[ANN] SpreadCoin | Decentralize Everything (decentralized blockexplorer coming)

[georgem]

...

Whatever, just be sure to tell your master.

[rhinomonkey]

Georgem has had no problem up to this point dumping SPR.

Now that he has lost people's trust and the market has subsequently plummeted he has to fabricate an excuse to liquidate the rest of his funds.

https://chainz.cryptoid.info/spr/address.dws?SQ4AFN2yTeMjcus2ALQX95DD8US8WeGnYo.htm

In fact he has already dumped Stone's donations as seen above.

He owes Stone nothing as he only has a few of his original donation left.

Also, it's funny that one would dump coins to not owe anyone anything while simultaneously allowing patrons to change the direction of development by donating.  

Stone was really just the first big patron. 

[georgem]

....while simultaneously allowing patrons to change the direction of development by donating.  

Now this is very revealing. 

I will quote you:

I still think that Georgem is taking steps in the right direction with his community engagement. I'm not sure if you have seen what he posted in Spreadcointalk but here it is from (http://spreadcointalk.org/index.php?topic=762.msg4101#msg4101):

So, I wanted to say something about the "patronage" funding I brought up earlier.
It should be the best way to incentivize a regular steady financial support for the developers of spreadcoin (currently only me), without the need to do the scammy things many other devs/communities have been doing in the altcoin sphere. (ICO, instamine, taxing miners, and other crap etc...)

here is an idea how "patronage" could look like:

...

BTW, what I describe here is for the spreadwallet only.
As the other project (the spreadminer) progresses I will start a similar separate "patronage" scheme for it too. (More about it later this month)

This way people will be able to donate towards whatever project they find more "important" / "pressing" at the moment.

What do you say, guys?

If you ever wanted to create the wallet you always dreamed about.... here's the opportunity to do so!

I have highlighted in bold what I think can be a framework for the community to have more of a voice. I was discussing the issue of communication and transparency a few posts back - maybe you saw. Essentially, I think the Patreon can be used by the community to negotiate with Georgem over communication. You are right that he might not 'naturally' be inclined to post about more 'feelings' issues. But if the community finds a problem with some aspect of development (whether that be communication, transparency, or that Georgem doesn't post enough photos of hamsters) to be important enough, then they can donate under the condition that the issue will be addressed. I think it could work.

I didn't yet have an opportunity to give you proper feedback on this weird interpretation you did here back then.

So what you highlighted here as "a framework for the community to have more of a voice" you now use to claim the opposite that "this will allow patrons to change the direction of development"?

That's insane, make up your mind, you can't have it both ways.

First, let me explain what I meant in that old post when I talked about ...

This way people will be able to donate towards whatever project they find more "important" / "pressing" at the moment.

I always assumed that you understand english? So read the actual words as they are written here.

I merely meant that patrons will have the ability to decide whether they would rather want to spend their money on...

spreadwallet,
spreadminer

or

servicenode development.

We have miners that give a fuck about the wallet or servicenodes, and I have seen people who don't care at all about servicenodes but are very interested to see the spreadwallet succeed.

I want to give them an opportunity to decide where they want to invest their money.

Do you get it now? How could you misread this?

That's literally the only thing that this meant.

Also, I am always open for good ideas.
Why would good ideas require that someone first pay me money before I accept them?
LMAO.

BUT, if I got a penny for every bad idea I heard in this thread I would be rich by now.

Seriously, I heard you argue the case AGAINST decentralization more than once in the past few months,
and you seriously think that I would allow you to change the direction of development with such fatal ideas?

No, ofcourse not, if your idea is bullshit and goes against the principles of decentralization then I will just LAUGH AT YOU.



Holy fuck, some people are dense.

[rhinomonkey]

Georgem resorting to ad hominem will really get him lots of donations.

If you wouldn't let my donations, or anyone else's donations make you commence with any terrible ideas then why the fuck are you saying you would owe something to Stone because of a donation from 1.5 years ago?

You haven't had a problem with owing anything else to anyone. And as I said, you already dumped most of his coins so what the fuck does it matter?

[georgem]

Stone was really just the first big patron. 

Some of you guys don't seem to understand the difference between investing and patronage.

So let me explain:

When an investor gives you money he wants to control everything you do.
You have become his investment and he will control every step you do,
possibly even outright ordering you around (writing your whitepapers, choosing the interviews you're supposed to have, releasing press statements...)

But patronage works differently.
Patrons support you because they like what they see, they agree with it and they want to see more.

Do you get it now? 

So please, if your idea of support means that you want to gain control over what I do, 
then STOP giving me money, because you will be wasting both my time AND your money.

I reserve the right to choose who I want to work with.
Just because you make a donation doesn't mean I owe you something.

I am here to create decentralized software which hopefully will add value to SPR.
That I owe to the miners and everyone who holds and uses SPR.

[georgem]

How does the client extrapolate block info from the other coins? Do you have a full node of each coin your tapped into? If so bitcoin has a chain size of over 50GB.. This will require a huge VPS and will cost quite alot. Will everyone be required to host a bitcoin blockchain when they run a service node? If not, where does the 'decentralisation' come in? Are service nodes even on your agenda anymore?

The spreadwallet communicates directly with other nodes through TCPSockets, using their protocol.
For example for bitcoin the protocol is described here: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Protocol_documentation
You know, stuff like getaddr, getblock, getheaders, version, inv, etc....

All nodes, even SPV-wallets like androids use this protocol to communicate with other nodes.
It's just a matter of what command/message they send and if they are capable or willing to process the answer.

An SPV-wallet will never ask for full blocks from another node, because it just wouldn't have enough space to safe them, but theoretically it absolutely could.

...

Here is a screenshot showing how I currently save data that is received in SPV mode (basically by just asking getheaders from other full nodes, and other commands).

(getheaders return just the blockheaders. So the getheader_XXX.dat-files you see here are like a blockchain of just the blockheaders.)



All those coin's nodes are currently synced 100%.

It's interesting to see that SPR has by far the biggest size.

227 MByte.

Since SPR blockheaders are bigger than most other coins (most are 80 bytes, SPR is 185 bytes) and we are also a 1 min coin this adds up to 227 MByte,
also growing more rapidly than other coins.

Not that this is a problem, but just an interesting fact.

...

When spreadwallet connects with a local fullnode it doesn't need to save any extra data, it just asks that local node for everything.
I'm not using RPC or anything like that.
The spreadwallet is directly acting as a node itself so that it can communicate with the local (or external) full node through TCP.

[georgem]

pokeytex posted a few fine questions in the forum that I am going to answer here too:

@georgem - I just have a couple questions.  Why sell your SPR?  What motivation will you have to make SPR grow and prosper without having any SPR?  Also, if your goal is to decentralize why would you want to sell that much SPR to another individual like the person trying to buy 300k plus?  I am sure I am missing something.  Thanks for the response. -pokeytex

Clear, concise questions, I love it.

Why sell your SPR?

 

To buy hardware, right now, so that I can use it, right now.
I calculated that I'm gonna need about 4000$, which based on this low SPR price, means that I have to sell all my current SPR holdings, and pay the rest with a little fiat out of my own pocket.

What motivation will you have to make SPR grow and prosper without having any SPR?

 

Let me ask you back: if my efforts make the price of SPR rise, will you as a patron support me LESS or MORE? 

Also, if your goal is to decentralize why would you want to sell that much SPR to another individual like the person trying to buy 300k plus?

I love rich people, I want to be a rich person myself.

Rich SPR holders can't create centralization with their money.
Much like large BTC holders can't really do anything except sell or hold their money.

BUT: It looks entirely different when we talk about a mechanism like that used in Dash/Darkcoin (or other masternode-schemes):
Suddenly, those who hold large amounts of the currency get to control AND CENTRALIZE actual full nodes.

AND THEY EVEN GET SUBSIDIZED TO DO THIS!!! 

And THAT ALONE is what I have a problem with, not rich people.
I don't care who owns SPR and how much.
I care about whether this money can be used to compromise decentralization.

Servicenodes will NOT work like masternodes at all.

....

I can answer in more detail, but I'd rather not write these unreadable large posts. Nobody will want to read them anyway.
I'm awaiting your feedback.
I want you to absolutely understand my motivation.
There is much more to say about this, but one step at a time. 

[entropycoin]

Why not explain your motives behind selling all your spread in full.

I just have, these are not even my SPR, doggy.

Ask your "master" for more details. 

Great, so you have sold all your coins and don't want to maintain a vested interest in a project in which you are the developer? You're developing a currency but you'll only accept other forms of payment for work completed? Who are all these people that will be giving you money? Truly baffling stuff

[georgem]

Great, so you have sold all your coins and don't want to maintain a vested interest in a project in which you are the developer? You're developing a currency but you'll only accept other forms of payment for work completed? Who are all these people that will be giving you money? Truly baffling stuff

WTF are you talking about... I still have all my coins.
Until now nobody wanted to buy those SPR from me for the price that I suggested.
I'm not gonna dump them on an exchange.
That's not gonna happen.

You don't seem to be aware or even care that the dev should not be a speculator.

I don't want to hold large amounts of SPR.
I'd rather have a large amount of patrons, so that I will be able to do my research consistently.
I do hope that donators and patrons will keep sending me SPR ofcourse - should they be happy with my job.
And I will look for opportunities to quickly put this money to good use. D'uh!

Good use as in: paying my bills, buying hardware, etc.. which will result in me doing a better job here and invest more time.

Again, you have to understand that I CAN'T AND WON'T BE A SPECULATOR. But you can. You are.

My goals are entirely different than yours.

I want to create decentralized software that will hopefully attract good people and good value to SPR.

[rhinomonkey]

Hahaha this is ridiculous.

Just so everyone know, the dev of this coin doesn't want to hold Spread because he doesn't want to be a speculator. And moreover, he wants to sell for double the current market price.

...

Georgem, I know you want money right now to do your hardware purchasing, but it simply does not look good at all for you to sell your only stake in the project you are working on.

You wouldn't have to be a speculator if you just built something useful. It sounds like you're speculating on your skills, because otherwise you would be confident in the "good value" you would bring to the coin.

Do you understand this landscape at all? This space is full of scammers and because of that many people are rightfully skeptical. You are now telling everyone that you will be removing any stake you have in this project failing. You will literally have nothing to lose if you decide one day to go work on a hamster farm.

You have thus far failed to regain the trust that you have lost from a plethora of community members since you have made countless statements that you do not and still have yet to follow through with. So why SHOULD anyone trust you? You have given people little reason to.

Moreover, your unprofessionalism and insulting manner of responding to people who have dedicated time and money to helping YOU will be unattractive to "patrons" as you so call them. We're all just cockroaches right?

When an investor gives you money he wants to control everything you do.

Seriously, I heard you argue the case AGAINST decentralization more than once in the past few months,
and you seriously think that I would allow you to change the direction of development with such fatal ideas?

Oh shit, you found me out. All of my donations were sent to you just to control you and centralize the project.

I brought up my thoughts in the forum because I was genuinely curious and wanted to bump the thread, because otherwise it would have been empty. 

Your attribution of malicious intent to anyone who criticizes you is unfounded and paranoid. Also, it's irrelevant, because they can't do anything to change anything anyway!

Best of luck finding people to support you in your endeavors. Maybe people will overlook your abrasive and outright disrespectful stance toward everyone and donate because you actually develop something.

[georgem]

Best of luck finding people to support you in your endeavors.

I am convinced on more than just one level that patronage is the right way to move forward.

1) Those who want to help me can now do so. (and I can properly reward them for doing so)
2) Those who don't want to support me can just sit on their pile of SPR and angrily wave their fist.

That's how I see it. I love it that some people hate patronage, it's exactly the people that I already expected won't like it.

BTW, regarding cockroaches, I didn't mean you specifically. But feel free to be offended.

When a hamster meets a cockroach you know what happens:



(click for youtube video)

[rhinomonkey]

Best of luck finding people to support you in your endeavors.

I am convinced on more than just one level that patronage is the right way to move forward.

1) Those who want to help me can now do so. (and I can properly reward them for doing so)
2) Those who don't want to support me can just sit on their pile of SPR and angrily wave their fist.

That's how I see it. I love it that some people hate patronage, it's exactly the people that I already expected won't like it.

BTW, regarding cockroaches, I didn't mean you specifically. But feel free to be offended.

When a hamster meets a cockroach you know what happens:



(click for youtube video)

Unfortunately, the people who bought into the project a long time ago just got the protocol of the development changed. We have no choice but to support you. Well, aside from selling at -10X. Or pouring more money in. Neither sounds great to me. So I guess I fall into the category (currently) as someone who sits on their worthless pile of SPR.

I think your manner of engaging with individuals will be unlikely to get you much for money and I think it would be wise of you (the capitalist in you) to treat people around here with a bit more respect, for your sake.  

[georgem]

Do you remember back in August/September when I openly started to contemplate the idea of "regular donations"
and how they could help me more than anything else to achieve some kind of consistency in my work output?

That's how the seed for "patronage" was planted.

You understood my reasoning very well back then, and I am thankful for the regular(!) donations that you made in the following 3-4 months or so.

I hope that you will admit, seeing the current state of the spreadwallet etc... that something has considerably changed to the better. Right?
Because regular support (even if it is small right now) is what is needed to achieve some form of consistency.

But do you remember how some other people reacted back then, once I mentioned donations?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1045373.msg16114566#msg16114566



-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

(How fitting that they are both crowncoiners now, lol.)

Their reaction:
"georgem already own lots of SPR, therefor asking for regular donations is an insult"
... is basically what I heard them say.

Their reaction set a thought process in motion in my mind that made it clear to me that something is very very wrong with the SPR that I own,
how I received them, why I received them, and what I am expected to do with them. (wow, think about that for a minute)

So let me get this straight, I have been carrying these SPR around with me for more than a year, but they never really were of any help to me.
And even worse, when I try to actually make use of them (like I am trying today)...
..many people lose their minds.

LMAO!

Yet, stonehedge will claim that I have received all this wonderful help from him.
Well... for this to actually take place I would need to actually "finalize the deal" and "take profit", right?

Which is why I want to put this money to good use, as soon as possible, and also get rid of it at the same time.

The fact that I still own a considerable amount of SPR, undoubtetly stops (and will stop) people from becoming patrons because they think:
"this guy already owns an ungodly amount of SPR, I'm not gonna help this stupid fucker."

I can't have it both ways.
Either I do funding through patronage (which means immediate support in the here and now),
or I hold large amounts of SPR so that I can "fund later what I need funded now"... huh?

I already made my decision.

[georgem]

"protocol of the development"

What does that even mean?

Never heard such wording before... does this have something to do with PR-Investors writing whitepapers for a dev or something?

I always assumed that devs just to research and science ONLY.
Why would there need to be a protocol?
Are you talking about somekind of new ruleset that a dev has to follow who gets his orders and whitepapers written by someone who isn't a dev?

Please enlighten me.  

....

Anyway, all those posts today were long overdue.

And I haven't even addressed most of the weird comments and FUD that many (including you) have posted.

I might address some of them later, but more important things first. (like sleep)

[entropycoin]

Great, so you have sold all your coins and don't want to maintain a vested interest in a project in which you are the developer? You're developing a currency but you'll only accept other forms of payment for work completed? Who are all these people that will be giving you money? Truly baffling stuff

WTF are you talking about... I still have all my coins.
Until now nobody wanted to buy those SPR from me for the price that I suggested.
I'm not gonna dump them on an exchange.
That's not gonna happen.

You don't seem to be aware or even care that the dev should not be a speculator.

I don't want to hold large amounts of SPR.
I'd rather have a large amount of patrons, so that I will be able to do my research consistently.
I do hope that donators and patrons will keep sending me SPR ofcourse - should they be happy with my job.
And I will look for opportunities to quickly put this money to good use. D'uh!

Good use as in: paying my bills, buying hardware, etc.. which will result in me doing a better job here and invest more time.

Again, you have to understand that I CAN'T AND WON'T BE A SPECULATOR. But you can. You are.

My goals are entirely different than yours.

I want to create decentralized software that will hopefully attract good people and good value to SPR.

Speculating =/= investing. I invested in this project initially due to fundamentals and proposed development trajectory. I continued to invest because of your road map and promises that up to this point have remained unfulfilled.

A developer should be invested in their work, I can't believe I need to type this. The fact that you're wanting to unload the entirely of your holdings sends a red flag amongst a sea of red flags. I was actually impressed with you offering a bit of transparency by putting all your holdings on display...and now you want to unload them all.

If you have no vested interest in this project, why would anyone else?

[georgem]

If you have no vested interest in this project, why would anyone else?

My vested interest in this project is very deep, long term and does not require me to hold large amounts of SPR.

Why would it? You have yet to show to me why this would be a necessity.

If you are confused by this concept, I would like to ask you to take a look at bitcoin.

The lead developers there are not developing bitcoin because of some large amount of BTC they own,
I'm sure they are getting payed somehow, but they are certainly not BTC investors chasing ROI.
They also couldn't care less about the current price of BTC.
(In fact it would be horrible if this were the case)

Yet they are arguably the most commited and capable devs in all of crypto.

So they invest their time and brainmatter, but NOT their money.

How is this wrong?
And more important, how does this make them "not have a vested interest"?  

I would argue that this makes their interest even MORE vested, since it makes them truly independent.

I want to be more like that, and less like Dash (for example).

I ask myself this question alot, you know:
"What would bitcoin do"

So yeah. What can I say, it seems like you just proved my point.
You aren't even capable anymore of imagining that a dev could be driven by something else than just speculative investment interest.
Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Speculating =/= investing.

You invest for speculative reasons, meaning you "speculate" that something will happen.
So don't make it sound like those are different things that aren't connected with each other...

[stonehedge]

George, it is really very sad to see you regularly insult people who supported you for a long time. 

I have no idea why you think this will encourage others to support you. People are talking about the 150k SPR that I donated to you but I know that several others have donated large amounts of SPR and £/$/€ to cover your living costs while you work on Spreadcoin. My 150k is a small amount overall. To be calling these people cockroaches for expecting you to keep to your end of the bargain is hardly the best advert of your personal conduct. I'm tempted to post our Slack conversation from when I made my largest donation.

It is disingenuous to state that large investors tried to influence the direction of development when you were part of the conversations, had ample opportunity to discuss and challenge and agreed on the direction that you were going to take. Part of being a member of a team is disagreeing with each other and debating to resolution and agreement.  Its shitty that you decided to change direction without working as part of a team.

Throwing people's goodwill back in their face and calling them a cockroach is just really, really disappointing.

There is no organised Crowncoin coup against Spreadcoin.  CRW is a large team that just happens to have  several SPR members who switched to another project because they were sick of your bullshit. I personally keep an eye on this thread because I am keen to understand what is going on and whether I was right to decide that I couldn't have a working relationship with you.  For what its worth, I really wanted to see SPR succeed right up until the point you started throwing insults around.

[georgem]

Having said all that, let me make one thing clear.

Everything I said today refers to only me and my role as dev.

I don't care and have no opinion about whether anyone else wants to use Spreadcoin for speculative purposes or whatever.

It's a permissionless system, do as you please.

Whether you do or you don't... I have no opinion about it one way or the other.


...

BTW is anyone here using Spreadcoin for commerce?
You know, that thing were you offer or demand goods or services?

No?

Hm.... surrounded by a bunch of speculators... I see.

[Belligerent Fool]

Having said all that, let me make one thing clear.

Everything I said today refers to only me and my role as dev.

I don't care and have no opinion about whether anyone else wants to use Spreadcoin for speculative purposes or whatever.

It's a permissionless system, do as you please.

Whether you do or you don't... I have no opinion about it one way or the other.


...

BTW is anyone here using Spreadcoin for commerce?
You know, that thing were you offer or demand goods or services?

No?

Hm.... surrounded by a bunch of speculators... I see.

Go have a look at the DASH markets for the same thing, nobody uses altcoins to trade for goods or services, why on earth would anyone use SPR if LTC is even struggling to use it's currency for product placement.

When Bitcoin goes up people hold for the long term, sell or spend it on things, the game has changed from the early days years ago

[stonehedge]

Having said all that, let me make one thing clear.

Everything I said today refers to only me and my role as dev.

I don't care and have no opinion about whether anyone else wants to use Spreadcoin for speculative purposes or whatever.

It's a permissionless system, do as you please.

Whether you do or you don't... I have no opinion about it one way or the other.


...

BTW is anyone here using Spreadcoin for commerce?
You know, that thing were you offer or demand goods or services?

No?

Hm.... surrounded by a bunch of speculators... I see.

Go have a look at the DASH markets for the same thing, nobody uses altcoins to trade for goods or services, why on earth would anyone use SPR if LTC is even struggling to use it's currency for product placement.

When Bitcoin goes up people hold for the long term, sell or spend it on things, the game has changed from the early days years ago

When all is said an done, virtually no crypto projects have achieved any uses at all.  Not even Bitcoin. 

The first project to actually prove to be USEFUL to normal people is going to rule supreme.