The function of religion ?

[axus]

Religion teaches us that existence isn't centered on yourself.

[Jimmy Chang(y)]

Religion teaches us that existence isn't centered on yourself.

So if your not religious your self centred?

[Buffer Overflow]

Remember the old 80's school slogan "Drugs, just say no."

Well, I've always followed the notion "Religion, just say no."

[axus]

Religion teaches us that existence isn't centered on yourself.

So if your not religious your self centred?

No, but religion can give a self-centered person reasons why they shouldn't be.

[foggyb]

The whole notion religion was thought up as a means to control society, where as politics has simply evolved into a means to control society. To begin with politics had rather good intentions id say. There for they differ, so for you to use my response in answer to your question of whether following a political party makes you a moron and turning that into us being on the same page because you can be part of a religion but not condone many of its actions is sly and aggravating.

If you believe, in a man made fiction, created to control other human beings, your a moron, its simple as that man, please try to explain your view point without twisting my words this time.

I sense that many pretend they are outraged only at the injustices and abuse that do happen in some religious institutions; but really, the one thing they are most offended by, in my opinion, is the idea that there is a God and that he has rules.

Admit it.  

After all, if the 1st humans were created by God, they would not only know about God, they would pass the story down to their children. If there was no God, how could you prevent the truth from getting out? Since evolution allegedly started with two humans, one male and one female, who exactly are they trying to control when they invented religion?

If there truly was no God, there would be a vocal majority of people who would testify that their ancestors never told any such stories of creation or God. Where are these people? I cannot recall to mind any society which does not have some form of creation and God legends in their history.

If there were such a society, and there was indeed no God, they would flourish unimpeded by the advantages of not "wasting" time and resources with religion, to dominate the whole world. Eventually eradicating all religious beliefs entirely.

Since evolution theory claims humanity has existed with the mental capacity for religion (and the debunking of it) for tens of thousands (if not hundreds of thousands) of years, where is this super race that is free of the heavy yoke of a supreme creator?

If the simplest answer is usually true, I submit that the function of religion is very simply humanity's (flawed) effort to acknowledge and worship the true and living God.

[Jimmy Chang(y)]

The whole notion religion was thought up as a means to control society, where as politics has simply evolved into a means to control society. To begin with politics had rather good intentions id say. There for they differ, so for you to use my response in answer to your question of whether following a political party makes you a moron and turning that into us being on the same page because you can be part of a religion but not condone many of its actions is sly and aggravating.

If you believe, in a man made fiction, created to control other human beings, your a moron, its simple as that man, please try to explain your view point without twisting my words this time.

I sense that many pretend they are outraged only at the injustices and abuse that do happen in some religious institutions; but really, the one thing they are most offended by, in my opinion, is the idea that there is a God and that he has rules.

Admit it.  

After all, if the 1st humans were created by God, they would not only know about God, they would pass the story down to their children. If there was no God, how could you prevent the truth from getting out? Since evolution allegedly started with two humans, one male and one female, who exactly are they trying to control when they invented religion?

If there truly was no God, there would be a vocal majority of people who would testify that their ancestors never told any such stories of creation or God. Where are these people? I cannot recall to mind any society which does not have some form of creation and God legends in their history.

If there were such a society, and there was indeed no God, they would flourish unimpeded by the advantages of not "wasting" time and resources with religion, and dominate the whole world. Eventually eradicating all religious beliefs entirely.

Since evolution theory claims humanity has existed with the mental capacity for religion (and the debunking of it) for tens of thousands (if not hundreds of thousands) of years, where is this super race that is free of the heavy yoke of a supreme creator?

If the simplest answer is usually true, I submit that the function of religion is very simply humanity's (flawed) effort to acknowledge and worship the true and living God.

Im not sure why your arguing the existence of a God with me? I said 1 page back they may or may not be a god and I can see why people could get drawn to either side of the fence.

My issue is with organised Religion, nothing more than a form of control, sure its become more than that now for some, but in essence thats all it is.

[Jimmy Chang(y)]

Sorry I say organised religion, which is a sweeping statement to make, Buddhism is a great example of a religion that wasnt created to control and manipulate, Catholicism, Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Mormonism yadda yadda however, not so much. Pretty obvious that this shit was thought up by some power perverts.

[Jimmy Chang(y)]

Religion teaches us that existence isn't centered on yourself.

So if your not religious your self centred?

No, but religion can give a self-centered person reasons why they shouldn't be.

Yeah I find things such as having kids, family and friends for example, tend to be better at pointing out that life isnt all about you than any religion.

[foggyb]

Im not sure why your arguing the existence of a God with me? I said 1 page back they may or may not be a god and I can see why people could get drawn to either side of the fence.

My issue is with organised Religion, nothing more than a form of control, sure its become more than that now for some, but in essence thats all it is.

It may or may not apply to you, depending if you're on topic or not. See this quote from OP:

I'm an atheist and have the following standpoint:

 - All religions are hoaxes, making people belive in non-existing gods.

I believe my points are on topic exactly.

[Luno]

Chang without twisting your words: You say you don't question people who believe in a "god" like, present or past, existence. They might be wrong or they might be right, which I agree with as I Don't know for sure either.

You believe all religious society's are corrupt and either the government or a tool for a government. You are absolutely right, which I also stated. I can think of a few monasteries and small independent communities that for sure are very unlikely to be corrupt or a tool. The might get secret donations and have a fortune, but probably don't have any hidden sinister agenda.

In my case, Jesus was a real historical person. The descriptions of him are very real but likely edited or censored, also from other religion historical sources there are a lot of descriptions of quite commonplace things in his life. Jesus was a Jew and a lot of his ideology and ethics bear resemblance to that. He also had an attitude problem that got him into trouble. So the Christian bible is a story about how to perceive other people with respect and brotherly love (very Jewish). Further it talks about how to say no to oppression and corruption. Very much up my alley.

What the fusion of Roman state power did when acknowledging Christianity was to twist it to it's purpose of control. But the message still survives, That's why I claim that the corruption in a religion not per se makes it followers stupid, the clever ones adapt to the new masters also but remembers what it is all about.

I know very little of Islam but young Mohammed was a street kid, (lost, maybe criminal depending on interpretation). He sought membership in a Christian community but was turned down (uptight Christians, even then). Later on, while on the run from prosecution, he found refuge in a Christian church in north Africa. Muslims also acknowledge Jesus as a profet of Allah, though they disagree on the "son of God" part. (some capable Muslim please correct me if I'm wrong on any of this). My point being that the roots of the 3 major religions are intertwined and bear a kind of common wisdom, which in my view, adds to each others credibility historically and context vise, no need to judge any of them right or wrong. Further a lot of European culture and society is based on Christian ethics and values which is great common good that we should not forget.

So my take on religion is twofold. It's an important lesson to be told about humanity and it helps me on a personal level to be the person I want to be.

My personal concept of God is a personal one one I don't often share and don't need to share to get some kind of ratification from others.

That's why I say that we don't disagree that much, maybe only on the part about wiping any religion of the surface of the earth, but as you state yourself, doing so would make politics or other powers take it's place with it's own gods.

Cheres

[Jimmy Chang(y)]

Sorry im a bit slow  And cranky

[Luno]

Well enough Chang. Something that takes hours posting on a forum, could be sorted over a beer in a minute.

[foggyb]

Jesus was a Jew and a lot of his ideology and ethics bear resemblance to that. He also had an attitude problem that got him into trouble. So the Christian bible is a story about how to perceive other people with respect and brotherly love (very Jewish). Further it talks about how to say no to oppression and corruption. Very much up my alley.

Jesus manipulated the Jewish leadership into crucifying him, fulfilling the many exact prophecies of Daniel made 400 years earlier. They did not want to do away with Jesus on the Sabbath in order to prevent an uprising, but he forced their hand by revealing the identity of their inside man (Judas). Jesus didn't have an attitude problem, he knew precisely what he was doing, and saying.

[Luno]

Great, someone actually knows religion history. I was trying to underline real life aspect in historical sources, not that good on the details myself as I wished for.... Looked op the Book of Daniel. Are you talking about the dreams of Nebukanedser? I only thought it was about the coming of Israel and God saving the Jewish people not very specific on how. Do you have chapter / verse for it?

[Luno]

Senbonzakura: It think the authorized interpretation in the Koran is that he was lost i.e. had not found god yet. Some early Koran versions uses different wordings for this suggesting that he was in "trouble" as in with the law. As stated I'm no qualified to evaluate Islamic historical sources myself. The info I got from an article some years ago. I can't remember by whom. Someone can confirm or deny this I think.

[foggyb]

Great, someone actually knows religion history. I was trying to underline real life aspect in historical sources, not that good on the details myself as I wished for.... Looked op the Book of Daniel. Are you talking about the dreams of Nebukanedser? I only thought it was about the coming of Israel and God saving the Jewish people not very specific on how. Do you have chapter / verse for it?

This is quoted from allaboutthejourney.org.


The Book of Daniel was written 500 years before the birth of Jesus. In Chapter 9, Daniel predicts the very day that the Messiah would enter Jerusalem and present himself as king for the first time. The prophecy states that 69 weeks of years (69 x 7 = 483 years) would pass from the decree to rebuild Jerusalem until the coming of the Messiah. 3 Since Daniel was written in Babylon during the Jewish captivity after the fall of Jerusalem, this prophecy was based on the Babylonian 360-day calendar. Thus, 483 years x 360 days = 173,880 days.

According to records found in the Shushan (Susa) Palace, and confirmed in Nehemiah 2:1, the decree to rebuild Jerusalem was issued by the Persian king, Artaxerxes Longimanus, on March 5, 444 BC. Remarkably, 173,880 days later (adjusting for leap years), on March 30, 33 AD, Jesus rode into Jerusalem on a donkey (fulfilling the prophecy in Zechariah 9:9).4 Five days later, Jesus was crucified on a Roman cross just outside Jerusalem. (Actually, the form of his execution and even his last words were foretold hundreds of years earlier in Psalm 22.) Three days later, the New Testament accounts declare that Jesus rose from the dead on Easter Sunday, fulfilling numerous other prophecies of the long-awaited Messiah.


Here's another good link: http://www.ukapologetics.net/2danieltrue.html

[foggyb]

Wayne Jackson wrote this:

The prophetical details set forth in Daniel are astounding. If we may paraphrase Newton (in his discussion of the period from Alexander’s death to the reign of Antiochus), there is no historical record so complete, and none so concise and comprehensive, as that given by Daniel. No single writer has related so many circumstances, in such exact order of time, as Daniel foretold them. He, even in prophecy, is more perfect than any single historical account – Greek, Roman or Jewish!

[Luno]

Thanks Foggyb: Daniel made a lot of predictions and was very specific about Jesus. I don't think all of it is kosher with the Vatican, but that besides the point. Thank you.

and to senbonzakura: I tried to Google this, but did not have much success. You'll have to ask an Imam or scholar. I think the author of the article was from Germany.

nighty night.

[foggyb]

Thanks Foggyb: Daniel made a lot of predictions and was very specific about Jesus. I don't think all of it is kosher with the Vatican, but that besides the point. Thank you.

and to senbonzakura: I tried to Google this, but did not have much success. You'll have to ask an Imam or scholar. I think the author of the article was from Germany.

nighty night.

You're welcome.

Although, let me add that a prediction is not the same thing as prophecy.

In ancient Israel, if a prophet of God made a short-term 'prediction' that didn't come true, he was stoned to death.

[Rassah]

I sense that many pretend they are outraged only at the injustices and abuse that do happen in some religious institutions; but really, the one thing they are most offended by, in my opinion, is the idea that there is a God and that he has rules.

Admit it.  

The only reason you are outraged and offended by leprechauns is because you know they are stealing your shiny things.
Admit it.

If there truly was no God, there would be a vocal majority of people who would testify that their ancestors never told any such stories of creation or God. Where are these people? I cannot recall to mind any society which does not have some form of creation and God legends in their history.

If there were such a society, and there was indeed no God, they would flourish unimpeded by the advantages of not "wasting" time and resources with religion, to dominate the whole world. Eventually eradicating all religious beliefs entirely.

Such a society would be too focused on happily living their lives and trying to make their lives better (like the modern secular countries, and unlike the modern religious countries), NOT trying to dominate others. On the other hand,
Christianity/Judaism/Islam wasted a lot of resources trying to figure out how to torture and kill anyone who didn't believe in their crap. So obviously the group that believes in illogical crap that tell them to kill others because a magic sky voice told them to will eradicate the rational society that believes people should be left alone to live however they want.

Religion teaches us that existence isn't centered on yourself.

So if your not religious your self centred?

No, but religion can give a self-centered person reasons why they shouldn't be.

You know what else can? Santa Claus.

Further a lot of European culture and society is based on Christian ethics and values which is great common good that we should not forget.

*cough* um, I was fairly sure it was paganism throughout most of Europe, and Norse gods in the colder parts. At least until Christianity came through and maimed and killed anyone who didn't believe the same as the Christians.