couldn't find the "Picture of your mining farm" thread so i guess this will do. phase 1  That's never gonna work with those AC units lol |
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Hi!
I'm thinking about investing large-scale in bitcoin miners and was wondering who i should speak to about potentially collaborating on the construction of a mine.
Are there any other investors out there who have any recommendations?
Thanks,
Charles
Hello there, Where are you based, which country? Regards, |
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Pbmining are keeping a large % of the bitcoin, i'm having troubles getting back the bitcoin I've invested due to the ongoing raise in difficulty, in the next 3 months I'm going to need the block difficulty drop to 5-10% so that I can at least make back my initial btc invested with them so yes they do keep a large % of the mined bitcoin but at least i have a chance of making them back unlike cloudhashing which are scamming people which aren't well informed like I was 4 months ago when I bought 100 ghs from them.
How does that mean they are keeping a large %? |
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10 months ago the most powerful ASIC miners were producing 15-50 Ghs and consuming same power as todays 1-5 Ths ASIC miners. Its not hard to imagine that in 10 months we'll be talking about 100-200 Ths miners that will consume the same power of today. The prices were also similar couple of thousand dollars so really they could be really mining but they won't come with more details of their operation so that they don't attract more customers, or it could be a scam. Its risky business, I wouldn't encourage anyone to go into it without knowing the risks. However I can guarantee you that you'll make at least 50% ROI loss by going with cloudhashing, they are pure thieves with their prices.
10 months ago we were no where near state of the art ASICs, that is no longer the case. There will be gains, but they aren't going to be an order of magnitude gain in 10 months, especially when it comes to power. I am an electrical engineer so I have some idea what I'm talking about. Besides at the prices being charged, there isn't any room to replace the miners at PBMining. They are out of money from the sale in just a couple months if they are actually mining and have access to hardware no one else does. Reality is much worse. Now if they were keeping back 50% of the BTC, maybe, but they aren't. Couldn't agree more. $2 per GH/s doesn't leave room for the electric costs let alone hardware upgrades down the line which would be an impossible business model anyway. It's clearly established $2 for 5 years mining with no further costs is not possible. |
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Hottest day of the year today 27c managed to keep the hardware at 54c or less with everything on full blast.
42c + in the hot aisle. Very difficult to work in, installing more miners.
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Just a quick note, alongside 'mining now' we're now also offering Pre Orders again from only $1.17 per GH/s They Start September or a full unconditional refund is available. http://www.groupbitcoin.com/products/group-bitcoin-cloud-mining-pre-orderWe've also just got our electricity costs down on a bulk tariff which should be in effect for these new contracts. Standard terms apply. |
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A few bitcoin will pay off ALL pbm contracts years 2 thru 5.
Why in hell would they waste money running equipment to mine a few satoshi?
The power argument is ABSURD.
The thread asks the question 'PBmining - legit ?' In terms of mining no. It's clearly impossible to provide what they sell. The fact you seem to think this doesn't matter is ABSURD |
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They are not going to use the same inefficient hardware to mine for the next 5 years.
If they bought Antminers, they watts per gh are what? 1.5watt to the gh?
If they ordered SP30's from Spondoolie, the watts per gh becomes 0.5watt per gh or less.
If BFL ever ships, their wattage is even less. If they downclock, the wattage is even less than that.
Plus, you have to look at top end vs bottom. If a thousand miners bought in at 1gh. They can buy a single Dragon Miner to mine that at 1.1watt to the gh now. Then, later, they can put all 1000 people on an Imperial Monarch and pay 0.45 watts per gh.
The power argument over 5 years is stupid. Due to the difficulty rise, the folks mining after the first year are only going to earn a few Satoshi. They can buy a modern miner at that time, and pay those people for the entire rest of the four years on that one miner's profits in the first couple months.
They aren't going to just have a miner running and pay more for power than it profits. That's insane.
I'm critical of these guys as much as anyone, but this power argument is stupid.
I think that holds the record for the most silly posts I've ever seen on the internet. THEY SELL 5 YEAR CONTRACTSHow is the power argument irrelevant. If I sell you a mining contract TODAY 03/07/14 FOR $2 for 1GH/s to run for 5 years... you expect me to 'mine' for you..... FOR 5 YEARS !!!  The fact power costs more than the cost of the GH/s in the one of the cheapest areas in the world with hardware efficiency that isn't out yet (SP30)?! It's not a riddle, it's not complicated. THE POWER WOULD COST MORE THAN $2 FOR 5 YEARS, WAY MORE. That's assuming they get free hardware, a free giant mega mine data center, fee cooling, free staff... come on use your brain... YOU CANNOT UPGRADE! You cannot buy new hardware with old hardware especially if it's less efficient IT'S WORTH LESS RELATIVE TO THE NEW HARDWARE PER GH/s!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! They have 800TH/s lol the second hand market would be a bit flooded right now. The idea that they will go along upgrading to more efficient hardware with a dollar spent today is an absurdly impossible idea. The value of inefficient hardware goes down in relation to new hardware, it's simple. It's just mysterious ponzish payouts with no terms of service, pictures and mixed coins not 'mining' FEED YOUR GREED ! |
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Lots of discussion here. Any cliffs? Has anyone got to a conclusion?
Yes. You cannot sell a GH/s today 03/07/14 for $2 to mine for 5 years with zero running costs. So PB mysterious ponzish payouts, not mining. 'Feed your greed' sounds like the wolf of wall street. It's over $2 per GH/s in electricity alone for 5 years in Washington State one of the cheapest areas in the world on hardware efficiency that isn't out yet. ELECTRICITY ALONE 5 years over 2 DOLLLAAA understand.... The fact no one else seems to have mentioned this is beyond me. There's arguments on their thread about mining profitability. It's a joke. (a non funny one) They're like a giant newbie hoover for the mathematically inept. And I'm still waiting to get shit on Mr PB?! Visitor 73542558 4:06 PM get ready to be shit on 4:06 PM Visitor 73542558 has joined. Visitor Path Direct Traffic Location Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada Browser Firefox 30.0 Platform Windows 7 Device - IP Address 70.64.100.38 Hostname - User Agent Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:30.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/30.0 |
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I'll put money with a trusted escrow. If I come and you're legit the escrow has to spend my money on GHs from your company i.e. I become your customer and additionally I verify to the community with genuine photos. If you don't allow me to come, the result is obvious.  Ball's in your court. This sounds like a fair and interesting deal. We will even cover the escrow fees  Sending you a PM. |
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I stopped mining yesterday, as pseg (the monopoly electric company) has said that my new adjusted rate is $931.00  (I have only been running 4 antminers since the beginning of last month.) Of course you can't argue with the only fucking electric company.... Basically in order to pull those numbers ($25.2 a day), I am spending 0.58 cents a kilawat, or whatever the hell unit it is. As if the $0.25 peak summer timer bullshit wasn't enough of a ripoff..... How they calculate their adjusted costs.... beyond me.  Welcome to NY, biggest rip off state in the US. Just thought i'd share my misery on the forum with you guys, and see if anyone else has dealt with something like this  $0.58 per Kwh ? How can they charge that?! What power stations are they using, mouse wheels ? I thought the UK was bad. |
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Well the community can make their mind up based on what I've posted but its a scam. I'm now 99.9% on that, which is a shame. You're PM to me saying that I'm not a well known member of the community holds no water. I'm just posting the cold hard facts. You might find some people stupid enough to piss their money down the drain but that won't be me. You haven't refuted any of the 3 points I've posted, the thought that I'd come to visit and "sabotage" your operations is frankly hilarious.
No, the thought that you'd come to visit and "sabotage" our operation may be hilarious to you, but to our customers it's not funny in the slightest. This was our PM we sent you: ''Hello there, I've replied in public as I don't want your concerns to be seen to be ignored. I don't consider these to be serious red flags. Our business is legit, If you were a more important member on this forum I might consider letting you visit our mine as you're a junior member you could be anyone, a competitor for all we know. Regards Justin,'' Seeing as you clearly can't understand the explanation in the above post clearly "refuting" your 3 points let me repeat myself. 1. We take security of our mine very seriously. (This is no joke to us). Think about is this way... if you had tens of thousands of pounds worth of mining equipment (some of which is not yours) would you let any stranger you met on a public forum come poking around?!? I THINK NOT! ...well you might be that stupid I do not know. Our customers trust us. Not you. Who are you? We don't know you so you are not invited. Deal with it. Security is one our top priorities and our customers respect us for that. If you believe us being concerned about security makes us a scam... welll... I don't even know what to say. We have had numerous customers come and visit us and we welcome our customers with open arms every time. 2. "your affiliate scheme has ponzi elements to it" I beg you please expand on this random conclusion you seem to have picked out of thin air? How in the world does an affiliate scheme offering 5% compare in any way to a ponzi scheme? If you're as wise as you seem to believe you are you just labelled the whole affiliate marketing industry as one big scam? Well done. And your throw away comment about "A 5% margin in a cloud mining operation is a huge amount to lose" just shows how much you know. How do you know how tight our margins are? Oh right you seem to know EVERYTHING. 3. That address is our registered company address. Our postal address. It is a virtual address. When setting up Group Bitcoin we did not have a business address and our formation company offered this option. Cloud Hashing use the same virtual office address (along with thousands of other businesses) does this make them a scam? We keep that address for mail forwarding purposes. I am sorry if this response comes across as rude, but being called a scam when we have put in endless days, nights, weeks and months of hard tiresome work to bring a service to UK customers which did not exist before us is simply heartbreaking. We understand the bitcoin industry is rife with scams left right and centre but we have tried our best to be as honest and transparent with everyone. You only have to look around to see why our customers trust us above our competitors. I mean you try and go visit PBmining even as a customer? Try and find pictures of their mine?
At the end of the day coming to the conclusion that we are a scam based on your points above is hilarious (in a non-funny way)In reply to your big red addition to your previous post: WE ARE 100% SURE YOU ARE A TROLL!Who have we scammed? You're not a customer you have nothing to do with our service, what evidence are you basing your bold statement on? We've been going since last year with a few hundred happy customers worldwide and not a single bad review? You Sir are a troll. |
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Just to say I was asked by some members (including OP) about red flags. Well firstly (1) the fact that you say you welcome visitors but don't give an address and now say ''near London'', that's not particularly transparent and is the first red flag when we've seen so many dodgy cloud mining scams. Frankly I would be willing to come visit to verify for the community as I'm sure would many people. In fact I'm in London on Saturday... It shouldn't be just for huge customers. (2) In addition your affiliate scheme has ponzi elements to it. The % rates of the affiliate scheme are very good and in my honest opinion seem too high to be legitimate. A 5% margin in a cloud mining operation is a huge amount to lose to affiliates and either suggests the value you're providing for potential clients is not particularly competitive or alternatively that you're not legitimate. Additionally the fact that you offer effectively a 50% discount to affiliates on cloud mining i.e. spending affiliate money on products again has a lot in common with normal ponzi schemes. (3) I checked out your company registration. The results given were as follows... Name & Registered Office: GB WORLD LTD 145-157 ST JOHN STREET LONDON ENGLAND EC1V 4PW Company No. 08826900 So it appears on first glance that you do have a legitimate address, but then I googled the address and came up with http://www.londonpresence.com/mail-forwarding/ and on their contact page it has the same address, which suggests your company is registered with a fake address. If you were a legitimate business then you would register at your own address surely? Indeed the same address has been used for illegitimate purposes in the past as can be seen here http://www.scamwarners.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=18848I'm not making any accusations but the more time I spend looking (briefly) at your company, the more sceptical I have become and the more flags appear. Thanks for telling us what these 'red flags' are. Yes lots of Cloud Mining companies are fraudulent but If you take some time to research our business you can clearly see we're not. Firstly we started last year, we have a few hundred happy customers in 68 countries that trust us with their investments, from their own hardware to cloud mining contracts. We would never let anyone anywhere near their hardware or our mine that wasn't directly involved, an existing loyal customer with 2 forms of government issued ID. As I'm sure you know mining hardware is valuable, only allowing loyal customers to come and visit adds another level of security to our business as people are less likely to jeopardize their own interests. Secondly almost every company involved in Bitcoin and the Internet for that matter offers some kind of affiliate program from cex.io to gambling sites this does not imply a Ponzi scheme by any means and this is the first time I've heard that. We would rather give customers the money we have to spend on things like Google Adwords. 5% is based upon average conversion rates from the equivalent advertising spend. The formations company we used for our Ltd Company uses that address, you will see this address for hundreds of companies in the UK including Cloud Hashing. We wouldn't use our mine address for the Ltd company as we want to keep the location of the mine private, as mentioned. These red flags are a complete non issue in our opinion. Compared to companies with no pictures, no phone number, company details, terms of service and contracts that clearly don't cover the costs of the electricity alone for the duration of the contract. Regards, For more information please read our 'about' page - http://www.groupbitcoin.com/pages/about-us |
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Where abouts are you located?
The Mine is in the UK near London the address is private for security but Pre paid Colocation customers can come and visit and members with over 1TH/s on cloud mining can too. |
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Update S3 sales news The First Batch of AntMiner S3 runs out of stock. we are ready to start to sell the Second Batch of S3 at 22:00 pm on July 1st, and drop the sales price to 0.74 BTC each with international shipping. The Second Batch is estimated to be delivered about 2-4 days after shipping of the First Batch of S3 for 0.75 BTC each, but still no later than July 20th. That's great news, 22:00pm what time zone thanks ? |
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PBMining discovered a user that was using a keylogger to steal his refferals accounts. They frozen his account and said they will gladly give the informations about the hacker to law enforcements. If they would run a ponzi wouldn't they expose themselves and make them so easy to find after they decide tu pull the plug?
Seemed like marketing to me, very fake. They also quickly changed the subject on their thread when I mentioned the fact 5 years electricity ALONE for 1GH/s is over $2 in one of the cheapest areas in the world with hardware efficiency that isn't out yet. They charge $2.... Has no one else worked that out ? |
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Whatever man. Antminers are 350 watts for like 180gh. And a SP30 is going to be 6th for 2600 watts. Sort of a huge difference there. The difficulty makes it so that the guy earning .0000001 every week can be pooled together with thousands of other old contracts and put on a single miner that is modern and earning more than they need.
What you don't understand is they can't afford to buy SP30s, unless they're using new customers funds to buy mining equipment for old customers. Their continued operation requires new customers, or they will fail. That's a ponzi. Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh that's so nice to hear thanks ! Why can't anyone understand that. You can't sell S1's to buy future hardware as a business model it's impossible. IT GOES DOWN IN VALUE. |
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I'll probably regret this, but I'm gonna jump in to this fray and say a couple of hopefully cogent things.
First, to all of you making your calculations, I have to challenge what appears to be an axiom to all of you: That pbmining is ONLY mining with the hardware they are leasing out. It may be true, but I highly doubt it.
Think about this: They sell ONE HALF of the hashrate they purchase, and they continue to do so. This would indeed cover both expansion and electric costs.
Here's more. As some of you keep saying, the coins come from 'somewhere unknown' rather than a specific mining address. I can tell you from direct personal experience that low grade equipment is still damn profitable if it's mining something other than bitcoin. Now, with the way they are set up, are you sure all of your hash is mining BTC directly? I'm not. It's a hell of a way to recycle obsolete equipment!
And there is yet another thing that gets constantly ignored not only in this theread, but for the most part in the whole bitcoin ecosphere. I find this shocking, actually, but it's true. There is no reason why a company cannot buy land with running water and generate their own power!!!! Among other ways to keep old equipment mining.
I think pbmining has proven themselves quite adequately. I could be wrong of course, but I don't think I am.
You'd need to buy Niagara Falls to power 800TH/s. |
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They're selling it now though, so that's completely pointless comment. It's not pointless at all actually. There is nothing on our web site to say that the customer will be mining with the same hardware for 5 years. You quoted the first sentence... If someone sold cloud mining on that Avalon machine a year ago they had to buy it in the first place now it's not worth anything in relation to some new hardware like a Terraminer so no money to upgrade that hardware. If there was more efficient hardware in the future that has no relation to selling a GH/s now 27/06/14. Even if they bought the new future hardware it wouldn't be free would it? and the hardware isn't free to buy now is it? A 800TH/s data center isn't free either. Hardware goes down in value rapidly meaning there's nothing to pay for the new hardware. At 0.5w/GH/s efficiency it's over $2 for 5 years for 1GH/s this efficiency doesn't exist yet it's much more. Electricity alone for your contract in one of the cheapest areas in the world, on efficiency that doesn't exist yet is over you cost per GH/s You are very limited in your point of view. Maybe (and I say maybe because I don't know how this business model work) they buy hardware for x and sell it for y resulting a profit of y-x=z. The z doesn't all go into profit but a part goes in reinestments, a fund for future upgrades and future expansion, because, as a business you have to think of this parts. You just assume that they all take as profit but I'm know for shure it doesn't work like that, because I have a business (not btc related) but the principles apply also. 'your view is very limited' Your understanding of mining is obviously limited the product x uses electricity....... Electricity alone for the 5 year contract in one of the cheapest areas in the world, on efficiency that doesn't exist yet is over the cost per GH/s at $2 No, not only your view is very limited, you are as a person (this is for beying a smart ass) ) It uses x electricity now, it will not use x electricity in the future. Anyway, you don't have any understanding how how a business work. If you use just math like you are doying, well let's say if you put 10 dollars somewhere ( like in your wallet) it's imposibble to have in a year $11 or $9, you will have $10 exactly. But if you use economics and if you put $10 somewhere (like in a business, or a fund) in a year is very probable you will have $100 or $0.1. Anyway, it's preaty clear you have no ideea how a business work and you just assume 1+1 always equals 2. If this would be the case it would be impossible for a business to grow if you invested $100, because math forbide it, but it's not like that. Math is running the computer you just wrote your silly comment on. It's quite well respected and it clearly shows. Electricity alone for your contract in one of the cheapest areas in the world, on efficiency that doesn't exist yet is over your cost per GH/s at $2. I just had someone from Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada say I'm going to get 'shit on' thanks pb... no terms of service, mixed coins, no pictures, less than the cost of electricity for the term. Facts not Fud. I am not saying PB is legit, they could very well be a ponzi, I really don't know. I just pointed out the flaws in your logic. A business could be run and turn a profit by their model. If they do it or not, that's for everyone to decide for themselvs. I'm sorry but it simply can't run that method at all. Grab a calculator and take 10 mins to work out electricity consumption alone on 0.5w per GH/s efficiency which isn't even out yet. Hardware goes DOWN in value, steeply! You cannot use old hardware to buy new hardware as a model that is utterly impossible. sp30 model 0.4-0.5 watts per ghs. Is that out yet, have you got one, has anyone. No ? ''Grab a calculator and take 10 mins to work out electricity consumption alone on 0.5w per GH/s efficiency which isn't even out yet.'' |
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They're selling it now though, so that's completely pointless comment. It's not pointless at all actually. There is nothing on our web site to say that the customer will be mining with the same hardware for 5 years. You quoted the first sentence... If someone sold cloud mining on that Avalon machine a year ago they had to buy it in the first place now it's not worth anything in relation to some new hardware like a Terraminer so no money to upgrade that hardware. If there was more efficient hardware in the future that has no relation to selling a GH/s now 27/06/14. Even if they bought the new future hardware it wouldn't be free would it? and the hardware isn't free to buy now is it? A 800TH/s data center isn't free either. Hardware goes down in value rapidly meaning there's nothing to pay for the new hardware. At 0.5w/GH/s efficiency it's over $2 for 5 years for 1GH/s this efficiency doesn't exist yet it's much more. Electricity alone for your contract in one of the cheapest areas in the world, on efficiency that doesn't exist yet is over you cost per GH/s You are very limited in your point of view. Maybe (and I say maybe because I don't know how this business model work) they buy hardware for x and sell it for y resulting a profit of y-x=z. The z doesn't all go into profit but a part goes in reinestments, a fund for future upgrades and future expansion, because, as a business you have to think of this parts. You just assume that they all take as profit but I'm know for shure it doesn't work like that, because I have a business (not btc related) but the principles apply also. 'your view is very limited' Your understanding of mining is obviously limited the product x uses electricity....... Electricity alone for the 5 year contract in one of the cheapest areas in the world, on efficiency that doesn't exist yet is over the cost per GH/s at $2 No, not only your view is very limited, you are as a person (this is for beying a smart ass) ) It uses x electricity now, it will not use x electricity in the future. Anyway, you don't have any understanding how how a business work. If you use just math like you are doying, well let's say if you put 10 dollars somewhere ( like in your wallet) it's imposibble to have in a year $11 or $9, you will have $10 exactly. But if you use economics and if you put $10 somewhere (like in a business, or a fund) in a year is very probable you will have $100 or $0.1. Anyway, it's preaty clear you have no ideea how a business work and you just assume 1+1 always equals 2. If this would be the case it would be impossible for a business to grow if you invested $100, because math forbide it, but it's not like that. Math is running the computer you just wrote your silly comment on. It's quite well respected and it clearly shows. Electricity alone for your contract in one of the cheapest areas in the world, on efficiency that doesn't exist yet is over your cost per GH/s at $2. I just had someone from Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada say I'm going to get 'shit on' thanks pb... no terms of service, mixed coins, no pictures, less than the cost of electricity for the term. Facts not Fud. I am not saying PB is legit, they could very well be a ponzi, I really don't know. I just pointed out the flaws in your logic. A business could be run and turn a profit by their model. If they do it or not, that's for everyone to decide for themselvs. I'm sorry but it simply can't run that method at all. Grab a calculator and take 10 mins to work out electricity consumption alone on 0.5w per GH/s efficiency which isn't even out yet. Hardware goes DOWN in value, steeply! You cannot use old hardware to buy new hardware as a model that is utterly impossible. |
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