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Author Topic: **MANDATORY UPGRADE REQUIRED** [ANN] B&C Exchange - All users must upgrade  (Read 168893 times)
BCExchange
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August 23, 2015, 08:58:17 PM
 #541

The B&C Exchange team has completed the next requirement of motion f8bcd3d068a6b35c92902a8d57e0e773e4e35352, which states

Quote
August 23, 2015 (23:59 UTC) - Any BlockShares that have not been requested for purchase by August 21, 2015 will be burned.

Block explorer confirmation: https://bcblockexplorer.com/transactions/7f0aad5d884918153d2bf2468c11108519d4640e4de95177deb155426108e5b6
Transaction ID: 7f0aad5d884918153d2bf2468c11108519d4640e4de95177deb155426108e5b6
Block: 69368
Amount burned: 22,565.983 BKS

The only undistributed BlockShares remaining in our possession are for the following groups/purposes:

1) People who already paid for their BKS but haven't yet provided us with a BKS address to send them to
2) People who asked to purchase BKS before the August 21 deadline but haven't yet paid
3) 100 BKS held to pay for transaction fees on the final transfers, of which any unused BKS will be burned at the conclusion of BKS distribution

If you find yourself in group 1 and are having difficulty reaching us through email or BitMessage, please send us a PM here to confirm that we have received your message.

As a reminder, motion f8bcd3d068a6b35c92902a8d57e0e773e4e35352 states that all undistributed BlockShares must be burned by 23:59 UTC August 30, 2015. To ensure that our obligations are met all final payments must be made by August 28 to ensure that records can be reviewed and the burn completed before August 31. Whatever isn't paid for by August 28 will be burned before August 31.

Our fundraising total is now $311,161. A final BKS distribution table with exact BKS ownership numbers by group will be provided after the final August 30 burn.



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August 23, 2015, 09:29:40 PM
 #542

So is the number of outstanding BKS in the block explorer correct?

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August 23, 2015, 10:07:58 PM
 #543

So is the number of outstanding BKS in the block explorer correct?

No. Burns immediately lower the quantity of BlockShares on the blockchain. This can be seen by anyone with a B&C client by running the getinfo RPC and looking at the moneysupply value, which is 186,264.1782 right now. The figure on the block explorer website is not updated rapidly. We are working with our block explorer developer to ensure that an accurate total will be displayed once burns are complete.
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August 27, 2015, 04:53:50 AM
 #544

The new BlockShares fundraising total is $312,860.

Motion f8bcd3d068a6b35c92902a8d57e0e773e4e35352 states that all undistributed BlockShares must be burned by 23:59 UTC August 30, 2015. We would like to request that all payments be made by August 28, 2015 to ensure that records can be reviewed and the burn completed before the 31st. If this will be a problem for a purchaser due to a lack of access to their funds until August 29 or August 30, please send us an email and BitMessage to work out alternative arrangements.

We would also like to remind people who purchased shares before the blockchain was created, but who haven't sent us BKS addresses to send them to, to please do so as soon as possible. There are a number of people in this position. We will hold onto their shares for an extended period in the hopes that we will have an opportunity to send them eventually.
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August 27, 2015, 11:14:08 AM
 #545

I would like to know whether those "alternative arrangements" for delayed payments violate the terms of the motion in any way? If so, I am definitely against those alternative arrangements. We should stick to the motion, no matter what.

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August 27, 2015, 01:32:43 PM
 #546

I would like to know whether those "alternative arrangements" for delayed payments violate the terms of the motion in any way? If so, I am definitely against those alternative arrangements. We should stick to the motion, no matter what.

The motion is quite clear and I don't see room for alternative arrangements.

All BKS that have not been purchased before 2015-08-21 23:59 UTC need to be burned at 2015-08-28 23:59 UTC.

Who purchased before 2015-08-21 23:59 UTC needs to have deposited the payment before 2015-09-04 23:59 UTC.

The only alternative arrangement I can think of is a payment very close to 2015-09-04 23:59 UTC where the transaction is on the network, but not being processed fast enough to reach BCE before 2015-09-04 23:59 UTC.
I can imagine to save those BKS from being destroyed and wait until after the funds have reached BCE.

The BKS from people who purchased shares before the blockchain was created need to be excluded from the burned BKS. They will be delivered as soon as they provide BCE with a BKS address to deliver them to.
I assume that payment for those shares has already been received by BCE. If not, the motion applies to them as well.
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August 27, 2015, 02:41:18 PM
 #547

I would like to know whether those "alternative arrangements" for delayed payments violate the terms of the motion in any way? If so, I am definitely against those alternative arrangements. We should stick to the motion, no matter what.

Who purchased before 2015-08-21 23:59 UTC needs to have deposited the payment before 2015-09-04 23:59 UTC.

The only alternative arrangement I can think of is a payment very close to 2015-09-04 23:59 UTC where the transaction is on the network, but not being processed fast enough to reach BCE before 2015-09-04 23:59 UTC.
I can imagine to save those BKS from being destroyed and wait until after the funds have reached BCE.




I disagree with you with regard to the date you mentioned (2015-09-04): 14 days after the motion has passed is what counts.

August 30, 2015 (23:59 UTC) - Any BlockShares remaining that have not been paid for - including those that were requested for purchase but not paid for - will be burned. At this point, all undistributed BlockShares will have been destroyed as per the motion. This date is fourteen days after the motion passed.

The motion has passed on August 16th. Therefore, payments have to be completed until August 30, 2015 (23:59 UTC)! Otherwise, BKS that have not been paid for will be burned.

Anything wrong with those statements? Maybe I missed something.

I made a final request for BKS but forgot that the minimum requirement is 500$ per bid. I made that request for 100 BKS prior to the final deadline and corrected it after the deadline. The request has not been accepted then, which I fully understand and accept as the rules are straight to the point and should not be violated. This should count for every single point mentioned in the motion.

Am I correct?
 

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August 27, 2015, 04:18:38 PM
 #548

I would like to know whether those "alternative arrangements" for delayed payments violate the terms of the motion in any way? If so, I am definitely against those alternative arrangements. We should stick to the motion, no matter what.

No, they do not violate the motion. The last requirement is:

Quote
August 30, 2015 (23:59 UTC) - Any BlockShares remaining that have not been paid for - including those that were requested for purchase but not paid for - will be burned. At this point, all undistributed BlockShares will have been destroyed as per the motion. This date is fourteen days after the motion passed.

We have requested that users make final payment by August 28th to ensure that we are able to comply with the burn on August 30th, as it takes time to verify purchase records and prepare an accurate burn count. Our comment "If this will be a problem for a purchaser due to a lack of access to their funds until August 29 or August 30, please send us an email and BitMessage to work out alternative arrangements" allows users to still pay after Aug 28 but before Aug 31 if they can't access their funds until those days. We just want to minimize the amount of record-keeping we do in the hours prior to the burn.

Requesting an August 28 payment deadline allows us to be certain that we can complete the burn by August 30 23:59 UTC, while still allowing users who may face extenuating circumstances to make payment on August 29 or August 30 if absolutely needed.

We agree that it is important that the terms of motions are upheld, just as we've done with all motions on the Nu network in the past. We have purposely posted the three important dates of the motion multiple times in this thread to ensure there is no ambiguity regarding our commitments.
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August 27, 2015, 08:53:59 PM
 #549

I disagree with you with regard to the date you mentioned (2015-09-04)[...]
It seems I messed up some dates - not only the one you mentioned, but all except for 2015-08-21 23:59 UTC Wink

[...]
We agree that it is important that the terms of motions are upheld, just as we've done with all motions on the Nu network in the past. We have purposely posted the three important dates of the motion multiple times in this thread to ensure there is no ambiguity regarding our commitments.

I wouldn't have doubted that with all the experience from Nu motions so far.
Typically motions are accompanied by a discussion - the longer the more controversial the topic is.
It's a pleasure to see important decisions being made then by vote from share holders and the corporation following them.

Tell me where else you find this way to form a reliable consensus that moves important things in a relatively short time?
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August 27, 2015, 10:59:24 PM
 #550

We have updated https://bcexchange.org with links to the design document and block explorer. Thank you for the suggestion.
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August 28, 2015, 05:22:02 PM
 #551

We have submitted a request to Coinmarketcap to add BlockShares to its listing service. We hope to see it added soon.

BKS are currently traded on one exchange (CCEDK) on a NBT/BKS pair and a BTC/BKS pair. We have already requested that CCEDK flip the trading pairs to BKS/NBT and BKS/BTC and they are working on it.

We encourage all BKS holders to write to their favorite exchanges to request BKS trading support. What exchanges would you like to see BlockShares traded on? 
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August 28, 2015, 07:51:00 PM
 #552

We encourage all BKS holders to write to their favorite exchanges to request BKS trading support. What exchanges would you like to see BlockShares traded on?  

How about the B&C Exchange?  That's the whole point of this, right?
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August 28, 2015, 07:58:38 PM
 #553

How about the B&C Exchange?  That's the whole point of this, right?

Once B&C Exchange trading is developed and implemented, you can be quite sure that BlockShares will be available there! In the meantime, it is an advantage for BlockShareholders to have several platforms to trade BKS on. It is also beneficial for our project to have exposure on as many exchanges as possible as a form of indirect advertising.
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August 29, 2015, 01:41:57 PM
 #554

If anyone is willing to sell Blockshares, I would take them for 4.10 dollars per BKS.

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August 29, 2015, 01:57:21 PM
 #555

If anyone is willing to sell Blockshares, I would take them for 4.10 dollars per BKS.

Looking at the price level at ccedk you seem to be a little bit to low with your offer.

The best NBT sell (= BKS buy) offer is at 4.25 NBT (0.235 BKS per NBT).
If you try to get BKS from the BKS sell side, you have to pay 4.34 NBT (0.23 BKS per NBT).

I expect the price level to rise, because the BKS sale from BCE has been ended - but you are aware of that Wink
...and I hope for the trading pair to get flipped soon - this notation really makes the brain hurt Smiley

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August 29, 2015, 04:18:15 PM
 #556

If anyone is willing to sell Blockshares, I would take them for 4.10 dollars per BKS.

Looking at the price level at ccedk you seem to be a little bit to low with your offer.

The best NBT sell (= BKS buy) offer is at 4.25 NBT (0.235 BKS per NBT).
If you try to get BKS from the BKS sell side, you have to pay 4.34 NBT (0.23 BKS per NBT).

I expect the price level to rise, because the BKS sale from BCE has been ended - but you are aware of that Wink
...and I hope for the trading pair to get flipped soon - this notation really makes the brain hurt Smiley


Why sell the goose laying the golden eggs?

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August 29, 2015, 04:31:49 PM
 #557

I disagree with you with regard to the date you mentioned (2015-09-04)[...]
It seems I messed up some dates - not only the one you mentioned, but all except for 2015-08-21 23:59 UTC Wink

[...]
We agree that it is important that the terms of motions are upheld, just as we've done with all motions on the Nu network in the past. We have purposely posted the three important dates of the motion multiple times in this thread to ensure there is no ambiguity regarding our commitments.

I wouldn't have doubted that with all the experience from Nu motions so far.
Typically motions are accompanied by a discussion - the longer the more controversial the topic is.
It's a pleasure to see important decisions being made then by vote from share holders and the corporation following them.

Tell me where else you find this way to form a reliable consensus that moves important things in a relatively short time?


I agree. I only *just* found out about this project (just my luck, just a couple days late...) and am regretting not finding out about it sooner. Very professional handling of announcement, shares and distribution, to say the least. I do not say that often.

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August 29, 2015, 05:42:18 PM
 #558

I wouldn't have doubted that with all the experience from Nu motions so far.
Typically motions are accompanied by a discussion - the longer the more controversial the topic is.
It's a pleasure to see important decisions being made then by vote from share holders and the corporation following them.

Tell me where else you find this way to form a reliable consensus that moves important things in a relatively short time?


I agree. I only *just* found out about this project (just my luck, just a couple days late...) and am regretting not finding out about it sooner. Very professional handling of announcement, shares and distribution, to say the least. I do not say that often.

The whole funding round and the communication has been a pleasure so far - let's hope that this can be prolonged to the operation of the exchange Smiley
But looking at the results of creating the Nu network I have some hope that this development team and the share holders will make something ingenious.
Roughly 310 BKS are for sale on ccedk at the moment with a price not far above the latest sell price by Blocks&Chains Exchange.
If you want some BKS, go and get them Wink

The last 39 BKS for sale at ccedk are quite expensive at 8 NBT (= 8 USD) compared to the price before Blocks&Chains Exchange stopped the sale (after the share holders decided to do exactly that).

Why sell the goose laying the golden eggs?
Because it doesn't yet lay eggs - neither golden nor any other; except the eggs you receive for selling BKS.
People who are over invested might want to get rid of some shares, because it might take some time to make the exchange operational.
So far there's the (justified!) hope that this exchange might be such a goose.
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August 29, 2015, 07:34:58 PM
 #559

Nice project. Gonna follow this thread.

BTW Are there any milestones or estimated time of launching some concrete alpha/beta implementation of B&C Exchange?

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August 29, 2015, 07:51:19 PM
 #560

Nice project. Gonna follow this thread.

BTW Are there any milestones or estimated time of launching some concrete alpha/beta implementation of B&C Exchange?

I'm not aware of estimated time of the milestones, but a kind of development road map can be found here in the thread.
For convenience here's an estimate about the total time of completion:

2) Given your funding request will be successful, how long will it take to realize the project?

This is an important question, and one I would like to know the answer to as well. Development of an unprecedented software solution such as B&C Exchange is characterized by the unfolding of unexpected issues which must be solved.

I have delivered an unprecedented blockchain solution in the past in the form of the Nu network, which pioneered stable cryptocurrency and the ability of shareholders to constantly adjust the protocol by voting. The network worked just as promised and was delivered in 8 months at a cost of around 250,000 USD. While I made no promises about the time it would take to deliver Nu, I will report that I privately thought it would take 6 months and 500,000 USD. So, I was 50% under budget and 33% over my private time estimate.

I can say that I believe B&C Exchange is modestly or slightly simpler than creating the Peershare template and Nu. I am absolutely committed to doing everything in my power to delivering it as quickly as possible. However, investors should be aware that I am unable to absolutely guarantee its delivery at all, and I can't guarantee it will be delivered in a certain time frame or for a certain cost.


Here's some information about milestones:

Would it be possible to get say monthly updates on development of B&C?

I certainly expect you will see visible progress and updates at much shorter intervals.

There has been a concentration of holidays taken by team members the last couple weeks, so progress has been slow within that time interval. I expect we will see quite a bit of progress over the next month, although I know most team members have additional holidays scheduled.

We have two independent iterations moving forward right now. Sigmike is working on the reputation voting system along with its associated block reward as detailed on pages 14 and 15 of the design document. John (aka erasmospunk) will be working on the other voting features unique to B&C Exchange as detailed on page 3 and 4 of the design document. When complete, these changes will be deployed to our publicly available test network, but will not be added to the production network until enough development has been completed to make the exchange fully functional.

When those iterations are complete, we will begin implementing the individual message types unique to B&C Exchange which are described in detail in the design document. Each will be implemented in our public test network when complete. Here is a summary of those message types:

1. Reputed signer deposit public key list
2. Non-reputed signer deposit address request
3. Non-reputed signer withdrawal address request
4. Order
5. Order validation
6. Fill (not signed and no transaction fee)
7. Fill validation
8. Fund transfer
9. Cancel order
10. Withdraw from deposit address
11. Pairing of BlockCredit and BlockShare addresses

We will start with forming the message pairing BlockCredit and BlockShare addresses and client processing of that message. Next will be the reputed signer deposit public key list. Then we will add the non-reputed signer deposit address request message. We will continue to add the rest of the messages to testnet one at a time in the approximate order they would be used in typically.

When the bulk of the messages have been implemented we will begin developing the web interface.

If additional funding is received, we could see additional goodies such as an Android interface that simultaneously functions as a wallet for assets being traded.


Here's some information about goodies that can be expected now that the funding is way beyond the minimum funding:

Is it correct to assume that with this level of funding the development of CHECKLOCKTIMEVERIFY and and Android app has at least been secured? Also, JordanLee mentioned that (estimation) with another 10-20k dollars a specific type of escrow service could be developed by making certain changes to the protocol. That should also more or less be covered, shouldn't it?
I really hope that the recent boost in funding pays off for us instead of diluting all our shares without really getting something extra to the version that we were supposed to see with 200k funding.
For the future, I would really like to see an outline of a certain feature and the required funding for the development. Otherwise it might be tempting for those in charge of the funds to talk down the raised amount of money and overemphasize the required development efforts.
Looking forward to see as many additional features as possible for the extra 50k raised.

Cheers,
BTP

It will be months before those projects can be started. That means the situation might shift some between now and then. For instance, a better and more urgent use of the funds may emerge. For these reasons I'm not sure it is optimal to commit funds to it now. I do think they ought to be the top priorities (CHECKLOCKTIMEVERIFY and the Android app, with the escrow framework as a third priority).

When it does become time to decide whether to commit to an Android app, it makes the most sense to pass a motion to transfer a specific quantity of NuBits raised to the developer that commits to developing it, such as Giannis or Cybnate. There isn't much reason for me to be directly involved in that because it doesn't pertain to the core client software.

So, shareholders can decide whatever they want to about how funds raised are allocated and spent. As always, I will be very responsive to motions. But it is probably premature to commit to specific features many months before development begins.

Reputation voting has been implemented. You can see screenshots of the user interface for it here. Once the reputation reward is done (currently in progress), the other new voting types are complete (also in progress) and Bitcoin dividends are supported we will push a release to test net. It probably makes sense to push this release to production so that reputed signers can get established before the exchange is operational.
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