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Author Topic: **MANDATORY UPGRADE REQUIRED** [ANN] B&C Exchange - All users must upgrade  (Read 172865 times)
Bisha
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May 26, 2015, 03:23:27 PM
 #301

Have you thought about DPOS to fund the development?

Can you say a little more about how DPOS could fund development please? I am aware that refers to BitShare's delegated proof of stake mechanism. I understand that each delegate receives some compensation, but it is unclear to me how that would aid development.

As an aside, DPOS is a mechanism that improves scalability at the cost of a modest degree of centralization. Its scalability improvements are only useful in networks with considerably more transactions than Bitcoin processes currently (~100,000 per day). B&C will not employ DPOS initially to keep transaction processing more decentralized and flexible, but it is an option to increase scalablilty long term.

I agree with you that at the beginning it would end up being more centralized than desired given the few transactions and a large number of delegates wouldn't be useful as funds would be too distributed for them to play a significant role in develipment and in the other hand, a smaller amount of Delegates could increase centralization. Haven't thought about it that way, but I guess that wouldn't be useful to get things rolling as it could be difficult to finds a balance but maybe a bit of logistic could give us the answer.

I only mentioned it because I see some similarities with Delegates and Custodians so I would guess the degree of centralization (distribution would be more appropriate maybe?) would be the same. I understand, you have a cap on the number of delegates and wouldn't have on custodians if i'm not mistaken, however, you could possibly increase the number of delegates in the future. I'm not a technical guy and Nubits could even have nothing to do with B&C, but given the similarities I thought I would ask about it.

Thanks for the reply


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JordanLee
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May 27, 2015, 03:55:18 AM
 #302

Yurizhai asks:   

Quote from: Yurizhai
So, "immediately" - is development officially underway?

There are just a few issues that need to resolved for our Nu 2.0 release, particularly issue 167, 181, 188 and 199. When those are resolved, development will begin in earnest. The first iteration will consist of forking the Nu production blockchain into a testnet B&C Exchange blockchain. The next iteration will consist of the new voting types for B&C Exchange. The third iteration will focus on the first two or three messages unique to the B&C, such as the pairing of a BKS and BKC address and deposit public key lists. We will keep implementing new messages in the approximate order they would be used in until they are all done (so order fills will be done last).

Bitmessage: BM-2cXS5ezep1jUqeu8CwC6M4aTmMSxcFEHNN
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May 27, 2015, 04:08:03 AM
 #303

I only mentioned it because I see some similarities with Delegates and Custodians so I would guess the degree of centralization (distribution would be more appropriate maybe?) would be the same. I understand, you have a cap on the number of delegates and wouldn't have on custodians if i'm not mistaken, however, you could possibly increase the number of delegates in the future. I'm not a technical guy and Nubits could even have nothing to do with B&C, but given the similarities I thought I would ask about it.

B&C Exchange doesn't use delegates, but we will use custodians. Custodians are entities that receive either BlockCredits or BlockShares by direct shareholder vote on the blockchain. This is an established and proven technology that will be inherited from the Nu network. Custodians who receive BlockCredits from shareholders are expected to receive them for the purpose of selling them for $1 and distributing the sale proceeds to shareholders via the Bitcoin dividend mechanism that is being inherited from the Peershare template.

BlockShares will be granted to custodians by direct shareholder blockchain vote, typically to fund development or marketing. Custodial grants are a mature technology proven in Nu to be flexible and secure in funding whatever endeavors shareholders agree are beneficial.

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May 27, 2015, 08:21:35 AM
 #304

I'm not sure I understand the situation at the moment. If I made a bid last time, do I still need to resubmit a bid now? Do I still get to keep my bid in the same price bracket?
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May 27, 2015, 10:46:09 AM
 #305

I only mentioned it because I see some similarities with Delegates and Custodians so I would guess the degree of centralization (distribution would be more appropriate maybe?) would be the same. I understand, you have a cap on the number of delegates and wouldn't have on custodians if i'm not mistaken, however, you could possibly increase the number of delegates in the future. I'm not a technical guy and Nubits could even have nothing to do with B&C, but given the similarities I thought I would ask about it.

B&C Exchange doesn't use delegates, but we will use custodians. Custodians are entities that receive either BlockCredits or BlockShares by direct shareholder vote on the blockchain. This is an established and proven technology that will be inherited from the Nu network. Custodians who receive BlockCredits from shareholders are expected to receive them for the purpose of selling them for $1 and distributing the sale proceeds to shareholders via the Bitcoin dividend mechanism that is being inherited from the Peershare template.

BlockShares will be granted to custodians by direct shareholder blockchain vote, typically to fund development or marketing. Custodial grants are a mature technology proven in Nu to be flexible and secure in funding whatever endeavors shareholders agree are beneficial.

Exactly, meaning in both cases you need to trust third parties. Hence the similarities.

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Yurizhai
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May 27, 2015, 02:46:57 PM
 #306

I'm not sure I understand the situation at the moment. If I made a bid last time, do I still need to resubmit a bid now? Do I still get to keep my bid in the same price bracket?

You do not need to resubmit a bid. You are going to get more BKS for the same bid you made earlier, but the amount of total BKS has been increased meaning the percentage of shares you own remains the same. Essentially, nothing has changed.
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May 28, 2015, 02:22:06 PM
 #307

Total funds committed have reached $147,643 including seed funds. We are now 73% of the way to our goal of $200,000.
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May 28, 2015, 02:38:00 PM
 #308

In response to some private messages we have received, we can confirm that we intend for B&C Exchange to trade both cryptocurrencies and cryptoequities if the demand exists.

Cryptoequity (decentralized shares in organizations or projects) trading is an excellent fit for the initial architecture of B&C Exchange because trades settle quickly within minutes. This is in contrast to traditional equity which can take 24 hours or more to transfer ownership. B&C Exchange will be well-suited to act as a decentralized stock exchange in addition to its focus on cryptocurrency trading. BlockShares and NuShares will be two cryptoequities that are initially supported, in addition to others.
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May 28, 2015, 08:01:29 PM
 #309

From Hibero:

Quote from: Hibero
I would like to point out that I believe there is a mistake in the matrix.

Upon further review, Hibero is absolutely correct. Our table had a formatting error that led to an incorrect price being displayed.

For clarification, the current price is still $4.00. Approximately 16,805 BKS have been bid for in the first tier, leaving several thousand remaining at that price. Anyone who has received confirmation from us at $4.08 per BKS will now only need to pay $4.00 per BKS. Our apologies for the confusion. The original announcement has been updated accordingly.
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May 29, 2015, 03:26:51 AM
 #310

If at the end of Second-round fund raising B&C gets $120k but didn't sell all 80,750 shares, what will happen to the left-over shares?

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BCExchange
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May 29, 2015, 04:59:02 AM
 #311

If at the end of Second-round fund raising B&C gets $120k but didn't sell all 80,750 shares, what will happen to the left-over shares?

If we meet our $200,000 fundraising goal and the blockchain is launched, shareholders can dictate what occurs with any currently undistributed BlockShares by casting a voting motion through the network.

The default decision will be to continue selling BlockShares until all ~80,750 shares are sold, in order to generate a healthy development fund for B&C Exchange. However, BlockShareholders could also vote to burn all undistributed shares at any point in time. This would increase each BlockShareholder's percentage of equity in the network, but decrease the amount of development funds available to improve the exchange beyond its minimum implementation. Should this occur, BlockShareholders could always vote for future custodial grants of new BlockShares to fund further development when they think it is needed.

BlockShares will provide its users with full control of B&C Exchange's operations and equity structure. Each BlockShareholder will essentially act as a decentralized manager of B&C Exchange.
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May 29, 2015, 07:11:55 PM
 #312

BlockShareholders could always vote for future custodial grants of new BlockShares to fund further development when they think it is needed.

As an alternative, BlockShareholders could pass motions which instruct custodians who are selling credits on exchanges to hold the profits rather than distribute them as dividends. These profits could then be redirected to pay for development. It's possible that in the very beginning though that we wouldn't have enough profit to rely on spending only what came in. If that was the case then yes, shareholders could issue new BlockShares and sell them to raise funds. Later on though once the exchange is more profitable, shareholders could then instruct custodians to use the profits generated from credit sales to purchase BlockShares and burn them, thereby reducing the supply again. Share buybacks like this occur in the real world businesses and B&C will allow shareholders to simulate it.
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May 29, 2015, 07:59:33 PM
 #313

As an alternative, BlockShareholders could pass motions which instruct custodians who are selling credits on exchanges to hold the profits rather than distribute them as dividends. These profits could then be redirected to pay for development.

It should be noted that this would be contrary to the intent of our design document:

Quote
Care should be taken not to approve custodial grants of BlockCredits for any purpose other than sale and subsequent dividend distribution. If grants of BlockCredits were used to fund development or other expenses, the sale of BlockCredits by developers as they cash out to local currency might outpace the demand for BlockCredits at times and distort the sale price. Instead, development should be funded with BlockShares.

Your example is slightly different, but it would still introduce needless complexity. We want our marketing message to prospective investors to be as simple as possible: if you purchase BlockShares, you can earn Bitcoin dividends from the sale of $1.00 BlockCredits.

So, in our opinion revenue earned from the sale of BlockCredits should only be distributed to shareholders as dividends. These dividends will significantly enhance the public perception and market value of BlockShares. A higher market capitalization means that a lower amount of share dilution would be required to fund any necessary future development, if shareholders chose to pursue that outcome.

Of course, as the design document also says:

Quote
While this is our opinion about the best use of BlockCredits, it should be noted that the protocol permits shareholders to grant BlockCredits as they see fit. As with all Peershares implementations, shareholders will have their way and no one is in a position to promise how they will behave in the future.
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May 29, 2015, 08:16:30 PM
 #314

Total funds committed have reached $151,369 including seed funds. We are now over 75% of the way to our goal of $200,000!
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May 29, 2015, 08:28:23 PM
 #315

Total funds committed have reached $151,369 including seed funds. We are now over 75% of the way to our goal of $200,000!

Nice!
25% to go Cheesy
Sentinelrv
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May 29, 2015, 11:26:08 PM
 #316

So, in our opinion revenue earned from the sale of BlockCredits should only be distributed to shareholders as dividends. These dividends will significantly enhance the public perception and market value of BlockShares. A higher market capitalization means that a lower amount of share dilution would be required to fund any necessary future development, if shareholders chose to pursue that outcome.

I agree that holding profits for a certain length of time in order to fund development could temporarily negatively affect the market cap of BlockShares. Consistent dividends would help ensure that the price per BlockShare stays above a certain level, which would make raising funds through BlockShare sales easier. Still, I wonder how regular of an occurence fundraising for development will be. If it happens regularly, then shareholders would need to continue purchasing more shares in order to keep up with the dilution. B&C seems like it will be in a more complete state than Nu was when it originally released, which leads me to believe new development wouldn't be a regular occurence. If it was though, are there any cases for share buybacks and burns that you can see, or do you imagine shareholders allowing the supply to continually increase?
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May 31, 2015, 05:42:56 PM
 #317

B&C seems like it will be in a more complete state than Nu was when it originally released, which leads me to believe new development wouldn't be a regular occurence. If it was though, are there any cases for share buybacks and burns that you can see, or do you imagine shareholders allowing the supply to continually increase?

It will be certainly interesting to see what BlockShareholders decide to do. Perhaps development is funded continually, or perhaps development isn't funded at all beyond the minimum state. Likewise, shareholders may choose to distribute dividends with revenues earned, or they may choose to use those funds to purchase shares on the open market and burn them to decrease the total BKS supply.

BlockShareholders have the final say in any of these decisions and we can't predict what they will choose. What is certain is that the decision they make will be the one they believe maximizes the value of their BlockShares.
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May 31, 2015, 05:45:32 PM
 #318

There are several BlockShare pledges that are now just over 24 hours old and haven't been responded to. Some of these pledges are not properly formed so a dialog will be needed with the purchaser to finalize them. It is the first time we haven't been able to provide a response within 24 hours, but these pledges will be responded to in the next day. Thank you everyone for your patience.
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May 31, 2015, 09:18:39 PM
 #319

Since you now have access to the seed fund, is the B&C logo being designed so we can run those ad banners?
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June 01, 2015, 03:19:48 AM
 #320

Since you now have access to the seed fund, is the B&C logo being designed so we can run those ad banners?

We are in the process of creating a B&C Exchange logo with a talented logo designer, yes. We can't provide an estimate for when it might be completed however. We will look at advertising publicly as soon as we're confident that we have created a professional quality brand that will have broad appeal.
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