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1021  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Insure GUI - create a locked sweeping transaction for life insurance on: July 13, 2020, 12:08:33 AM
A cool project was posted in /r/bitcoin today: https://github.com/lacksfish/insure-gui (original post: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/hpyfjt/ive_built_a_tool_making_it_easy_to_inherit/)

It's an easy way to create a sweeping transaction from a Ledger device that is only valid no sooner than one year from the moment of creation (user can set this parameter). The application then creates a pdf which you can email to your heir.

The main disadvantage is that you have to move the funds to another address of yours to invalidate that sweeping transaction. Any similar projects like this existed before? Thoughts?

That's pretty neat! The concept has been discussed several times before (both on Bitcointalk and on Reddit) as it's probably the most straight forward way to do a dead man's switch in Bitcoin, but it's the first time I see it actually implemented (at least without the necessity of manually creating a raw transaction yourself).


true, but if you are making a 'will' and have the coins in cold storage it's highly likely that you won't spend them.
Everyone needs to spend money to pay for their basic necessities, at a minimum. Those that are most likely to die, those in retirement, will need to spend down the money they intend to pass on to their heirs.

Not that much of an issue if you have separate accounts for daily spending and long term savings. Creating a new "insurance transaction" every few months when you refill your daily spending account doesn't sound that bad.


What alternative do you propose? Leave the private key encrypted with the heir PGP private key somewhere in the house, to be found when you die?

Well, one can always keep their seed phrase in a safe deposit box (made accessible after your death), with a passphrase passed on via a separate channel (e.g. a notary executing your will, separate safe deposit box). Involves third parties which makes it less fun, but maybe more practical while still reasonable secure for most people.


Alternatively -- just to put it out there -- make your last will a scavenger hunt for your seed phrase. Something out of Indiana Jones. Or Saw, depending on how well you like your relatives.
1022  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Nothing is truly decentralized using a centralized ISP on: July 12, 2020, 06:10:35 PM
Yeah, but the Mesh Network is still free, secure and decentralized. The cables are not part of the Mesh Network. Although sharing a common access point to the world wide web the Mesh Network itself is still free, secure and decentralized.

Without access to the rest of the internet a meshnet is reduced to a local area network. Which still has its use cases but is not viable for any global applications such as a cryptocurrency.

Mesh is the obvious path of development to a private, secure decentralized internet development.

In terms of centralization the network infrastructure should be the least of your worries. It's Facebook, Apple, Alphabet etc. and their walled gardens and consolidation of data / content / power that you should worry about. That's where the centralization of the internet, the loss of privacy and sovereignty take place -- on the application level, not the network level.

Don't get me wrong, meshnets are great and I love seeing the many meshnet initiatives around the world. But they too have their limitations and are only a piece of the puzzle.
1023  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Nothing is truly decentralized using a centralized ISP on: July 12, 2020, 01:29:27 PM
If you strive for pure decentralization and autonomy on the network level you can't stop at mesh networks though. Mesh networks still rely on centrally controlled undersea cables and / or satellites to stay globally connected. You'd need physical alternative infrastructure to connect the world's continents.

That being said, running on centralized ISP infrastructure does no harm to the permissionlessness of a cryptocurrency, given that its network requirements are modest enough to reliably work on mesh networks or other alternatives. Put differently, an off-road vehicle being able to drive on regular roads does not make for a lesser off-road vehicle.

Regardless of that there's various efforts by Bitcoiners to circumvent centralized ISPs. There's Bitcoiner's using mesh networks, as mentioned by ETFbitcoin. There's Blockstream satellites (ie. an example of intercontinental physical alternative infrastructure -- run by a centralized entity obviously, but if Blockstream can put Bitcoin satellites into space, so can other private entities). There's even been efforts on Bitcoin transactions via radiowave transmission -- and that's honestly as decentralized as it gets.
1024  Economy / Gambling / Re: SafeDICE.com ★ Bitcoin Dice ★ Monero ★ 0.5% Edge ★ Fast Cashout ★ Since 2014 on: June 29, 2020, 12:37:55 PM
So players with balance here needs to wait and hope for other players to make deposit into this site? It is like hoping others to get the same problem with him imho.

Yes, it's exactly like that. Which is also why apparently there are users trying to goad other users into depositing more coins (see adaseb's post above).

Indeed there are still some players who are playing here but if there are too many complains of withdrawal issue then there will be no more players make deposit sooner/later once most people realize the situation of safedice.
I wonder is there still a chance for safedice owner to come back in the future and solve all withdrawal issue?

Unlikely, the admin has been missing for 1-2 years now. Regardless of that there has been movement on SafeDice's cold storage every few months or so, but it's unclear if that's some automated script refilling the hot wallet or the admin silently siphoning money. Either way I wouldn't get my hopes up. Besides there's plenty of alternatives.
1025  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Who got the 10.000 bitcoins for the 2 pizzas? on: June 29, 2020, 11:50:39 AM
Bitcoin as a currency is meant to be spent. Those 10,000 BTC made it back into the economy fairly quickly, around the time they were worth some $400. A ~10x ROI from simply trading in a different currency is quite good, even if that factor could have been higher had I held on to said currency longer. Naturally there will always be people hoarding coins, trying to get rich, and quite a few people did get quite rich, but they wouldn't have got that way without economic growth allowing it.

Hats off to both laszlo and jercos, that's a spirit we don't see often these days anymore. I wish greed wouldn't have become such a big part of crypto.
1026  Economy / Gambling / Re: SafeDICE.com ★ Bitcoin Dice ★ Monero ★ 0.5% Edge ★ Fast Cashout ★ Since 2014 on: June 28, 2020, 09:12:07 AM
Hey,  I wasnt here to see the warnings

I did played here the last few days and got to withdraw my earnining very quick with no problems.

but the last time ive played was yesterday, and I cant withdraw, its says:

"Something went wrong, hot wallet may be empty please be patient or contact us via email in the FAQ section."

is there any chance to get my money back?  it worked just a few days ago

o

Only if someone else is unfortunate enough to miss the warning and deposits some coins.

Try again in a few days or maybe try smaller amounts and then never turn back, that site is a goner.
1027  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin Name and Logo has registered with Spanish Patent and Trademark Office on: June 23, 2020, 01:13:42 PM
umm there is "bitcoin" name but there is no such thing as a bitcoin logo since bitcoin is not a company to have an official logo. different wallets used different designs by a graphic designer that holds the rights to their design or have published them on public domain which means nobody can claim ownership of them as a trademark or something like that!

In this concrete case they trademarked one of the most commonly used logos:
https://www.tmdn.org/tmview/#/tmview/detail/ES500000004046141

Or as Wikipedia puts it, the "prevailing Bitcoin logo".

No idea how in the living hell they managed to trademark a public domain logo though.

For reference, here's the archived thread with bitboy releasing the above into the public domain in 2010:
https://web.archive.org/web/20131213113233/https://bitcointalk.org/?topic=1756.0

(The thread can still be found on bitcointalk as well, but the image links are dead by now)
1028  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin Name and Logo has registered with Spanish Patent and Trademark Office on: June 23, 2020, 11:56:35 AM
That's... dumb.

"I am not a fake Satoshi, I have just registered the ownership and legitimate use of the logo and the word. If someone uses it incorrectly, I will defend it."

Because we all know that scammers abide by trademark law Roll Eyes

If anything that will make it harder for legit crypto business ventures to take a foothold in Spain.


On a side note they only got class 35 (Advertising, Business and Retail Services) -- so I guess if they are indeed "a bitcoin salesman", which could be seen as financial service, one could still file a trademark for class 36 (Insurance and Financial Services) just to fuck with that guy.


Nonetheless how this trademark got through in the first place is a complete mystery to me.
1029  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Bitcoin, cryptos and the imminent threat of a Quantum Computer on: June 22, 2020, 04:19:49 PM
Processing power of quantum computers may increase more rapidly relative to classical computers but it does not in terms of qbits gained. Quantum computers still need to increase their processing power by a factor of 20-30 before things get interesting.
20 to 30x is only an extra 4 or 5 qubits, though (2^4=16, 2^5=32).

No, I mean literally in terms of qubits. Google latest quantum chip is at 72 qubits (up from 54 qubits last year). The estimates I found on how many qubits are required to break ECDSA are conflicting, but most sources place it at 1500-3000 qubits.


I suppose what I'm trying to say is that it's very difficult to estimate when a QC that is capable of cracking bitcoin might become available, and that we can't use the development history of classical computers as a guideline.  The challenges to building a workable, reliable large-scale QC do remain immense, but we are all aware that work is continuing at pace, and a QC threat to bitcoin may be with us soon than we might envisage. I do think it's important that making bitcoin quantum-safe be considered as a problem to resolve now, rather than at some indefinite point in the future.

Agreed.
1030  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: JPMorgan Says Bitcoin Crash Survival Shows It Has Staying Power on: June 22, 2020, 10:59:43 AM
Those bankers are still in total denial, not willing to accept the cool reality: Bitcoin doesn't care about their opinion!

Those statements are not for Bitcoiners; they are for everyone else. So that later on JP Morgan can say "See, we told you all along that Bitcoin has potential. Come buy your Bitcoin shares from us!"


Bitcoin doesn't care about their opinion,but some Bitcoin users are constantly posting their opinion on this forum. Grin
Can we please stop posting JP Morgan related articles on the forum?The views of their analysts,strategists,traders and bankers have zero value for me,since the FUDster Jamie Dimon was shitting all over Bitcoin years ago.That bank (and all the other banks) cares only about money and profits.They have zero respect towards the blockchain technology and the concept of Bitcoin Core.
Inviting such bank into the cryptocurrency world is like inviting a thief to your birthday party. Grin

Amen to that.
1031  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Bitcoin, cryptos and the imminent threat of a Quantum Computer on: June 22, 2020, 10:41:07 AM
We do need to remember that processing power of quantum computers can increase much more rapidly than we are accustomed to with classical computers.
With each extra bit, a classical computer has more possibilities, but can still only process one at a time.

Processing power of quantum computers may increase more rapidly relative to classical computers but it does not in terms of qbits gained. Quantum computers still need to increase their processing power by a factor of 20-30 before things get interesting.


Did you consider the learning curve and time it will take to train people to program a quantum computer, the time it will take them to code a bitcoin brute-forcer and the time it will take to test it?
I don't think this is an issue. The algorithm already exists. Whilst a classical computer would take an unimaginably huge 2^128 operations to derive a bitcoin private key, with a QC running Shor this becomes a much more manageable 128^3.

That was my first thought as well, but just because the algorithm already exists doesn't mean it's necessarily easy to implement. I do assume development on implementing Shor's algorithm will start as soon as it's computationally possible though.
1032  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Bitcoin, cryptos and the imminent threat of a Quantum Computer on: June 22, 2020, 08:37:30 AM
Did you consider the learning curve and time it will take to train people to program a quantum computer, the time it will take them to code a bitcoin brute-forcer and the time it will take to test it? That gives us a few extra years of leeway, counting from the date that a quantum computer is commissioned for public commercial general-purpose use.

We don't have to wait for QC to be available for the general public to become a threat to Bitcoin's security. It should be considered critical as soon as a single government or corporation has access to a powerful-enough quantum computer.

Remember, Bitcoin's security proposition is that no single entity has the power to compromise it. That goes out the window as soon as the technology becomes available, even with limited access. But luckily even that is still many years out.
1033  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Police Arrest on: June 19, 2020, 05:42:47 PM
Wow, he has stolen 70$ worth of electricity a month.

Crime is a crime and according to crime codes (yгoлoвный кoдeкc - in russian) it has no value. He will just pay an administrative fine of several thousand russian rubles and be free.

So in the end it's just news that gets overblown because crypto was involved. Got it.

To be fair "Local post guy to face mid-sized administrative fees for stealing electricity worth a couple of bucks from their employer in a small town of rural Russia" doesn't have quite the same ring to it.

In other news, a bike got toppled in China. Possible cause of recent Bitcoin price drop? Details at 10.
1034  Economy / Economics / Re: An interesting case of a widespread misconception on: June 19, 2020, 05:32:01 PM
Note that actively betting against Bitcoin requires to have bitcoin to sell in the first place either by (a) having it bought before or by (b) borrowing it in the case of margin trading. In case of (a) that means you can't drag the price down without having it pulled up first; additionally you presumably bet on Bitcoin at least one point in the past. In case of (b) you presumably have a counterparty taking the opposite position.

that's true but things are a lot more complicated than that in the market that we can't say they pulled the price up or down or contributed to it. for example someone who is selling might have bought their coin over the counter which has no effects on the price or could have mined the coins which again has no effects on the rising price. same with margin traders, they may not pull the price down but only provide liquidity for those who want to buy at a certain price but are waiting.

OTC trading still relieves buying / selling pressure, even if it's not visible to the other market participants. I fully agree that margin trading is a wholly different beast though, which is why I chickened out at assessing its market impact.


The (relative) rise of purchasing power is twofold: First, due to the rise in price of course. Second, however, because the rise of wealth in a group of people often leads to goods and services becoming more expensive for those outside this group. Most commonly you'll see this when cities or city districts go through a process of gentrification -- In absolute terms the purchasing power of the disadvantaged group might be unchanged but in relative terms they are pushed down. In a way you could see this as realized opportunity cost

I don't instabuy into this line of reasoning

I agree that it often makes perfect sense in real life circumstances, like having more purchasing power leading to grocery prices rising and thus effectively putting those seemingly uninvolved into the "against" group, as far as the effects are concerned. However, this doesn't mean that the disadvantaged group is the source (cause) of the holders' wealth and the increase in their purchasing power. They can be victims (I agree with this), but they are not the source of their victimhood in the sense it is not through them that the growth in the purchasing power of holders becomes possible. In other words, your "inversion" doesn't work here in the way as it follows from that Reddit post. The same with frugal miners

I wouldn't say that the disadvantaged group is directly the source of the holders' wealth, but purchasing power doesn't exist in a vacuum. If you visit a poorer country than your own the same amount of absolute wealth has increased purchasing power by merit of everyone else being poor alone.

But who am I kidding, that reddit point is close to impossible to hold.
1035  Economy / Economics / Re: An interesting case of a widespread misconception on: June 19, 2020, 04:07:05 PM
No-coiners are not losing their purchasing power because there's none unless and until you liquidate your stash.

That's if you view Bitcoin as a commodity that needs to be liquidated (ie. exchanged into a fiat currency) before using it to spend on goods and services. Since you can use Bitcoin as a currency this line of thinking doesn't fully apply in my opinion. Of course one may argue that someone somewhere down the line will have to exchange Bitcoin into their local fiat currency but then again this applies to international trade with foreign currencies as well.


Okay, you bought your bitcoins cheap and sold them dear, so your purchasing power did in fact rise. However, it rose thanks to someone buying from you and not because of someone who doesn't or didn't have any coins, to begin with.

The (relative) rise of purchasing power is twofold: First, due to the rise in price of course. Second, however, because the rise of wealth in a group of people often leads to goods and services becoming more expensive for those outside this group. Most commonly you'll see this when cities or city districts go through a process of gentrification -- In absolute terms the purchasing power of the disadvantaged group might be unchanged but in relative terms they are pushed down. In a way you could see this as realized opportunity cost.

Now the severity of this secondary effect is of course debatable and will largely depend on each individual situation (ie. how strong your local currency and how wealthy your country is). And its impact is likely limited unless Bitcoin pulls a McAfee for whatever inconceivable reason. However I would not completely dismiss its significance.


Similarly, you can't say that no-coiners are betting against Bitcoin for the simple reason they are not betting at all, either in favor or against it

Depends on whether you want to account for opportunity cost.

As with most things it's a spectrum, with no-coiners being straight in the center, but some lines of thinking necessitate a binary cut (ie. "if you're not with us, you're against us"). Upon inspection this may be a sign of being on the wrong track though.


For example, miners are not buying any bitcoins but they are still selling them. I see you are going to claim that they effectively buy bitcoins by paying for their mining rigs, rent, electricity, whatever, but that would be a faulty logic anyway, even if we accepted this assumption. How come? Because their "purchases" don't contribute to the price growth as they don't "buy" these bitcoins in the open market. Then, you could just assume that by selling their rewards they are in fact betting against Bitcoin, which is the case in real life as their sells do indeed move the price down. It is hard to get around this

Excellent, excellent point. I'd argue that whether their "purchases" contribute to the price growth depends on whether they are holding or instantly selling to cover running costs and then some.

If they hold, they contribute to price growth in that they are literally withholding supply from the open market (and from other miners that instantly sell). I do concur that the majority of miners is likely "betting against Bitcoin", however it'd still be interesting to see what percentage of coins get immediately sold vs held.
1036  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin Maximalist Countries on: June 19, 2020, 11:43:52 AM
I actually find the list of Top Altcoin countries more interesting and wonder about what relevance each Altcoin has to the respective country.

IOTA being large in Germany and Austria makes sense, after all they are based in Germany and have (or had) partnerships with German industry.

DOGE being top in Bangladesh makes sense as well, because of course it is.

With the rest I really do wonder though.


It's not "Bitcoin Maximalist", but "Bitcoin Curiosity" . The percentage is also influenced by whether there's altcoin supporters which actively promote his favorite altcoin with people in his country.

Nevertheless, it's interesting statistics.

Can we please make the term "bitcurious" a thing?
1037  Economy / Economics / Re: An interesting case of a widespread misconception on: June 19, 2020, 11:19:33 AM
Quote
So when bitcoin goes up and people get rich by holding, who pays for that? Those who bet against bitcoin. Completely fair

The point is, those who actively bet against Bitcoin cannot pay for people getting rich by holding because they are actually dragging the price down. Betting against Bitcoin assumes selling it, probably on margin (i.e. without first buying the cryptocurrency). Conversely, it is those buying bitcoins who drive the price up, and through this making holders richer. It is an interesting case because a plausible and convincing explanation is in fact absolutely wrong, and as such could lead to ruinous decisions if taken into consideration without much thought

Depends a bit on how you read it. If you take "those who bet against Bitcoin" as no-coiners they are not entirely wrong. Holding coins in a bull market increases your purchasing power over those that don't, so relatively speaking they lose purchasing power ie. "pay for it".

Note that actively betting against Bitcoin requires to have bitcoin to sell in the first place either by (a) having it bought before or by (b) borrowing it in the case of margin trading. In case of (a) that means you can't drag the price down without having it pulled up first; additionally you presumably bet on Bitcoin at least one point in the past. In case of (b) you presumably have a counterparty taking the opposite position.

So the only move to actually "bet against Bitcoin" is by not participating in the market at all, ie. being a no-coiner as mentioned above. At least in case of (a), in the case of (b) I'm not so sure.



I guess I now ended up arguing in favor of the reddit post, which is not what I intended, since it's still a silly argument. In the end I mostly take issue with the "completely fair" bit that triggered the reddit response in the first place:

Individuals still getting rich doing nothing... where has that wealth come from? How is that fair.

There's no fairness to any of it.

(And I mean, any, not just Bitcoin)

Arguing that "those who bet against bitcoin" are "paying for it" as per the reddit post is just trying to rationalize the inherent randomness of the world. It gives people an illusion of control, an entitlement based on a perceived "fairness" whatever that may be. "If I get rich I must be in the right."

Just accept that sometimes you get lucky and sometimes you don't. Fairness has nothing to do with it.

1038  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Should we invest in a bitcoin exchange? on: June 19, 2020, 10:16:35 AM
Don't. At best, you'll lose 10k. At worst, you'll lose other people's money as well. So yeah, just don't.
1039  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Police Arrest on: June 19, 2020, 10:06:52 AM
Exactly. What was that guy thinking about running an obvious farm without attracting some sort of attention.

I'm not convinced that he's THAT stupid for thinking that no one would notice a mining farm running. It's probably more of that he thinks no one is going to snitch him out, probably because he's a regional post office chief.

Guy probably had his own office, so for all we know he might have simply "hidden" them there. After all according to the wattage it was at most 1-2 rigs running. Additionally that's such a small scale that most people won't bother calling someone out on it, especially if they are their superior. I'm honestly surprised somebody bothered at all.
1040  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Mining Centralization Race on: June 19, 2020, 09:23:53 AM
Seeing some of those names makes me feel weirdly nostalgic.

I liked to visualize data like this. In the beginning, especially before 2012, we can see that mining was more decentralized when miners where "Unknown". I believe this Unknown are more decentralized, probably many small independent miners.

This is not a valid assumption. In bitcoin's early days, Satoshi likely controlled nearly all of bitcoin's mining. As Satoshi's dominance waned, there were likely others who controlled large percentages of total bitcoin mining. This was when there was virtually zero commerce on the blockchain, so this really did not matter. There were probably a small number of entities that controlled large percentages of the total blocks mined when GPU started to be used for mining, and in the early ASIC days.

All that "unknown" means is that your source does not know who was mining the blocks during that time period. It could be a single entity mining all the "unknown" blocks, it could be a different entity for each "unknown" block mined, or it could be (most likely) something in between.

Yeah, I think the large amount of "unknown" is simply because miners and mining pools marking their blocks didn't take off until 2012/2013.

e.g. Look at Slush's pool block history:
https://slushpool.com/stats/blocks/?c=btc

Around page 2895 (Mid January 2011) you'll see that they mined ~10% of all blocks per day. Around March 2011 they were already at ~20%. In the stats Slush's pool doesn't show up until late 2011 / early 2012, so the stats simply show when Slush's pool started marking their blocks rather than their actual hash power.
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