sig, how could you possibly accuse me of being a shill for a Spondoolies competitor? How does that even make sense? When I have an AM banner in my sig and I'm promoting AM products (like you and Spondoolies) in competitors threads, then you can call me a shill. |
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...
Always pleasure to have another AM devotee in our little thread. I must say, compare to his horde of zealots, FC in person is a great guy. Usually, I would have asked abour dividends, but since AM gen4 is around the corner, it saves me the trouble. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/MirageBeside, Athens is great and I have good mood. Guy What was the point of that little rant of yours? It is a fact that you can buy 3 AM Tubes + PSUs for less than you can buy an SP20 + PSU for. That's why you didn't even bother trying to deny it. You just rant about AM zealots coming here which is even funnier considering that you were actually trolling the AM thread yourself, have spouted lots of misleading nonsense over there and an actual zealot - RoadStress is still there making up crap and pretending its facts. Talk about hypocrisy. Instead of trying to create diversions, why not respond to the actual issue - the price of SP20 being far to high. If you don't like that fact, you actually have the ability to do something about it. |
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Teh only lulz in here are your lameful once in a while trolling  I don't know why you're even bothering wasting your time with this person. Just stick him on ignore. He just basically repeats the same old crap every post regardless of the thread. "It's a scam. I warned you from the very beginning! I'm so clever and you're so stupid!" His rambling is just boring and predictable at this point. |
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tube 0.8Th
S3 0.453TH
SP-20 1.7TH
so 2.125 (equivalent of SP-20) tubes would be $1062. Plus, you also use ~2kw vs 1.1kw for Sp-20 or ~$80 extra/mo for the equivalent number of tubes/Sp-20.
So, after 5-6 mo, cost is roughly the same (if everything works 100%).
What's with the weird calculations? An SP20 with shipping and PSU costs 1600 USD whereas an AM Tube with shipping and PSU costs 500 USD. For 100 USD less I can get 0.7 Th/s more from AM hardware. As for the running costs working out over 6 months, how long do you expect the hardware to stay up and running for? The impression I've gotten from most miners is that they don't expect their hardware to last that long. That SP20 price is simply terrible. |
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We are in a very early R&D phase. Submit a contact form and I'll get you on the list to be notified when the Kickstarter sets off.
This is a dumb idea. Don't send them money. Home Bitcoin mining is dead, killed by increasing difficulty. It's not even a new dumb idea. Over 30 years ago, there was the Frenette Friction Furnace, an electric motor driving a brake. This is just the Internet-enabled version of an old scam. People always make this mistake. It's not the difficulty which hurts home miners, it's the difference in the cost of electricity and the lack of volume being ordered. When it comes to BTC mined per Gh/s, someone with 100 Ph/s will mine at the same rate as someone with 1 Th/s. If electricity costs were 0 and the miners all cost the same per Gh/s, the profits would also be the same. |
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I did better with the 2 s-3s as selling 2 s-3s today for 300 each would be a breeze.
I seriously doubt it unless you find a complete moron. A brand new S3 and a brand new PSU would only cost you $320. I think you'd be lucky to get $200 for the S3s. |
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Yes, this is very interesting.
However, for the moment, FC should be 100% concentrated on getting AM on track in current model (chips, miners, self-mining) - just a matter of priority.
When AM claims, in sustainable way, let's say equivalent of 25%-30% of network hashrate, then such ideas could be absolutely great for the more distant future.
In my view AM has already lost the mining game with both miners sold to customers and the self-mining. I mean Bitfury who started later than AM has/had ~40%-50% of the network hashrate at one point just a few months ago. Even KnC started with one 10MW DC and now they have 3 DCs. If they can do it then AM, who had the head start could do it too, but at this point they just don't matter. Call it trolling or whatever, but it's just my opinion based on what's going on: low sales, no information about the self-mining hashrate. As always feel free to contradict me with facts instead of calling me names. FACT: You don't have any information to be making the claim that miners are not selling as well as expected. You don't have the necessary info to backup the majority of your claims. FACT: You keep making stuff up and presenting it as facts when it's actually just opinion. FACT: With PSU and shipping included, 3 Tubes costs less than a single SP20 and will provide 2.4 Th/s compared to 1.7 Th/s. |
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SP20: 1.7 TH/s, 2.5 BTC, ships late Oct, shipping cost not included.
S3: 1.8 TH/s (4x450), 2.3 BTC, ships late Sep, world-wide shipping cost included.
The S3 will mine nearly 1 BTC before the SP20 even ships. That puts the net price like this:
SP20: 2.5 BTC+shipping
S3: 1.3 BTC
The SP20 is twice as expensive!
I'm always a complainer about price, since it is the one factor that makes or breaks a sale. Seems I'm not the only one. This is the way it always has been. Do I want to keep ordering other manufacture hardware? No, but I can't even break even with the retail of the Spon-Tech prices. Other manufactures (chinese for example) I can, because I get them in hand NOW and hash away though out the house. With PSU and shipping, you're looking at around 1,600 USD for an SP20. An S3 comes out to about 320 USD with PSU (not sure about shipping cost) and an AM Tube comes to around 500 USD with PSU and shipping costs. So, you could get 3 Tubes or 5 S3s for the cost of a single SP20. |
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Guys keep your wits about you. Just because BTC is getting shuffled around, doesn't mean that dividends are imminent. It doesn't even mean that the BTC is going to be used for any purpose. If it's going to be spent though, there could be numerous things it could be spent on. It could be dividends, gen 4 tape-out and batches, gen3 farms, more batches of gen 3, refunds even.
Divs would be nice though.
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any dividend payment of any size would be a good sign
No definitely NOT at 0.0003BTC level! Would such a dividend along with news of gen 4 tape-out suffice? Would such a dividend paid every week for the next year be acceptable to you? What exactly are you expecting anyway in the form of dividends? |
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What information would you like to see?
Passing this question on to the others. Yeah, csv-export of all trades or shares im-/export would surely be nice. I can also second the request for recent trades, that list needs to be bigger. But I guess you were just offering to give us some data to play around with, right?  I also agree that that recent trades list is far too short.. As well as increasing it's length, a link to the csv at the top or bottom of the recent trades list would work well. |
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He also said very clearly that the had the gen 4 tape-out date.  Yes... unfortunately we don't know when it is. It could be nothing but a projection for a few months out, or it could be a few days away. It's understandable wanting to keep something like that undisclosed so as not to tip off competition, but AM is in dire need of better communication with both its customers and shareholders. The board members mentioned that PR is being worked on, but then again, we've been hearing that PR is being worked on for over a year, and nothing's ever happened on that front. If the gen 4 tape-out date is known, then it's almost certainly been paid for already. That would go a long way to explaining the lack of dividends so far and could mean that gen 4 is far closer than we all imagine. This seems like the most logical explanation to me. |
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