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Author Topic: **MANDATORY UPGRADE REQUIRED** [ANN] B&C Exchange - All users must upgrade  (Read 168919 times)
BCExchange
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April 29, 2015, 09:34:08 PM
 #101

Sunny King, creator of Peercoin, mentions B&C Exchange in his weekly update to the Peercoin community: https://www.peercointalk.org/index.php?topic=4096.msg39107#new
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April 30, 2015, 12:57:10 AM
 #102

Just a suggestion to the OP. Maybe you could shorten the title to keep an updated countdown in there, so everyone that hasn't visited the thread knows how many days are left to place a bid. For example, the shortened version below will fit in there. I just removed the word exchange, since it's already featured twice...

[ANN] B&C - A decentralized exchange that can earn you Bitcoin! - 13 days left
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April 30, 2015, 01:01:59 AM
 #103

Just a suggestion to the OP. Maybe you could shorten the title to keep an updated countdown in there, so everyone that hasn't visited the thread knows how many days are left to place a bid. For example, the shortened version below will fit in there. I just removed the word exchange, since it's already featured twice...

[ANN] B&C - A decentralized exchange that can earn you Bitcoin! - 13 days left

Excellent suggestion, but Bitcointalk unfortunately restricts the length of titles to what we currently have. We will remove the "Bitcoin dividend" part and add a countdown timer in the last 7 days of the auction, once we're confident that a majority of readers are aware of the Bitcoin dividend feature.
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April 30, 2015, 01:45:50 AM
 #104


Your assessment is correct, yes. We would also add that Polvos would only sell his BKC on an approved exchange(s) as outlined in the terms of his custodial agreement with shareholders, and so not necessarily just any exchange that supports BKC.

Tks for clarifying.
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April 30, 2015, 01:47:35 AM
 #105

I dont quite follow/grok this offer mechanism

am I biding for nushare that then some how (my priv key of something) allows me control of my blockshares


if I bid for a block share and I out bid some one we can still both get the blockshare if the person who I outbidded outbidded another person and there were blockshares left.....

so some people could massively pay more than others for blockshares....

is this right?

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April 30, 2015, 01:57:33 AM
 #106

Also I thought this would need a ANN in the alts? As this is where you may attract a bit more capital.

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April 30, 2015, 02:01:12 AM
 #107

Also I thought this would need a ANN in the alts? As this is where you may attract a bit more capital.

It's not an altcoin though. It's a decentralized exchange which pays out Bitcoin dividends.

but Bitcointalk unfortunately restricts the length of titles to what we currently have.

Check the title of my post here. I shortened it and the title fits along with the countdown.
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April 30, 2015, 02:23:52 AM
 #108

Can the BlockShare holders get dividends in thier lightweight BTC wallets? Peershares export private keys to the Peercoin satoshi wallet. I hope the BlockShare shareholders don't have to have updated BTC satoshi wallet with its monster size blockchain.

BTC 1HxvAEC4nj37hyenz9DwsyrMMnkwzpbzno PPC PU6zS8RRBWP2UxhuRFengGsu8n4tEYB5xV XPM AJAgBpPjGQoL38mrtW91dVqhbMHqu25vfG
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April 30, 2015, 04:25:58 AM
 #109

I dont quite follow/grok this offer mechanism

am I biding for nushare that then some how (my priv key of something) allows me control of my blockshares

Yes, your understanding is correct. Right now there is no B&C Exchange blockchain, and no BlockShares exist. NuShares do exist, however. You are bidding for NuShares. The proceeds from the auction will be used to create the protocol and user interface for B&C Exchange. When that is complete, the B&C Exchange blockchain will be created as a fork of the NuShare/NuBit blockchain. At the moment the B&C Exchange blockchain is created it will have the exact same shareholders as the NuShare/NuBit blockchain. The B&C Exchange client will allow you to select your NuShare wallet and convert it to a BlockShare wallet.

So, you bid for NuShares in the most immediate sense, but you will also receive an equivalent number of BlockShares if you keep your NuShares until the fork.

I realize most would prefer just receiving BlockShares, but doing this presents a number of problems. We could just sell the promise of receiving BlockShares months in the future when development is complete. This requires more trust than any other alternative and it makes your position completely illiquid until development is complete. We could create BlockShares on a brand new Peershare blockchain that doesn't yet have any of the features of B&C Exchange and immediately transfer those to successful auction bidders. This keeps your position liquid but it makes development more risky and expensive, because it would require updating a production blockchain protecting value with major protocol changes. Also, owning BlockShares will not be a passive investment. It requires that shareholders choosing to mint blocks constantly update their votes or subscribe to the data feed of someone they choose to trust to dynamically configure their vote. There is a risk that new shareholders who have never owned NuShares won't take care to configure their vote either manually or automatically. However, more than 90% of NuShare blocks have their vote actively configured. So, bringing in established NuShare holders ensures that the majority of minters will proactively configure their vote to adapt the network to changing conditions, which is absolutely essential for the success of B&C Exchange.

if I bid for a block share and I out bid some one we can still both get the blockshare if the person who I outbidded outbidded another person and there were blockshares left.....

so some people could massively pay more than others for blockshares....

is this right?

The price you pay is the price you bid.

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April 30, 2015, 04:52:04 AM
 #110

Also I thought this would need a ANN in the alts? As this is where you may attract a bit more capital.

We've created a separate post in the altcoin forum to ask bitcointalk users which altcoins should be supported on B&C Exchange. It will help us with determining which cryptocurrencies to support at launch, as well as help increase our exposure. Thank you for the suggestion jubalix.

Link: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1042953.msg11240439#new
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April 30, 2015, 05:21:43 AM
 #111

I've finally finished going through the design document and this thread and I have some questions.

1. It is mentioned that the signers will receive a block reward for the service they are carrying out. Does this mean that regular Blockshare holders who are minting will be slightly more diluted by the signers, who receive an extra reward?

2. Also, the signers need to give up a security deposit of Blockshares. If the signer no longer has control of these blockshares, will the person holding the security deposits continue to mint with them using a data feed, or will they not be minted with and the signer loses the minting reward from these held shares? If not, I think that is counter-productive, unless being a signer gives them a much larger reward than simply minting the usual way.

3. I want to make sure I understand the Blockcredit system. So shareholders will select a trustworthy custodian and vote to supply them with Blockcredits. That person will then place a sell wall at $1 on any approved exchange. The non-Bitcoin proceeds from selling these credits will be used to purchase Bitcoin. The Bitcoin will then be distributed back to shareholders as payment for providing this exchange network service.

Digging further, these Blockcredits are the only way to actually use the decentralized exchange. If you don't purchase credits then you can't trade. So let's say somebody purchases credits from a custodian. They place trades on B&C until they run out of credits and need to purchase more. In the act of trading, these Blockcredits are actually consumed or destroyed by the system, so that they no longer exist and cannot be used again. This means that as long as customers are using the B&C exchange, there will always be a constantly dwindling supply of Blockcredits. If no more Blockcredits were created by shareholders, the supply would eventually run to zero, as they're all used up trading.

If the market ever got too flooded with Blockcredits, which caused the price of the credits to drop below $1, the custodians would just need to wait and keep their sell wall in place. Everyone buying Blockcredits under $1 would be getting a great deal. Eventually though, as long as the custodian waited long enough, the Blockcredit supply would start getting lower and lower as people buy them to use on the exchange (thus getting destroyed in the process). The supply would get low enough that the price would start rising back to $1, but it would never be able to surpass it because of the sell wall in place. The shareholders would need to constantly resupply the custodians as credits are consumed in the system and the supply runs lower.

Do I understand this system correctly? If so, I think it's brilliant. I can already picture other ways to apply a credit system like this in other Peershare DAOs. There are many possible applications for this and we should develop them before others do.
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April 30, 2015, 08:13:15 AM
 #112

I have a few additional questions, if you do not mind.

- Is BCExchange part of the Nu team or is he or she a new contributor?
- What is more important? The number of confirmations required by blockchain ID or the number of total reputed signers of deposit addresses of blockchain ID required by B&C, protocol wise?
- Let us say that the system requires 8 signers for each transaction to be valid. What happens if the pool of available signers contains at the time of the tx only 3?
- Why "+2" in "...Verification must be received from enough signers to accomplish the appropriate transfers from deposit addresses plus two signers to be valid."? Why not "+0"?
- Do you have a concrete, feasible idea about how B&C would be able to help regarding solving the biggest issue of NuBits (at least from my perspective): the loss of funds incurred by LPCS on NBT/BTC because of BTC volatility? Since FIAT cannot be handled per se in the system, NBT would be exposed to BTC volatility for sure.
See the following link (https://discuss.nubits.com/t/on-the-profitability-of-liquidity-provision/2007) if you would like to get some more context.
- If the trade fees in credits a percentage of the exchanged quantity or is it a fixed fee regardless of the quantity?

Tks!
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April 30, 2015, 12:14:22 PM
 #113

Interesting, crypto needs more profit-sharing projects.
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April 30, 2015, 04:40:30 PM
 #114

1. It is mentioned that the signers will receive a block reward for the service they are carrying out. Does this mean that regular Blockshare holders who are minting will be slightly more diluted by the signers, who receive an extra reward?

Signers will receive a separate reward from minters, yes. You bring up an important point, that minters and signers are separate concepts:

Quote
Minting nodes are such because they have BlockShares eligible for minting. Reputed signing nodes are such because they are capable of signing transactions on deposit addresses. A client may be neither a minting nor signing node, one or the other, or both. Furthermore, being a signing node will only be in reference to a specific non-native blockchain. So, a particular node may a Bitcoin signing node, but not a Peercoin signing node, while another node may play the role of a Bitcoin signing node, Peercoin signing node and minter.

2. Also, the signers need to give up a security deposit of Blockshares. If the signer no longer has control of these blockshares, will the person holding the security deposits continue to mint with them using a data feed, or will they not be minted with and the signer loses the minting reward from these held shares? If not, I think that is counter-productive, unless being a signer gives them a much larger reward than simply minting the usual way.

Shareholders will be able to voice their opinions through motions about how security deposits can be used, but yes it is safe to say that signers should not be punished for performing a valuable service for the network. We will expand further on this issue soon.

3. I want to make sure I understand the Blockcredit system. So shareholders will select a trustworthy custodian and vote to supply them with Blockcredits. That person will then place a sell wall at $1 on any approved exchange. The non-Bitcoin proceeds from selling these credits will be used to purchase Bitcoin. The Bitcoin will then be distributed back to shareholders as payment for providing this exchange network service.

Digging further, these Blockcredits are the only way to actually use the decentralized exchange. If you don't purchase credits then you can't trade. So let's say somebody purchases credits from a custodian. They place trades on B&C until they run out of credits and need to purchase more. In the act of trading, these Blockcredits are actually consumed or destroyed by the system, so that they no longer exist and cannot be used again. This means that as long as customers are using the B&C exchange, there will always be a constantly dwindling supply of Blockcredits. If no more Blockcredits were created by shareholders, the supply would eventually run to zero, as they're all used up trading.

If the market ever got too flooded with Blockcredits, which caused the price of the credits to drop below $1, the custodians would just need to wait and keep their sell wall in place. Everyone buying Blockcredits under $1 would be getting a great deal. Eventually though, as long as the custodian waited long enough, the Blockcredit supply would start getting lower and lower as people buy them to use on the exchange (thus getting destroyed in the process). The supply would get low enough that the price would start rising back to $1, but it would never be able to surpass it because of the sell wall in place. The shareholders would need to constantly resupply the custodians as credits are consumed in the system and the supply runs lower.

Do I understand this system correctly? If so, I think it's brilliant. I can already picture other ways to apply a credit system like this in other Peershare DAOs. There are many possible applications for this and we should develop them before others do.

Yes you have described B&C Exchange's business model very accurately, thank you for summarizing it so well. We are very enthusiastic about its simplicity, safety, and potential profitability.
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April 30, 2015, 04:46:36 PM
 #115

Interesting, crypto needs more profit-sharing projects.

We agree. With BlockShares, there will be a genuine financial incentive to hold them beyond hopeful speculation - the prospect of future Bitcoin dividends being paid directly to shareholders. 
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April 30, 2015, 11:18:05 PM
 #116

In the other thread, I noticed people were just listing names of coins they support. I don't believe that will get us any important information, so I made this post...

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1042953.msg11248387#msg11248387

If you agree, can you please add it to the first post of that thread so it will be one of the first things people read? I'm simply not interested in knowing which community has the largest amount of vocal supporters.
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April 30, 2015, 11:47:24 PM
 #117

In the other thread, I noticed people were just listing names of coins they support. I don't believe that will get us any important information, so I made this post...

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1042953.msg11248387#msg11248387

If you agree, can you please add it to the first post of that thread so it will be one of the first things people read? I'm simply not interested in knowing which community has the largest amount of vocal supporters.

We're interested in sparking friendly discussion among the bitcointalk community about our project, not forcing users to present detailed breakdowns of their favorite cryptocurrency's merits. Your post may be perceived as unfriendly and unwelcoming, which is the opposite of what we want B&C Exchange to be.
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April 30, 2015, 11:57:59 PM
 #118

In the other thread, I noticed people were just listing names of coins they support. I don't believe that will get us any important information, so I made this post...

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1042953.msg11248387#msg11248387

If you agree, can you please add it to the first post of that thread so it will be one of the first things people read? I'm simply not interested in knowing which community has the largest amount of vocal supporters.

We're interested in sparking friendly discussion among the bitcointalk community about our project, not forcing users to present detailed breakdowns of their favorite cryptocurrency's merits. Your post may be perceived as unfriendly and unwelcoming, which is the opposite of what we want B&C Exchange to be.

That's at least the information I want to know, but in the context of that thread's purpose I believe you're correct, so I've deleted my post.
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May 01, 2015, 12:01:43 AM
 #119

There are now 12 days left in the auction. Thank you to everyone who has submitted a bid so far. If you are planning on bidding, please submit it as early as possible to ensure that you are given priority in the event of a tie bid.

The quality of questions and discussions in this thread has been fantastic so far. We appreciate everyone's interest in making B&C Exchange a reality.
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May 01, 2015, 12:49:58 AM
 #120

Do we get an email confirmation if the bid is valid or not?
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