That article also gives the number of seized Cas coins and total value: "25 Casascius coins (physical bitcoin) worth about 174 BTC";

Almost same no. of coins, same total BTC as per [quote link=topic=5463281.msg62742820#msg62742820 date=1692896989]
...
If we follow the 173 BTC, first it is joined by the proceeds (minus fees) of another Cas1 piece (which, was spent a couple of hours earlier (testing?) to the same address, which (also as a test) was split as 0.01 BTC going to the same 3BGbd address as the 174....

...the redeeming and spending of these 26 Cas coins is part of the consolidation (sale?) of Loaded's confiscated hoard.
[/quote]

...so they are, I'd say almost certainly those coins and the peeling was most likely DOJ (or expert contracted to them) meaning stillherehodling, seek3r, Mbitr were right!

I'm still intrigued as to whether all those 10 BTC UTXOs, the 79.2s (and others moved / split / joined within hours) - all coming from a UTXO that came indirectly from a 9k tx from March 2023 which, a couple of hops further back, was itself formed from multiple 1k UTXOs in March 2022 are also to do with Loaded's stolen stash?

But it would take someone with more skills / tools / time than I have for that.

If I may don my tinfoil hat and join the party at this late stage ...

There's a few fascinating things about the spending of these six Cas 25s last month:

First is that not only were, as pointed out above, they in the same block, they were all inputs in a single transaction of 173 (+ dust) BTC - and here's the thing...
...along with a Cas 5 piece and 18 x assumedly 2012 brass 1s (plus dust UTXOs those same coins). https://mempool.space/tx/6f72bcab8f2f9870cec6223411ce982d18d4bca2a085df7c641051ec500f3d64#vin=29

The BCH from the same coins was also sent as a single tx. https://blockchair.com/bitcoin-cash/address/1GLXybywwsGjV6YrVM16nb3GZWKzLG3uX1 (but not BSV)

That's not some randomer (or burgler) 'sweeping' coins one-at-a-time but someone with sufficient expertise to presumably create a complex online unsigned txs using the coins' addresses and separately inputting the privkeys to an off-line device for signing for both forks - at least I think there's a high probability that's how it was done.


If we follow the 173 BTC, first it is joined by the proceeds (minus fees) of another Cas1 piece (which, was spent a couple of hours earlier (testing?) to the same address, which (also as a test) was split as 0.01 BTC going to the same 3BGbd address as the 174 (multi-sig, or non-native segwit?)

Now here's where my tinfoil-hattedness might be getting off the rails....

Within 20 mins, the funds are on the go again, this time, being joined by a whole bunch of 10BTC UTXOs. This could, of course, be an exchange wallet, as could the 3BGbd address but what are all those 10 BTC native-segwit  UTXOs?!

Tracing them back, they all appear to come from UTXOs of 79.2xxx BTC and one hop further back has them all come from a single UTXO of 8.2k BTC - all of which happened on that same day.

So what to draw from that? First, to be clear, it's all guess work of course and I'm no sleuth and have no access to chain analysis tools or 'known' addresses, just simply someone intrigued clicking through a blockchain explorer... But my guess is that this is evidence that could support the theory that the redeeming and spending of these 26 Cas coins is part of the consolidation (sale?) of Loaded's confiscated hoard.

Just my thoughts - and btw. even though we've departed so far from the original topic of this thread, I've enjoyed how, step-by-step we got here

Ah, that would explain how I got burned the other way, breaking out ANACS slabs to regrade with PCGS, finding ANACS 68 and 69s coming out at 66 and 67s - and that was before PCGS recently tightened up their Casascius (brass) grading such that 67s are now very difficult to attain.

Hi Steely, Satslife and those who gave me merit.

Just to be clear, whilst I appreciate your expressions of thanks, I am am not, neither do I represent Stacks Bowers. I was the messenger and don't deserve the praise as I wouldn't deserve to be shot if it were bad news I were delivering! Not that I'm throwing it back into your face - I'll take it anyway with thanks

Stacks Bowers Microsoul coins listings update

I am pleased to report Stacks withdrew the three Microsoul coins from the November auction. They are no longer on the website auction listing 

I do acknowledge and understand that there are some who were pleased to see them included. However, as I will explain in a thread of its own, the matter of the mixed response to these coins within the community is of concern to me and I think it is in everyone's interest that the market for compromised-brand coins be as limited and minimal as possible. Personally, I am in no doubt that their exclusion is good for physical crypto in the longer term.

Thanks owlcatz, the context helps a lot. So the guy declares a 'legal contract' that recommends everyone redeem their coins immediately and claims that this 'contract' absolves him of any responsibility as to whether or not his coins are funded! In that mindset, I can't see it would have been a high priority for him consider the security implications of ensuring the stickers he was offering to give away would be clearly distinguishable from the stickers he himself used to protect the private keys on the coins he issued. So unless anyone can confirm otherwise, I guess the safest assumption to make is that some Microsoul coins out there may have been funded by any randomers with coins and stickers and who may have retained the private keys?

This sets off alarm bells for me if Microsoul was sending out sticker replacements. Is there a link to that please? I'd like to know if those labels were clearly marked as 'DIY' and that it is not possible to confuse them with the stickers concealing Gravitate-generated private keys.

Lot 2:1.075

Thanks, I'm tending to think the same way. In fact, if we'd done this when I was talking to PCGS Paris in March, we'd be half way there by now

It's interesting about the ICG v. PCGS thing because from a buyer perspective, given we know they have an established expertise in physical crypto, I'd be more comfortable buying ICG-graded coins. But from a seller perspective, if it's PCGS-graded coins that are drawing the customers, then that's what makes most sense to get done (for those with the time to wait) - unless or until they let a fake or tampered coin through unnoticed!

Lot 1: 1.125

I could probably persuade one of my family to let one go for 14-16. The problem is even though at least two of them are in phenomenally good condition, they're ungraded and I understand that most people wouldn't go for that. In the UK, where they're located, there's no grading service for crypto and for the US we have the transportation problem so we're kinda stuck for now.

I saw another thread talking about PCGS. PCGS Paris have said if we get them to them, they would do the export / re-import to get them graded with their US counterparts. However, they say 3-4 months turnaround!

I wouldn't recommend my family let them go at anything less than that unless they really need to but again, if there's a real need to, then there isn't the luxury of having months and months (actually, in my case, coming up to two years) to find a means of grading / transport / secure exchange so I completely understand why someone would peel one - especially in a bear market if getting some fiat in is the priority because you could easily lose more than whatever premium-over-face one could get if the market went against you in the interim. And, in addition, you get to keep the beautiful coin!

It does seem bonkers though that we're in a world where some people would really like these and others would really like to sell these but right now there appears to be no way of breaking through the deadlock!

Ideas anyone? 

Thanks for your responses, both.

It's all a learning curve.

They went for 1.1 and 0.55 respectively - 10% over face.

The primary complaint here last time was low quality and ungraded. I also thought the coin being located outside the US might put people off. Fixed all three and put in the best coin I've got (the 1) and they still barely covered the costs.

I think I need to go back to the drawing board and rethink this completely, maybe find me a salesman who will go out and find me buyers for a commission. I don't know but this doesn't work. Any ideas?

I know this is often the case although I have to admit I don't understand the bidding psychology that makes it so - especially where there are anti-sniping measures in place to prevent final-second bids (as there are for scarce city auctions).


I have gotten the impression (though I can not evidence this directly) that a substantial number of bitcointalk folk are also active on Scarce City.

However, thanks for raising this. Although I'm not an authority on how Scarce City works, it may be useful to some here for me to share my understanding: From what I gather,

• it isn't necessary to register in order to place a bid - except that without, each bid requires a refundable deposit payment of 1%
• bid deposits may be made on-chain (i.e. without the need for Lightning Network)
• however, before the end of the auction, the on-chain bidding option is removed - i.e. ONLY Lightning Network bids are permitted for that crucial last 10 mins you referred to.

Hope that helps. Here's their demo on the bidding process.

With the auction less than a day away, there's a chance someone will get these graded quality coins for a great price.!

Still, as of writing, now with 24 hours to go of the auction, the current high bids on both pieces are:

Current high bid for the 1 piece: 1.05 BTC https://scarce.city/auctions/casascius-1BTC-s2
Current high bid for the 0.5 piece: 0.55 BTC https://scarce.city/auctions/casascius-.5BTC-MS64

As of writing with 36 hours to go of the auction, the current high bids on both pieces are:

Current high bid for the 1 piece: 1.05 BTC https://scarce.city/auctions/casascius-1BTC-s2
Current high bid for the 0.5 piece: 0.55 BTC https://scarce.city/auctions/casascius-.5BTC-MS64

Now with corrected listings, scarce.city have just tweeted the links https://twitter.com/scarcedotcity/status/1505914778132398080 (which I've also added to the OP). Thank you for your interest

Thanks mj for pointing that out. The photos got mixed up. The coin shortbits and grading are correct as per listing description. I'll have the photos exchanges for the correct, matching ones as soon as I can.

Current high bid for the 1 piece: 1.05 BTC https://scarce.city/auctions/casascius-1BTC-s2
Current high bid for the 0.5 piece: 0.55 BTC https://scarce.city/auctions/casascius-.5BTC-MS64

https://twitter.com/scarcedotcity/status/1505914778132398080

Both loaded, ICG-graded, the .5 @ MS64, the 1 @ MS68. Both in the US ready for easy delivery to US buyers.

Example of photos of the 1 BTC piece.




Examples of photos of the .5 BTC piece (more on the scarce city auction page):






Any queries welcome.

Have fun

Please note there were incorrect photos, incorrect information and incorrect links in the listings that have now been corrected. Thanks to minorjones for drawing my attention to that.

These guys have started auctioning physical crypto to the traditional numismatists too - https://auctions.stacksbowers.com/lots?search=casascius&lots_range=upcoming

In fact, two of mine (currently the first two listed: brass 1 BTC s2 2013 and brass 0.5 BTC 2013 are mine).