[ANN] Sia - Decentralized Storage

[Branko]

Sorry, small issues (kinda yet)

1) 10-15x of more siacoin that they expected is in the wind, when they thought they'd be the only blake2b

ASIC at this point in time,  much, much, more than they needed for the supposed

You still think number of coins mined is dependant on network hash rate?

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[Delphinus]

There are a lot of opinions on the fork, but I think it's a good thing they are not abandoning their early investors and most loyal supporters.

Although I agree it might not be the best solution for the network itself and reliability of SC towards partners, you owe this to the people who initially made this possible. It's a legacy debt. I'm invested in several projects who used their ICO money to set up their business, only to abandon their investors and focus on new business models and investors. That's harmful for the crypto market in general (even though it might be beneficial for that single coin). It makes people think twice about being early investors and hampers new startups in finding investments.

Although I own SC (and no miners), I do support this approach.

[Zer0Sum]

Well, IMHO, IF they really did incorporate an ASIC hardware solution in their Siacoin Obelisk miners and the

Obelisk decred miners, I think they need to have that as an option in firmware for a new algo and coin

to take advantage of this. Ideally, that coin/token would be used to run the siacoin network and/or

allowing only Obelisk hardware to be the backbone from the get-go.

If not that, at least opening up this hardware to other algo options would be something.

Again, if that actually exists, as they state or it was just a 'false flag' attempt to slow Bitmain down

back in the day.

Likely, as much as the devs say the price of siacoin does not matter to their cloud storage project, the

probably are as heavily invested as everyone else. But again, IMHO, if they were ONLY a hardware

manufacturer, they would already have used that asic hardware option in firmware to try and develop

a different algo and encourage developers to use such on their coin

Anyway, decred miners are doomed, you'd think at least they would use such for the decred miner or at

least do what the innsilicon folk have done with their firmware to allow HCASH coin mining.

If nothing else, that seems to be a firmware fix the could do of note to make their obelisk decred

miner MAYBE float a bit longer, rather than sink. (not sure why I'm bothering got my 1 decred coming

for giving away my 5 1/2 off obelisk coupons back in the day...even that likely will not make over electric

use, by the time I get it..just saying) well, it looks dire....just my 2 satoshi's worth ..we will see I guess

https://blog.sia.tech/sia-proof-of-work-reset-24b5ec439625

Happy?

I know I am, if I won't have to read long rants anymore  

I find the "rants" to be more informative than the pure astroturf you find on reddit

SC is worth owning just to read Vorick's blog...
But until I see a proper analysis of the ways Amazon would attack p2p storage if it ever hits 1-2% market share...
I'm going to assume that p2p storage is NOT commercially viable...
Except maybe as scratch pad for IoT devices or deep web mass storage.

https://www.computerworld.com/article/3250274/data-storage/blockchain-and-cryptocurrency-may-soon-underpin-cloud-storage.html

This is actually a decent article from a mainstream computer mag as opposed to boilerplate crypto hype...
You can see that Vorick is indeed targeting "cold storage" and/or the deep web's insatiable storage needs.

[Branko]

I find the "rants" to be more informative than the pure astroturf you find on reddit

SC is worth owning just to read Vorrick's blog...
But until I see a proper analysis of the ways Amazon would attack p2p storage if it ever hits 1-2% market share...
I'm going to assume that p2p storage is NOT commercially viable...
Except maybe as scratch pad for IoT devices or deep web mass storage.

But how to take him seriously if he thinks (over and over) that increased network hash rate means
we're mining more coins over time? I explained about how adjusting difficulty to keep block time
constant works, but he keeps ignoring it

[Searing]

Sorry, small issues (kinda yet)

1) 10-15x of more siacoin that they expected is in the wind, when they thought they'd be the only blake2b

ASIC at this point in time,  much, much, more than they needed for the supposed

You still think number of coins mined is dependant on network hash rate?

coins to their decentralized network cloud mining plans yes...regular hash rate NO...

from what I understand siacoin ASIC's are used to protect the network...siacoin price

will be derived from such....thus the fork...thus a lot of siacoin (tokens) that will be in play

for the value derived from their 'cloud storage' solution.

inform me how I am wrong on this...if 1) siacoin's price now is due to scarcity and speculative

pump and 2) how this plays out with the 2nd and 3rd leg of this stool (assuming the fork is leg 1)
r
leg 2 being the cloud storage network for value and leg three being the ASIC's to run such.

I'm just saying all the parts have to be in play

again, where have I stray'd in your view on how this all is gonna shake out?

my terms are likely incorrect..but how I see this. IF siacoin price is dependent on the decentalized

cloud storage that sia-tech wants to compete with...and the siacoin is the coin/price...how does

having a crap load of coin in the world now 10-15x more than they expected when they were the only

supposed blake2b obelisk maker this year? Again, how does that work for value now of their vision?

or hell maybe it does not matter 10x-15x the siacoin in the world or not..if the cloud storage method

flops...the coin flops and price flops no matter how many exist...

again, educate me on how the price of all this siacoin is reflected in price on a cloud storage network

that is not up to speed yet? All speculation? Amount of siacoin is irrelevant to such?

again, how do you all see this as panning out?

brad


brad

[Branko]

snip

Theres NO 10-15 TIMES MORE COINS NOW THAN THEY PLANNED. You can repeat it 1000 times, it won't become truth.
Actually 2 years ago you could calculate exactly how many coins would be circulating now,  with 2-3% accuracy.

[Searing]

snip

Theres NO 10-15 TIMES MORE COINS NOW THAN THEY PLANNED. You can repeat it 1000 times, it won't become truth.
Actually 2 years ago you could calculate exactly how many coins would be circulating now,  with 2-3% accuracy.

well there is a hell of a lot more difficulty out there than there was....

thus there has to be more coins out their than they planned IF they were the only asic's in town

as they planned to be at this point in time in 2018.

difficulty goes up ..you run thru the coins faster and put them into the world? right?

still confused...clarify....if coin price determined by how many exist vs equip costs of the network etc?

not trying to slam here...but all them 4/5's of NON obeblisk blake2b miners got some kinda benifit from

all this.....so i'm confused if what you say is true...why the fork? It should make no difference in price

etc from what you say....4-5k of obelisks after the fork are not gonna generate enough to effect any

of this...thus why fork? where is the profit in doing so? why bother?

again, not a slam...use small words...

brad

[Branko]

snip

Theres NO 10-15 TIMES MORE COINS NOW THAN THEY PLANNED. You can repeat it 1000 times, it won't become truth.
Actually 2 years ago you could calculate exactly how many coins would be circulating now,  with 2-3% accuracy.

well there is a hell of a lot more difficulty out there than there was....

thus there has to be more coins out their than they planned IF they were the only asic's in town

as they planned to be at this point in time in 2018.

difficulty goes up ..you run thru the coins faster and put them into the world? right?

still confused...clarify....if coin price determined by how many exist vs equip costs of the network etc?

not trying to slam here...but all them 4/5's of NON obeblisk blake2b miners got some kinda benifit from

all this.....so i'm confused if what you say is true...why the fork? It should make no difference in price

etc from what you say....4-5k of obelisks after the fork are not gonna generate enough to effect any

of this...thus why fork? where is the profit in doing so? why bother?

again, not a slam...use small words...

brad

4-5k obelisks will generate exactly the same amount of coins as million of innosilicon asics would.

Difference is, your Obelisk would get 1sc per month in that scenario, this way your obelisk
will get 1000 per day (totally made this number, but if you want, I can calculate excat profit for exact
number of obelisks because amount of sia coins per day is a constant number


Difficulty is magic wand here, the more ASICs(hashpower if you like) the bigger the difficulty...it auto-adjusts
to make number of coins per day constant

Pretty good explanation can be found here (and in better English, as its my 4th language, lol):

https://siasetup.info/learn/mining_and_forks

[Searing]

snip

Theres NO 10-15 TIMES MORE COINS NOW THAN THEY PLANNED. You can repeat it 1000 times, it won't become truth.
Actually 2 years ago you could calculate exactly how many coins would be circulating now,  with 2-3% accuracy.

well there is a hell of a lot more difficulty out there than there was....

thus there has to be more coins out their than they planned IF they were the only asic's in town

as they planned to be at this point in time in 2018.

difficulty goes up ..you run thru the coins faster and put them into the world? right?

still confused...clarify....if coin price determined by how many exist vs equip costs of the network etc?

not trying to slam here...but all them 4/5's of NON obeblisk blake2b miners got some kinda benifit from

all this.....so i'm confused if what you say is true...why the fork? It should make no difference in price

etc from what you say....4-5k of obelisks after the fork are not gonna generate enough to effect any

of this...thus why fork? where is the profit in doing so? why bother?

again, not a slam...use small words...

brad

4-5k obelisks will generate exactly the same amount of coins as million of innosilicon asics would.

Difference is, your Obelisk would get 1sc per month in that scenario, this way your obelisk
will get 1000 per day (totally made this number, but if you want, I can calculate excat profit for exact
number of obelisks because amount of sia coins per day is a constant number



Difficulty is magic wand here, the more ASICs(hashpower if you like) the bigger the difficulty...it auto-adjusts
to make number of coins per day constant

Pretty good explanation can be found here (and in better English, as its my 4th language, lol):

https://siasetup.info/learn/mining_and_forks

so you are saying that price of siacoin does not matter the amount of coin ..thru difficulty..that happens to exist at any point in time

the non siacoin miners 4/5's ran difficulty up (i'm assuming) more so than if only 1/5th was how siatech

envisioned such when they made the units and thought they were gonna be the only game in town in 2018.

So, how is price determined? Is it all speculation and thus the amount of coin in existence does not matter?

We are just farther along in the difficulty curve?

Also, why the big push by obelisk for ASIC's is it only the supposed 'secure network' they wanted for their

cloud storage vision as they say?

So If I'm following this correctly at this point in time 4/5's of all coin in exitence is 'owned' or mined

by say 4/5's of non obelisk equipment (gpu's/purchace of such/non siatech obelisks)

so .the ONLY angle that an obelisk sc-1 has 'with the fork' is that it can continue to mine and get siacoin

as the 'supposed' only miner on the hash network ...ASIC wise with the fork?

Assuming, I'm following the above (big assumption) than how does their cloud storage vision

come into this whole thing asic's vs price etc?

again, maybe it is all moot ..and the value of siacoin will tank to dust...if their cloud storage

vision does not come to pass (the reason for siacoin supposedly)

On a side note on asic's I'm guessing we will have an annoucement soon (if not already) of a siacoin

classic coin (for the NON-forked asic units in the world) ...wait for it..just saying...no idea what it means

but I myself would bet on it

thanks for the clarification..let me know what you think about the above...just trying to flesh this all out

in some manner.

brad

p.s. as to the free decred miner I'm getting (at least I used the 5 1/2 coupons for something) that is

looking pretty dire...but at least I swap'd the coupons for better 'wall art'

[DeepestOnion]

https://blog.sia.tech/sia-proof-of-work-reset-24b5ec439625

Happy?

I know I am, if I won't have to read long rants anymore 

That is actually a quite interesting analysis. Mining echosystems are getting more and more complex and it is a big challenge to discover the industry's best practice. The alternative in some cases could be to see the whole project fail, so I think such an analysis is welcome.

[invisiblefriend321]

centralized TOKEN / STORAGE as of the fork !

completely centralized now IMO ?


NAMASTE

[big_daddy]

this fork news is helping Sia raise prices/value
what will be after the fork? I hope that will ATH again 

[mega_carnation]

this fork news is helping Sia raise prices/value

Most of the coins that will have a fork brings more demand and its starting to cause panic buying.

what will be after the fork? I hope that will ATH again 

Only two things, SIA will be pumped and the fork coin will be sold after claiming. All money that came from the fork will be moved to SIA or any valuable coin.

[Branko]

this fork news is helping Sia raise prices/value

Most of the coins that will have a fork brings more demand and its starting to cause panic buying.

what will be after the fork? I hope that will ATH again 

Only two things, SIA will be pumped and the fork coin will be sold after claiming. All money that came from the fork will be moved to SIA or any valuable coin.

You got it all wrong...fork not necessarily means new coin...and in this case, if there will be new coin at all, it won't
be given by SIA...but lets not tell everyone, maybe its better they stay uninformed and keep pumping price 

[big_daddy]

this fork news is helping Sia raise prices/value

Most of the coins that will have a fork brings more demand and its starting to cause panic buying.

what will be after the fork? I hope that will ATH again 

Only two things, SIA will be pumped and the fork coin will be sold after claiming. All money that came from the fork will be moved to SIA or any valuable coin.

You got it all wrong...fork not necessarily means new coin...and in this case, if there will be new coin at all, it won't
be given by SIA...but lets not tell everyone, maybe its better they stay uninformed and keep pumping price 

right
there will be no new coin, they are modifying the blake2b algorithm
SC will not split the chain

[goldart]

this fork news is helping Sia raise prices/value

Most of the coins that will have a fork brings more demand and its starting to cause panic buying.

what will be after the fork? I hope that will ATH again 

Only two things, SIA will be pumped and the fork coin will be sold after claiming. All money that came from the fork will be moved to SIA or any valuable coin.

You got it all wrong...fork not necessarily means new coin...and in this case, if there will be new coin at all, it won't
be given by SIA...but lets not tell everyone, maybe its better they stay uninformed and keep pumping price 

right
there will be no new coin, they are modifying the blake2b algorithm
SC will not split the chain

there will be no new coin, but a modified algorithm may attract investors
and i think i need to wait for the best days for all cryptocurrency.

[kaicrypzen]

There could be a new coin if a part of the community continues mining on the legacy (before the fork) chain. The fork is going to invalidate blocks mined by equipment that is currently holding ~45% of the hashrate, I don't see this mining equipment just going to trash and miners using it just accepting to throw away their now main-chain-useless miners, so in my opinion, there is a very high chance the legacy chain will be maintained hence giving birth to a new coin.

[Branko]

There could be a new coin if a part of the community continues mining on the legacy (before the fork) chain. The fork is going to invalidate blocks mined by equipment that is currently holding ~45% of the hashrate, I don't see this mining equipment just going to trash and miners using it just accepting to throw away their now main-chain-useless miners, so in my opinion, there is a very high chance the legacy chain will be maintained hence giving birth to a new coin.

Keep in mind that, unlike , for example, Bitcoin Cash, Sia coin has very special purpose, and for
that purpose team that would make new coin would also have to build software for storage network, too

Otherwise they'd mine coin that noone actually needs

[kaicrypzen]

There could be a new coin if a part of the community continues mining on the legacy (before the fork) chain. The fork is going to invalidate blocks mined by equipment that is currently holding ~45% of the hashrate, I don't see this mining equipment just going to trash and miners using it just accepting to throw away their now main-chain-useless miners, so in my opinion, there is a very high chance the legacy chain will be maintained hence giving birth to a new coin.

Keep in mind that, unlike , for example, Bitcoin Cash, Sia coin has very special purpose, and for
that purpose team that would make new coin would also have to build software for storage network, too

Otherwise they'd mine coin that noone actually needs

My understanding is that the sia client version 1.3.5 will support the legacy chain, and that legacy chain users are always welcome as long as they hold siafunds. Regardless, mining a coin that no one needs wouldn't be a first, and there will always be people/bots ready to trade it as long as it's on an exchange ...

[mimagneto]

There could be a new coin if a part of the community continues mining on the legacy (before the fork) chain. The fork is going to invalidate blocks mined by equipment that is currently holding ~45% of the hashrate, I don't see this mining equipment just going to trash and miners using it just accepting to throw away their now main-chain-useless miners, so in my opinion, there is a very high chance the legacy chain will be maintained hence giving birth to a new coin.

Keep in mind that, unlike , for example, Bitcoin Cash, Sia coin has very special purpose, and for
that purpose team that would make new coin would also have to build software for storage network, too

Otherwise they'd mine coin that noone actually needs

My understanding is that the sia client version 1.3.5 will support the legacy chain, and that legacy chain users are always welcome as long as they hold siafunds. Regardless, mining a coin that no one needs wouldn't be a first, and there will always be people/bots ready to trade it as long as it's on an exchange ...

Wow, this is a very interesting predicament.  It's going to be interesting to follow and see what comes of it.  It seems that if there will still be two different chains, but only one product (the new Sia Coin that is created), how will the previous chain hold value?  I understand that traders will want to continue to trade it, but how would investors view it?  I think that then the original chain coin would need to proceed with its own abilities, technologies, project, etc. for it to survive as the market cap and value will then be moved to the new Sia Coin chain.  Thus destroying the value of the original Sia Coin chain.  Interesting, indeed.

mimagneto