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1181  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Why don't we have bitcoin smart contract? on: December 03, 2019, 10:08:26 PM
Thanks everyone for sharing so much meaningful information. I really feel that I got more information that I really wanted to be
aware of, yet it is not as promoted / marketed to the masses. I didn't know about Bitcoin already implementing the escrow thing,
nor did I know about RKS, Omni layer , simplicity and scripts.

Most of this is still highly experimental technology so there's no sense in marketing it to the masses (yet). Also, once these technologies are ready for the masses (in terms of maturity and usability), if all goes well they won't be aware that they are using these technologies to begin with.

Case in point: You have never heard of OMNI but you're probably aware of Tether. Well, it's an OMNI token.


We should really start working on user experience.

Lots of wallet projects working on that front. And it makes sense, because that's the part that is facing the user. Smart contracts, DApps? Your average user couldn't care less.



To use internet you don't need to know the OSI structure  Wink

Well one should be aware of at least layer 1 if the router is supposed to work Grin
1182  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Why don't we have bitcoin smart contract? on: December 03, 2019, 01:30:46 PM
I think OP might be interested in Simplicity:
https://github.com/ElementsProject/simplicity

It's still a long way out but should eventually offer the capabilities of Ethereum-like smart-contracts without the pitfalls that turing-completeness brings.

(keeping in mind that a language does not necessarily need to be turing-complete to be powerful and expressive. matter of fact most critical infrastructure such as military and aeronautical applications follow code conventions that explicitely try to avoid patterns usually associated with turing-completeness such as recursion)
1183  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Yet Another Idea on: December 03, 2019, 12:38:19 PM
If an output is spent, it means the network is aware of it so, why would anyone accept a transaction that attempts to double spend it?

Because:

There's no such thing as instant flawless communication.


It is also worth noting that:

[...] all nodes receive all messages eventually.

...the above can not be ensured. Outages happen. DDoS attacks happen. In the scenario in this thread the correct order of events is not known and not consistent across nodes (e.g. what happens if a node receives a transaction that spends the outputs of a transaction it hasn't seen yet?).


In general this approach reminds me very much of what we see in DAG-based coins. Problem being even these coins have to rely on some form of central coordination to prevent things from going awry (eg. IOTA's coordinator and ByteBall's witnesses) despite being far more fleshed out.
1184  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Yet Another Idea on: December 02, 2019, 11:31:36 PM
If you do get one or more double spend transactions, all of them should become invalid and the output(s) they attempted to spend should be locked so it can never be spent again.

What if only part of the network sees the double-spend attempt? Now part of the network will lock the outputs and part of the network will accept it as valid.

What if there's a double-spend attempt using outputs that are already spent? In the network you describe you have no idea whether everyone has the same ledger state so while one node may accept a transaction based on what they deem a "confirmed" output another node may flag it as a double-spend, lock the coins and therefore invalidate all subsequent transactions.


In Bitcoin, it's the block interval that prevents double spending, not the blockchain.

The block interval only keeps the orphan rate at bay. In itself it does nothing to prevent double-spends.

What prevents double-spending is cooercing miners to cooperate into cryptographically sealing the ledger state, creating a tamper-proof time-stamped history of transactions that all nodes in the network can agree upon.
1185  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Yet Another Idea on: December 02, 2019, 02:18:53 PM
Nobody ever knows the full history but if a node appears to be lacking data, it can simply wait or request it from the network. In Bitcoin, transaction messages are constantly being validated and relayed between peers. How is that not a consensus?

Because it doesn't resolve conflicting ledger states.

The challenge is not to share a consistent ledger state across multiple nodes -- the challenge is to solve this in a way that still works even when someone is actively trying to manipulate the ledger in their favour.


There's only one node per IP address though, not per wallet, so nobody is going to be hosting a million nodes on their PC.

There can be millions of IP addresses per node though. Attacking a network by pretending to be millions of IP addresses is fairly easy comparing to attacking a network by obtaining a decent amount of hashpower. Which is one of the reasons why PoW has been invented to begin with (even before Bitcoin, look up Hashcash).
1186  Local / Deutsch (German) / Re: Kryptoverwahrgeschäft on: November 29, 2019, 12:27:23 PM
Find ich tatsächlich gar nicht mal so schlecht.

Für Endnutzer die auf ein Custodial Wallet bestehen ist es meiner Meinung nach eine positive Entwicklung wenn da zumindest eine gewisse Rechtssicherheit geschaffen wird. Bisschen KYC wird die da nicht jucken, ist ja bei Banken auch nicht anders. Alle anderen können ja wie gehabt weiterhin ihr Ding machen und richtige Wallets verwenden.

Für Firmen in der Crypto-Branche mit Sitz oder Kunden in Deutschland ist es natürlich Kacke, aber das die Finanzbranche regulatorisch ein Minenfeld ist ja nix neues.


Macht man sich eigentlich auch mal Gedanken über den Datenschutz? Als Nutzer soll ich meinen Ausweis und alle persönliche Daten einem Anbieter geben und hoffen, dass die Daten nicht missbraucht oder gehackt werden?

Datenschutz und Datensicherheit werden zumindest im EU-Raum schon relativ ernst genommen und sind ja u.A. Teil der DSGVO [1], bzw gibt's z.B. für Kreditinstitute noch mal verschärfte Anforderungen [2].

[1] https://www.wko.at/service/wirtschaftsrecht-gewerberecht/EU-Datenschutz-Grundverordnung:-Datensicherheit-und-Daten.html
[2] https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mindestanforderungen_an_das_Risikomanagement_(BA)

Insofern sind persönlichen Daten in einem Europäischen Daten-Center das den entsprechenden Auflagen folgt besser aufgehoben als in irgendner Bude in Panama. Das diese Daten am besten gar nicht erst aufbewahrt werden sollten steht natürlich außer Frage, aber man wird ja nicht dazu gezwungen ein Custodial Wallet zu verwenden. (im Gegensatz zu Bank-Konten um die man nicht wirklich rum kommt)


P.S.: In Stuttgart steht jetzt ein neuer BTC ATm - Auscashen bis 10K € ohne KYC  Cool

Mal schaun wie lange :X
1187  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Mining (Altcoins) / Re: PSU efficiency calculation on: November 27, 2019, 04:38:23 PM
With a consumption of 1500W you're looking at I = 1500W / 12V = 125A which according to the table is at an efficiency of ~94%

This means that with the miner you mentioned you'll look at a power draw of roughly 1500W / 0.94 = 1595.74W

Looking at the chart the PSU's peak efficiency is 95% at 60A * 12V = 720W

This is assuming an input voltage of 200-240V as per the Bitmain chart.



For reference:
https://www.rapidtables.com/convert/electric/Watt_to_Amp.html
1188  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Technical Support / Re: Quick question about the verison number on: November 27, 2019, 02:47:19 PM
Over the past 11 years Bitcoin has been tested, hacked, hammered, drilled, sawed and torched. The core security and consensus models appear to be fully implemented so why is it 0.1x instead of 1.1x?

And yet it's still highly experimental technology Smiley

I guess Bitcoin staying at 0.x is a reflection of there still being a lot of work to be done. Increasing the major version would also imply a certain amount of incompatibility between releases so the question becomes how big of a change would warrant a bump of the major version. SegWit was probably as close as it got in this regard but yet again it seems more like work is just getting started rather than being wrapped up.

Either way, Gmail stayed in beta for what, 5 years? So I guess we can give Bitcoin Core a bit of leeway in this regard.
1189  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Service Discussion (Altcoins) / Re: Wasabi Wallet - Making Bitcoin Transactions Untraceable on: November 22, 2019, 10:26:53 PM
I wonder if it is possible to create alternative version of Wasabi Wallet for Ethereum network?

I don't know any wallet that has privacy for Ethereum so far, and I would say Wasabi Eth version would be great to have.

I think MEW is focusing on privacy so what wallet actually you want to use for ethereum?
If you don't know this about MEW you can read this https://www.myetherwallet.com/privacy-policy

So you don't need to make a fork of wasabi for ETH because you have privacy on using myetherwallet.

Or are you looking for an offline wallet? Did you hear about airgap wallet? it will be the best option for ETH offline wallet.


I think dkbit98 is referring to privacy in terms of obfuscated transactions that make blockchain-analysis and corelating users / transactions harder. MEW is explicitly warning about this issue in their privacy policy so it doesn't seem like they have any functionality in this regard.

THE BLOCKCHAIN

Due to the inherent transparency of many blockchains, including the Ethereum Blockchain, transactions that individuals broadcast via MyEtherWallet may be publicly accessible. This includes, but is not limited to, your public sending address, the public address of the receiver, the amount sent or received, and any other data a user has chosen to include in a given transaction. Information stored on a blockchain may be public, immutable, and difficult or even impossible to remove or delete. Transactions and addresses may reveal information about the user’s identity and information can potentially be correlated now or in the future by any party who chooses to do so, including law enforcement. Users are encouraged to review how privacy and transparency on the blockchain works.
1190  Other / Meta / Re: The Bitcoin Forum is 10 years old! on: November 22, 2019, 08:52:59 PM
Thank you for 10 years, happy birthday, Bitcointalk! In the days of modern social media I'm very happy to have a place such as this, despite all the shitposts, spam and scams one has to circumnavigate at times.


Hats off and a thousand thanks to theymos for all the hard work he does to keep this place top notch.
It would be quite the scene if all the WO hat users took their hat off in homage to the forum!

I found that image funnier than I should.
1191  Other / Meta / Re: 10th anniversary art contest on: November 22, 2019, 04:26:48 PM
Because it always bears repeating:



3BvMEB423GA5db1RUX2sojFwBsDcgdtNtG
1192  Economy / Economics / Re: Negative interest rates in Germany on: November 22, 2019, 12:00:36 PM
I don't understand why they didn't rename it as a 'service fee'. Free banking isn't a thing at all in quite a few places.

I have a bit of money in the bank. It's not there for investment purposes. It's there to be spent. I'd shop around if one place implemented this but wouldn't bust a gut doing it.


If you want to charge -0.5% of 100,000, that's 500 euros per annum. Which is a pretty large service fee. It looks smaller if you say it is a negative interest rate!

No worries, banks don't shy away from that kind of service fee. They just usually hide them by splitting them up into monthly fixed costs as well as penny and diming you for every bit of service on top.

Take a look at this price sheet, for example:
https://www.raiffeisen.at/eBusiness/services/resources/media/1021497204966-NA-1279548085059316048-1-30-NA.pdf
(the numbers will differ depending on the branch, but the pricing structure is usually pretty much the same)

Including taxes and ignoring compound interest they already charge you more than 0.5% in service fees for storing investments fonds by chipping away 0.039% plus tax on a monthly basis.

Luckily there are banks that focus on investments and charge much much lower fees. But most people simply get screwed over by their banks on a regular basis, no matter if they stay in cash or stocks.
1193  Economy / Economics / Re: Negative interest rates in Germany on: November 21, 2019, 02:41:12 PM
Better to hold stocks, bonds, real estate or bitcoin.

Bonds are even worse than just keeping money in the bank right now. Bitcoin is... well, gotta love Bitcoin, but one also has to admit that it currently doesn't fit everyone's risk profile.


They don't have to invest in stocks in Germany. They can invest all over the world, wherever they find a profitable opportunity.

I think a lot of the general populace still sees stock investments as a form of gambling. Even when investing conservatively via index funds you still might wind up with your funds being held up in a negative position over a prolonged time when a bear market strikes. This is further aggrevated by everybody and their dog expecting the next bear market being just around the corner especially since the current global boom cycle is already lasting for an above-average timeframe.


Also, they can invest in real estate. The mind boggles at Germans continuing to rent in old age, while keeping their money in banks that charge negative interest rates. That's a recipe for getting poor.

Investing in real estate takes money. Like in most countries, real estate ownership has become pretty much non-achievable during the last 10 years. In most areas the cost of real estate has more than doubled during the last decade or so, with disposable income staying pretty much the same. Not a good recipe for increasing home ownership. Especially with the middle class being squeezed through all age groups. The young are fucked because they were born too late for fetching good real estate prices. The old are fucked because the pension system is failing them. I think most people do want to achieve home ownership. It just has become pretty much impossible for most.

1194  Other / Meta / Re: 10th anniversary art contest on: November 19, 2019, 02:56:16 PM
So much stuff to learn
encryption, trading, mining
Bitcointalk dot org

Do not invest more
than you can afford to lose
Bitcointalk dot org

Keep private keys safe
Don't leave coins on an exchange
Bitcointalk dot org

Be careful with alts
because most of them are shit
Bitcointalk dot org

Thank you for 10 years
it's been a rollercoaster
Bitcointalk dot org

Sorry for this post
it is not a good entry
3BvMEB423GA5db1RUX2sojFwBsDcgdtNtG
1195  Other / Meta / Re: 10th anniversary art contest on: November 17, 2019, 09:19:52 AM
tfw you start reading up on that bitcoin thing



Happy 10th Bitcointalk Anniversary everyone!

3BvMEB423GA5db1RUX2sojFwBsDcgdtNtG <3
1196  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Why are few address impossible to be singed? on: November 14, 2019, 01:55:36 PM
What wallet are you using? If you're using Electrum, you should be able to sign a message as described by o_e_l_e_o with the caveat that your counterparty has to use Electrum as well to verify your signature. They don't need to use Electrum as their main wallet, they only need it for verification.

If the address belongs to an exchange or similar custodial service then no, no you can't use this address to sign a message.

Yes, and don't upload your private keys or recovery seed. Ever.

1197  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Mining (Altcoins) / Re: Trouble finding miner terminal on: November 11, 2019, 04:25:29 PM
Have you tried logging into your router to see what devices are connected?

Maybe the new miner is trying to use the same IP address as one of your other machines or maybe it is in a different subnet.

If it's trying to use the same IP address as one of your other machines you'll probably have to temporarily disconnect your machines one by one to see which IP address is conflicting. Alternatively Connect the troublesome miner on a router of its own and see what IP it requests.

If you find that the miner is in a different subnet (say 192.168.2.xx instead of 192.168.1.xx) you'll need to change the local IP address of your PC to the same subnet as the miner (192.168.2.xx in this case) so as to access the miner and correct its IP address to the correct subnet.
1198  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Technical Support / Re: A pretty straightforward question about newly generated addresses in Armory on: November 10, 2019, 12:52:06 PM
Addresses are derived from a BIG Number, which is randomly generated.
That's not correct because every single addresses reproduced or generated by the wallet come from the master seed key.
I believe the HeRetiK have provide the OP the right answer before.

CounterEntropy is correct as well.

Strictly speaking, the seed is just a big number. So are private keys, public keys, etc... any kind of digital data. Seed phrases are just a way to express those big numbers in a human readable way.

1199  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Technical Support / Re: Are all BTC addresses really unique? on: November 08, 2019, 11:20:09 AM
Then you didn't get what I have intended to say, There are 2256 private keys. There are 2160 legacy addresses  calculated from those  keys by applying RIPEMD-160 to SHA-256 hash of those keys. It means at the end we  have collision as only 2160 legacy addresses will correspond to the whole set of  2256 private keys. Roughly each address can be accessible through the set of  296  keys.

Ah... sorry, now I get what you mean. Yes, that sounds about right.


To generate all the possible addresses (assuming you never generated the same address twice), it would require you to continue generating addresses for another:
(1.27 X 1028 seconds to generate ALL addresses) / (4.35 X 1017 seconds in the universe) = 29,195,402,299 entire universes worth of time.

Let's not forget though that assuming Moore's Law applies to this hypothetical technology we'd only have about 70 years until computation time will be reduced to a single universe worth of time.

Just sayin'

(70 years of computation power doubling every two years => 2^35 = 34,359,738,368 times the computation power you started with. Yes I'm aware that technically that's neither what Moore's Law states nor how any of this works.)
1200  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Technical Support / Re: Are all BTC addresses really unique? on: November 07, 2019, 08:33:48 PM
That means that each single key may correspond roughly to 2256 / 2160 = 296 addresses, right?

No, it's straight up 2^160 addresses, no need to divide. RIPEMD-160 is used to hash the SHA-256 hash of the corresponding public key [1], reducing the P2PKH address space from a potential 2^256* to 2^160.

*slightly smaller, ECDA's private key space does not cover the full 2^256 [2]


So in fact addresses  are not unique in their nature cuz bunches of them have the same private keys.

There's also P2SH and Bech32 Bitcoin addresses, so any private key corresponds to at least 3 valid Bitcoin addresses.



[1] https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Technical_background_of_version_1_Bitcoin_addresses
[2] https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Private_key

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