The dividends were much improved this week  Thanks. It is the nature of long-only funds -- bull market makes it perform better. |
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This may be answered somewhere in this thread.
But are you doing the mining here?
How is the ASIC craze going to effect moore.
I own a few shares.. Just wondering.
Thanks for your question. The original plan was to raise the bitcoins of MOORE sales to buy Lancelot FPGAs to expand ( https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=82346.msg940163#msg940163). But the imminent ASICs and the delay of Lancelot ( https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=79835.220) made me suspend the plan. This is also why I reduced the supply, because otherwise I wouldn't be able to support the coupon with our existing hashing power. The arrival of ASIC will make MOORE more valuable because we will empower MOORE with our own ASIC project ( https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=91173.0). Before that, no more MOORE shares will be sold other than the existing open asks on GLBSE and the rest of the batch share sales in the OP. When in a very unfortunate situation where our own ASIC project doesn't work out, I will buy the best ASIC devices on the market. |
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5th Payment
Calculation time: July 11, 03:27:20 forum time
Number of difficulty change: 1
Number of block reward change: 0
Time interval:
Starting from: July 4, 02:37:25
Ending at: July 4, 11:37:21
Total time: 32396s
Difficulty: 1,726,566.56
Starting from: July 4, 11:37:21
Ending at: July 11, 03:27:20
Total time: 575399s
Difficulty: 1,751,454.54
Hashrate of this week: 1.21523MH/s
coupon/share = (1.21523*10^6)/(2^32)*(32396*50/1726566.56+575399*50/1751454.54)=0.0049132
Number of Shares: 8536
Total Payment: 41.9390752
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Weekly Financial Disclosure
Time: 10:07 PM, Beijing time
Date: July 11, 2012
Funds of Last Week: 41.998BTC
Number of Total Shares in Circulation: 5000
Assets:
JLP-BMD
Original: 1569shares 393.819BTC
Bought in: 0shares 0.000BTC
Average Holding Price: 0.251BTC
Sold: 0shares 0.000BTC
Average Selling Price: N/A
Holding: 1569+0-0=1569shares 393.819BTC
Net Gain: 0.000BTC
Dividends Paid: 1.607BTC
YABMC
Original: 1505shares 390.925BTC
Bought in: 0shares 0.000BTC
Average Holding Price: 0.260BTC
Sold: 0shares 0.000BTC
Average Selling Price: N/A
Holding: 1505+0-0=1505shares 390.925BTC
Net Gain: 0.000BTC
Dividends Paid: 6.062BTC
PIMP
Original: 2296shares 453.876BTC
Bought in: 0shares 0.000BTC
Average Holding Price: 0.198BTC
Sold: 1077shares 243.531BTC
Average Selling Price: 0.226BTC
Holding: 2296+0-1077=1219shares 241.362BTC
Net Gain: (0.226-0.198)*1077=30.156BTC
Dividends Paid: 7.335BTC
MOVETO.FUND
Original: 150shares 150.000BTC
Bought in: 0shares 0.000BTC
Average Holding Price: 1.000BTC
Sold: 0shares 0.000BTC
Average Selling Price: N/A
Holding: 150+0-0=150shares 150.000BTC
Net Gain: 0.000BTC
Dividends Paid: 0.000BTC
GIGAMINING
Original: 0shares 0.000BTC
Bought in: 220shares 216.750BTC
Average Holding Price: 0.985BTC
Sold: 220shares 247.500BTC
Average Selling Price: 1.125BTC
Holding: 220+0-220=0shares 0.000BTC
Net Gain: 247.500-216.750=30.750BTC
Dividends Paid: 0.000BTC
Holding Funds=
41.998-0.000+0.000+1.607-0.000+0.000+6.062-0.000+243.531+7.335-0.000+0.000+0.000-216.750+247.500+0.000=331.283BTC
Total Net Gain=
0.000+1.607+0.000+6.062+30.156+7.335+0.000+0.000+30.750+0.000=75.910BTC
Calculated Dividends: 75.910*35%=26.569BTC
Usable Funds: 331.283-26.569=304.714BTC
Actual Dividends: 26.569BTC
NAV: 304.714+1569*0.190+1505*0.169+1219*0.225+150*1.068=1291.644BTC
Weekly NAV Growth: (1291.644-1190.903)/1190.903=8.459%
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I would personally love to see a well documented Bitcoin-specific ASIC that is sold by reel (or in smaller quantities to hobbyists by a retailer). This way there could be many companies developing and offering products from "coffee-warmers" to 4U Terahash-class racks. ASIC performance would this way be available to all at a reasonable cost, and the manufacturer/owner of IPR would get a fair flow of income without the hassles of consumer relations and warranty.
Indeed. This saves most hassle dealing with end-users. We hope the whole Bitcoin economy will soon grow to a level allowing a well-developed chain of mining industry so that we could implement this idea. Thank you very much for your suggestion. |
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The mining bonds have really taken a dive lately. I like only the shares where you get a piece of the company or underlying asset like cognitive.
Indeed. Graduate switching to "growth" assets from "value" ones is our mid- to long-term picture. |
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Weekly Financial Disclosure
Time: 10:44 PM, Beijing time
Date: July 4, 2012
Funds of Last Week: 301.922BTC
Number of Total Shares in Circulation: 5000
Assets:
JLP-BMD
Original: 1569shares 393.819BTC
Bought in: 0shares 0.000BTC
Average Holding Price: 0.251BTC
Sold: 0shares 0.000BTC
Average Selling Price: N/A
Holding: 1569+0-0=1569shares 393.819BTC
Net Gain: 0.000BTC
Dividends Paid: 0.000BTC
YABMC
Original: 1505shares 390.925BTC
Bought in: 0shares 0.000BTC
Average Holding Price: 0.260BTC
Sold: 0shares 0.000BTC
Average Selling Price: N/A
Holding: 1505+0-0=1505shares 390.925BTC
Net Gain: 0.000BTC
Dividends Paid: 6.137BTC
PIMP
Original: 796shares 183.876BTC
Bought in: 1500shares 270.000BTC
Average Holding Price: (183.876+270.000)/(796+1500)=0.198BTC
Sold: 0shares 0.000BTC
Average Selling Price: N/A
Holding: 796+1500-0=2296shares 453.876BTC
Net Gain: 0.000BTC
Dividends Paid: 9.364BTC
MOVETO.FUND
Original: 150shares 150.000BTC
Bought in: 0shares 0.000BTC
Average Holding Price: 1.000BTC
Sold: 0shares 0.000BTC
Average Selling Price: N/A
Holding: 150+0-0=150shares 150.000BTC
Net Gain: 0.000BTC
Dividends Paid: 0.000BTC
Holding Funds=
301.922-0.000+0.000+0.000-0.000+0.000+6.137-270.000+0.000+9.364-0.000+0.000+0.000=47.423BTC
Total Net Gain=
0.000+0.000+0.000+6.137+0.000+9.364+0.000+0.000=15.501BTC
Calculated Dividends: 15.501*35%=5.425BTC
Usable Funds: 47.423-5.425=41.998BTC
Actual Dividends: 5.425BTC
NAV: 41.998+1569*0.185+1505*0.180+2296*0.190+150*1.010=1190.903
Weekly NAV Growth: (1190.903-1183.559)/1183.559=0.621%
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5th Payment
Calculation time: July 4, 02:37:25 forum time
Number of difficulty change: 0
Number of block reward change: 0
Time interval:
Starting from: June 27, 04:57:10
Ending at: July 4, 02:37:25
Total time: 596415s
Difficulty: 1,726,566.56
Hashrate of this week: 1.20451MH/s
coupon/share = (1.20451*10^6)/(2^32)*(596415*50/1726566.56)=0.0048438
Number of Shares: 8397
Total Payment: 40.6733886
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The Bitcoin community would welcome a competing ASIC option to BFL with open arms. If you need proof of this just check out the responses and orders going on in the Enterpoint thread for a product that barely even works. The openbitASIC discussion is another great example of people clamoring for another option. A company that does ASICs right is a company that will win loyal customers. I firmly believe people put up with BFL because the rewards currently outweigh the difficulties. Hell, I even considered purchasing a few Singles myself..
Otherwise, another mining company, regardless of how the hashes are generated, is just another mining company.
Indeed. It is always a better thing for other miners to see direct competition of mining device providers than indirect ones. We are not in a proper position to comment other ASIC vendors or producers though. |
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I think that there is demand for an alternative to BFL because many (myself included) do not like their business practices. If you have a competitive product then I'm sure that somebody would be willing to act as a distributor / retailer to handle the shipping for you (and to earn some money).
The license and permission of selling products to either direct customers or retailers in China are a little more painful to get. But you are right, it should still be taken into account as a possibility. Thanks for your suggestion. |
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Which technology background has 'we'? Did you make a FPGA miner oder other project including bitstream, schematic and pcb Artwork for yourself. Did you make an ASIC before?
"We" the founders are three people at this moment. One of the partner has been working on the hardware section of a general purpose CPU design group. The other one has been working on the software section of a embedded-system-oriented CPU group but is heavily involved in the front-end of hardware design. So we have the ASIC experience, but in different larger projects, and as smaller roles than, say, "they are made by just us". |
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Ok.. so you announce in the custom hardware forum about a product that you may develop that nobody can buy. You instead state that you will mine on the hardware for yourselves and sell some of the hashing power.
Why would you even waste the time to post all this information here? Make a website, post to the mining sub-forum and/or marketplace->services and who cares where the hashes come from. We don't care that it costs $xxx,xxx dollars to manufacture your masks and the ROI when all you are selling is a commodity(hashes).
This is like selling bushels of wheat and telling me how much sun was needed, how much fertilizer was needed and how much gasoline was used to plant, tend and harvest. Just sell me the damn wheat.
Thanks for your reply. It's not a single-sided announcement from us. It's supposed to be a board asking for discussion. We have some plans ourselves but since we haven't got any real Bitcoin community in the physical real world, this forum is a precious place for us to get information. Therefore we are kind of chatty and informal in this thread, and we share the information as long as it's not IP-related or business-secret-related. And thanks to the replies, we realize that we pre-maturely ruled out the possibility of selling chips. Though things are not as feasible as western countries in China to sell tangible products, it's still viable. The custom hardware sub-forum seems indeed to be not he best place to put this thread in. If the mining section is more suitable. Could the moderator move it to there? |
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Hi everyone. Our team has just started a project of mining ASIC design & production. We believe it will be both profitable for us and good for the Bitcoin community if we fully work it out. It is widely believed that the NRE cost of ASIC is very high, while the margin cost of mass ASIC production is very low. However, we happen to be in China, where the NRE cost is much more reasonable (~150k$ for 130nm, ~500k$ for 65nm, furthermore much less if you do a 1/N mask) than most people thought. And we are going to take well advantage of that. Our approach is incremental in all aspects. We will set several milestones and see what will happen if we achieve each of them. The report on each stage will be posted here. In the design stage, including both the front-end and the back-end, we are going to fund ourselves. When we are finally ready to turn our design into real chips, we will seek investments, possibly both inside and outside the Bitcoin world. The first batch of our ASIC will not be an end, and we are going to renew our technology with the evolution of the hardware industry, so we are going to make this project a long-term one. However, this thread is not for investment asking, but merely for discussion and our status report. Open discussions (feel free to add more!)1. Self mining .vs. Selling hashes .vs. Selling hardware 2. Warnings, e.g. what are the typical causes to a failed ASIC manufacturing 3. Approaches to get enough funding for production (To be extended)Status reportsJuly 18We have had our IC design company registered at Shenzhen, China. The name of our company is "bitfountain" We also have signed the confidential contract with the IC manufacturer and got the process library necessary for correct DC synthesis. July 29Front-end work done. Preliminary specification given. August 2More optimization and trade-offs applied. MH/J improved and Watt/mm^2 reduced at the cost of some chip area increase. August 11The pictures of our IC layer are revealed.  (Larger pictures: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=99497.msg1092138#msg1092138) September 22We are in the taping-out process with the foundry. The chip spec and interface made public. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=91173.msg1211518#msg1211518(To be extended) |
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Update
I'm now preparing for a(nother) secret project, which offers a different investment choice. The details will be fully declared soon.
As you might have already found, I am cautious and conservative towards new plans. So I will not make it public until I'm ready to.
What I could assure you, is that if this project succeeds, both μ and MOORE will benefit greatly from it.
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The hash rate per bond is supposed to increase a certain small amount every week.
What he did was "skip ahead" so the hash rate went from 1.03608MH/s per bond to 1.19388MH/s per bond.
This is the equivalent of 17 weeks of increases in the hash rate per bond in only one week!!!
omg.. I need to buy more shares o_O ikr Some of the mining companies will be moving to 20mh/s my guess is friedcat is easing us up to that Well we have been moving already. That's a little different from will be moving to isn't it? And this is why I temporarily reduced the initial offering because I'm limited by my current capability and the uncertainty about the releasing of Lancelot. |
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Update
I'm now preparing for a(nother) secret project, which offers a different investment choice. The details will be fully declared soon.
As you might have already found, I am cautious and conservative towards new plans. So I will not make it public until I'm ready to.
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The Liquid Helium PlanIf a catastrophe comes, we can save ourselves by soaking our body with liquid helium, and wake up in a brighter future. To cope with the panic of mining bonds, I've decided to freeze the entire earth. Now it's already 17 weeks later. You don't feel anything, but it's indeed 17 weeks later. I can feel the soft and cool breeze of the late autumn, can't you?  Anyway our contract has to be accurately executed. So we have no choice but to re-calculate our hashrate from 1.03608 to 1.19388. The similar plan will be launched in the future if similar disaster happens. First launch: 17 weeks, 1.03608MH/s to 1.19388MH/s.
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5th Payment
Calculation time: June 27, 04:57:01 forum time
Number of difficulty change: 1
Number of block reward change: 0
Time interval:
Starting from: June 20, 03:59:43
Ending at: June 20, 16:11:10
Total time: 43887s
Difficulty: 1,583,177.85
Starting from: June 20, 16:11:10
Ending at: June 27, 04:57:10
Total time: 564360s
Difficulty: 1,726,566.56
Hashrate of this week: 1.19388MH/s
coupon/share = (1.19388*10^6)/(2^32)*(43887*50/1583177.85+564360*50/1726566.56)=0.0049283
Number of Shares: 8233
Total Payment: 40.5746939
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Weekly Financial Disclosure
Time: 11:41 PM, Beijing time
Date: June 27, 2012
Funds of Last Week: 355.216BTC
Number of Total Shares in Circulation: 5000
Assets:
JLP-BMD
Original: 1569shares 393.819BTC
Bought in: 0shares 0.000BTC
Average Holding Price: 0.251BTC
Sold: 0shares 0.000BTC
Average Selling Price: N/A
Holding: 1569+0-0=1569shares 393.819BTC
Net Gain: 0.000BTC
Dividends Paid: 2.196BTC
YABMC
Original: 1105shares 314.925BTC
Bought in: 400shares 76.000BTC
Average Holding Price: (314.925+76.000)/(1105+400)=0.260BTC
Sold: 0shares 0.000BTC
Average Selling Price: N/A
Holding: 1105+400-0=1505shares 390.925BTC
Net Gain: 0.000BTC
Dividends Paid: 6.231BTC
PIMP
Original: 796shares 183.876BTC
Bought in: 0shares 0.000BTC
Average Holding Price: 0.231BTC
Sold: 0shares 0.000BTC
Average Selling Price: N/A
Holding: 796+0-0=796shares 183.876BTC
Net Gain: 0.000BTC
Dividends Paid: 3.434BTC
MOVETO.FUND
Original: 150shares 150.000BTC
Bought in: 0shares 0.000BTC
Average Holding Price: 1.000BTC
Sold: 0shares 0.000BTC
Average Selling Price: N/A
Holding: 150+0-0=150shares 150.000BTC
Net Gain: 0.000BTC
Dividends Paid: 0.000BTC
GIGAMINING
Original: 0shares 0.000BTC
Bought in: 200shares 180.806BTC
Average Holding Price: (0.000+180.806)/(0+200)=0.904BTC
Sold: 200shares 198.800BTC
Average Selling Price: 0.994BTC
Holding: 0+220-220=0shares 0.000BTC
Net Gain: 198.800-180.806=17.994BTC
Dividends Paid: 5.126BTC
Holding Funds=
355.216-0.000+0.000+2.196-76.000+0.000+6.231-0.000+0.000+3.434-0.000+0.000+0.000-180.806+198.800+5.126=314.197BTC
Total Net Gain=
0.000+2.196+0.000+6.231+0.000+3.434+0.000+0.000+17.994+5.216=35.071BTC
Calculated Dividends: 35.071*35%=12.275BTC
Usable Funds: 314.197-12.275=301.922BTC
Actual Dividends: 12.275BTC
NAV: 301.922+1569*0.203+1505*0.176+796*0.200+150*0.927=1183.559BTC
Weekly NAV Growth: (1183.559-1196.226)/1196.226=-1.059%
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The key is to invest in mining companies, not bonds. Isn't it obvious that the value of 1MH/s will always go down? On average, the difficulty increases and the block reward decreases. MOORE is nice because it's a deterministic bond which will always increase its hashpower, but there's also things like Cognitive, which is about to double its hashpower.
Well we are about to jump our hashpower by magnitudes when cheap ASIC is out. The time value of our large price spread towards normal deterministic bonds is just to get ready for these sort of things. |
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