The 21 Bitcoin Computer

[brg444]

I swear it's like Balaji killed all you guys dog or something  

I hope for the sake of your relatives you don't have such a despicable attitude in real life   So much negativity, so much butthurt  

Are you affiliated with 21 Inc. somehow?

YES! And Blockstream also and every other companies you pitchfork branding hivemind like to attack for absolutely no valid reason other than apparent jealousy.

Nop, I'm with the anti-troll brigade. My mission: call people out on their bullshit and general disingenuity.

This whole fucking thread in a nutshell:

[brg444]

The possibilities are endless, 21inc is concerned with creating the tools to enable these use cases.

If the possibilities are endless, give me a list of the top 100 uses please.

They don't even know. Their own CEO said something to the effect that they want people to figure out on their own what to do with it.

I also find the pricing incredibly stupid. If they want to encourage people to invent and create an entire industry of they-don't-even-know-what using their chips, they should be selling it at cost or less. Why erect barriers to creative inventors with a high price point?

The only thing that really makes sense to me is what someone suggested earlier: There was a hard deadline to ship something (as a financing term or other contractual obligation) and this product is intended to satisfy that obligation, and not do much else.

Here, someone with a bit more imagination than you both cared enough to put it all in one nice article:

Here’s my take…

The idea is to embed the mining chip in smartphones, tablets, routers, everything. (Which is why Qualcomm & Cisco are involved.)

The real target cost for the 21 chip is pennies, not dollars, not hundreds of dollars, certainly not $400.

And then drop the chip, embed the design in SoC’s and we’re talking fractions of a penny.

The “computer” is not a Bitcoin miner, it’s a devkit.

It’s a devkit for future devices which would have native Bitcoin support (wallets & coin-generation) for identification (private keys), and micro-transactions.

Today, content on the internet is powered by advertising. Because we lack microtransactions. Google & Facebook & Twitter are advertising companies. 21 aims to change that. The internet runs on advertising. 21 aims to change that.

Now, link unforgeable bitcoin private keys with biometric identification.

You just killed:

Passwords…
sign-ups…
e-mail confirmation…
login screens
I bet this would remove a ton of hassle and frustration from your whole online experience. Multiply this utility gain by a billion internet users.

So, give every internet user a source of fresh, unbought, newly generated Bitcoins → enable e-commerce without logins and sign-ups.

Well, no more need to keep customer data on file. Hey! You just killed identity theft in e-commerce. (Corporate and individual victims of identity-theft are grateful.)

You can shop online without revealing your name, address, phone number, birth date, mothers maiden name etc. etc. etc …to any and every new retailer.

It would be like buying a newspaper, in cash, no questions asked.

Just give them the money, get the good, and you’re done.

No questions. No secret questions. No maiden names.

This is generally impossible on the internet today,

(What is wrong with the world? We need to fix this!)

Why does every online retailer need all your personal data to sell you a digital good?

Because of credit cards & identity theft. And also because of advertising.

In this new simpler internet, they don’t need your personal data,

…so they shouldn’t have your personal data.

This points the way to a simpler and just plain better internet experience.

It points the way to an internet without friction between: “I want this digital good” and “I’m enjoying this digital good.” Games, books, streams, video, journalism. Any sort of digital content.

“Oh, but this is possible today.” Maybe it is, but only at a couple of select giant retailers like Amazon, using patented “technology”, and they’ve already made you go through that painful sign-up process and they have all your data on file.

With Bitcoin, we can make all online commerce like one-click shopping at Amazon.

Better for content-producers.

Better for internet users.

Visit a merchant. “Click to read this article.” Done.

This will reduces the friction between merchants and consumers to unnoticable levels. Boom! Superconductivity for e-commerce.

The 21 Inc. computer is not a mining device, it’s the Altair 8800 of a new Bitcoin powered internet.

The Altair 8800 was pretty much the shittiest computer.

But it launched that whole personal computer revolution.

That whole Bitcoin powered internet we talked about. It doesn’t exist yet.

It’s a possible future. And we have to build it.

If it works, it will remove a lot of dysfunctions and ineffieciencies and friction.

Why can’t you preload the 21 device? Because you don’t kill identity-theft if you bought the micro-bitcoins from someone else, instead of generating them yourself.

In the post-password future, you stop being your password and email address.

Instead, you become your private keys.

https://elux.svbtle.com/the-21-inc-computer-is-the-new-altair-8800

[grml1234]

Isn't the point of bitcoin (micro or whole) anonymity? Now we need a hardware dongle to make it more anonymous?

[smooth]

The Altair 8800 was pretty much the shittiest computer.

The Altair analogy doesn't work at all.

That was created by a scrappy little company (<20 employees) on basically no budget and even then

"The Altair 8800 computer was a break-even sale for MITS"

It sold like hotcakes (maybe because at break-even it was a damn good value to hobbyists compared to DYI at the time, unlike 21 trying to sell $100 worth of DYI hardware for $400) forcing the company to massively expand just to deliver the orders. We'll see if that happens here. You know my guess (it won't). I doubt you are going to guess otherwise, but go ahead and make a prediction if you like.

If you read the actual history there is literally no similarity at all: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altair_8800

[P-Funk]

Isn't the point of bitcoin (micro or whole) anonymity? Now we need a hardware dongle to make it more anonymous?

Anonymity is a useful trait but it's not the point of bitcoin, nor is bitcoin anonymous.

[brg444]

The Altair 8800 was pretty much the shittiest computer.

The Altair analogy doesn't work at all.

That was created by a scrappy little company (<20 employees) on basically no budget and even then

"The Altair 8800 computer was a break-even sale for MITS"

It sold like hotcakes (maybe because at break-even it was a damn good value to hobbyists compared to DYI at the time, unlike 21 trying to sell $100 worth of DYI hardware for $400) forcing the company to massively expand just to deliver the orders. We'll see if that happens here. You know my guess (it won't). I doubt you are going to guess otherwise, but go ahead and make a prediction if you like.

If you read the actual history there is literally no similarity at all: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altair_8800

Cool, but I don't care.

And actually it's more like 275$ of DYI hardware. So a 125$ markup for custom design, full software stack and micropayment server.

Did you also happen to miss this part?

The real target cost for the 21 chip is pennies, not dollars, not hundreds of dollars, certainly not $400.

Drop the chip, embed the design in SoC’s and we’re talking fractions of a penny.

Nice of you not to address any of the points or use cases you so casually pretended didn't exist earlier.

[smooth]

Drop the chip, embed the design in SoC’s and we’re talking fractions of a penny.

Good, when they get there I might be interested.

For now, how about drop the chip (and $400 clunker) and let people download an SDK instead.

The alternative to an Altair 8080 was to design and build you own computer at great difficulty without a kit, or not have a computer at all.

The alternative to this $400 clunker is to build essentially the same thing (or better) using readily available parts in an hour or two of setup time, for less money.

[brg444]

Drop the chip, embed the design in SoC’s and we’re talking fractions of a penny.

Good, when they get there I might be interested.

For now, how about drop the chip (and $400 clunker) and let people download an SDK instead.

The alternative to an Altair 8080 was to design and build you own computer at great difficulty without a kit, or not have a computer at all.

The alternative to this $400 clunker is to build essentially the same thing (or better) using readily available parts in an hour or two of setup time, for less money.

The goal of the whole thing is to bootstrap the payment flow with easy access to satoshis so developers who don't want to bother with buying bitcoins can tinker with the thing.

[maokoto]

For the miners or people with mining experience out there...

How much Bitcoin (a rough estimate) would a person be able to mine daily by using this?

[monsanto]

You have an interesting account tagline RE: sullen ground. Reminds me of a Bit Gold proponent.   

Nice catch 

[Biodom]

For the miners or people with mining experience out there...

How much Bitcoin (a rough estimate) would a person be able to mine daily by using this?

you earn ~0.00055-0.0011 BTC/day or 12-24c/day ($7/mo max) with only 4c/day expense if you are at $0.1/kwh-pretty standard in US.
However, this is NOT a computer to mine, this is a computer to program stuff and GET PAID in bitcoin-maybe $hundreds or more/day.
How exactly-your imagination is the limit.

[favdesu]

For the miners or people with mining experience out there...

How much Bitcoin (a rough estimate) would a person be able to mine daily by using this?

you earn ~0.00055-0.0011 BTC/day or 12-24c/day ($7/mo max) with only 4c/day expense if you are at $0.1/kwh-pretty standard in US.
However, this is NOT a computer to mine, this is a computer to program stuff and GET PAID in bitcoin-maybe $hundreds or more/day.
How exactly-your imagination is the limit.

well, I can just buy a RPi2 and run a openbazaar node/shop. very same setup just without the mining for around $60

[tennozer]

For the miners or people with mining experience out there...

How much Bitcoin (a rough estimate) would a person be able to mine daily by using this?

you earn ~0.00055-0.0011 BTC/day or 12-24c/day ($7/mo max) with only 4c/day expense if you are at $0.1/kwh-pretty standard in US.
However, this is NOT a computer to mine, this is a computer to program stuff and GET PAID in bitcoin-maybe $hundreds or more/day.
How exactly-your imagination is the limit.

These amaounts are really low with 400 dollars investment and also these btc computer can ship 16th November. Why will people buy this btc computer? I do not understand anything about it. I miss something.

[Zarathustra]

For the miners or people with mining experience out there...

How much Bitcoin (a rough estimate) would a person be able to mine daily by using this?

you earn ~0.00055-0.0011 BTC/day or 12-24c/day ($7/mo max) with only 4c/day expense if you are at $0.1/kwh-pretty standard in US.
However, this is NOT a computer to mine, this is a computer to program stuff and GET PAID in bitcoin-maybe $hundreds or more/day.
How exactly-your imagination is the limit.

These amaounts are really low with 400 dollars investment and also these btc computer can ship 16th November. Why will people buy this btc computer? I do not understand anything about it. I miss something.

Because "This is amazing   "

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1186115.msg12485714#msg12485714

[jcool]

Hi,

As a long time Bitcoin Miner.  I would like to clarify the Mining portion of this thing.  At 120 GHS you will not be mining Bitcoins per se.  You will be mining Satoshi's.  Big, big difference.

To recieve even .1 Bitcoin per day takes about 15 THS at current Difficulty.

[johnyj]

For the miners or people with mining experience out there...

How much Bitcoin (a rough estimate) would a person be able to mine daily by using this?

you earn ~0.00055-0.0011 BTC/day or 12-24c/day ($7/mo max) with only 4c/day expense if you are at $0.1/kwh-pretty standard in US.
However, this is NOT a computer to mine, this is a computer to program stuff and GET PAID in bitcoin-maybe $hundreds or more/day.
How exactly-your imagination is the limit.

That's it! If you program based on instructions sent from 21 Inc, you will receive 1 bitcoin per 1000 lines of codes, directly paid into your wallet on this little thing    And their huge R&D project now becomes a distributed programmers' network   But to pay $400 to join this freelance network ...

[LiteCoinGuy]

https://de.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3m0zp5/the_8_most_informative_comments_about_21incs/

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3lv6zj/ama_request_ceo_of_21inc_balaji_srinivasan/cv9zq9q

[johnyj]

https://de.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3m0zp5/the_8_most_informative_comments_about_21incs/

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3lv6zj/ama_request_ceo_of_21inc_balaji_srinivasan/cv9zq9q

That's a good point: Machines convert electricity into bitcoins and pay for services

[21Bitcoinpower]

https://de.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3m0zp5/the_8_most_informative_comments_about_21incs/

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3lv6zj/ama_request_ceo_of_21inc_balaji_srinivasan/cv9zq9q

That's a good point: Machines convert electricity into bitcoins and pay for services

Yes.
Soon your fridge will mine Bitcoins and order free food for you.

[favdesu]

https://de.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3m0zp5/the_8_most_informative_comments_about_21incs/

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3lv6zj/ama_request_ceo_of_21inc_balaji_srinivasan/cv9zq9q

That's a good point: Machines convert electricity into bitcoins and pay for services

Yes.
Soon your fridge will mine Bitcoins and order free food for you.

implying electricity comes for free, right? the internet of things and smarthome technology is really cool IMO, but this is not the bitcoin of things.