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Author Topic: **MANDATORY UPGRADE REQUIRED** [ANN] B&C Exchange - All users must upgrade  (Read 168901 times)
JordanLee
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April 25, 2015, 09:50:00 AM
 #41

Could you summarize the requirement for the signers? The design doc has some but there are  more scattered in posts. It seems that there are a lot of requirements as what and how the signer should do quickly and everyday. Being a signers is like a full time job. If a signer works 8 hours a day you'd need three to fill one around-the-clock position, which B&C needs ~10. Can B&C find so many dedicated reputable signers?
If they are to be paid to be motivated, B&C would need to pay 30+ person's salary (with fees or whatever)?

Being a reputed signer takes absolutely zero work on a day to day basis. Everything is automated except the release of other signers' security deposits, but that is likely to occur less than once a month. The first version of B&C Exchange will also require signers to occasionally broadcast deposit public key lists, although this can be automated in later versions. For now most signers will set up their operation on a VPS. It just runs. You get block rewards. That is all.

There is just a bit to set up to get started, but there really isn't much to it. Here is a hypothetical example of how a signer would get started:

Adam decides to commit to being a Bitcoin and Nu signer, which means he is promising to always be able to send verifications and sign transfers for the deposit addresses he publishes for those blockchains, unless and until he permanently transfers the keys and responsibilities to another signer (who has already established a reputation). He believes BlockShare holders will trust him because he has been an important developer in the Nu community for a year and has proved reliable and trustworthy in that role.

Adam takes the following steps to prepare for the responsibility:

  • He pays for a VPS subscription.
  • He installs the Bitcoin client, the Nu client, the B&C Exchange client and the Tor browser bundle on the VPS.
  • Each of the three clients is configured to use Tor by configuring the proxy settings in each client's Options dialog.
  • He opens the bcexchange.conf file to configure access to the Nu and Bitcoin clients. The IP address (127.0.0.1), port number, blockchain ID, rpcuser and rpcpassword are entered for both clients.
  • Using the getnewaddress RPC command in the B&C client (which has optional parameters for specifying how many new addresses to create and a blockchain ID), Adam creates 1000 new Bitcoin addresses, 1000 new NuBit addresses and 1000 new NuShare addresses.
  • He creates a BlockShare and a BlockCredit address he will use as his reputed signer identity.
  • He creates multiple backups of all five wallets, using encrypted volumes.
  • Using the pairaddresses RPC of the B&C client, a blockchain record pairing Adam's reputed BlockCredit and reputed BlockShare address is created.
  • Using the depositaddresslist RPC of the B&C client, Adam publishes his public Bitcoin, NuBit and NuShare addresses on the B&C blockchain.
  • Adam's technical preparations are complete, so he makes a forum post detailing his preparations, promises to be a signer for at least a year, promises to hand over keys to a top reputed signer in the event he eventually chooses stop being a signer, posts a security deposit in BlockShares worth $20,000 and asks BlockShare holders to upvote his reputed signing address.

BlockShare holders respond favorably to Adam's request for upvotes and after two weeks Adam becomes a top reputed signer. Everything he needs to do on a daily basis is completely automated. Adam only needs to ensure his VPS is running with the required software. As his Bitcoin, NuBit and NuShares signing addresses get consumed by exchange users, he will need to publish more. That can be automated in later iterations.

Adam has 6% of all reputation points, so he gets the reputed signer block reward in 6% of blocks as his compensation.

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April 25, 2015, 01:56:09 PM
 #42

For now most signers will set up their operation on a VPS. It just runs. You get block rewards. That is all.

Thanks for the detailed explanation.
It's quite a long list although I hope most of the technical part can be done by a signer's installation kit.
You didn't mention other things the signers can do such as blocking certain addresses. These need constant attention.

Please take answering this question as a way to help me to understand where the signer's discretion (hence honesty and reputation) is needed: If it's all so simple, why can't a pre-made robot  be a reputable signer? They can be programmed not to cheat.

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JordanLee
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April 25, 2015, 03:10:41 PM
 #43

If it's all so simple, why can't a pre-made robot  be a reputable signer? They can be programmed not to cheat.

The software is a pre-made robot doing all the signing, I would say. The reason the task has to be allocated to a specific entity is that they must use and manage private keys in a secure manner.

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JordanLee
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April 25, 2015, 03:46:32 PM
 #44

Jordan, ppcman posted this on the Peercointalk chat. Care to comment on any of it?

"The only problem I have, is that it will feel like NXT's asset exchange with a 1 minute delay between trades. If you've ever bought/sold on NXT's Asset Exchange, it just feels wrong to wait so long between transactions. People need to start learning that a common chain with API is the way to go. Let NXT participate. Let Bitshares participate. Let NuShares participate. That's the only way a real decentralized exchange can work. Is if you invite every one to the party.

...even let centralized exchanges participate too. Like a Fidonet system from the BBS days. That's going way back, but there's wiki on it for younger people. To explain, fidonet was a network of messaging spread across the world from proprietary BBS software. It didn't matter what platform you ran, or what software you had. As long as it was compatible with Fidonet, you got the feed. That's what the decentalized exchange of the future will be. Some thing that invites every one to participate and doesn't hold any particular coin or share system special.

We need more collaberation between competing crypto solutions in order for any of this to work. You can't leave any one behind when it comes to decentralized exchanges. That doesn't mean share drops either. It means make it cross-platform compatible. Only then will get adoption and the traffic needed to make it work. In my opinion, watching the crypto scene evolve is like watching grass grow, or a pot of water warm enough to boil. really annoying. I know where we're headed, it is just frustrating waiting for every one to realize it. just my 0.02 cents (or my 0.1 PPC)"


Peer to peer consensus mechanisms simply can't instantly create consensus with the level of certainly needed to safely and irreversibly transfer value. The time needed can be collapsed with shorter block times in the future (as network latency drops) or using trusted nodes. The extremely secure way in which funds are handled will make it worth the short wait for experienced traders who understand just how high the risk of default is with centralized exchanges.

I expect BlockShare holders will choose to support NXT and Bitshares, so B&C Exchange will be open in a way NXT and Bitshares are not, because those platforms only permit you to trade assets that are native to their blockchain. So if you want to trade Bitcoin for Bitshares, you can't do it using the Bitshares exchange. You would first need to acquire BitBTC, an asset on the Bitshare blockchain designed to track Bitcoin. With B&C Exchange, however, you will be able to trade Bitshares for Bitcoin directly without the use of proxy assets. B&C Exchange is truly cross-platform compatible.

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JordanLee
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April 25, 2015, 04:39:18 PM
 #45

Reading into this project more and based on what I know from being a NuShare owner and staying up to date, it appears you are starting to and have the tools necessary to build an entire crypto-ecosystem on top of the Peershares platform in a similar fashion to other crypto 2.0 platforms and Nu will act as the central bank of the economy.  Each DAC with it's own customized Peershares implementation.

So I guess my question is, what aren't you telling us?

What is next?

The crypto-economy first and foremost needs a stable currency as a foundation. That's why I created Nu. B&C Exchange serves as a second demonstration of how the Peershare platform can be customized to support very diverse business models. It is also a market for trading equity in decentralized autonomous organizations (DAOs). Just as the US dollar is the currency used to trade in and out of shares on the NASDAQ exchange, NuBits will be the currency used to trade in and out of shares on B&C Exchange.

What is next? Hopefully an ever increasing supply of DAOs (some using the Peershare platform), each offering its own novel business model. If this auction is successful, we will have proven a novel method for providing angel funding to create a new DAO by demonstrating that funding can actually come from a pre-existing DAO. We are discovering a new type of venture capitalist here: the DAO.

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BCExchange
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April 25, 2015, 04:42:33 PM
 #46

Here's an open question for everyone. What cryptoassets would you like to see on the exchange on Day 1 besides Bitcoin, BlockShares, BlockCredits, NuBits, and NuShares? If there is a very popular suggestion we may look at adding it for our first release.

Of course, BlockShare holders will have full control over what cryptoassets are added after the release of B&C Exchange, through shareholder motion voting.
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April 25, 2015, 06:50:57 PM
 #47

Here's an open question for everyone. What cryptoassets would you like to see on the exchange on Day 1 besides Bitcoin, BlockShares, BlockCredits, NuBits, and NuShares? If there is a very popular suggestion we may look at adding it for our first release.

I think Peercoin should have probably been listed in there, since it's our dividend coin for NuShares, plus the fact that most of us came from that community. It would be great for Peercoiners to be able to reduce their reliance on btc-e in case something ever happened to it. I've also talked to Sunny King about B&C and he's interested in seeing it on there.
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April 25, 2015, 10:10:53 PM
 #48

Here's an open question for everyone. What cryptoassets would you like to see on the exchange on Day 1 besides Bitcoin, BlockShares, BlockCredits, NuBits, and NuShares? If there is a very popular suggestion we may look at adding it for our first release.

Of course, BlockShare holders will have full control over what cryptoassets are added after the release of B&C Exchange, through shareholder motion voting.

I think you should list the cryptoassets that would most benefit me personally.  Slimcoin, Vanillacoin, and Bitshares.
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April 26, 2015, 06:31:40 AM
 #49

Hey Jordan, here is another response from the Peercointalk chat, this time from Pillow. It seems he was wondering about leverage being added.

Quote from: Pillow
I've glanced over Jordan's paper. To me it looks similar (from a user) to shapeshift, with the added benefit of getting the fill at the price you set. So like Shapeshift with a "fill" feature, but decentralized and likely cheaper. I would never use the exchange myself to even try and trade during market crashes, because of the latency. Also, if I understand it correctly, it doesn't let me leverage up the trade. so basically _not_ a "trading exchange" but instead an "asset exchange". I think this kind of exchange could serve a niche role and also the decentralized plug-n-play like way of adding new symbols to be traded could make it _super adapative_ to whatever new symbols comes along. If latency and/or leverage could be added, that would be amazing. I'm probably going to support this decentralized Jordan exchange thing, even if I wont make any money on it, I think I want to support the effort. Neucoin... I've not even bothered taking that survey where you get some free coins. It has the feel of a pump n dump, especially in comparison to this exchange thing which is actually solving a real world problem.
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April 26, 2015, 06:44:20 AM
 #50

following this
freemind1
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April 26, 2015, 12:35:59 PM
 #51

The project seems very interesting and is well explained. It has my services as a translator if needed and congratulations on the project BCExchange.

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JordanLee
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April 26, 2015, 01:20:39 PM
 #52

Hey Jordan, here is another response from the Peercointalk chat, this time from Pillow. It seems he was wondering about leverage being added.

Quote from: Pillow
I've glanced over Jordan's paper. To me it looks similar (from a user) to shapeshift, with the added benefit of getting the fill at the price you set. So like Shapeshift with a "fill" feature, but decentralized and likely cheaper. I would never use the exchange myself to even try and trade during market crashes, because of the latency. Also, if I understand it correctly, it doesn't let me leverage up the trade. so basically _not_ a "trading exchange" but instead an "asset exchange". I think this kind of exchange could serve a niche role and also the decentralized plug-n-play like way of adding new symbols to be traded could make it _super adapative_ to whatever new symbols comes along. If latency and/or leverage could be added, that would be amazing. I'm probably going to support this decentralized Jordan exchange thing, even if I wont make any money on it, I think I want to support the effort. Neucoin... I've not even bothered taking that survey where you get some free coins. It has the feel of a pump n dump, especially in comparison to this exchange thing which is actually solving a real world problem.

Shapeshift is a very useful centralized service. It is probably easier to use and is faster for first time users (but not repeat users). However, B&C will have four advantages over Shapeshift:

  • On liquid trading pairs the cost of trading will be much less (I have calculated it at around 2% on Shapeshift). While the cost will be dependent on ever changing spreads, I expect costs to typically be about 10% as much (0.2%). The percent cost will depend on your order size and the spread independent NuBit liquidity providers set. Overhead costs will be very low on B&C Exchange while liquidity will be very high due to liquidity operations from Nu.
  • It can't be shut down, for the same reasons Bitcoin can't be.
  • It supports limit orders where you set a price you will pay and it will fill when and if the market moves to that price
  • After a beta period, it will support much larger orders (the limit is $1000 on Shapeshift)

While orders are not instantly eligible to be filled (they require a network configurable number of confirmations), order cancellations do take effect instantly.

Because B&C Exchange will be dependent on the blockchains of the assets it supports, only reliable blockchains should be supported. I suspect we will see more than 10 supported shortly after release.

There are no plans to support margin trading on B&C Exchange.

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JordanLee
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April 26, 2015, 01:27:58 PM
 #53

The project seems very interesting and is well explained. It has my services as a translator if needed and congratulations on the project BCExchange.

There will be need for translators in the client and HTML5/Javascript UI at a minimum. What language can you translate into?

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freemind1
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April 26, 2015, 02:15:22 PM
 #54

I translate from English to Spanish and of course Spanish to English.

Here some of my works:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1018997.0

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1016871.0

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1026566.0

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1028182.0

Greetings.

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April 27, 2015, 12:31:25 PM
 #55

I am a bit confused..so we had peershares, then nushares and now blockshare?
how are they related?
BCExchange
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April 27, 2015, 03:26:28 PM
 #56

I am a bit confused..so we had peershares, then nushares and now blockshare?
how are they related?

Peershares is a free open-source template that was created in 2014 by Jordan Lee. Peershares are an inexpensive and decentralized ledger to be used by businesses for tracking share ownership and distributing dividends in an automated fashion. Shares can be transferred and held just like other cryptocurrency units, such as Peercoins or Bitcoins. Anyone can create their own Peershares blockchain for free.

Nu (NuBits and NuShares) is the first customized Peershares implementation. A useful way of thinking about it is that Nu is a project using the Peershares template to run its own pegged currency operation.

B&C Exchange (BlockShares and BlockCredits) will be the second customized Peershares implementation. Similar to Nu, B&C Exchange will be using the Peershares template to run its own decentralized exchange operation. However, while Nu was developed from the basic Peershares source code, B&C Exchange will be developed from the more extensively customized Nu source code.
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April 27, 2015, 07:37:03 PM
 #57

New to NuShares, but I'm interested in the decentralized exchange.

I think I remember this being put to a vote or something amongst NuShares holders - is that right? Has it already happened?
BCExchange
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April 27, 2015, 07:45:55 PM
 #58

New to NuShares, but I'm interested in the decentralized exchange.

I think I remember this being put to a vote or something amongst NuShares holders - is that right? Has it already happened?

Nice to have you here with us. Yes, the motion to auction these 100,000,000 NuShares (which will grant its holders 100,000,000 BlockShares once B&C Exchange is launched) is currently being voted on.

Our website shows that the motion 20e1ec16c5527c3873699e702c96a980c22faed9 is at about 42% support right now and rising quickly. It appears the motion will pass within the next 24-48 hours unless the voting changes significantly. Once the motion passes, we will begin the auction in this thread with an updated OP.
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April 27, 2015, 09:47:17 PM
 #59

How would you compare B&C exchange approach to this approach (= https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,15864.msg204707.html#msg204707) in which a decentralized exchange uses delegated proof of stake (a fork of bitshares block chain) involving some sort of decentralized consensus to manage the behavior of the escrow implied inside the system?
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April 27, 2015, 09:59:24 PM
 #60

Is sonny king involved?

And how exactly does multisig operate on man exchange were coins are traded at high frequency? The transactions need to be off blockchain, and an exchange Weill want to make sure their books and records match up... What if a customer refuses to sign a transaction since they're on the losing side of their trading?
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