[ANN] SpreadCoin | Decentralize Everything (decentralized blockexplorer coming)

[rhinomonkey]

Evan be like:

BTW, I have a few awesome/ridiculous ideas about funding, I will talk about them later. Time to let the capitalist in me shine!
And no, they won't involve "funding through coinbase".

Would love to hear these. I had thought of setting up a shirt fundraising sort of thing and then getting all the funds to you, but I wasn't sure how much anyone would want a Mr. Spread shirt. lol.

I think also upon the release of the Spreadwallet some people in the community may have increased confidence and you may receive some more donations.

Maybe I didn't think this project will last "years". But now I'm so convinced, I will consider decades and centuries in the code. Not yet millenia... though...

Curious you say this - sounds like your confidence has increased. But it would seem to me, that based on what is hoped to be achieved here, that the coin will have staying power, even with the rise and fall of other currencies. Lots of options to explore once those nodes are up and running.  

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[georgem]

Curious you say this - sounds like your confidence has increased.

Yes, definitely, when compared to that "headless" dev time a year ago, shortly after original MrSpread left us, indeed, there was a lot of uncertainty back then...

Now, not anymore.

[coins101]

Spreadcoin servicenodes live here

https://github.com/spreadcoin-project/spreadcoin/tree/mn-test

And a note from MrSpread on what he was doing at the time

https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/v0-11-1-instantx-development-update.3769/page-2#post-39115

[coins101]

You have to work on other projects?

I'm very flexible at the moment.

The more donations I get from you guys, the more work gets done, faster.
As easy as that.  
I get no donations--> work will get done too... eventually, just slower.

And everything in between.

Rule of thumb: Donation of 100$ equals a day's work.

BTW, I have a few awesome/ridiculous ideas about funding, I will talk about them later. Time to let the capitalist in me shine!
And no, they won't involve "funding through coinbase".

Why not set aside some Coinbase to pay for full time development?
Since it's introduction within DASH, Coinbase payments to the project team, they have gone from $20m to $90m

...and bitcoin's marketcap has gone from 0$ to 1000$ without the need of any such schemes.

Funding development through coinbase is a sacrilege, if I ever start talking about "taxing" the miners I want someone to put a bullet in spreadcoin's head.  
One of the most important features of a blockchain is its immutability, that miners/investors can expect the parameters (especially those of the coin creation) to stay the same forever.

Funding the dev is not "that" important (I'm just an inventive dude with a hamster) that we should throw our principles out of the window like DASH has done so often (premine-accident, going closed-source for months, funding through coinbase, ... )
But hey, they can do whatever they want, it's not my business. But their "practices" are not compatible with Spreadcoin is all I'm saying.

Stay tuned for more revelations!  

When you read the original Bitcoin white paper, Coinbase rewards are basically a bribe to mine. It's a temporary measure until the  network has enough users to pay fees.

The Coinbase mechanism is dependent on the network having significant value and uptake.

There are different ways that can be achieved and they are independent of the Coinbase rewards.  If it were otherwise, Coinbase rewards on their own would be sufficient for a coin to be successful, which is plainly not the case.

On Spreadcoin you Georgem give the network it's value.  This will eventually change when the network reaches a critical escape velocity and code can be contributed to by others without knocking confidence, but until then your inventiveness, your time and your skills are intrinsically tied to the value of the Coinbase rewards.

So your argument is, at this time, not one of taxing the miners because they profit because of you. If you are paid by the Coinbase to work full time on the Project, both you and the miners win.

I know the current situation won't change, but my argument is valid. You know I'm right.

[coins101]

Curious you say this - sounds like your confidence has increased.

Yes, definitely, when compared to that "headless" dev time a year ago, shortly after original MrSpread left us, indeed, there was a lot of uncertainty back then...

Now, not anymore.

Necessity is the mother of invention.

Servicenodes, Bitcoin full node support and data mining to sustain Spreadcoin and Bitcoin well into the next century were invented out of that period of change.

Your excellent roadmap was born from picking up the pieces.

[stonehedge]

Georgem has received more financial support than any dev I know working on a project that hasn't delivered anything yet.

150,000 SPR from me alone in the last year.

I know of others who have give him thousands of dollars of donations in fiat. That didn't make work speed up or show any progress.  Its up to them if they want to come forward.  I know some are trying to protect their investment.

There is a reason why the people who supported georgem most have walked away from this project.

Georgem, get off your pedestal, dial back your ego a few notches and start treating your investors and supporters with some respect.

[coins101]

...

The more donations I get from you guys, the more work gets done, faster.
As easy as that.  
I get no donations--> work will get done too... eventually, just slower.

And everything in between.

Rule of thumb: Donation of 100$ equals a day's work.

BTW, I have a few awesome/ridiculous ideas about funding, I will talk about them later. Time to let the capitalist in me shine!

...

Ok Georgem, that's it. I have kept my mouth shut for long enough now in the hopes you would finally deliver something feasible, but you honestly leave me no other choice.

The fact you're asking for donations is fine, every developer appreciates some financial aid. But by saying development will go at a slower pace if people don't donate, are you serious? And it's in OUR hands now if this will get finished anytime soon or at all? I know for a fact you had quite some financial support in the past. What's the result of that support??

Also, by all means, I can't agree more with some earlier comments: In the past 18 months you delivered several pretty mock-ups and a fancier wallet with a built-in vanitygen. And on top of that all, looking at the GitHub the last commit was @ 5th of August 2015 (https://github.com/spreadcoin/mrspread/commits/master) and not a single line of code has been added after that. How can you ask donations for development that simply isn't happening??

For the sake of your own dignity and the SPR community: PLEASE prove me wrong. Show us some code, or at least something else than a fancy mock-up. And really, what's the talk about you not willing to work with other developers if it can greatly boost productivity and development? What the actual fuck!?

I would love to hear from the rest of the community, this has taken long enough. Time for some real answers!?

We both know there are several projects that are moving at a snail's pace because devs have to work on other things to pay their bills.

Also, being in this world in real life, its very difficult to give a linear timeline to work getting done, mainly because of problem solving. You can't just say I'll solve a problem in x days.

[coins101]

Everybody, thanks for waiting,
sorry, but there was a lot to digest first, and I'm far from finished...  

But lets dive in.

So here are some of the news about the new upcoming wallet, called Spreadwallet that will introduce a few changes.
I will have to split the info over a few posts, so consider this a first preview of what to expect.

I will give a short overview of the function and explain in the next post why I think it's a good idea to advance the wallet this way.

First of all, the spreadwallet is now a multicoin multiwallet that can operate in SPV and Fullnode mode.  

In short, what you'll get is:

- decentralized UTXO blockexplorer that works with the nodes you host locally (on your main computer or spread over your local network)
- multihost capabilities that allow you to run multiple nodes in your local network, remote controlling them with your spreadwallet.
- easy setup and control through SSH of all the raspberry pis in your local network.
- multiwallet support for many coins, immediate use of all those coins in SPV mode.
- support for many different styles of wallets (deterministic, non-deterministic, TREZOR and paperwallets)
- update of the spreadcoin daemon to newest bitcoin core codebase

In more detail:



You can see the main sections in this screen.

We have an explorer, based on the blockexplorer I've been working on for a while now.
It uses my own database engine called spreadDB for fast access to UTXO datastructures.
The explorer only works with full nodes you operate in your local network, be it on the same machine as your wallet, or e.g. a raspberry pi in your local network.

Above that we have a reserved section that will show all the wallets that you load/create,
and in the top right corner we have the section where all the nodes will be listed that the wallet is currently operating and connected to.
(Those can be Fullnodes or representations of SPV-Connections the wallet has with certain coins)

Once you "register" and "setup" a full node (or SPV-Connection) with the spreadwallet the explorer will start "exploring" the blockchain data and build the database that will allow you to quickly search for addresses, hashes, etc..
You will have to wait for the sync process to finish before the explorer can kick in. Although I am working on a mode where the explorer builds its database even while the blockchain is synching.
The explorer doesn't work with data it gets only through SPV-Connections.



BTW as you see in the top right corner the Nodes always inform you about how many connections they have and what percentage they are synched and explored.
Basically what was at the bottom of the old wallet (the statusbar) has now disappeared and all info about Nodes will be visualized directly in the respective Node-Box.
The "SPV nodes" look a little different than the Full Nodes to make them easily distinguishable.



When it's finished, the "Chains" sidebar menu will give you general information of all the chains/coins you are connected to.
This will list a few coin parameters a difficulty graph and a hashrate graph. Similar to what the old wallet shows in the overview screen of the mining menu.
This chain-list will include SPV connections, since all this data can be derived from header data alone, so that's good!

So how exactly will you add Nodes?



Remember that Genesis-Extractor experiment we started some time ago?
Here's the link to refresh your memory: http://spreadcointalk.org/index.php?board=21.0

We will continue to build on this information to provide useable data for the spreadwallet, so that we have all the necessary information to handle multiple coins.
I will start with a list of a few coins that I will personally test, we can then continue from there and add coins as the community sees fit.
But generally speaking ... you can customize this list anyway you want since it will be comprised of external files that are human readable.

Furthermore, some coins will not work with the wallet rightaway, so we will have to find different solutions later.
For example, AFAIK etherium doesn't use UTXO format, so it can't be scanned by the current version of the blockexplorer.
But coins that are very similar to spreadcoin will work rightaway.

So based on this external coinlist the Spreadwallet will present to you a few coins that you can activate/deactivate.
The three states of "coin connection" (or "Node state" if you will) are

Off
SPV
Full

Once a node is in SPV mode, you can basically use it rightaway. The Spreadwallet does everything automatically. It's like a multi-headed SPV-Monster.

If you put a node in Full mode, you will need to set it up first. (More about it later in more detail). This means you have to download the official daemon from the coins site and tell spreadwallet where you installed it, etc...

Now, there are 2 cool things about the way you can run full nodes here:

1) you can quickly setup raspberry pi's that will act as 24/7 full nodes that communicate with the spreadwallet over SSH. Everything is done through the wallet.
(Just to emphasize: I'm currently running my spreadwallet with only a raspberry pi as main full spreadcoin node.   And, as you would expect, the raspberry node keeps on running 24/7, even if I shut down my main computer!   )

2) you can quickly switch between Full and SPV mode depending on your needs. (ever waited for a full bitcoin node to synch to make a quick payment? Well, you can choose to temporarily switch to a SPV connection for BTC and afterwards switch back)

You will be able to scan your local network and figure out which computers and raspberries are available, and what IP they have, etc...
There are still many things missing here, I will inform you about progress.

I'm currently using a few Raspberry Pi 3, but am also exploring if it would be possible to use earlier versions of Raspberry Pi to do "some kind" of other non-node work. I do have a few ideas....



Next screen:



The spreadwallet does not contain a full node in its code, instead you will connect with a spreadcoin deamon that will be included in the package.
I repeat: Spreadwallet and spreadcoin daemon/CLI (based on newest bitcoin CORE) are now two different repositories.

Ok, continuing: The spreadwallet will be centered around ... well.... WALLETS! what else.

The details here are pretty extensive and there are lots of things I am still fleshing out, so I will have to inform you over the next days how the internals of the multi-wallet behaviour will look like and operate.

Here's another screen, with multiple coins simultaneously



BTW, it's entirely possible to run the wallet offline, just to create wallets (especially paperwallets) in a more secure fashion.
And vice versa, you can run Spreadwallet without having any wallet imported, just hosting a few full nodes to operate the blockexplorer.
Fully customizable.

You can even run spreadwallet completely without spreadcoin if you want!  

I don't care, the user decides! But that's how you create standards everyone likes to use.

So, to sum it up, this is the progress about the first of the three main things that keep me occupied right now:

1) Spreadwallet
2) Spreadminer (more info soon)
3) Servicenodes (more info about P2P and overlay research soon)

Bump

I am quite liking this new approach to host explorers for other coins. It's got something about it which lends itself to solving the bitcoin Sybil problem!

[Abou Talha]

Wondering why georgem needs donations. It's simple to make money, if you know where to put your money. Look at Monero : it was easy to make hundreds BTC of profit the last days.
BTW, georgem will never respect the others, because he's libertarian, not religious as me.

[coins101]

We both know there are several projects that are moving at a snail's pace because devs have to work on other things to pay their bills.

Also, being in this world in real life, its very difficult to give a linear timeline to work getting done, mainly because of problem solving. You can't just say I'll solve a problem in x days.

Agreed, 100%. But not being able to show the slightest bit of feasible tangible (oops, wrong choice of words) progression after 18 months is worrying, isn't it? And how do you explain the GitHub? Unless he's been working on some private GitHub nobody knows about.

I'm trying to get real. Believe me, I want this project to succeed as much as you do. I have invested big amounts as well, but my hope and trust are slowly fading..

Ah, I see.

I think the bit you are missing is this. Geoegem is a software engineer. But that doesn't make you a crypto developer. We know this from Evan. We had fork after fork, after fork during the first 6 - 9 months of Darkcoin.  That was Evan learning the ropes.

That's what Georgem has been doing. Now he is a Bitcoin dev after all this time of learning about the code base.  It does take about 12-18 months for someone with software skills to get up to speed.  Implementing BIPs and updating to the latest bitcoin core is proof that he is a proper crypto dev.

His approach is different to other devs, but that's how the roadmap will become reality.

[rhinomonkey]

I think some of this could be worrisome. I am personally not super worried. It seems to me that Georgem perhaps underestimated the task at hand in the beginning, and was in a huge trial and error stage up until recently. Of course, I am speculating. So it would be nice to hear something about the issues he has had just as much as his successes. Transparency is always a good thing!

Edit or as Coins101 said above^

I don't think anyone is arguing that he is running a giant scam. But if they are - consider this - over the past few months, price has been pretty abysmal, and I have only given him a couple hundred in donations. If he were trying to take peoples money and fuck them over, there are far more efficient ways - and he seems like he's clever enough that he would be able to fake it until he made a lot of money. It's almost an insult to his intelligence to say he is scheming lol.

Also, Georgem is more principled than most people I've encountered. That is part of the reason why I really like him as a dev, and why I have a good amount of confidence in this project succeeding.

We have gone over this before - the only real issue is if he can or can't deliver.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wxi-IUnCN_8

"The only rules that really matter are these: What a man can do. And what a man can't do."

[stonehedge]

I think some of this could be worrisome. I am personally not super worried. It seems to me that Georgem perhaps underestimated the task at hand in the beginning, and was in a huge trial and error stage up until recently. Of course, I am speculating. So it would be nice to hear something about the issues he has had just as much as his successes. Transparency is always a good thing!

Edit or as Coins101 said above^

I don't think anyone is arguing that he is running a giant scam. But if they are - consider this - over the past few months, price has been pretty abysmal, and I have only given him a couple hundred in donations. If he were trying to take peoples money and fuck them over, there are far more efficient ways - and he seems like he's clever enough that he would be able to fake it until he made a lot of money. It's almost an insult to his intelligence to say he is scheming lol.

Also, Georgem is more principled than most people I've encountered. That is part of the reason why I really like him as a dev, and why I have a good amount of confidence in this project succeeding.

We have gone over this before - the only real issue is if he can or can't deliver.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wxi-IUnCN_8

"The only rules that really matter are these: What a man can do. And what a man can't do."

For the record, I don't think this is a scam.

I only posted just in case people are unaware of previous support given to georgem.

My opinion doesn't necessarily matter, just wanted to address the donations = faster work claim.

[rhinomonkey]

I think some of this could be worrisome. I am personally not super worried. It seems to me that Georgem perhaps underestimated the task at hand in the beginning, and was in a huge trial and error stage up until recently. Of course, I am speculating. So it would be nice to hear something about the issues he has had just as much as his successes. Transparency is always a good thing!

Edit or as Coins101 said above^

I don't think anyone is arguing that he is running a giant scam. But if they are - consider this - over the past few months, price has been pretty abysmal, and I have only given him a couple hundred in donations. If he were trying to take peoples money and fuck them over, there are far more efficient ways - and he seems like he's clever enough that he would be able to fake it until he made a lot of money. It's almost an insult to his intelligence to say he is scheming lol.

Also, Georgem is more principled than most people I've encountered. That is part of the reason why I really like him as a dev, and why I have a good amount of confidence in this project succeeding.

We have gone over this before - the only real issue is if he can or can't deliver.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wxi-IUnCN_8

"The only rules that really matter are these: What a man can do. And what a man can't do."

For the record, I don't think this is a scam.

I only posted just in case people are unaware of previous support given to georgem.

My opinion doesn't necessarily matter, just wanted to address the donations = faster work claim.

I understand. I didn't think you or anyone was claiming it was a scam. It seems like more people have issue with pace of development.

As I sort of said, it was probably a trial and error period in the beginning. Donations then may not have "worked" as efficiently then as might now. Georgem's time spent developing back then could have been used on things that ended up resulting in some sort of failure. He has said in the past that he had to scrap some things and start over. It sounds like he has a far better handle on things now, along with a vision of where things are going.

I think productivity per hour coded will increase as Georgem gets in the groove and really nails things down. This isn't to say time before was wasted, because it wasn't. It was a learning process. At least this is how I picture things.

Time will tell if I have squandered money and time. But currently, I am fairly comfortable with the "risks" associated with the project.

[coins101]

As I was saying, the miners rewards are now tied to Georgem skills.

As we pick up what miners don't want to keep or can't afford to keep, we are also tied to Georgem's new Bitcoin dev skills.

Thick skin and focus on the big game is what's needed now. $100m to $200m market cap is the target and that needs Bitcoin whales to see why we are super important to maintaining and increasing their wealth.

[coins101]

Ah, I see.

I think the bit you are missing is this. Geoegem is a software engineer. But that doesn't make you a crypto developer. We know this from Evan. We had fork after fork, after fork during the first 6 - 9 months of Darkcoin.  That was Evan learning the ropes.

That's what Georgem has been doing. Now he is a Bitcoin dev after all this time of learning about the code base.  It does take about 12-18 months for someone with software skills to get up to speed.  Implementing BIPs and updating to the latest bitcoin core is proof that he is a proper crypto dev.

His approach is different to other devs, but that's how the roadmap will become reality.

That's not entirely relevant.. True, Evan definitely had to learn the ropes. But the big difference is that Evan showed progression because there were visible commits and he made visible mistakes, people (the community) talked about these and knew exactly where the project stood and was heading. Even at uncertain times with fork after fork everyone knew development was still going strong, which creates trust to a certain degree.

Now, back to SPR. In 18 months time zero code has been added to the SPR GitHub and a few fancy mock-ups have been shown to the public. Also, which still is a riddle to many of us, Georgem doesn't want any external help. Why doesn't he want any help? Because people might then find out there's 0 coding been done? Where and in what has all the work, money and time been spent on?

Georgem is a great guy, so is everyone in this community. But I hope you understand why I think this starts to feel like empty promise after empty promise. I want to be proven wrong, I really do. Even a simple video showing a working SPR wallet with all the mentioned features will make a lot of investors happy.

Whose up for helping out? Pull requests are open to anyone.

Anyone with a SIP? (Spreadcoin Improvement Proposal)

By my calculations, if we get to $100m you'll be driving around in a Ferrari California and living in a pimped out penthouse overlooking the Beach.

You know the bitcoin full node proposal can do that for you 

[rhinomonkey]

Ah, I see.

I think the bit you are missing is this. Geoegem is a software engineer. But that doesn't make you a crypto developer. We know this from Evan. We had fork after fork, after fork during the first 6 - 9 months of Darkcoin.  That was Evan learning the ropes.

That's what Georgem has been doing. Now he is a Bitcoin dev after all this time of learning about the code base.  It does take about 12-18 months for someone with software skills to get up to speed.  Implementing BIPs and updating to the latest bitcoin core is proof that he is a proper crypto dev.

His approach is different to other devs, but that's how the roadmap will become reality.

That's not entirely relevant.. True, Evan definitely had to learn the ropes. But the big difference is that Evan showed progression because there were visible commits and he made visible mistakes, people (the community) talked about these and knew exactly where the project stood and was heading. Even at uncertain times with fork after fork everyone knew development was still going strong, which creates trust to a certain degree.

Now, back to SPR. In 18 months time zero code has been added to the SPR GitHub and a few fancy mock-ups have been shown to the public. Also, which still is a riddle to many of us, Georgem doesn't want any external help. Why doesn't he want any help? Because people might then find out there's 0 coding been done? Where and in what has all the work, money and time been spent on?

Georgem is a great guy, so is everyone in this community. But I hope you understand why I think this starts to feel like empty promise after empty promise. I want to be proven wrong, I really do. Even a simple video showing a working SPR wallet with all the mentioned features will make a lot of investors happy.

I think these are all valid concerns.

[coins101]

Hello Good Citizens and Gentleidiots,

It is I the SpreadCoin prophet.  I have come to gauge the community's feelings on Georgem showing us that there has been coding done.  I and many others would be willing to donate to this project if there was any indication that the money was being used in a productive manner.  Below is a link to a straw poll so that we might show Georgem how we feel about this issue.

http://www.strawpoll.me/11132210

Thank you for time, peasants

Satoshi - talk about recluse 

You don't need to be a wolf of wall Street social animal to create a $100m project out of tapping away at a keyboard.

[ShelbyDev]

Satoshi - talk about recluse  

Georgem lives on top of the Matterhorn and only has dial up access when there are no clouds (satellite service). This only happens twice a year.

He'll get the Service Nodes working.

Eventually  

[coins101]

Satoshi - talk about recluse  

Georgem lives on top of the Matterhorn and only has dial up access when there are no clouds (satellite service). This only happens twice a year.

He'll get the Service Nodes working.

Eventually  

They are already here and working, just not implemented to Georgem's liking

Spreadcoin servicenodes live here

https://github.com/spreadcoin-project/spreadcoin/tree/mn-test

And a note from MrSpread on what he was doing at the time

https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/v0-11-1-instantx-development-update.3769/page-2#post-39115

But I guess you could be right, maybe the code is so big it's still up loading on his dial up connection

[georgem]

The fact you're asking for donations is fine, every developer appreciates some financial aid. But by saying development will go at a slower pace if people don't donate, are you serious?

Are you confused? How can you misunderstand what I said?

Ofcourse donations will make a project go faster, isn't that obvious?
And ofcourse development will be slower when I have to spend my time doing jobs for other customers (go after their money so to speak) and hence will have less time to concentrate on spreadcoin.
It works exactly like a mathematical equation.

You make it sound like I said "give me a donation or else HAHA I will deliberately step on the brake". That's an ugly insinuation and you should take that back, because that's obviously not how I meant it.

Weird, so I try to be totally honest and some people get pissed?