It wasnt a name calling contest. It was a discussion of the tech.
really? Compare this statement: --------------------------- The problem that i see with dark is not necessarily whether it works or not. This criticism applies even if it does work. My big problem, and the reason I didn't buy it a long time ago even though I was shopping for anonymity focused projects, is that its just so god damn inelegant. Its like instead of approaching the problem from a fresh perspective and inventing something novel and clever, the devs decided to take the whack a mole approach. You whack the first problem over the head with a blunt instrument, this creates more problems, and you whack those over the head with another bunt instrument, thus creating more problems. The way i picture it in my head, and we see this in cartoons sometimes, someone is trying to stop a hose from spraying so they stick their thumb in the hole, the pressure builds up and water sprays out of another hole somewhere, and they stick their toe in that hole, then water erupts from somewhere else and they stick their other thumb in that hole. This is all I could picture in my head while hearing a description of dark for the first time.
Its just so god damned ugly. Maybe it works, but even if it does it's a vulgar solution to the problem, where as ring signatures and unlikable deterministic addresses is so beautiful and elegant and simple. Reading the white paper for the first time I was just struck with the beauty and elegance of the approach.
--------------------------- with this statement --------------------------- Coins need to be mixed so you guys implement coinjoin at the protocol level. But then you cant just have every random user hosting coinjoin sessions because then you would open an attack vector for troll coinjoin hosts so you make master nodes. But then you cant just have anyone joining in the coinjoin because you could dos by requesting transactions but not signing so you implement the idea of collateral to be part of the session. But then now you have no incentive for the masternodes to form so you give them part of the collateral. It wouldnt be mixed enough if you did this at the transaction level so you have the blockchain tumbling peoples coins all the time. This is ridiculously expensive so you greatly subsidize the darksend transactions inorder to hide the huge cost of anonymity in your system. Now you have to worry about people trying to send transactions to each other through darksend so you have to try to come up with some clever mechanism to avoid this problem.
Its just like I described in my post. Plugging up the first hole but then new ones appear so you try to plug those up. Its an analogy of course but, in my mind, its an apt one and there is certainly reasons behind it. it wasn't just senseless name calling.
see the difference? BTW, your revised explanation is VERY inaccurate. |
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Public Apology to the DASH community. ------------------------------------------- I read a post by Anon136. I assumed he wanted intelligent dialog. I engaged him by explaining how instantx worked. TLDR: I was wrong to engage. They all have me blocked but I did nothing that could be construed as trolling.
That says a lot right there. This is it. If there is someone here who can defend dark on this particular point: Can we talk about this instant transaction thing. How does it supposedly work? In the world of crypto there are only 2 ways of doing transactions instantly. A trust based system or centralization. Has dark somehow over turned the metaphorical laws of gravity in the world of crypto or do they use one of those two. If they use one of those two what is the justification?
The masternodes lock the tx, even if a conflicting valid transaction gets mined they reject the block its in. This opens a nice sort of attack where you can split the network (i.e. isolating MNs from each other) You would be very welcome in our xmr vs drk discussion thread. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1001642 It's fair and open and moderator is only deleting obvious troll posts. Lol. Another one? Sorry but I'll pass on that xmr PR thread. If you want to know about drk ask around on darkcointalk or check the github repository. Its only an xmr pr thread because no one has come forward to competently defend your position. The moment someone does this, assuming your position has merit, than it could very easily be transformed into a dark pr thread. The point is to have open troll free discussion from both sides, im here as an emissary because we are distinctly lacking in the dark representative department. But there certainly is no lock, no means of filtering dark representatives out, its yours for the taking if you can take it. THIS is what got basically everyone to ignore me. How can people possibly be this delicate? Ive been on this forum since 2010 and i have a total of 14 people on my ignore list, since 2010! I cant even imagine how many people are on the ignore list of people THIS sensitive. (interestingly icebreaker is one of the lucky 14) I even went the extra mile: THIS is what got basically everyone to ignore me. How can people possibly be this delicate? Ive been on this forum since 2010 and i have a total of 14 people on my ignore list, since 2010! I cant even imagine how many people are on the ignore list of people THIS sensitive. (interestingly icebreaker is one of the lucky 14)
I don't think so. This is what rubbed people the wrong way (bolding is mine): So I guess I'll get this thing started.
The problem that i see with dark is not necessarily whether it works or not. This criticism applies even if it does work. My big problem, and the reason I didn't buy it a long time ago even though I was shopping for anonymity focused projects, is that its just so god damn inelegant. Its like instead of approaching the problem from a fresh perspective and inventing something novel and clever, the devs decided to take the whack a mole approach. You whack the first problem over the head with a blunt instrument, this creates more problems, and you whack those over the head with another bunt instrument, thus creating more problems. The way i picture it in my head, and we see this in cartoons sometimes, someone is trying to stop a hose from spraying so they stick their thumb in the hole, the pressure builds up and water sprays out of another hole somewhere, and they stick their toe in that hole, then water erupts from somewhere else and they stick their other thumb in that hole. This is all I could picture in my head while hearing a description of dark for the first time.
Its just so god damned ugly. Maybe it works, but even if it does it's a vulgar solution to the problem, where as ring signatures and unlikable deterministic addresses is so beautiful and elegant and simple. Reading the white paper for the first time I was just struck with the beauty and elegance of the approach.
That's really all I have to say. Also I just want to put this here. My nomination for dark mascot.
I'm sure if you EXPLAIN how these statements are supposed to be viewed... I apologize. |
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Yet you post that language in a "neutral" thread and invite DRK posters to read it? Can you tell me why you are surprised by the reaction? It wasn't trolling for me to invite you guys to come there and argue against comments like mine. A comment that i couldnt have you argue against in your thread because i didnt and wouldnt post something like that there. Because im not a troll! You invite DRK posters to participate in a name calling contest? Why not discuss the tech? |
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THIS is what got basically everyone to ignore me. How can people possibly be this delicate? Ive been on this forum since 2010 and i have a total of 14 people on my ignore list, since 2010! I cant even imagine how many people are on the ignore list of people THIS sensitive. (interestingly icebreaker is one of the lucky 14)
I don't think so. This is what rubbed people the wrong way (bolding is mine): So I guess I'll get this thing started.
The problem that i see with dark is not necessarily whether it works or not. This criticism applies even if it does work. My big problem, and the reason I didn't buy it a long time ago even though I was shopping for anonymity focused projects, is that its just so god damn inelegant. Its like instead of approaching the problem from a fresh perspective and inventing something novel and clever, the devs decided to take the whack a mole approach. You whack the first problem over the head with a blunt instrument, this creates more problems, and you whack those over the head with another bunt instrument, thus creating more problems. The way i picture it in my head, and we see this in cartoons sometimes, someone is trying to stop a hose from spraying so they stick their thumb in the hole, the pressure builds up and water sprays out of another hole somewhere, and they stick their toe in that hole, then water erupts from somewhere else and they stick their other thumb in that hole. This is all I could picture in my head while hearing a description of dark for the first time.
Its just so god damned ugly. Maybe it works, but even if it does it's a vulgar solution to the problem, where as ring signatures and unlikable deterministic addresses is so beautiful and elegant and simple. Reading the white paper for the first time I was just struck with the beauty and elegance of the approach.
That's really all I have to say. Also I just want to put this here. My nomination for dark mascot.
I'm sure if you EXPLAIN how these statements are supposed to be viewed... Whats to explain. Thats how i feel about your project. Yes im on the monero side, but i never said anything negative about your project in your house. I never said that or anything even remotely like that in your thread. I wouldn't be disrespectful like that. Yet you post that language in a "neutral" thread and invite DRK posters to read it? Can you tell me why you are surprised by the reaction? |
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THIS is what got basically everyone to ignore me. How can people possibly be this delicate? Ive been on this forum since 2010 and i have a total of 14 people on my ignore list, since 2010! I cant even imagine how many people are on the ignore list of people THIS sensitive. (interestingly icebreaker is one of the lucky 14)
I don't think so. This is what rubbed people the wrong way (bolding is mine): So I guess I'll get this thing started.
The problem that i see with dark is not necessarily whether it works or not. This criticism applies even if it does work. My big problem, and the reason I didn't buy it a long time ago even though I was shopping for anonymity focused projects, is that its just so god damn inelegant. Its like instead of approaching the problem from a fresh perspective and inventing something novel and clever, the devs decided to take the whack a mole approach. You whack the first problem over the head with a blunt instrument, this creates more problems, and you whack those over the head with another bunt instrument, thus creating more problems. The way i picture it in my head, and we see this in cartoons sometimes, someone is trying to stop a hose from spraying so they stick their thumb in the hole, the pressure builds up and water sprays out of another hole somewhere, and they stick their toe in that hole, then water erupts from somewhere else and they stick their other thumb in that hole. This is all I could picture in my head while hearing a description of dark for the first time.
Its just so god damned ugly. Maybe it works, but even if it does it's a vulgar solution to the problem, where as ring signatures and unlikable deterministic addresses is so beautiful and elegant and simple. Reading the white paper for the first time I was just struck with the beauty and elegance of the approach.
That's really all I have to say. Also I just want to put this here. My nomination for dark mascot.
I'm sure if you EXPLAIN how these statements are supposed to be viewed... |
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Are you guys serious? NOTHING I did was trolling. I wasn't laying any spiders webs. I was attempting to promote a better place for xmr vs drk debate than in our respective threads. THATS ALL.
Judge Smails: You know, despite what happened, I-I'm still convinced you have many fine qualities and I... I think you can still become a gentleman some day if you understand and abide by the rules of decent society. |
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OK so the whitepaper is simple enough. Levering up the existing masternode infrastructure to get 0 confirmation transactions that are more secure than a 0 confirmation bitcoin transaction but less secure than a 1 confirmation bitcoin transaction. You have instant transactions in the same way that merchants can accept 0 confirmation bitcoin transactions so long as they have a direct connection to a few reliable nodes spread out over the planet that are sniffing for doublespends.
That's fair enough. I wouldn't go so far as to say you have created instant transactions, but i wouldn't either say that what you have created here is useless, it is definitely a useful idea. You can instantly buy a soda or maybe a t-shirt, but you definitely can not instantly buy a car with this scheme.
As I understand it, you certainly CAN buy a car using instantx. The inputs will be locked by the masternodes and other transactions using them will be rejected by them. The car purchase will be the only one in the next block. |
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If its wrong ...
Smooth isn't the best source of accurate information. smooth: "If A+B=C and D+E=F, then A must equal E." How about this for an accurate statement: "Evan hold some DRK, therefore he has a vested interest in making those coins more valuable." |
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ok fine. someone answer my original question here and ill carry it over to the other thread myself. since no one can be bothered to address the claim there.
Sure thing, give me a minute to assemble my text. EDIT ---------- God damn you coins101, you are faster than instantx. |
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What? Why? This is an important discussion that needs to be had and darkcoin needs representation from people capable of addressing some of the finer points.
If you want to learn about the functionality of DASH, this is the right place. Spending time in a thread arguing with XMR trolls is a waste of time. |
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Just taking a short timeout from the troll bashing to bring you this real world development. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- France steps up monitoring of cash payments to fight "low-cost terrorism"
http://www.nst.com.my/node/77099“fight against the use of cash and anonymity in the French economy“, (Finance Minister Michel) Sapin said.
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...snake oil anonymity concept called masternodes...But now that I've seen what I've seen, I won't been ignoring it.
Welcome to my ignore list. |
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Wow, I started this? I thought you would have had thicker skin that that Smooth.
Good morning Stonehedge. All is well, Celtic are 5 points clear. Your DRK is in the bag. |
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It would be if it were a "rampage". I don't see it that way. I give my opinions, which are frequently disputed, denied or attacked, or responded to by attacking another coin in some non-responsive way.
If opposing views were welcome here and not treated as "trolls" things might go differently. I hate to keep borrowing a term from iCEBREAKER but he's absolute right that attack-the-attacker is the usual MO around here when anyone presents an opposing view.
Furthermore I don't really know that it makes sense to lump together all of the DRK skeptics who are posting here these days (not sure if that's what you meant by rampage either). I certainly don't have any connection with them.
I'm not lumping all the sceptics together. I'm just having a (hopefully) polite public conversation with you. As you are aware, there are a variety of opposing views both here and elsewhere. Some people ask questions. They mostly get answered. Some people point out problems. This can lead in a number of directions. Some people holler "instamine" a hundred times. What are we to do with them? |
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Anyone have an estimate of what the annualized yield of running a DRK masternode is  Figure anywhere from 70 to 90 MN payments in the year. Reward is going to be increasing.. But I'd average around 2.2 Drk. 2*70=140drk on low and 180drk on the high. That's around 800 to 1000 bucks at current price. So, on the order of 16% a year. That's respectable. Problem is the year part. Hmm, definitely gonna have to consider this. Remember, you can "send" the coins at any time. They are not locked and still available in your wallet. |
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... especially when I started getting trolled by name here, was with really inspired me to speak out against this crap.
I'm not attacking, I'm trying to understand. Can you post the quote of the poster who trolled you by name on this thread? God, that sounds like a pain to find that. I'll see. I think it was this one, where he was responding to my comments on the dashcoin thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg10708741#msg10708741I don't think I've ever posted on this thread before that, except maybe once or twice during some BCX drama. So Stonehedge was commenting here on your posts in the DashCoin thread? And that was enough to start this rampage? Seems like overreacting to me. |
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... especially when I started getting trolled by name here, was with really inspired me to speak out against this crap.
I'm not attacking, I'm trying to understand. Can you post the quote of the poster who trolled you by name on this thread? |
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So, no, this has little to do with XMR vs. DRK to me.
I quite simply don't like how the whitewashing of the instamine continues (especially with the rebrand apparently intended to go after wider markets who probably don't understand that kind of scams that come out of crypto), didn't like the aggressive and arrogant attitude against dashcoin (opened my eyes to how disgusting many of the people who support this coin really are), and don't think the technology is worth much either.
Hmm. So the "DRK instamine" was just fine with you for a year. You didn't feel the need to post even once. Now, it's an all-hands-on-deck alert? "don't think the technology is worth much either" Yeah, you're probably right. Nobody wants untraceable transactions that confirm in 5 seconds. |
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This is a Dark/DASH thread...get it?
beat you by 19 seconds. |
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