The function of religion ?

[dank]

Strata, it was a legitimate question, that you still haven't answered.

Jimmy, I don't think I have a superior understanding, first of all.  Superiority is relative and not really the right word, I believe I have a higher understanding of the universe/god, because it makes very much sense to me and I have had divine experiences to make me feel such a way.

I'm aware they may seem ridiculous to others, but to others, they are not.  My life has been nothing short of an ego death experience, which is what gave me the connection to my conscious mind.

I mean, what if I'm right, and these answers I've uncovered with my consciousness are true?  I'm not the only person to have thought of this stuff.  It'd be nice if people could at least point out the flaw in my philosophy rather than calling it names.

[bb113]

If dank is younger (~<20) then I think he is in the right place. I predict next he will realize that all philosophers do is argue endlessly without ever really figuring anything out. There are better strategies that produce useful tech along the way as well.

[dank]

But I've figured much out.

[CJGoodings]

The answer to the threads question is simple, its control.

[bb113]

But I've figured much out.

You have figured much out in your own opinion, every brain/consciousness is different, some are even faulty or otherwise bad at figuring things out (eg alzheimers). You can only trust one brain so far.

[bb113]

You also may just be stuck in a local maximum (of probability of being right), but have not explored the entire space of possibilities. Other people with different starting points and different paths may be stuck in their own local maxima, the only way to judge which is "right" is if all brains agree (converge) on the same answer, which may take infinite time (so is impossible for mortals). Consciousness trying to understand the universe is just like a huge markov chain monte carlo experiment.

[dank]

You also may just be stuck in a local maximum (of probability of being right), but have not explored the entire space of possibilities. Other people with different starting points and different paths may be stuck in their own local maxima, the only way to judge which is "right" is if all brains agree (converge) on the same answer, which may take infinite time (so is impossible for mortals). Consciousness trying to understand the universe is just like a huge markov chain monte carlo experiment.

That's the basis of spirituality, finding your own path to find the same truth.  In no way is it impossible for our species to become like-minded, time is an illusory boundary.  And consciousness grasps itself fine, it's the ego that's in need of lessons.

[dank]

Now, 20 years later, I'm slowly starting to realise the reason for them being silent = one can't truly help anyone but himself only.
I witness that myself more and more as time goes by. I can help and others can help me, but only with actualy unimportant matter.

This is very much true, although I believe one may help one help them self, if they're in the proper receptive state.

[bb113]

You also may just be stuck in a local maximum (of probability of being right), but have not explored the entire space of possibilities. Other people with different starting points and different paths may be stuck in their own local maxima, the only way to judge which is "right" is if all brains agree (converge) on the same answer, which may take infinite time (so is impossible for mortals). Consciousness trying to understand the universe is just like a huge markov chain monte carlo experiment.

That's the basis of spirituality, finding your own path to find the same truth.  In no way is it impossible for our species to become like-minded, time is an illusory boundary.  And consciousness grasps itself fine, it's the ego that's in need of lessons.

Good point, individuals are mortal, while species are not. To keep my mcmc analogy going, each species is it's own chain, each individual/brain/consciousness/ego is a unique genetic (in the computer science and biological sense) algorithm that samples from the space of possibilities. This is how I look at it:



The challenge here was to fit a curve with 3 parameters to some data, you can see that the chains all converged quickly onto one point, but failed to explore the entire set of possibilities (avoided areas of low probability, although the best answer may have been found surrounded by unlikely answers). The more challenging task of understanding the universe, existence, etc has many more dimensions, and there are many more chains exploring this space some branching off others at certain points, and they are not all independent of each other.

Your brain probably agrees with the machine:

[dank]

Well, space is also an illusion of our reality, so I don't know what exactly to say to that.  Debating spirituality with science doesn't really work, on either end.

[bb113]

I mean space as in the set of possibilities of ways to describe the universe, not physical space.

[dank]

But you're using a chart to describe philosophy, I think words more effectively convey ideas, in this case.

[bb113]

But you're using a chart to describe philosophy, I think words more effectively convey ideas, in this case.

By using a chart I'm using the analogy of space. If I understand you correctly, another way to say "space is an illusion" is that it is an artifact of the way humans interact with their environment.

Doesn't communicating with words have the same failing?

[dank]

Yes, words only have meaning based on what we give them.  But words can still have meaning and the ability to transfer energy, as words are sound frequencies.  What exactly are you suggesting your chart proves?  It could be a 2D graph and there would still be infinite points of possibility.

[bb113]

Yes, words only have meaning based on what we give them.  But words can still have meaning and the ability to transfer energy, as words are sound frequencies.  What exactly are you suggesting your chart proves?  It could be a 2D graph and there would still be infinite points of possibility.

I don't think it proves anything, it's just an attempt to convey the way I view reality at a really macro level. I disagree there are likely an infinite number of possibilities. The fractal nature I have observed of in my subset of universe  makes me think it is more plausible there is some sort of bounds on what is possible at all levels, even the largest. Whether anyone can ever know them or not is a different matter

[Rassah]

Hey, um, if the complete truth and all the important questions are answered after death, after we transcend our bodies and become just consciousness, then what are you guys waiting for?

[bb113]

You also may just be stuck in a local maximum (of probability of being right), but have not explored the entire space of possibilities. Other people with different starting points and different paths may be stuck in their own local maxima, the only way to judge which is "right" is if all brains agree (converge) on the same answer, which may take infinite time (so is impossible for mortals). Consciousness trying to understand the universe is just like a huge markov chain monte carlo experiment.

At the age of 20 or so I got few Zen books in my hand and attempted to understand the whole Zen thing. Of course, I failed
big time. For all things, there's "too early" moment. One must be ready. At that time, I was not ready to fully understand most
issues with Zen, one of them being monks who willingly isolated themselves for prolonged period of time (to reduce distractions)
and who, after coming back to civilization, refused and still refuse to speak.

Now, 20 years later, I'm slowly starting to realise the reason for them being silent = one can't truly help anyone but himself only.
I witness that myself more and more as time goes by. I can help and others can help me, but only with actualy unimportant matter.

Really funny thing is that SHUT THE FUCK UP might actualy be the best advice one can give out, ever!  

Sorry forgot to respond:
 It sounds like the end result of Zen is similar to cynicism. There's too many things wrong with the world for that in my opinion. Spread your memes like you spread your genes.

[Jimmy Chang(y)]

Strata, it was a legitimate question, that you still haven't answered.

Jimmy, I don't think I have a superior understanding, first of all.  Superiority is relative and not really the right word, I believe I have a higher understanding of the universe/god, because it makes very much sense to me and I have had divine experiences to make me feel such a way.

I'm aware they may seem ridiculous to others, but to others, they are not.  My life has been nothing short of an ego death experience, which is what gave me the connection to my conscious mind.

I mean, what if I'm right, and these answers I've uncovered with my consciousness are true?  I'm not the only person to have thought of this stuff.  It'd be nice if people could at least point out the flaw in my philosophy rather than calling it names.

Ive pointed many holes in your "philosophy" but you've decided to concentrate on the attacks instead. Try with a modicum of logic to back up your idea's, all I see is you projecting your own opinions as fact and anyone who disagree's with you just 'doesn't understand'.

As for "I mean, what if I'm right, and these answers I've uncovered with my consciousness are true?  I'm not the only person to have thought of this stuff." - this is a prime example of just how stupid you are dank, you conclude because you have an opinion and others agree with your opinion, there for this is some evidence for your opinion to be 'right'?  So whats your opinion on Hitler? Back in 1930s there where millions of Germans who agreed with his opinions, so he must of been right? right? 

You remind me of a close friend I have, I used to blaze with him all the time, turns out all that weed fucked him up real good and he got so detached from reality and out of touch with what was real he just chats hypothetical nonsense all the time, in much the same fashion you have been.

Maybe lay off the dank for a while, its not for everyone. Clearly.

[dank]

Strata, it was a legitimate question, that you still haven't answered.

Jimmy, I don't think I have a superior understanding, first of all.  Superiority is relative and not really the right word, I believe I have a higher understanding of the universe/god, because it makes very much sense to me and I have had divine experiences to make me feel such a way.

I'm aware they may seem ridiculous to others, but to others, they are not.  My life has been nothing short of an ego death experience, which is what gave me the connection to my conscious mind.

I mean, what if I'm right, and these answers I've uncovered with my consciousness are true?  I'm not the only person to have thought of this stuff.  It'd be nice if people could at least point out the flaw in my philosophy rather than calling it names.

Ive pointed many holes in your "philosophy" but you've decided to concentrate on the attacks instead. Try with a modicum of logic to back up your idea's, all I see is you projecting your own opinions as fact and anyone who disagree's with you just 'doesn't understand'.

As for "I mean, what if I'm right, and these answers I've uncovered with my consciousness are true?  I'm not the only person to have thought of this stuff." - this is a prime example of just how stupid you are dank, you conclude because you have an opinion and others agree with your opinion, there for this is some evidence for your opinion to be 'right'?  So whats your opinion on Hitler? Back in 1930s there where millions of Germans who agreed with his opinions, so he must of been right? right? 

You remind me of a close friend I have, I used to blaze with him all the time, turns out all that weed fucked him up real good and he got so detached from reality and out of touch with what was real he just chats hypothetical nonsense all the time, in much the same fashion you have been.

Maybe lay off the dank for a while, its not for everyone. Clearly.

?

I'm not saying I'm right because I share a similar opinion, I'm saying I'm right because I have discovered the same things, inside of my self, that others have done across many cultures.  The truth lay within.

If someone would point out a hole in my philosophy, about spiritualism, I'd be glad to listen.  That has yet to happen.

[Jimmy Chang(y)]

Strata, it was a legitimate question, that you still haven't answered.

Jimmy, I don't think I have a superior understanding, first of all.  Superiority is relative and not really the right word, I believe I have a higher understanding of the universe/god, because it makes very much sense to me and I have had divine experiences to make me feel such a way.

I'm aware they may seem ridiculous to others, but to others, they are not.  My life has been nothing short of an ego death experience, which is what gave me the connection to my conscious mind.

I mean, what if I'm right, and these answers I've uncovered with my consciousness are true?  I'm not the only person to have thought of this stuff.  It'd be nice if people could at least point out the flaw in my philosophy rather than calling it names.

Ive pointed many holes in your "philosophy" but you've decided to concentrate on the attacks instead. Try with a modicum of logic to back up your idea's, all I see is you projecting your own opinions as fact and anyone who disagree's with you just 'doesn't understand'.

As for "I mean, what if I'm right, and these answers I've uncovered with my consciousness are true?  I'm not the only person to have thought of this stuff." - this is a prime example of just how stupid you are dank, you conclude because you have an opinion and others agree with your opinion, there for this is some evidence for your opinion to be 'right'?  So whats your opinion on Hitler? Back in 1930s there where millions of Germans who agreed with his opinions, so he must of been right? right? 

You remind me of a close friend I have, I used to blaze with him all the time, turns out all that weed fucked him up real good and he got so detached from reality and out of touch with what was real he just chats hypothetical nonsense all the time, in much the same fashion you have been.

Maybe lay off the dank for a while, its not for everyone. Clearly.

?

I'm not saying I'm right because I share a similar opinion, I'm saying I'm right because I have discovered the same things, inside of my self, that others have done across many cultures.  The truth lay within.

If someone would point out a hole in my philosophy, about spiritualism, I'd be glad to listen.  That has yet to happen.

But you have not discovered anything, merely voiced your own interpretation on what god is. That is not a discovery, it is an opinion. I think we're done here dank, your like talking to a brick wall.

The truth doesnt lay within either, seriously the amount of bullshit you spout.

truth   [trooth]  Show IPA
noun, plural truths  [troothz, trooths]  Show IPA.
1.
the true  or actual state of a matter: He tried to find out the truth.
2.
conformity with fact or reality; verity: the truth of a statement.
3.
a verified or indisputable fact, proposition, principle, or the like: mathematical truths.
4.
the state or character of being true.
5.
actuality or actual existence.

Clearly anything from within is not going to be truth, as every single person is different, each will have their own 'truth' hence making the word truth obsolete by its own definitions, so no, the truth does not lie within, your own OPINIONS and INTERPRETATION do however.

Like I said im done, frustrating as fuck. Someone needs to beat some sense into you boy