Quickseller escrowing for himself

[Quickseller]

Quickseller's reputation:

[]http://orig00.deviantart.net/d4e7/f/2012/247/6/b/and_it_s_gone_by_celeith-d5div3y.jpg[/img]

Really? Do you seriously think the ~$12 in escrow fees (that I promptly refunded BTW) is sufficient cause for the multiple negative trust ratings that I have received? 

perhaps not but the perception of you isn't good right now.  The more you post here, the more it seems you rub people the wrong way.
All the attacks on tsp, the 5 BTC bet thing (what the heck was that about), you're adding fuel to the fire.

What attacks on tsp? I left him a single rating several months ago, removed it after a large amount of trolling (despite still feeling that he is a scammer), then added it back on when the trolling only got worse. TSP did receive a tip in advance from someone who knew with certainty that QS and panthers were the same person, and used his "tests" to "prove" we were the same person.....a number of others were similarly tipped off via brand new/newbie accounts that I was not banned before it was confirmed by BadBear (in any way).....this is something that I know for a fact.

maybe attack is too strong a word, I think my post echoed the current sentiment. maybe I'm wrong

Well to put my original point in another way, the ~$12 in question is most likely an amount that is significantly less then amounts that I have likely prevented other from having stolen from them by scammers on a daily (or other short term measurement) basis. Neither of the people I was dealing with while acting as escrow for myself ever had any money at risk of being lost and they both overall were happy with the resolution of the transaction.

RE: tsp, if anything I have been the recipient of the harassment over the past several months. Like I said, I left a negative rating against him for stealing, and he increased the level of trolling against me significantly.....to the point that he was told he was creating too many threads, and to the point of being banned for posting off-topic about me.

[jonald_fyookball]

Quickseller's reputation:

[]http://orig00.deviantart.net/d4e7/f/2012/247/6/b/and_it_s_gone_by_celeith-d5div3y.jpg[/img]

Really? Do you seriously think the ~$12 in escrow fees (that I promptly refunded BTW) is sufficient cause for the multiple negative trust ratings that I have received? 

perhaps not but the perception of you isn't good right now.  The more you post here, the more it seems you rub people the wrong way.
All the attacks on tsp, the 5 BTC bet thing (what the heck was that about), you're adding fuel to the fire.

What attacks on tsp? I left him a single rating several months ago, removed it after a large amount of trolling (despite still feeling that he is a scammer), then added it back on when the trolling only got worse. TSP did receive a tip in advance from someone who knew with certainty that QS and panthers were the same person, and used his "tests" to "prove" we were the same person.....a number of others were similarly tipped off via brand new/newbie accounts that I was not banned before it was confirmed by BadBear (in any way).....this is something that I know for a fact.

maybe attack is too strong a word, I think my post echoed the current sentiment. maybe I'm wrong

Well to put my original point in another way, the ~$12 in question is most likely an amount that is significantly less then amounts that I have likely prevented other from having stolen from them by scammers on a daily (or other short term measurement) basis. Neither of the people I was dealing with while acting as escrow for myself ever had any money at risk of being lost and they both overall were happy with the resolution of the transaction.

RE: tsp, if anything I have been the recipient of the harassment over the past several months. Like I said, I left a negative rating against him for stealing, and he increased the level of trolling against me significantly.....to the point that he was told he was creating too many threads, and to the point of being banned for posting off-topic about me.

[Quickseller]

Quickseller's reputation:

[]http://orig00.deviantart.net/d4e7/f/2012/247/6/b/and_it_s_gone_by_celeith-d5div3y.jpg[/img]

Really? Do you seriously think the ~$12 in escrow fees (that I promptly refunded BTW) is sufficient cause for the multiple negative trust ratings that I have received? 

perhaps not but the perception of you isn't good right now.  The more you post here, the more it seems you rub people the wrong way.
All the attacks on tsp, the 5 BTC bet thing (what the heck was that about), you're adding fuel to the fire.

What attacks on tsp? I left him a single rating several months ago, removed it after a large amount of trolling (despite still feeling that he is a scammer), then added it back on when the trolling only got worse. TSP did receive a tip in advance from someone who knew with certainty that QS and panthers were the same person, and used his "tests" to "prove" we were the same person.....a number of others were similarly tipped off via brand new/newbie accounts that I was not banned before it was confirmed by BadBear (in any way).....this is something that I know for a fact.

maybe attack is too strong a word, I think my post echoed the current sentiment. maybe I'm wrong

Well to put my original point in another way, the ~$12 in question is most likely an amount that is significantly less then amounts that I have likely prevented other from having stolen from them by scammers on a daily (or other short term measurement) basis. Neither of the people I was dealing with while acting as escrow for myself ever had any money at risk of being lost and they both overall were happy with the resolution of the transaction.

RE: tsp, if anything I have been the recipient of the harassment over the past several months. Like I said, I left a negative rating against him for stealing, and he increased the level of trolling against me significantly.....to the point that he was told he was creating too many threads, and to the point of being banned for posting off-topic about me.

[]http://demilovato.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Screen-Shot-2014-07-01-at-9.53.18-AM.png[/img]

But you do think that someone who "took down" someone who *may* have misappropriated ~$12 is deserving to be shown as trustworthy....

[worhiper_-_]

[Pierre11]

LMFAO! SUCK IT QUICKSELLER!

post of the year. quickseller sucks dick lmfaoo

[Coinonomous]

What attacks on tsp? I left him a single rating several months ago, removed it after a large amount of trolling (despite still feeling that he is a scammer), then added it back on when the trolling only got worse. TSP did receive a tip in advance from someone who knew with certainty that QS and panthers were the same person, and used his "tests" to "prove" we were the same person.....a number of others were similarly tipped off via brand new/newbie accounts that I was not banned before it was confirmed by BadBear (in any way).....this is something that I know for a fact.

Wow. Ok. Can you you tell us who exactly these accounts are alts of, or, even better, who told you about them etc?

Your answer here is very tricky, so be careful quickscammer.. & others un-named. You know who you are.

 

[jonald_fyookball]

But you do think that someone who "took down" someone who *may* have misappropriated ~$12 is deserving to be shown as trustworthy....

If you're referring to my positive trust for tsp, first of all, it was more about negating Wardrick's bad judgement more than anything else.  Second of all, a person is only as trustworthy as their last interaction.

Anyway, I didn't neg you, so not sure why you're trying to convince me of something.  Not interested in a debate here.

[TheButterZone]

Quoting my posts from the now-locked poll topic...

1 out of 2 exclusive parties to a trade, cannot be the escrow agent by definition. Regardless of whether restitution was made, fraud occurred if 1 out of 2 exclusive parties pretended to be an escrow agent. Defending the indefensible ad infinitum justifies a lifetime permaban of all accounts.

WTF?

I'm going to need a PGP-clearsigned YES or NO answer, from Quickseller, to the following question:
Did you, Quickseller, engage in 1 or more trades where any party other than you was led to believe that there were 3 parties with 3 different DNA profiles involved in the trade (1-buyer, 2-seller 3-escrow agent), but in reality there were only 2?

YES or NO?

Did I lead anyone to believe that a trade I was acting as escrow[1] for had 3 distinct DNA profiles[2]? No. Any trade that I acted as a middle man (or as some like to say "escrow"), no explicit, nor implicit statement was made by myself saying that I was not a party to the trade. Any agreement that I had sent out said something along the lines that party (b) should send a certain amount of money to a particular BTC address, once party (s) saw that such an amount was sent to that address they should send a certain amount of money and/or goods and/or services to party (b), and once party (b) is in receipt of the above mentioned currency and/or goods and/or services they should authorize the release of the funds being held to party (s) who would then receive a certain amount of BTC to the address of their choice; and in the event of a dispute I would attempt to mediate such dispute, and if it would not be abundantly clear as to what a fair resolution would be then a scam accusation would be opened to consult the overall community. Nowhere was the words "3rd" (except for potentially the date or similar), or "neutral" were used.

[1]According to the link you provided one definition of "escrow" is:

[MASS NOUN] The state of being kept in custody or trust until a specified condition has been fulfilled:

Funds were kept in my custody of a specific BTC address until at least when specified conditions were fufilled

You failed on multiple levels (moral, ethical, legal, common sense, etc.), not the least of which was answering my binary question with a binary answer.

"or as some like to say "escrow""
You yourself use the term escrow in your Personal Text:
 "Safe and professional escrow goo.gl/ZI2m0Q"

But if we're going to use your second term "middle man", regardless of whether restitution was made, fraud occurred if 1 out of 2 exclusive parties pretended to be a middleman.

A person who arranges business or political deals between other people.

You are not simultaneously yourself and an other person.

The protective care or guardianship of someone or something: the property was placed in the custody of a trustee

Law An individual person or member of a board given control or powers of administration of property in trust with a legal obligation to administer it solely for the purposes specified: pension fund trustees

You are not simultaneously yourself and individual person other than yourself.

[2]I have no idea what the DNA profiles were of any of the people I traded with, nor any of the people that I was acting as a middle man/escrow for. As I never requested, nor received their DNA profiles, and although unlikely, it is possible that a trade I engaged in only involved one DNA profile (I have no reason to believe this to be the case however).

The context you were replying to in the above quote included YOU in the 3 distinct DNA profiles of a 3 party trade. So the only possible way for "a trade {you} engaged in only involved one DNA profile" is that you either dealt with your multiple personalities (in the psychological sense, not the alt username sense), or you were dealing with AIs (that had no human involvement other than the initial coding which had nothing to with trading, prior to the AI's self-evolution into being able to trade), or your multiple personality & AI. Oh, and it's also "possible" those who have an identical DNA profile as you.

STOP DEFENDING THE INDEFENSIBLE.

[dooglus]

Really? Do you seriously think the ~$12 in escrow fees (that I promptly refunded BTW) is sufficient cause for the multiple negative trust ratings that I have received?

Didn't you leave multiple negative trust ratings for tsp over less than $12 that his bot earned on coinchat?

Karma is a bitch, eh?

What attacks on tsp? I left him a single rating several months ago, removed it after a large amount of trolling (despite still feeling that he is a scammer), then added it back on when the trolling only got worse.

A single rating? You left multiple ratings against him.

TSP did receive a tip in advance from someone who knew with certainty that QS and panthers were the same person, and used his "tests" to "prove" we were the same person.....

No tip was needed. You were clearly the same person. I don't think you could have made it much more obvious.

[Quickseller]

@TBZ - I am sorry if my actions are something that you do not approve of. I repeat this same statement to anyone else who does not approve of my actions. I am not going to repeat my arguments as to why I believe that escrowing for yourself is okay because I have echo'ed them many times across multiple threads and for the most part they have mostly been ignored. There have also been no logical and/or factual arguments that counter any of my arguments, but rather nothing but trolls, scammers and shit posters who in no way address my arguments.

At the end of the day, what I did was a result of my witnessing of similar activity by one of the most, if not the most trusted and respected member of the community doing what was essentially the exact same thing out in the open and without consequence. I had posted in the thread where this was happening out in the open multiple times, so it is difficult to say that I was unaware of the situation.

If there are no rules regarding how people can and cannot conduct their own business, then how can you argue that someone who is conducting business in similar ways to one of the most trusted people in the community in the open months after he had done so is in the wrong?

[onemorexmr]

There have also been no logical and/or factual arguments that counter any of my arguments, but rather nothing but trolls, scammers and shit posters who in no way address my arguments.

ROFL
95% of bitcointalk are trolls, scammers and shitposters now?
just not sharing your opinion and trying to convince you that a dictionary is more trustworthy than you makes you think that?

[Quickseller]

Really? Do you seriously think the ~$12 in escrow fees (that I promptly refunded BTW) is sufficient cause for the multiple negative trust ratings that I have received?

Didn't you leave multiple negative trust ratings for tsp over less than $12 that his bot earned on coinchat?

No. He stole ~.5BTC. He refused to repay any of the stolen money. When confronted about the theft, he started intimidating the person who confronted him instead of countering any of the relevant facts. Both at the time of the uncovering of the original theft and now, the person who tspacepilot stole from says that he is a scammer.

On the other hand, I quickly repaid those who asked for their money back. The people who dealt with me said they did not feel that my business practices were any kind of a scam. Do you see the difference?

Karma is a bitch, eh?

Why exactly do you bring up karma? You aren't related to tsp in any way are you? I cannot see any other reason why someone would be sticking up for someone so strongly if it was otherwise.

TSP did receive a tip in advance from someone who knew with certainty that QS and panthers were the same person, and used his "tests" to "prove" we were the same person.....

No tip was needed. You were clearly the same person. I don't think you could have made it much more obvious.

He was specifically aware that Panthers52 and QS were the same person long before he opened this thread. It was far from obvious as of that point in time.

[dooglus]

Really? Do you seriously think the ~$12 in escrow fees (that I promptly refunded BTW) is sufficient cause for the multiple negative trust ratings that I have received?

Didn't you leave multiple negative trust ratings for tsp over less than $12 that his bot earned on coinchat?

No. He stole ~.5BTC. He refused to repay any of the stolen money. When confronted about the theft, he started intimidating the person who confronted him instead of countering any of the relevant facts. Both at the time of the uncovering of the original theft and now, the person who tspacepilot stole from says that he is a scammer.

On the other hand, I quickly repaid those who asked for their money back. The people who dealt with me said they did not feel that my business practices were any kind of a scam. Do you see the difference?

Karma is a bitch, eh?

Why exactly do you bring up karma? You aren't related to tsp in any way are you? I cannot see any other reason why someone would be sticking up for someone so strongly if it was otherwise.

TSP did receive a tip in advance from someone who knew with certainty that QS and panthers were the same person, and used his "tests" to "prove" we were the same person.....

No tip was needed. You were clearly the same person. I don't think you could have made it much more obvious.

He was specifically aware that Panthers52 and QS were the same person long before he opened this thread. It was far from obvious as of that point in time.

I see the difference. But it's ironic that you think it's OK for you to scam $12 from your victims when it's apparently not OK for tsp to accidentally earn a similar amount from coinchat with a bot. What makes you think the amount in question is 0.5 BTC?

I'm not related to tsp in any way. I'm sticking up for him because you're bullying him.

You deleted the part where I called you out for lying about the number of accounts you left negative trust from:

What attacks on tsp? I left him a single rating several months ago, removed it after a large amount of trolling (despite still feeling that he is a scammer), then added it back on when the trolling only got worse.

A single rating? You left multiple ratings against him.

[dooglus]

At the end of the day, what I did was a result of my witnessing of similar activity by one of the most, if not the most trusted and respected member of the community doing what was essentially the exact same thing out in the open and without consequence. I had posted in the thread where this was happening out in the open multiple times, so it is difficult to say that I was unaware of the situation.

You still don't get it.

Escrowing for yourself out in the open isn't what you did. You escrowed for yourself in secret.

[jonald_fyookball]

@TBZ - I am sorry if my actions are something that you do not approve of. I repeat this same statement to anyone else who does not approve of my actions. I am not going to repeat my arguments as to why I believe that escrowing for yourself is okay because I have echo'ed them many times across multiple threads and for the most part they have mostly been ignored. There have also been no logical and/or factual arguments that counter any of my arguments, but rather nothing but trolls, scammers and shit posters who in no way address my arguments.

At the end of the day, what I did was a result of my witnessing of similar activity by one of the most, if not the most trusted and respected member of the community doing what was essentially the exact same thing out in the open and without consequence. I had posted in the thread where this was happening out in the open multiple times, so it is difficult to say that I was unaware of the situation.

If there are no rules regarding how people can and cannot conduct their own business, then how can you argue that someone who is conducting business in similar ways to one of the most trusted people in the community in the open months after he had done so is in the wrong?

Escrowing for yourself isn't okay because by definition an escrow is a neutral third party.  
It's been logically explained to you by numerous people.  TC isn't right for doing it either
but he's not going on trying to justify it.  

The more you argue it, the more I'm tempted to leave negative feedback.  I haven't done so thus
far because I thought the offense was minor and DT removal was good enough, but your attitude
makes me not trust your judgement.

[Quickseller]

Really? Do you seriously think the ~$12 in escrow fees (that I promptly refunded BTW) is sufficient cause for the multiple negative trust ratings that I have received?

Didn't you leave multiple negative trust ratings for tsp over less than $12 that his bot earned on coinchat?

No. He stole ~.5BTC. He refused to repay any of the stolen money. When confronted about the theft, he started intimidating the person who confronted him instead of countering any of the relevant facts. Both at the time of the uncovering of the original theft and now, the person who tspacepilot stole from says that he is a scammer.

On the other hand, I quickly repaid those who asked for their money back. The people who dealt with me said they did not feel that my business practices were any kind of a scam. Do you see the difference?

Karma is a bitch, eh?

Why exactly do you bring up karma? You aren't related to tsp in any way are you? I cannot see any other reason why someone would be sticking up for someone so strongly if it was otherwise.

TSP did receive a tip in advance from someone who knew with certainty that QS and panthers were the same person, and used his "tests" to "prove" we were the same person.....

No tip was needed. You were clearly the same person. I don't think you could have made it much more obvious.

He was specifically aware that Panthers52 and QS were the same person long before he opened this thread. It was far from obvious as of that point in time.

I see the difference. But it's ironic that you think it's OK for you to scam $12 from your victims when it's apparently not OK for tsp to accidentally earn a similar amount from coinchat with a bot. What makes you think the amount in question is 0.5 BTC?

I did not scam anyone any amount of money. I earned $12 in ways that some people claimed were questionable, and as a result, I refunded the $12 and promptly changed my practices. None of the parties who were refunded the money in question felt that there was any kind of scam and as a result your statement is libel. You should retract it immediately.

I believe that tspacepilot fraudulently withdrew ~.5 BTC because that was the amount that was claimed he withdrew, and he made no serious attempt to dispute this amount with the exception of a vague statement of "I dispute the amount" (or something along those lines) that was coupled with his claims that his actions outside of bitcointalk had not business being included in his bitcointalk marketplace trust profile (which ironically now includes a reputation loan that took place outside of bitcointalk).

You can hardly say that tspacepilot was bullied. I left a negative trust rating against him, and he opened up multiple threads attacking me personally, while making no attempt to attack and/or counter any facts that I had advised him that I had relied upon to make the conclusion that I believed he is a scammer. This continued to the point that he was told by a forum administrator that he was not allowed to continue to make additional threads about me because he has made too many. I even went to offering a bounty for someone to attempt to explain how he is innocent, however neither he nor anyone else even attempt to claim such bounty.

[Quickseller]

@TBZ - I am sorry if my actions are something that you do not approve of. I repeat this same statement to anyone else who does not approve of my actions. I am not going to repeat my arguments as to why I believe that escrowing for yourself is okay because I have echo'ed them many times across multiple threads and for the most part they have mostly been ignored. There have also been no logical and/or factual arguments that counter any of my arguments, but rather nothing but trolls, scammers and shit posters who in no way address my arguments.

At the end of the day, what I did was a result of my witnessing of similar activity by one of the most, if not the most trusted and respected member of the community doing what was essentially the exact same thing out in the open and without consequence. I had posted in the thread where this was happening out in the open multiple times, so it is difficult to say that I was unaware of the situation.

If there are no rules regarding how people can and cannot conduct their own business, then how can you argue that someone who is conducting business in similar ways to one of the most trusted people in the community in the open months after he had done so is in the wrong?

Escrowing for yourself isn't okay because by definition an escrow is a neutral third party. 
It's been logically explained to you by numerous people.  TC isn't right for doing it either
but he's not going on trying to justify it. 

The more you argue it, the more I'm tempted to leave negative feedback.  I haven't done so thus
far because I thought the offense was minor and DT removal was good enough, but your attitude
makes me not trust your judgement.

Okay, if you and/or the community thinks that self escrowing is not okay, then why was there no outcry when it happened months ago? New users should know that asking for a loan without collateral is not okay because a) there is a sticky warning advising not to request such loans and b) because it happens often and the public result is that the new users receive negative ratings. On the other hand, escrowing for ones self happens out in the open with zero public outcry (there is more then one person engaging in this practice, however I am not going to call anyone out on this for obvious reasons).

Furthermore, if the appropriate disclosures are made (as I have since done), then whose business is it to say that others are not able to engage in a consensual transaction, that in reality, is going to overwhelmingly result in all parties involved saying they are happy with the transaction. This is exactly what a free market is, the ability for market participants to be able to make informed decisions as to how and what they wish to trade.

[Quickseller]

  TC isn't right for doing it either
but he's not going on trying to justify it. 

The more you argue it, the more I'm tempted to leave negative feedback. 

So because I am defending my actions with ethical arguments that neither you nor anyone else is even attempting to counter (they are instead making vague statements about definitions, and saying "escrow"), I should receive negative trust? This is instead of changing my story every post I make about the situation. I hope you realize how backwards this sounds.

[Karpeles]

Dood, if you receive 1 more negative trust or someone remove 1 more positive trust of you you will get a "warning: trade with extreme caution"

Time to stop to dig yourself and maybe take a break from the forum

[markj113]

Escrowing your own trade is NOT ESCROW it just becomes a straight 1:1 transaction.

Why cant you grasp that simple concept quickseller, why should someone pay an "Escrow" fee for zero protection and zero impartiality!

So because I am defending my actions with ethical arguments that neither you nor anyone else is even attempting to counter (they are instead making vague statements about definitions, and saying "escrow"), I should receive negative trust? This is instead of changing my story every post I make about the situation. I hope you realize how backwards this sounds.

Take a step back and have a think, either you are wrong or everyone else in this 30 page thread is wrong.  There are no "ethical" arguments for using a sock puppet account to fake a 3rd party Escrow provider.