MoneyPot.com :: The bitcoin gambling wallet

[Landplop]

still doesnt make sense

I believe the idea is that a developer creates a game (that has a house edge).  MP basically licenses that game and uses it's house bankroll to bankroll it.  In exchange, MP, the investors in MP, and the creator of the game all split the profit that is generated from the house edge.

In the example given, RHavar forgot to make the bet have a house edge, so the math works out negative for the investor.

Every script is made to win, because of house edge.

[RHavar]

I believe the idea is that a developer creates a game (that has a house edge).  MP basically licenses that game and uses it's house bankroll to bankroll it.  In exchange, MP, the investors in MP, and the creator of the game all split the profit that is generated from the house edge.

In the example given, RHavar forgot to make the bet have a house edge, so the math works out negative for the investor.

That's right, I reworked the example where the numbers this time should add up. The issue was only affecting the example, not the code (which does these calculations properly). Thanks for pointing out the mistake, btw )

[MadeinCoin]

but you have not opened a deposit with Dogecoin,
whether you intend to open ?

[Superhitech]

I saw this:

"The Vault API lets anyone build an app. However, since we just launched, DustDice is our only app so far. Within the coming weeks, we will be helping developers launch more apps, so stay tuned."

Does this mean that there will be a pre-made script to let anyone run their own gambling site?

[RHavar]

but you have not opened a deposit with Dogecoin,
whether you intend to open ?

It's not something we have much desire to support, however we've found shapeshift makes it pretty effortless to convert back and forth from bitcoin.

[RHavar]

Does this mean that there will be a pre-made script to let anyone run their own gambling site?

Well, you could fork dust dice and rebrand it as your own app. We could make this process much smoother if there was some demand. So far DustDice has made 0.11 BTC in risk-free commissions over the last couple of days, so promoted right there could be a business opportunity. =)

[cruisinthrutime]

I think from understanding Googlus's comment, this is a web wallet that allows you to have a gambling balance to split between a play balance and investment balance. You can invest in the moneypot bankroll for the apps that you choose, and easily put a play balance in a gambling app to play without having to wait. This also protects you from unscrupulous website owners that run with your bankroll because the app owners have no access to your investment or play balance.

This is an enticing idea as it adds more security to investments and play balances from loss. Also the audits that ryan spoke of in the FAQ's would be nice for every app. My only concern is can all apps be verified as fair. Can this website not run away with our investment? I loved moneypot and thought eric, then ryan ran/run it with straightforward candor, I hope that it can build a level of trust that can rival just-dice and primedice.

Also Ryan...you need a referral system. Simple suggestion.

[CryForMeSky]

Does this mean that there will be a pre-made script to let anyone run their own gambling site?

Well, you could fork dust dice and rebrand it as your own app. We could make this process much smoother if there was some demand. So far DustDice has made 0.11 BTC in risk-free commissions over the last couple of days, so promoted right there could be a business opportunity. =)

Vault is an interesting concept, I'm sure people with the tools to make their own game will find it massively useful as it provides the hardest part of the puzzle for someone starting out in e-gaming (the bankroll).  It's interesting to me personally, as I have plenty of profitable ideas and years of experience in e-gaming promo work...but I don't know a lick of code.  So I'd have to find a coder that I trust, have them build it, and then split all profits four ways (me, the person doing the code work, investors, and RH).  Doesn't seem that profitable.  Then of course there are questions like if I run a leaderboard promo, where does that money come out of?  House BR?  My pocket?  Split two ways?  There are a bunch of questions, but I'm sure that people much smarter than I can use this service to jump start their projects.

[Superhitech]

Does this mean that there will be a pre-made script to let anyone run their own gambling site?

Well, you could fork dust dice and rebrand it as your own app. We could make this process much smoother if there was some demand. So far DustDice has made 0.11 BTC in risk-free commissions over the last couple of days, so promoted right there could be a business opportunity. =)

Vault is an interesting concept, I'm sure people with the tools to make their own game will find it massively useful as it provides the hardest part of the puzzle for someone starting out in e-gaming (the bankroll).  It's interesting to me personally, as I have plenty of profitable ideas and years of experience in e-gaming promo work...but I don't know a lick of code.  So I'd have to find a coder that I trust, have them build it, and then split all profits four ways (me, the person doing the code work, investors, and RH).  Doesn't seem that profitable.  Then of course there are questions like if I run a leaderboard promo, where does that money come out of?  House BR?  My pocket?  Split two ways?  There are a bunch of questions, but I'm sure that people much smarter than I can use this service to jump start their projects.

Well I guess that you could use vault as a start-up, when you start, you don't have a bankroll, so you use vault to fund your site's bankroll. Then, if your site manages to make profit, you can migrate your site away from vault and fund it yourself, so you don't have to split the profits. But staying with vault gives your free advertising, in a way.

Approximately when will the API come out?

[RHavar]

Approximately when will the API come out?

The API is already out, we're just in the process of documenting it. If you check out toydice and view source, you'll find a very minimal and simple walkthrough of how to create a casino with just a handful of jquery

[RHavar]

Well I guess that you could use vault as a start-up, when you start, you don't have a bankroll, so you use vault to fund your site's bankroll. Then, if your site manages to make profit, you can migrate your site away from vault and fund it yourself, so you don't have to split the profits. But staying with vault gives your free advertising, in a way.

We hope to provide a lot more utility to a casino than just a bankroll: a unified login system, 0-conf deposits, chat servers, security and what not. If a 50-50 profit share ever seems burdensome, we'd be happy to negotiate that down =)

Vault is an interesting concept, I'm sure people with the tools to make their own game will find it massively useful as it provides the hardest part of the puzzle for someone starting out in e-gaming (the bankroll).

Thanks, I really hope so.

 It's interesting to me personally, as I have plenty of profitable ideas and years of experience in e-gaming promo work...but I don't know a lick of code.  So I'd have to find a coder that I trust, have them build it and then split all profits four ways (me, the person doing the code work, investors, and RH).

It's not as bad as it seems. All coders I've dealt with, want a fixed amount. The investors don't ask for much, and provide you an extremely useful service (they eat the variance in exchange for a fee). So really, it's mainly just a 50-50 profit share between Vault and yourself, which isn't terrible considering just the security stuff, maths and bitcoin stuff easily took us and established team 3 months to properly build.

Then of course there are questions like if I run a leaderboard promo, where does that money come out of?  House BR?  My pocket?  Split two ways?  There are a bunch of questions, but I'm sure that people much smarter than I can use this service to jump start their projects.

It really needs to come out of your pocket, although we're pretty reasonable and depending how attractive it looked would be willing to split the costs of promotion 50-50 with you, or at the very least apply a credit to our commissions so that you get 100% of your earnings until you're at least profitable

[RHavar]

I think from understanding Googlus's comment, this is a web wallet that allows you to have a gambling balance to split between a play balance and investment balance. You can invest in the moneypot bankroll for the apps that you choose, and easily put a play balance in a gambling app to play without having to wait. This also protects you from unscrupulous website owners that run with your bankroll because the app owners have no access to your investment or play balance.

That's right! Even malicious apps have no access to your invested money, or balance. They can only spend what you give them.

This is an enticing idea as it adds more security to investments and play balances from loss. Also the audits that ryan spoke of in the FAQ's would be nice for every app. My only concern is can all apps be verified as fair.

We guarantee every bet is fair (as in, the outcome is not tampered with), but have no way of knowing if it's the bet you wanted to make. You can protect yourself by limiting the amount of money you put in each app, and making sure there's no strange bets

Can this website not run away with our investment? I loved moneypot and thought eric, then ryan ran/run it with straightforward candor, I hope that it can build a level of trust that can rival just-dice and primedice.

There's no technical measures that stop me from running away with your investments/balances, but I can (and do) prove that I'm solvent, and I'm happy escrowing and verifying personal details so that no one thinks it's a simple exit-scam. But if I was trying to scam you, these are the exact things I'd be saying (including this very disclaimer) so I highly recommend you keep the bulk of your money yourself, in something like a hardware wallet. We'll both sleep better that way. =)

[CryForMeSky]

All coders I've dealt with, want a fixed amount. The investors don't ask for much, and provide you an extremely useful service (they eat the variance in exchange for a fee). So really, it's mainly just a 50-50 profit share between Vault and yourself, which isn't terrible considering just the security stuff, maths and bitcoin stuff easily took us and established team 3 months to properly build.

Interesting.  Maybe I'll take some time this week and get my thoughts together and price out some work.  The only place I've ever heard of to hire coders is rentacoder...would you say that would be a good place to look or are there better options that I'm in the dark about?

[dooglus]

As I understand it, one of the selling points of MoneyPot is that the gambling sites you deposit to using it never get access to the coins you deposit unless you lose them, and so players don't need to trust new gambling sites which use MoneyPot, they only need to trust you.

That is one of the design goals of MoneyPot.

An app can only access its app balance (which can instantly be refilled, and maintains a complete audit history), but there are no restrictions of what the app can do with that balance. This is something with time we were thinking about re-adding. Your app balance always lives on MoneyPot.com, so you can at anytime revoke permissions to the app or pull money from the app balance.

As the player loses coins on a MoneyPot-linked gambling site the player's balance (at MoneyPot) is debited and the site's balance (at MoneyPot) is credited. To get their coins the gambling site requests a withdrawal from their MoneyPot account.

Did I get that right?

That is correct

So I'm still a little confused.

Suppose one of your app owners goes rogue. I have authorised them to take 1000 bits of my moneypot balance, but I never place a bet on the rogue site. Can the rogue app just take my 1000 bits? Or would they have to make API calls to the moneypot provably fair betting system until 'I' lost those 1000 bits?

I initially thought you were ensuring fair play by only allowing them to take from my balance when I lost some bets. But now it sounds as if they can take and keep whatever I authorise them access to which kind of removes one of the key advantages of moneypot (protection from rogue new app just stealing player balances).

Your "we were thinking about re-adding" confused me. What did you un-add and why?

[elm]

@RHavar

We guarantee every bet is fair (as in, the outcome is not tampered with), but have no way of knowing if it's the bet you wanted to make. You can protect yourself by limiting the amount of money you put in each app, and making sure there's no strange bets

what are strange bets?  I understood that MP is taking care that the app owner =OP will not cheat the investors

[leen93]

when i invested 0.01 bit was just gone 
and not any bet was made
seems not only your description of investments sucks but you are also just stealing people's money?

[leen93]

Site Bankroll: 22,487,123.85 bits
Wagered against bankroll: 51,801,251 bits
Investor Profit: -737,615.82 bits
Your stake: < 0.01 %
Your amount: 99,999.98 bits

this investment is not < 0,01%

everything is just wrong on this website 

[faince222]

Yes but what is the sense of a bitcoin gambling wallet? Why I have to use it when I can use a common wallet?

[arallmuus]

Yes but what is the sense of a bitcoin gambling wallet? Why I have to use it when I can use a common wallet?

If you take time to check the site and read the post, you will actually know why is that the vault is better than common wallet for gambling purposes, In short, I find this will be the best explanation of how it works for everyone else, it actually help you to be safer from a new gambling sites that might steal your balance after you deposit on it

As I understand it, one of the selling points of MoneyPot is that the gambling sites you deposit to using it never get access to the coins you deposit unless you lose them, and so players don't need to trust new gambling sites which use MoneyPot, they only need to trust you. As the player loses coins on a MoneyPot-linked gambling site the player's balance (at MoneyPot) is debited and the site's balance (at MoneyPot) is credited. To get their coins the gambling site requests a withdrawal from their MoneyPot account.

[RHavar]

please explain this because like this it's surely a negative EV and you are just betraying other people. there is no reason to not charge a normal commision (under the expected EV of the game) like every other dice website does

The investors will never be given a bet that is -EV, as it's a requirement that it is "acceptable" as per the kelly criterion. The reason we don't charge a normally commission, is because imagine there are two MoneyPot casinos, one who offers a game of 1% house edge dice and another offers keno, with a 20% house edge.

 From the investors perspective it doesn't matter what game people are playing, but from the casinos perspective it's huge. The keno game should expect its players to run out of money 20x faster, and have much more trouble getting customers. If we gave that huge edge to the investors, the business would be unviable for the keno casino and they wouldn't be able to use MoneyPot. So the way it works, is use the extra money to pay the casino rather than the investors. But the important thing is investors still get a good deal, they just get the worst good deal.

We hope this translates into more bankroll turnover, which should makeup for it.