Don't let them to take your weapons!!, when they take your weapons this is what happens, civilians are left to fight with stones and sticks against helicopters like this photo on Oaxaca, Mexico shows:  You must have the wrong photo there -- I don't see civilians throwing sticks and stones against helicopters, just helicopters. Can you post the correct photo? |
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my subjective view is that the pool doesn't actually appear to benefit by mining additional blocks. By which I meant that the extra hashing power doesn't seem to result in additional blocks being mined – at least, not conspicuously so – but I haven't looked at the figures in detail. I kinda jumped the gun there, huh. |
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Must be a lot of new hardware going online for the pool. Saw a drastic jump to 76.00 Ph/s. Could've sworn it was 68/69 at least two hours ago. I saw it reach 82,10 Ph/s at one point, and one block was found when the rate was 81,32. But every time somebody throws a huge amount of extra power into the mix the only effect seems to be to reduce the amount we get paid per block — my subjective view is that the pool doesn't actually appear to benefit by mining additional blocks.  Generally, the bigger the pool the lower the variance -- and all miners want lower variability in their income, right? |
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New bitcoind is much faster than the old one at generating block templates so they switch away from their empty SPV block work sooner than they used to.
Thanks, -ck. Which bitcoind? Was it available after October last year (when we first started to see much smaller interblock durations than previously)? |
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Empty blocks have reduced significantly since the start of the year. Anyone know a simple reason why?
Coz I annoyed F2Pool and they did something about their empty blocks. OK, I asked for that. Anyone know of a more complex reason -- for example did F2Pool did anything to reduce the need for empty blocks? Yeah I've no idea exactly what they did. Either they stopped SPV, or they are adding random useless txns to their SPV mining. I've not looked at what's in their short blocks (i.e. blocks found just after another) But the point that I think made FUPool take notice was the fact that solo.ckpool and kano.is where the top 2 block sizes of all pools and a BIG gap below us. On kano.is I only set it to 988888 and still I was 2nd top of the list well above the others. Here's the list (6 months): http://data.bitcoinity.org/bitcoin/blocksize/6m?t=lScroll down to "Blocks size by mining pool" and click twice on "Average size" Bitminter, AntPool and slush are way down the list ... and eligius near the bottom - eligius is to blame for starting the empty block "idea". But if you do a shorter time span (30 days): http://data.bitcoinity.org/bitcoin/blocksize/30d?t=lSolo is still at the top, but I'm only 4th since others seem to have made larger blocks recently also. eligius still sux down at the bottom ... with slush  They're still making empties though so they're still SPV mining -- just not as regularly, I guess. |
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Empty blocks have reduced significantly since the start of the year. Anyone know a simple reason why?
Coz I annoyed F2Pool and they did something about their empty blocks. OK, I asked for that. Anyone know of a more complex reason -- for example did F2Pool did anything to reduce the need for empty blocks? |
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Empty blocks have reduced significantly since the start of the year. Anyone know a simple reason why?
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Ahhhhhh...... It's cooled down.... Now I'm happy
Fuck all of you pro-summer people coming in here, get your own thread.
Yeah, last thing I want to be reminded of mid-winter is that someone thinks summer is "nice". Summer is: Horrible. Moist. Smelly. Chafey. What's "nice" about that? |
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Atheists often criticize religion, so a perception develops that atheism must be anti-religious — but this is not quite true. Atheism is just the absence of beliefs in gods and can thus occur inside or outside the context of religion. Thus, an atheist might be devoutly religious, devoutly anti-religious, or completely apathetic with regards to religion — exactly as with theists. It all depends on the individual and what ideas, beliefs, or principles they have aside from atheism.
The previous umpteen times this information has been posted has been met by derision by a small but vocal group of pro-religious posters. Apparently that noisy few think they understand atheism better than atheists -- I guess they know what you think better than you do. |
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Thanks for the information fronti. It's sad -- BTCMP have been around a long time, mid-2011 if I remember correctly. It's also the end result for any PPS pool unless it's sufficiently well backed. |
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Edit: PPS is expected to pay you less for 2 extra reasons: 1) The fees on a PPS pool must be higher to avoid the risk of the pool going broke. There's a document about that requirement of higher fees, by the other stats guy: Meni ... something (I can't remember his exact name ) 2) The reward doesn't include transaction fees, which here seems to average over 1% quite well, for quite a while ... as the block stats shows. Meni Rosenfeld. He has a couple of good papers: http://arxiv.org/find/all/1/all:+AND+meni+rosenfeld/0/1/0/all/0/1but this one is about pooled mining reward methods: http://arxiv.org/pdf/1112.4980v1.pdfThe date is correct. Pooled reward methods were investigated a long time ago, which is why it frustrates me (and kano and everyone else who has been here for a while) to see the same fallacies come up so regularly . |
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im sorry, thanks for the info..
Np, and sorry about the crap formatting. |
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Did you have some worthwhile information to add, or are you simply back to take another shot at me? Can't help but notice the whole "Slush is untrustworthy" tangent seems to have finally disappeared and instead you seem determined to make this about me, despite the fact I have only offered information from outside sources coupled with my own opinions. Are you insinuating there is some controllable factor for a pool or miner to squeeze out >100% lifetime luck? I really hope not as this is *by my understanding* the whole reasoning behind the difficulty system (to ensure the odds of a block being found by entity A are the same as entity B, all other factors being equal). No human generated system can be absolutely random, as pointed out earlier in the thread, bandwidth/latency, relative location of nodes, etc. all have an impact. However, from the point of view of the network, those factors vary from miner to miner, pool to pool, and can change constantly. I'm pretty confident Organofcorti would agree any gain from having a better connection (and claiming the 1/10,000 blocks [Just a number for illustrative purposes, don't get all worked up] that end up being submitted *just* faster than another) would be impossible to prove either way due to variance. Pretty sure I had it right thanks, anyone who has actual information PLEASE correct me as you even quoted me on: I'm just trying to educate while I continue to learn myself. I'm guessing what Kano means is that if the luck statistic is unusually high (poor luck, say at ten blocks a CDF of greater than 0.99999 or a thousand blocks at a CDF of 0.999) then it may be that something untoward is happening -- in this case a block withholding attack event. If we could know that the result is simple "bad luck", then you what you've written is correct. This is not always the case so for any pool recent extremely poor luck statistics could predict future "bad luck" if: 1. There is a reason for the poor luck statistic 2. This reason has not been addressed by the pool operator. In the case of GHash.IO for example, I informed them of their abnormally poor luck scores a long time before they actually did anything about it. In their case, there was an actual attack in which the same hashes could be resubmitted and counted as valid and unique as long as upper and lower case letters were considered different. This went on for quite a while before it was eventually fixed, and turned out it was a known bug that had been addressed in other pools much earlier and AFAIK before exploited. |
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So the top are not scams??? What do you mean -- which are the top? They're not in order of reliability. How we can now what is not??
i been in some cloud mieners sites and after a few months they just disappeared
Greetings
"Cloud mining" means you don't actually have any mining equipment, is that right? On this board, we're concerned with bitcoin pooled mining, where users have their own equipment and use mining pools, rather than investing in cloud mining. You might find your answers in the "Marketplace" board. |
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If someone takes the time to do the math on all that information they freely share, they might see where the problem lies. Like an almost exactly 10% less payout that expected over the life of the pool...
I don't see anything like that when I do the stats. How exactly are you calculating this? well there is the post that you bring it to attention.. but that was only after we got shafted from slush.. here is a look at slush stats when the shit hit the fan.. There is a whole sluice of issues slush had with the relay network then a ddos for allowing vote to 8 mb then the block withholder.. All that happen back to back.> Per your guide.. http://organofcorti.blogspot.com/2016/01/january-17th-2016-mining-pool-statistics.htmli dont have time atm to dig any further.. all pools need to show like phil said. all blocks and then a gradual decrease to last 5 or 10. Kano sets an example how simple is best... That lost btc can never be replaced unless the Genesis mining comes forth and wants to save their reputation.. Ive already tweeted to them >> but of course no reply.. Something not taught in school and apparently not by parents is how to own up to your mistakes.. Its turning this world into a pile of crap if you ask me. Best Regards d57heinz BTW.. Kano i didnt know that it was genesis.. i have given you shit in past but that is before i realized the pattern of honesty and transparency from you that is so lacking in this industry.. this space needs more like you for sure.. THankful for that. Please don't lie. I'm well aware of what I wrote, and I've never written that there has been a 10% loss over the life of the pool. Do you have lifetime number? Or any long term numbers for them. 98.2% of expected over the life of the pool. Orphans were more common when the pool started, and tx fees (included in the calculation) were often zero at that time, so 1.8% down over the lifetime of the pool is acceptable. At ~62% the CDF is certainly not unusual.
Pool reported statistics since 2010
Pool No.Blocks orphans luck CDF %Profitability
1: DeepBit 31218 115 1.01 82.7% 101%
2: Discus Fish 28117 197 1 25.5% 100%
3: Slush 26680 319 1 61.6% 98.4%
4: GHash.IO 23371 314 1.04 100.0% 91.1%
5: AntPool 16261 178 1 27.5% 101%
6: BTC Guild 13595 86 - - -
7: 50BTC.com 12060 218 - - -
8: Eligius 11403 235 1.03 99.6% 91%
9: EclipseMC 6561 30 0.72 0.0% 84.1%
10: BitMinter 6483 306 1.02 97.5% 107%
11: Ozcoin 4855 22 1.07 100.0% 98%
12: MTRed 2205 17 0.99 31.4% 99.1%
13: p2Pool 2198 41 - - -
14: Polmine 2069 25 1.1 100.0% 88.4%
15: Mineb.tc 1692 38 1.02 78.9% 94.4%
16: Itzod 1379 6 1.01 69.3% 102%
17: Kano.is 909 8 0.93 1.7% 108%
18: Bitparking 633 19 1.15 100.0% 95.2%
19: HHTT 632 1 - - -
20: Triplemining 508 0 1.04 84.3% 92.1%
21: BTCMP 390 12 0.89 1.2% 85.6%
22: BTCDig 34 1 1.01 54.9% 84.1%
23: MMPool 33 0 0.95 40.7% 94.2%
Per your guide organ.. A pool has to allow a miner to go thru what should have been ten blocks to be able to detect a block with holder.. So yea 250 btc at least. More info to come.. 2. How can a pool detect block withholding efficiently? All the suggestions I've read depend on waiting until a miner has returned a sufficient amount of work to have solved on average(yes but with bad luck it could have been double average or triple. who is to know for sure Ive got data to back up when this started) ten blocks but has actually solved none. This has a lower tail Poisson probability of exp(-10) ~ 0.000045399, so this would happen by chance only once in every 22026 user accounts. Unfortunately this means losing 10 blocks worth of credit for the pool, and depending on how the pool treats the loss, it may mean a loss for honest miners too. However there are more efficient methods to detect unintentional block withholders (and since an intentional block withholder can simply have many different user accounts in parallel or sequence, it may not be possible to detect an intentional block withholder at all). http://organofcorti.blogspot.com/2016/02/detecting-unintentional-block.htmlHere is where slush finally detected it.. https://slushpool.com/news/2016/02/06/recent-low-luck-information/ And nowhere there did I say that there has been a ten percent loss over the life of the pool. Another forum member just made that up but now you're saying it's something I wrote? Nothing in the quotes backs up the claim. Please just post a retraction. |
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If someone takes the time to do the math on all that information they freely share, they might see where the problem lies. Like an almost exactly 10% less payout that expected over the life of the pool...
I don't see anything like that when I do the stats. How exactly are you calculating this? well there is the post that you bring it to attention.. but that was only after we got shafted from slush.. here is a look at slush stats when the shit hit the fan.. There is a whole sluice of issues slush had with the relay network then a ddos for allowing vote to 8 mb then the block withholder.. All that happen back to back.> Per your guide.. http://organofcorti.blogspot.com/2016/01/january-17th-2016-mining-pool-statistics.htmli dont have time atm to dig any further.. all pools need to show like phil said. all blocks and then a gradual decrease to last 5 or 10. Kano sets an example how simple is best... That lost btc can never be replaced unless the Genesis mining comes forth and wants to save their reputation.. Ive already tweeted to them >> but of course no reply.. Something not taught in school and apparently not by parents is how to own up to your mistakes.. Its turning this world into a pile of crap if you ask me. Best Regards d57heinz BTW.. Kano i didnt know that it was genesis.. i have given you shit in past but that is before i realized the pattern of honesty and transparency from you that is so lacking in this industry.. this space needs more like you for sure.. THankful for that. Please don't lie. I'm well aware of what I wrote, and I've never written that there has been a 10% loss over the life of the pool. Do you have lifetime number? Or any long term numbers for them. 98.2% of expected over the life of the pool. Orphans were more common when the pool started, and tx fees (included in the calculation) were often zero at that time, so 1.8% down over the lifetime of the pool is acceptable. At ~62% the CDF is certainly not unusual.
Pool reported statistics since 2010
Pool No.Blocks orphans luck CDF %Profitability
1: DeepBit 31218 115 1.01 82.7% 101%
2: Discus Fish 28117 197 1 25.5% 100%
3: Slush 26680 319 1 61.6% 98.4%
4: GHash.IO 23371 314 1.04 100.0% 91.1%
5: AntPool 16261 178 1 27.5% 101%
6: BTC Guild 13595 86 - - -
7: 50BTC.com 12060 218 - - -
8: Eligius 11403 235 1.03 99.6% 91%
9: EclipseMC 6561 30 0.72 0.0% 84.1%
10: BitMinter 6483 306 1.02 97.5% 107%
11: Ozcoin 4855 22 1.07 100.0% 98%
12: MTRed 2205 17 0.99 31.4% 99.1%
13: p2Pool 2198 41 - - -
14: Polmine 2069 25 1.1 100.0% 88.4%
15: Mineb.tc 1692 38 1.02 78.9% 94.4%
16: Itzod 1379 6 1.01 69.3% 102%
17: Kano.is 909 8 0.93 1.7% 108%
18: Bitparking 633 19 1.15 100.0% 95.2%
19: HHTT 632 1 - - -
20: Triplemining 508 0 1.04 84.3% 92.1%
21: BTCMP 390 12 0.89 1.2% 85.6%
22: BTCDig 34 1 1.01 54.9% 84.1%
23: MMPool 33 0 0.95 40.7% 94.2%
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If someone takes the time to do the math on all that information they freely share, they might see where the problem lies. Like an almost exactly 10% less payout that expected over the life of the pool...
I don't see anything like that when I do the stats. How exactly are you calculating this? well there is the post that you bring it to attention.. but that was only after we got shafted from slush.. here is a look at slush stats when the shit hit the fan.. There is a whole sluice of issues slush had with the relay network then a ddos for allowing vote to 8 mb then the block withholder.. All that happen back to back.> Per your guide.. http://organofcorti.blogspot.com/2016/01/january-17th-2016-mining-pool-statistics.htmli dont have time atm to dig any further.. all pools need to show like phil said. all blocks and then a gradual decrease to last 5 or 10. Kano sets an example how simple is best... That lost btc can never be replaced unless the Genesis mining comes forth and wants to save their reputation.. Ive already tweeted to them >> but of course no reply.. Something not taught in school and apparently not by parents is how to own up to your mistakes.. Its turning this world into a pile of crap if you ask me. Best Regards d57heinz BTW.. Kano i didnt know that it was genesis.. i have given you shit in past but that is before i realized the pattern of honesty and transparency from you that is so lacking in this industry.. this space needs more like you for sure.. THankful for that. Please don't lie. I'm well aware of what I wrote, and I've never written that there has been a 10% loss over the life of the pool. |
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If someone takes the time to do the math on all that information they freely share, they might see where the problem lies. Like an almost exactly 10% less payout that expected over the life of the pool...
I don't see anything like that when I do the stats. How exactly are you calculating this? |
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Hi guys,,
Just looking for some reviews of pools, What pool do you use and why?
Looking to drop just under 1TH onto a pool, We are looking to find out what everyone things is the best pool out there.
And reason why you think this..
Thanks in advance.
You might consider joining an etherum pool. The coin is doing well at present... not sure what the future holds. This is the bitcoin mining board, please move altcoin discussions to the altcoin board. |
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