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May 28, 2016, 05:53:31 AM *
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641  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: ToominCoin aka "Bitcoin_Classic" #R3KT on: March 25, 2016, 11:36:54 PM
you guys got me.

its completely insane to think bitcoin could operate without having the majority of nodes ran by individuals.

clearly what we have now is a very decentralized system

and we need to keep it just the way it is.

This is not about restricting nodes to any particular subset of society but achieving robustness through diversity and diffusion of power.

Continue to educate yourself, maybe one day you'll get it.

have you given up on your 1MB forever stance?

It's not up to me and quite the opposite I'm increasingly comfortable leaving the block size alone for the near future absent some undeniable consensus on how to move forward.

Segwit, payment channels are coming, lightning later on. Bitcoin is thriving why the fuck would you want to mess with it.

you get segwit means ~2X more bandwidth requirements on nodes right?

you're comfortable with that?
642  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: ToominCoin aka "Bitcoin_Classic" #R3KT on: March 25, 2016, 11:30:23 PM
...
This is not about restricting nodes to any particular subset of society but achieving robustness through diversity ...
Diversity?


 Cheesy
643  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: ToominCoin aka "Bitcoin_Classic" #R3KT on: March 25, 2016, 11:27:09 PM
you guys got me.

its completely insane to think bitcoin could operate without having the majority of nodes ran by individuals.

clearly what we have now is a very decentralized system

and we need to keep it just the way it is.

This is not about restricting nodes to any particular subset of society but achieving robustness through diversity and diffusion of power.

Continue to educate yourself, maybe one day you'll get it.

have you given up on your 1MB forever stance?
644  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Coinbase CEO: Core Team is a "Systemic Threat" on: March 25, 2016, 11:00:47 PM
This Coinbase guy, Armstrong is becoming a real pain in the ass & a genuine threat to the future of bitcoin.

which future?

Decentralized future, the future of proper devs at Core & Blockstream. Armstrong can't be trusted, he is in bed with government officials & doesn't give a shit about the fundamentals of bitcoin.
dont worry Armstrong is just 1 person, he can kick and scream all he wants as long as the majority disagree with him its going to be fine.

it must suck having to comply with US law. not sure obeying the law to the letter = in bed with government officials... probably means he doesn't want to get fucked by government officials.

645  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Coinbase CEO: Core Team is a "Systemic Threat" on: March 25, 2016, 10:48:16 PM
This Coinbase guy, Armstrong is becoming a real pain in the ass & a genuine threat to the future of bitcoin.

which future?
646  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: ToominCoin aka "Bitcoin_Classic" #R3KT on: March 25, 2016, 10:09:13 PM
you guys got me.

its completely insane to think bitcoin could operate without having the majority of nodes ran by individuals.

clearly what we have now is a very decentralized system

and we need to keep it just the way it is.
647  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: ToominCoin aka "Bitcoin_Classic" #R3KT on: March 25, 2016, 08:18:45 PM
say what you will soon enough they will see the value in a decentralized global currency and they will make one that suits their needs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGsb39c7KtM

they are getting close!
648  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: ToominCoin aka "Bitcoin_Classic" #R3KT on: March 25, 2016, 07:53:34 PM
are views as to what constitutes a decentralized system differs to much...
Run by various government/institutions/corporations != decentralized coin. That's a "Capital Coin". If you want such a coin, just fork off with the existing support that you have already. Don't try turning Bitcoin into something that it isn't.

in my view its my duty as a bitcoiner to discuss my views on its future. this doesn't necessarily mean agreeing with the status quo. ( if we all just TRUST 1 group of devs to have our best interest in mind, WTF is the point??? )

also... Run by various government/institutions/corporations Can == decentralized

IF there is no central authority

so the peers are tend to be a level above individual poeple. Meh....

beside no one is stopping individuals to invest in a 10,000$ node and participate in this network i am suggesting.

That's a pretty big IF.

Most governments, institutions and corporations are fundamentally centralized. Hence why they each can be regulated.

the canadian government is not subject to the USA government in a centralized manner.

in a sense the systems of governance around the world are decentralized, each operating independently from each other working toward a common goal ( making pencils! )

when the governments meet at the united nations are they there to hear the wishes of a commander and chief and carry out his orders. or do they each act as individuals working ( trying to work ) toward a common goal, each with there own agenda.

So long as there are competing interest who are dependent on a consistent blockchain Bitcoin will remain decentralized.
649  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: ToominCoin aka "Bitcoin_Classic" #R3KT on: March 25, 2016, 07:39:35 PM
blockstream fanboys word of the months
january: doomsday

Um, XT/Classic fanboys been saying doomsday since a year ago. When is the apocalypse of "fee event" coming?

this is a case of racism i mean implementationism  Cheesy
just because some poeple that supported classic or XT said things doesn't mean all the supports said or continue to say the same thing.
it was a silly pressure tactic to win poeple over to XT, we all saw right through it.

sooner or later we will see if bitcoin implodes once blocks are 2MB in size....
650  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: ToominCoin aka "Bitcoin_Classic" #R3KT on: March 25, 2016, 07:30:12 PM
so peers are tend to be 1 level above individual poeple. Meh.... still decentralized IMO.
651  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: ToominCoin aka "Bitcoin_Classic" #R3KT on: March 25, 2016, 07:18:23 PM
are views as to what constitutes a decentralized system differs to much...
Run by various government/institutions/corporations != decentralized coin. That's a "Capital Coin". If you want such a coin, just fork off with the existing support that you have already. Don't try turning Bitcoin into something that it isn't.

in my view its my duty as a bitcoiner to discuss my views on its future. this doesn't necessarily mean agreeing with the status quo. ( if we all just TRUST 1 group of devs to have our best interest in mind, WTF is the point??? )

also... Run by various government/institutions/corporations Can == decentralized

IF there is no central authority

so the peers are tend to be a level above individual poeple. Meh....

beside no one is stopping individuals to invest in a 10,000$ node and participate in this network i am suggesting.
652  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: ToominCoin aka "Bitcoin_Classic" #R3KT on: March 25, 2016, 07:11:58 PM
hard to believe that Core implementing the necessary "fixes" for Blockstream to work ( a for profit company ) isn't guilty of the same thing...
They aren't adding any "fixes" solely for Blockstream. If you think that the Lightning Network is Blockstream's product, then you're wrong.

and 2MB is hardly a rushed impl. the rushed impl was rejected ( 20MB )...
It is being rushed (28 days grace period).

you make it sound so evil... I want Sybil attack to be harder to pull off. and I believe corporations/government/rich will also value decentralization and run their nodes from their own HQ. I see nothing wrong with the cost of running a full node rise so long as nodes remain distributed. I believe the nodes can be representative of end users as well, if it does end up costing 10,000$/ year to run a node i believe bitcoin will be 100-1000X more popular than today, and in that case, its OK for 1000's of people to "group buy" full nodes.
This seems similar to the nonsense that Veritas was spreading. I have no proper words to describe how stupid this is. Bitcoin was always about individual sovereignty, sovereignty which will be lost if you have a system where a node costs $10k. Bitcoin will only remain decentralized as long as running a node costs as little as possible.

are views as to what constitutes a decentralized system differs to much...
653  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: 2MB Pros and Cons on: March 25, 2016, 06:50:58 PM
ok exstasie you need to explain to us, the means by which you believe bitcoin can change its protocol rules

Overwhelming community consensus. See 2013 hard fork for reference. Much of the community clearly rejects these attempts to change the consensus rules at the present time.

i was told 51% of hashing power was all that was really NEEDED.

That's all that is needed for a majority miner attack. That's all that's needed for miners to add restrictions to the protocol (soft fork) -- with or without community input (ie we have no power over that).

But 51% hashing power has nothing to do with forcing node operators to uninstall their software and install some incompatible software. If you remove consensus rules, that is what must happen. Otherwise those nodes will ignore the new network.

i think this is not what the white paper seemed to indicate. ( " bitcoin is whatever the longest chain happens to be " or somthing to that effect )

altho i must agree with your assessment as a better description of what it takes to change the rules.

i simply believe >75% hashing power = Overwhelming community consensus ( clearly node count isn't a good gauge as we see with classic nodes its more representative of economy marjory then anything else )

and its not fair to say that pools command to much hashing power they are known to let their user base vote individuality ( altho they do seem to reserve the right to vote on the behalf of non-voters )

i think a lot of the problem comes from the idea that individuals have a say, they dont. if we have 10 loud poeple on bitcointalk.org pushing for 1MB blocks forever, this should have no bearing on gauging " community consensus ", this is mearly political white noise.
654  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: 2MB Pros and Cons on: March 25, 2016, 06:42:58 PM

Of course I've verified them. In this case, adam deleted his post after he was called out on it. Icebreaker has quoted some great posts from frapdoc et al, feel free to peruse them; this is not an issue for me, I'm not going to waste time to search through post histories. Consider the point moot, since it was directed at adam, not you.

what post did i delete? are you talking about another adam?
655  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: 2MB Pros and Cons on: March 25, 2016, 06:37:34 PM
ok exstasie you need to explain to us, the means by which you believe bitcoin can change its protocol rules

i was told 51% of hashing power was all that was really NEEDED.

75% trigger + 90% activation is merely a "polite" way of doing it AFAI
656  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: ToominCoin aka "Bitcoin_Classic" #R3KT on: March 25, 2016, 05:07:08 PM
We already have mainstream/datacenter coin. It's called paypal.





i want a crypto decentralized amongst  gov/company/bank/universities/etc.

not a centralized system controlled by 1 company
paypal doesn't allow me to generate my own account to which they dont have and never will have the private keys too.
paypal doesn't have to have 1000 other companies and participants agree with it when it wants to make a change to its protocol.


you see the dif?

I am an extremist when it comes to "blocksize"
I see the model for global governance emerge from this technology.
the decentralization of world domination!
muahahahahha!



becoming a peer on this network is going to be anything but Cheap!

on second thought it might be Cheap like dirt relatively speaking... 1/10thmillion sounds cheap like dirt for what i'm suggesting wouldn't you say?
657  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: ToominCoin aka "Bitcoin_Classic" #R3KT on: March 25, 2016, 03:53:17 PM
I like the irony. XT and Classic supporters claim their plans won't lead to datacenter model for nodes. But before they even manage to fork the network.... they already run all their nodes through datacenters. Cheesy

you can whine and bitch all you want about how "centralized" datacenter coin will be.
no one will believe you because they KNOW that each gov/company/bank/universities globally run their nodes independently  
bitcoin will not be able to compete, the allure of max decentralization will be meaningless VS the power that backs mainstreamcoin
i do not believe this is avoidable, if its not bitcoin that becomes the mainstream coin it will be made to compete with it.

CheapNodeCoin Vs MainstreamCoin

grab your popcorn!
658  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: ToominCoin aka "Bitcoin_Classic" #R3KT on: March 25, 2016, 03:33:45 PM
anyone who wants to win is greedy?
Anyone who wants to rush temporary 'fixes' that would enable more people to join the system is most likely led by greed.
hard to believe that Core implementing the necessary "fixes" for Blockstream to work ( a for profit company ) isn't guilty of the same thing...

and 2MB is hardly a rushed impl. the rushed impl was rejected ( 20MB )...

also is there such a thing as too much decentralization for one's own good?
i would argue that yes of course, for example trying to make the world financial settlement layer run on a blueberry pi would be considered too much decentralization for one's own good...
Yes there is. Bitcoin would be most likely worthless if it weren't decentralized. If you want a coin that is run by corporations/government/rich people, then you've come to the wrong place.
you make it sound so evil... I want Sybil attack to be harder to pull off. and I believe corporations/government/rich will also value decentralization and run their nodes from their own HQ. I see nothing wrong with the cost of running a full node rise so long as nodes remain distributed. I believe the nodes can be representative of end users as well, if it does end up costing 10,000$/ year to run a node i believe bitcoin will be 100-1000X more popular than today, and in that case, its OK for 1000's of people to "group buy" full nodes.

SPV clients will always allow end user peers on the network at no cost.


considering the alternatives, everyone uses LN ( not sure why anyone would run a bitcoin node when they use LN... they will run LN nodes...)
now you have -10 incentives to run bitcoin nodes AND they are cheap to run, bacily making Sybil attack much cheaper, and much more valuable.
659  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: ToominCoin aka "Bitcoin_Classic" #R3KT on: March 25, 2016, 03:55:13 AM
 Roll Eyes ToominCoin  is #R3KT?  maybe not....
660  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: ToominCoin aka "Bitcoin_Classic" #R3KT on: March 25, 2016, 03:51:07 AM

why is no one voting god damnit!
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