Bitcoin Forum
May 04, 2016, 01:57:14 AM *
News: New! Latest stable version of Bitcoin Core: 0.12.1 [Torrent]
 
  Home Help Search Donate Login Register  
  Show Posts
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 [33] 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 ... 930 »
641  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Satoshi Nakamoto: "Bitcoin can scale larger than the Visa Network" on: March 09, 2016, 10:29:56 PM

Why does segregated witness change the tx fee calculation?

My guess: To incentivize users to upgrade into segwit.
That is the carrot, and the raising fees of regular txs, the stick.

This is called discount, eg for the same work (1KB transactions) miners are supposed to get less in fees if it is SegWit transaction within Bitcoin Core.

Fortunatelly miners are free to set their fee policy and hopefully there will be full node client available requiring for the same work (1KB transactions) the same fees whether it is normal or SegWit transaction (if soft fork SegWit gets activated which is uncertain).


Afaik Classic has no plans to adopt SegWit. Is this correct? Just how malleable are transactions, exactly?

its part of their road map

when core has it ready they will adopt it.

thats the plan anyway.
642  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: March 09, 2016, 10:26:31 PM
...
my willingness to buy ALL the bitcoin is no illusion!

People were paying stupid money for Beanies, too. Until they weren't.
And just think about it: imagine you bought all the bitcoins. Why in the world would somebody want one? To make you rich? Cheesy

they would want one so they could save 50% off starbuck gift card?
643  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: March 09, 2016, 10:02:11 PM
...
unlike fiat, there is NO "illusion" that needs to take place.
Other than the one about 1/21millionth of nothing being worth money, because ...well, there's only 21 million of it, you mean?
the 21million coin limit is not an illusion.

No. But 1BTC (1/21millionth of nothing) somehow being worth something (possibly due to the limited supply?) is.

my willingness to buy ALL the bitcoin is no illusion!
644  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Satisfaction rating - Bitcoin Core Developers on: March 09, 2016, 09:56:25 PM
there should be a 51% option.
645  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Satisfaction rating - Bitcoin Core Developers on: March 09, 2016, 09:55:31 PM
i count Lauda + 5 sock puppets

we'll be fine...



Certainly. Please stop with this foolishness. I do not vote in such polls (I have rarely done so in the past).

 Cheesy

sorry.

you should vote, its fun!
646  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: March 09, 2016, 09:52:42 PM
...
unlike fiat, there is NO "illusion" that needs to take place.
Other than the one about 1/21millionth of nothing being worth money, because ...well, there's only 21 million of it, you mean?
the 21million coin limit is not an illusion.

neither are my bids
647  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Satisfaction rating - Bitcoin Core Developers on: March 09, 2016, 09:46:19 PM
-snip-
we'll be fine...

Was that ever a question? I will be looking forward to the comments.

 100% - 6 (20.7%)

i count Lauda + 5 sock puppets

we'll be fine...
648  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: March 09, 2016, 09:25:36 PM
"The bitcoin magic is losing its Midas touch"

http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/12e155dc-e5e4-11e5-a09b-1f8b0d268c39.html#axzz42RUXb7gx

"As bitcoin has become more successful, it has also become potentially more lucrative. Ideology is giving way to fights over who gets what. And it turns out that libertarians are not very good at figuring out how to resolve these political clashes.

As these fights become more publicly visible, they will hurt bitcoin outside its core base of enthusiasts. The advocates of bitcoin got one thing absolutely right. Money is a confidence trick, a form of “frozen desire”, as the writer James Buchan describes it. We only believe in it because everyone else believes in it. So if bitcoin believers believed hard enough, and convinced other people to believe, they had a shot at making it generally accepted.

That is now going to be far harder. The apparent value of bitcoin depends on a suspension of disbelief. It is hard to see how the illusion can work when the magicians are punching each other out on stage."

unlike fiat, there is NO "illusion" that needs to take place.

we have sound cryptographic principles securing our paper wallets

let the fighting continue!

we'll be fine...
649  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Satoshi Nakamoto: "Bitcoin can scale larger than the Visa Network" on: March 09, 2016, 09:10:47 PM
Naively increasing the block size isn't the be all answer.  Sure, when the workload (mempool) is just a bunch of classic small transactions with few inputs then it's great for low fees.  But when a transaction comes along with a huge number of inputs (innocent or malevolent) it will clog up the works forcing everyone to perform a long computation to verify it.  One of these monsters can ruin your day if the calculation takes a significantly longer than 1 block interval.  Or does it?  So, we're behind for a little while but then we catch up.  Or are we saying they are monsters out there that could take hours or even days to verify?
we can't allow any transactions whether or not they are innocent or malevolent to clog up the network. there's no debating this.

Is there a tendency over time for transactions to become bushier?  When the exchange rate is much larger than the Bitcoin amounts in transaction will tend to be smaller.  Does this lead to fragmentation?
yes i believe this is the case, one day, the coins will be way too fragmented.

some kind of "defragmention" will need to take place at one point.

i dont blieve this is a problem for us to worry about... its to far in the future. ( i'm guessing , i do a lot of guesswork )
650  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Satoshi Nakamoto: "Bitcoin can scale larger than the Visa Network" on: March 09, 2016, 09:01:11 PM
Imagine this; you agree to sell something to someone and they will pay you in Bitcoins.  It turns out they have an address with a zillion little outputs in it.  So, they go to launch a send to you and find the fee is going to be huge (to cover the cost of all those inputs in a timely fashion).  The deal falls through; Bitcoin loses.

Now we can wonder how their address ended up so fragmented but what does it matter?  Maybe they were collecting a zillion little drips from faucets.  Whatever; they can't spent it like a large output.
the needs the of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the spammer.
the TX inquestion comes from a "stress test", someone wanted to see how much SPAM bitcoin could swallow at once.
if the TX size was made to be >1MB what would've happened then?
finding a good limit shouldn't be very hard.


Set an arbitrary limit which is way above what we need right now, but closes the attack vector.
agreed.
651  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: March 09, 2016, 08:46:07 PM
Blocks full = 130mb+ per day (theoretical max 144mb).

look at the mem pool Alex, the answers you seek are in the mem pool.

The mempool will continue to have backlogs even with 10mb or 1gb blocks, if there is zero or near-zero cost to broadcast gigabytes of txs.

If miners are clearing them out by including them into the blocks => blockchain bloat.
If they don't => mempool bloat (much better and controlled situation compared to blockchain bloat).
i give up

you keep believing that on avg blocks are only 50-75% full

This is not a religious issue to involve "beliefs".



All blocks added today and yesterday (including the 1mb one that got orphaned on 401626), divided by their count.

Block data from:

https://blockchain.info/blocks/1457468990441 March 8 - avg 682kb
https://blockchain.info/blocks/1457555390441 March 9 - avg 766kb


0.21KB blocks in there... did the mem pool backlog get cleared for a second?
652  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Satoshi Nakamoto: "Bitcoin can scale larger than the Visa Network" on: March 09, 2016, 08:31:11 PM
Luada, again we owe you a debt of gratitude.  You do the work the rest of us are too lazy to do.  Now I am beginning to understand why the verification process scales quadratic; not that me understanding matters per se but it is nice to know.
Example of such transaction a can be seen here (from last year).
Holy cow!
now does this constitute a legitimate TX?

can't we just ignore this type of TX?
Depends; sorry.  In a sense it is absolutely legit; it follows all of the rules.  But it easily could have been coded less abusively.

Let's first look at a much more classic transaction https://blockchain.info/tx/3a6a7d2456bfd6816ee1164e7c11307fa1c6855ee3116b6a1f8e6a14a98b04c4;

address (amount)
12kDK8snhBD6waJ2NaMB7QvSf4DzMcE9ad (0.21963496 BTC - Output) {call it what you want; this is an input}

1FmUPrnZTBymMT3ktgMx61hQ3JRyWD7NPY - (Unspent) 0.14193496 BTC
13dhrUuUe2MrZsufYGAZnwnyE7k97FRZ1v - (Unspent) 0.0776 BTC

Nice and easy; one input, two outputs; classic.

Now compare that to the big one;

19MxhZPumMt9ntfszzCTPmWNQeh6j6QqP2 (Brainwallet - dog) (0.00001 BTC - Output)
19MxhZPumMt9ntfszzCTPmWNQeh6j6QqP2 (Brainwallet - dog) (0.00001 BTC - Output)
...
19MxhZPumMt9ntfszzCTPmWNQeh6j6QqP2 (Brainwallet - dog) (0.00001 BTC - Output) {this is the 1598 occurrence}
...
{followed by zillions of more inputs}

This could have been codes as;

19MxhZPumMt9ntfszzCTPmWNQeh6j6QqP2 (Brainwallet - dog) (0.01598 BTC - Output)
...

and saved 1597 inputs on this batch of inputs alone.  Ok, sure, we could ignore this one; um, need to figure out how to recognize such without rejecting non-abusive transactions.

that is the key

i say keep it simple stupid

if it has more than a zillion it's not getting included.
653  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: March 09, 2016, 08:27:48 PM
Blocks full = 130mb+ per day (theoretical max 144mb).

look at the mem pool Alex, the answers you seek are in the mem pool.

The mempool will continue to have backlogs even with 10mb or 1gb blocks, if there is zero or near-zero cost to broadcast gigabytes of txs.

If miners are clearing them out by including them into the blocks => blockchain bloat.
If they don't => mempool bloat (much better and controlled situation compared to blockchain bloat).
i give up

you keep believing that on avg blocks are only 50-75% full
654  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: March 09, 2016, 08:21:56 PM
wow biggest block i have ever seen 999.91KB

there 215$ if fees in this block
 a few tx have a fee >2$



oh look i found happen to see an even bigger block today 999.92KB


WOOT i see a 999.98KB block  Grin

top that you core devs, HA in your face.
655  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: March 09, 2016, 08:17:14 PM
if alex throws a grenade at you, pull the pin out and throw it back.
656  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: March 09, 2016, 08:16:27 PM
Blocks full = 130mb+ per day (theoretical max 144mb).

look at the mem pool Alex, the answers you seek are in the mem pool.
657  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Satoshi Nakamoto: "Bitcoin can scale larger than the Visa Network" on: March 09, 2016, 07:55:38 PM
Luada, again we owe you a debt of gratitude.  You do the work the rest of us are too lazy to do.  Now I am beginning to understand why the verification process scales quadratic; not that me understanding matters per se but it is nice to know.
Example of such transaction a can be seen here (from last year).
Holy cow!
now does this constitute a legitimate TX?

can't we just ignore this type of TX?
658  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Satoshi Nakamoto: "Bitcoin can scale larger than the Visa Network" on: March 09, 2016, 07:53:56 PM
what are the implications of this "quadratic TX validation" you guys are talking about?

we can't have TX with a huge amount of inputs? or somthing?
Exactly.  If/when a transaction comes in with zillions of inputs then everyone verifying it will be subjected to a long computation.

zillions of inputs!  Grin this i can understand
659  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Satoshi Nakamoto: "Bitcoin can scale larger than the Visa Network" on: March 09, 2016, 07:44:05 PM
what are the implications of this "quadratic TX validation" you guys are talking about?

we can't have TX with a huge amount of inputs? or somthing?
660  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Satisfaction rating - Bitcoin Core Developers on: March 09, 2016, 07:41:21 PM
HA most vote are either 100% or less than 10%

silly sock puppets you supposed to all vote for the same thing.

Equal oportunity sock puppeting?

here we go CIYAM calling everyone stupid all day again.

The vote was called stupid and I agree with CIYAM. There will be nothing learned from the results because we cant know whether a single person voted 10 times.

the votes are not cryptographically verified? O_o!

Great, you are aware of the flaw, why defend the poll then? Its not like votes based on signed messages and btc balance are not implemented.

every time someone makes a poll we get a dumbass saying the poll is meaningless.

who cares this is a internet forum, not and election.

we'll be fine...
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 [33] 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 ... 930 »
Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!