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1241  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: [ANN] Fast blockchain C++ parser w/ source code on: June 20, 2012, 06:49:10 AM
Sub.
(Forum admins: please install the SMF Bookmark Mod to avoid these noisy "sub" posts.)
1242  Other / CPU/GPU Bitcoin mining hardware / Re: Xeon Phi on: June 19, 2012, 12:49:47 PM
AFAIK Intel targets ~1.5GHz for the Xeon Phi.
So, 50 cores with their 512-bit SIMD instruction set would execute 1200 billion 32-bit instructions per second.
Assuming a core can execute the SHA-256 operations in 1 clock cycle (rotate, shift, add, xor, or, and), and does not have an instruction like BFI_INT to optimize ch() and maj(), then it would take about 4300 clocks to compute a Bitcoin hash.

Given all these assumptions, a Xeon Phi card should mine at roughly 280 Mhash/s, or about as fast as a low end HD 7850. Not impressive.
1243  Other / Off-topic / Re: Dual use ASICs, Mining and Cracking on: June 19, 2012, 11:08:40 AM
pieppiep is right, these graphs (not yours, I get it) should use a logarithmic scale.

The point of a graph is not to wow the audience by showing an impressive exponential curve, it is to document data. Linear scales don't document anything when the data points vary by orders of magnitude.
1244  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Timekoin on: June 19, 2012, 09:20:31 AM
I already gave that link, hover over "knightmb" Smiley
1245  Other / CPU/GPU Bitcoin mining hardware / Re: Xeon Phi on: June 19, 2012, 09:07:43 AM
Its actually 50+ original Pentium cores (think after 486), just shrunk down to 22nm and built with their 3D Trigate design, Not Sandy Bridge at all. I'm sure they've added some extra instructions but still, it's not much more than that.

It is a lot more than that. Xeon Phi implements 512-bit SIMD units, so it can execute 16x more operations per clock than one (non-MMX) Pentium core.
1246  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Timekoin on: June 19, 2012, 09:03:39 AM
http://timekoin.org was created by knightmb:

Quote
Timekoin is the first non-experimental application of an open encrypted electronic  currency system on a public network.

The first concepts of digital currency date back to the late 1980s before the Internet was know as The Internet. Computer enthusiast would communicate with each other via modem dial-up bulletin boards and exchange files and messages. During those times, phone bills were high so online time was limited each day by system operators. Users would trade around "time" as currency in exchange for files or services.

This "time" could be added to another users account so that they may use more "online" time on the bulletin board computer. Because this started to become it's own culture of digital currency of trading time, many bulletin board operators began limiting users ability to trade "time" and eventually lead to business models of giving limited free time and charging users to use more time pass the free time point. Because of the limited nature and expense of running a bulletin board system, the electronic currency concept at the time was given an early death.

30 Years later, things have changed greatly. The Internet now allows anyone in the world with a computer to communicate. This vast open public network gives back the ability to resurrect the concepts of digital currency run by the public. Without any central authority to try to monetize the system and the vast amounts of computer power available to any person, the doors of the public digital currency once again swing open.

See its whitepaper: http://timekoin.org/images/documents/timekoin.pdf
1247  Economy / Auctions / Re: Three half-defective 5970s (starting at 30 BTC) on: June 18, 2012, 07:24:18 AM
You win this auction, MrTeal!
1248  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: What else can our FPGA mining boards be used for? on: June 18, 2012, 06:18:00 AM
From what I read and could collect by looking for information, you need to pay several hundred (thousand?) dollars to get the Xilinx tools and the bitcoin miner bitstreams seems to need 10s of gigabytes or RAM to build. I don't know about others but my hobbies usually start smaller than that...

Xilinx ISE has a free version available. And if you can afford a $400 FPGA board, you can surely spend $80 for 16GB RAM...
1249  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: [ANN] Amazing new device on: June 18, 2012, 04:59:22 AM
What is the joke? The gold chain or the device?
1250  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: [ANN] Amazing new device on: June 18, 2012, 04:38:52 AM
A portable keychain-sized device able to run a Bitcoin client? Interesting.

But I will redescribe here another type of bitcoin wallet which I have talked about in the past, that would have a better form factor:

Quote
Bitcoins could be stored on a smartcard having a flexible e-paper display, flexible built-in keypad, and flexible LiPo battery [1]. Withdrawing coins from the card could require a user typing in an amount and a pin code, and then using a smartphone to scan a QR code shown on the e-paper display (or sliding the card in the merchant's payment terminal, which would scan the QR code). The QR code would represent a signed Bitcoin transaction to a pre-programmed address whose private key sits on some online server, which is only used as an intermediary step before forwarding the coins to the final merchant. The smartcard would effectively never connect to an online device during its entire life, making it un-hackable without having physical access to it. Smartcards could also be manufactured in pairs, or triplets, etc, to have clones of them in order to have redundant backups of the Bitcoins in case of a loss of one of the cards.

One might ask how the smartcard can sign transactions without access to the current blockchain. Well it is mathematically possible, because a transaction just consists of ECC-signing a few bytes representing the destination addresses.

[1] The technology for this already exists. I own one of those Paypal cards: http://gallery.drfaulken.com/d/8752-1/IMG_1466.JPG
1251  Economy / Auctions / Re: Three half-defective 5970s (starting at 30 BTC) on: June 18, 2012, 04:27:19 AM
Payment can wait a few days, I don't mind.
1252  Bitcoin / Hardware / [Archive] BFL trolling museum on: June 18, 2012, 03:56:55 AM
At that port it forks, and everyone who hasn't updated will be on one fork while everyone who has updated will be on the other fork.

What actually happens next ... well that depends on the % of who decides what.

I guess those with asics and the security problem may stay on their risk fork and everyone else will be on the new fork.
Though if asics are most of the network by then and they want to keep the security risk, I guess BTC stays a security risk - bye bye BTC Smiley

If a fork actually occur, I think many people will decide to follow the chain that the leading exchanges (MtGox, etc) will support.
1253  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: What else can our FPGA mining boards be used for? on: June 18, 2012, 03:13:01 AM
gyverlb: the tools are not out of reach to the hobbyist. As a matter of fact, the first FPGA bitstreams (plural) for Bitcoin mining have all been developed by hobbyists on these very forums.
1254  Economy / Auctions / Re: Three half-defective 5970s (starting at 30 BTC) on: June 18, 2012, 01:02:53 AM
zvs: I am pretty sure I read your post saying 50... If I misremember, sorry.

Looks like the cards should go to MrTeal. I will end the auction in a few hours.
1255  Bitcoin / Mining speculation / Re: ASIC = The end of decentralized mining on: June 18, 2012, 12:25:10 AM
However I do agree that Mhash/dollar will be a more interesting metric to watch than Mhash/J. I wonder why you think ASIC will contribute a 1000x improvement in this area (going from $1 per Mh/s to $1 per Gh/s)?

Basing on the square mm and a clock speed of 1 Ghz the raw manufacturing cost would be closer to $0.10 per GH/s.  Now granted you have the NRE, the capital cost, the profit magins, yield losses, salaries, etc but even with 1000% markup <$1 per GH/s would be possible.

One way to look at it is the SHA-256 hasher only took 20kGE.    Lets say scaling it to 1 Ghz required twice as many GE and you want to make it perform a double hash; so 80 kGE. Obviously you wouldn't make a chip that small.  But hashing is perfectly parallel.  Instead of 1 single hashing engine running 1Ghz you could lay down 20 parallel engines.  So that on each clock 20 nonces are calculated simultaneously (20 GH/s @ 1Ghz).  Even that would only be ~ 1.6M GE.  Tiny small by modern chip standards (which have transistor counts in the billions).   The $20 CPU in your smartphone likely has a higher transistor count.

Your assumption that running at a higher frequency is better is wrong. It is better to have many tiny 20kGE SHA-256 units running at a slower clock, than fewer bigger ones, for energy efficiency. But this does not change the conclusion...

I changed my mind. I don't know why I did not run this math myself, but I now agree that a 100x better Mhash/s per dollar than BFL's ASIC announcement is achievable with current tech 40-60nm ASICs.

However, this would be doable only at sufficiently large production volumes. With thousands of wafers, so millions of chips. The question is: will Bitcoin mining chips ever be produced in the millions?
1256  Economy / Computer hardware / Re: [AUCTION] Three half-defective 5970 (current offer: 30 BTC) on: June 17, 2012, 04:48:09 AM
I didn't know about this subforum... I am moving my thread to it and locking this one.
1257  Economy / Auctions / Three half-defective 5970s (starting at 30 BTC) on: June 17, 2012, 04:47:15 AM
(Moving my auction thread from https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=87506.0 to here...)

I am auctioning a set of 3 x HD 5970 which are half defective and out of warranty!

One mines fine for a few hours, then hangs.
One fails to initialize during POST (it is not seen by lspci), other times a reboot fixes it.
One causes kernel hangs as soon as Xorg starts.

Auction started at 30 BTC for the lot (bid by zvs from this thread.) I pay for shipping, and will ship anywhere in the US.
Auction ends Sunday, June 17, some time in the evening - pacific time.
1258  Economy / Computer hardware / Re: [AUCTION] Three half-defective 5970 (current offer: 30 BTC) on: June 17, 2012, 02:55:02 AM
Are you nullifying his bid for cheating, or does 30/50 stay as the high bid?

The high bid is his, at 30 BTC.
1259  Economy / Computer hardware / Re: [AUCTION] Three half-defective 5970, starting at 5 BTC for all on: June 17, 2012, 02:39:00 AM
30

Dude, you cheated! You had offered 50 BTC and then edited you post to 30 BTC :-)
I will extend the auction until Sunday evening, pacific time...
1260  Bitcoin / Mining speculation / Re: ASIC = The end of decentralized mining on: June 16, 2012, 10:27:52 AM
Its rather the opposite. The fact they intend to launch at 10x better MH/$, while they could easily charge 5 or even 10x more considering the power efficiency gains, shows what kind of tectonic shift this really represents.

You keep trying to make it sound like ASICs are different, but 10x better Mhash/s/$ has already been seen in the past: when we moved from CPU to GPU mining.

 I expected something much close to FPGA prices initially. But these prices will only last until price/difficulty catches up, therefore asic sales would dry up, so BFL will slash them over and over until they are >100x lower than today and finally approach somewhere closer to marginal costs which is damn close to zero $ per GH.
That is the 'exponential' leap. Want to take bets that in 24 months, bitcoin difficulty wont be 100x higher than today?

BFL will never be able to slash their prices by 100x because the other assembly/component costs would make up most of the cost. Think about it, if they did, the BitForce SC Single would sell for $12.99. But the case, PCB, fan, power adapter, etc alone cost at least $20-30.

Also, assuming that the capital invested in GPUs by miners (as of today) is fully reinvested in ASIC mining products, it would be sufficient to increase the difficulty by 10x-25x, because ASICs achieve 10x-25x more Mhash/s/$ than GPUs. And I think the invested capital is likely to double in the next 24 months, so difficulty could increase to about 50x. And that's without BFL having to slash their ASIC prices at all. (50x is too close to your 100x, so no I won't take the bet.)

However, I would be ready to bet on the fact that BFL will not slash their prices by more than, say, 30% before June 2014. For once, I expect them to take at least 1 year to develop and ship the first ASIC product.
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