Briefly spoke to him earlier on irc so I know he's in a meeting at the moment. I've just pinged him about this for when he's out.

If you check in the developer section or subscribe to the dev mail lists you'll see that this is an area undergoing much discussion and development.

How are dividends split if all the shares aren't sold?

I presume unsold shares are not included in the dividend calculation but it would be good to know for sure. Of course, they may all have sold by that point but it may depend somewhat on the BTC exchange rate.

bitcoind actually has a few issues, such as with multisig or large wallets.

Bitcoin tech is much more immature than people realise. It's not ready for the big time quite as much as people think.

This. HI appears to be lacking core security features which makes me wary of doing any trading there.

E.g. options to require auth to withdraw, buy and sell. Locked btc addres to withdraw to. Btc address to associate shares with. Last I checked I didn't see any of those (correct me if I'm wrong).

Ok, in that case I am more understanding and I certainly agree with you in general. So if there isn't a Foundation, how do we do it? Or is it specifically 'this' foundation that's the problem? In which case I agree that it is imperfect, but I think it is a reasonable option.


Well, except they haven't. In a handful specific countries they had uprisings for all kinds of reasons. Money was only one of them. In the US they had the 1% stuff which I'd argue has been more successful than they get credit for. We all know about the 1% now, it's passed into common parlance.


Again, this is just cherry picking. Look at the history of man kind. In fact we live in one of, if not the most, stable and safe periods ever. Not everywhere, not everyone, and there are huge problems - but there always have been. It's the details that change, human beings are the constant. People fight wars over money, power, religion, land, food, water, nationalism, family disputes!

It's always been this way. People are corrupt. Money corrupts. Financial systems come and go. I'm not excusing any of it, and being in the UK I loath what our government are doing to everyone under 40/students, just saying that a lot of people sound very tin foil hat to me. Always strive to make things better, but you should also put the current situation into perspective. My parents lived under the genuine and real fear of a nuclear war. Before that WW2. Before that the even more deadly WW1. There was also the great depression. That's just the last 100 years. I'd much rather be living today, even with the economic problems that exist.

I can strongly recommend reading up on the Roman Republic and how it led to the Roman Empire. When you understand the politics and economics at the time, you do have this curious realisation that nothing really changes, except politicians aren't slaughtering each other in Washington and putting heads on sticks!

Bitcoin will change none of this, only shuffle the pack again. That's not to say it won't bring good to some societies but I hope you get my point.

I keep hearing this from people who then have no counterpoint. What is your alternative? You want to go underground? And you're completely misrepresenting the quote as well.

If you want it underground then I'm not going to argue that point. As a technologist and an entrepreneur I think it's a poor idea and politically lead, and I think it's bad for Bitcoin and for the masses.

If you want to use Bitcoin as your tool to try and change the way we're governed then go right ahead, but you do not represent Bitcoin - you represent an ideological point of view and I'm good with that. The Foundation, and I'm not saying they are the best thing ever so don't get me wrong, are there to represent Bitcoin. They are not there to take on the government and nor is Bitcoin.

I'd also like to add that this whole anti-government/libertarianism is a very American thing. There'll be some non US citizens in this thread who think the same (since this is Bitcoin) but across the rest of the world it's really seen as quite an odd thing. Yeah democracy has faults and looking from the outside America seems particularly weird, but Bitcoin isn't the fix you're looking for.

I don't think you'll find for one second anyone here wants the US, or any country, interfering with the Bitcoin protocol or development. However, here's the thing. They already do. The way mining is currently seen, AML, KYC, exchanges, future coloured coin issues - they already interfere. So the key is trying to limit that interference to something which doesn't get in the way, so business can operate, so miners can mine without wondering about the feds knocking on the door, so people can be compliant with tax law, so more places can accept Bitcoin, so people can buy it safely, and so on.

So, stick your head in the sand or finger up at the world and carry on regardless or try and carve a path which works for everyone?

They are functioning as a lobby and/or advisory group. I'm not sure you have much understanding of how governments work. You have to engage in politics to get things done when it comes to the law or regulation, by definition.

So how do you want to do it?

You have an incredibly diverse set of people interesting in Bitcoin and covering pretty much all extremes. So the Foundation is doing what it can to ensure Bitcoin itself is accepted by the world at large and not stopped in its tracks. Yes it can go on without the US, but that's not exactly helpful to Bitcoin or to anyone in the US>

You may not like politics or politicians (few do), or the various lobby groups (few do), but this how things are done.

Independence does not mean you stick you head in the sand and go la-la-la to the real world. That's stupidity and arrogance, not independence. What you want is light touch regulation only where it's required. We may all disagree over what that means but some regulation is unavoidable - not of Bitcoin itself but of areas such as KYC of exchanges.

So what the foundation need to do is show the potential for Bitcoin to expand the wider economy, to benefit US businesses, that it is a technology. Conversely, that making it difficult to use could push it more towards the black market, other countries may massively benefit to the US' cost, and so on.

I knew some of the bitcoin crowd were rather extreme in their views but the niavity shown by posts in this thread defies belief. Bitcoin wasn't created to take down fiat currencies or visa or paypal. They are all different things with different pros and cons. Bitcoin has nothing whatsoever to do with the rights and wrongs of the current financial system other than giving power back to individuals over their own money. Which is an awesome thing to do.

It's a financial instrument, an awesome technology, that's completely new and hence existing regulations don't cover it.

These kinds of meetings are required to ensure that when regulations and laws are updated, they are updated with an understanding of bitcoin and not without.

So do you want a bitcoin where it's entirely black market, (more) rife with scammers, and usable only by the technical elite and criminals, or do you want it to give power to real people, people who want to send money to their friends or relatives, who want to accept payment without hassles and political interference, who can't access bank accounts or credit cards, and so on?

If you want it to be black market and exclusive, tell the 'Feds' where to go, but that makes no sense at all. They aren't all against you and they aren't all out to kill bitcoin. It's the attitudes like some of you have demonstrated here that do give bitcoin a bad name, that do make people want to throw it back at you. You sound like petulant teenagers telling mum and dad you hate them before running up to your room.

Bitcoin isn't yours. It doesn't belong to you. It belongs to everyone. So don't spoil it for the rest of us. Whoever is speaking on behalf of bitcoin needs your support, not your petulant rants.

TL;DR - grow up, man up, look around and smell the coffee. Bitcoin needs to fit into the regulatory climate so it can become mainstream. Only then can it truly throw the financial shackles off much of the world. And lord help us it bloody needs it.

That number is not on the weexchange site. Did you grab it from reddit or a cache? This is what I find on weexchange.

https://www.weexchange.co/?page=helpcontact

However, it makes no difference. Weexchange is more or less just Ukyo and he is dealing with withdrawals based on ticket order. So calling or speaking to Ukyo personally won't get things moving faster. Just ensure you have a ticket raised and watch this space.

Bit of an aside, but Havelock is severely lacking in security features to protect trades and withdrawals. In general, it's just lacking features in fact.

He said he tried to send them all to a clean wallet and it wasn't working after 3 hours. Until he has an alternative solution working, this is just how it is Seb. It's unacceptable to everyone but we're all in the same boat, so all he can do is process in the order of tickets. I've been through this with ukyo in detail on irc, this really is how it has to be done right now. No priorities for anyone.

It sucks but at least ukyo does not appear to be scamming - although doing so much on your own has just bitten him back - and there is no 4k 'hack'.

My ticket date is also 28th. Will post when processed.

I asked ukyo about this - the number you called shouldn't be on the website so if you found it there, post the link here. The only contacts are for the Australian side now. I had called it after it being posted on Reddit.

I don't think so, it's just that non manual ones may or may not work.

You don't need any more tickets or any PMs. UKYO is several days behind but catching up (hopefully my turn soon - will post when receive funds). Definitely still back in October's withdrawals though.

I feel very bad for transactions going to Inputs.io - that's really screwed up.

Unfortunately any of us with the withdrawal issue need to report a ticket to get a manual withdrawal.

He is -definitely- doing them in order.

You need to raise a ticket and then wait for it to be processed. They are going through now but a few days behind.

You have to remember that the Bitcoin price can go down as well as up. The prospectus has contingencies for this. By Nov 30th Bitcoin could be $120 again.

It makes no sense to change plans other than it will give Neobee more flexibility as they convert BTC->Fiat for immediate expenditure. If the Bitcoin prices is >$200+ and we get into December, then converting a chunk to fiat may give more benefits than were planned. At the same time, they need a BTC reserve.

We have no idea what mix of BTC/Fiat they plan to work with between now and February so it's hard to say how much this has helped.